Junior Member
I have been taking 250iu of HCG for the last 12 days. So far I have noticed....well nothing!
Should I consider bumping this up to 325iu or even 500iu ED to see if this makes a difference?
I have blood tests tomorrow, so I was thinking of waiting til then. i guess this would prove I am Primary if my levels dont change, which judging by the results I am guessing will still be low.
Any thoughts on the dose increase?
HRT Specialist ~ Knowledgeable Member
is this prescribed by a doctor and based on blood work?
Banned
I'd be curious what your baseline labs were going into it, particularly LH, FSH, Total Serum on the Test, Free Test, etc.
Member
Wait on bloodwork to make a change. Yea...if the daily HCG doesn't increase your levels some, you may well be primary, which makes you a candidate for TRT.
Junior Member
Yes it is prescribed. My levels came back somewhat low. I posted before but my lh was right in the middel but my free, bioavailable, and free test were all in the lower 1/4. My dht was actually out of range low. E2 was low range but not out of range.Low libido etc. Were my symptoms. Anyone think there is any value in upping the dose or just wait until blood results come back. Seems like 250 ed shiud have had some effect by now on libido.
HRT
12 days is not near enough time to see any changes. Mono hCG therapies are hit and miss...and mostly the later. Don't make any changes till you see blood work. I'd wait 6 weeks minimum on just hCG.
Low DHT explains low libido. If you're looking into increase Test naturally through hCG it can happen but nothing like exogenous Testosterone can do.
Remember, you're way up the casade pathway with hCG:
hCG --> Cholesterol --> Pregnenolone --> Hydroxypregnenolone --> DHEA --> Androstenedione --> Testosterone --> DHT & E2
So in other words, you got a way to go. DHT cream from your Doc would have the most immediate impact on DHT levels and libido. DHT is all things male believe it or not...very powerful hormone and needs to be in the optimal range.
BTW, this is why it's important to consider Pregnenolone and DHEA supplements on a TRT protocol. Everything upstream of Testosterone here is shut down on a TRT protocol (or pretty damn close to shut down) and why hCG is so important as well to back fill these critical hormones.
Have patience or get on a TRT protocol now and speed things up my friend.
Last edited by steroid.com 1; 10-07-2011 at 05:36 PM.
Junior Member
Thanks for the explanation. I think i will take your advice and give it more time. I have bloodwork whenever i can fit it in my schedule then doc appt nov 1st. I am taking dhea, but i didnt even know pregnenolone was an otc supp.. prolly gonna go the trt route but figured i'd try the hcg route first. Its a little daunting when they tell you its going to be for the rest of your life. thanks again.
HRT
DHEA and Pregnenolone in the US are OTC (for now, that could change). Trans-dermal application is best and can be bought online in 15 mg doses. Keep an eye on any high E2 symptoms as well. Adding all of this can increase E2 and you don't want that.
Good to see you taking a more patient approach. This takes time to figure out the correct protocol then dialing it in but you will get there.
And yes, it's for life...and a great one at that
Associate Member
My Doc has me on HCG only as well. Im taking 500iu 3X week. I am 5 weeks in. I got bloodwork back and numbers went from 387 to 813. I am secondary but only problem is i seill feel exactly the same as i did 5 weeks, 6 months and a year ago. No change in mood sex drive or overall since of well being. I sure hope its different for you. I am going to give this another 2 weeks and keep taking this supplement that the doc recommended and if i dont feel different im going to bring some papers in and tell him i want to go another route.
HRT Specialist ~ Knowledgeable Member
how about free test level? total could be 2000 but if you free T is low it won't do you any good!Originally Posted by Mr Tick
HRT
Excellent point bass. Free T and/or Bio Available are most important now.
As for how you feel; read the stickie at the top of the forum on how long things take to change under a protocol...change doesn't happen overnight.
Associate Member
When I asked him about running the free numbers he pulls out a graph and takes my total T and sbgh and said he can get the free from that chart.
Associate Member
he can get an "idea", but to tell you he can really know based on a chart is total BS. everybody is different, and you could be wayyy different than a chart
HRT
Needs Albumin as well. There are calculators online that are significantly more accurate.
New Member
Have been on HCG mono for about 3 weeks at 1250 iu 3xweekly and feel great so far. I was on test 100mgs weekly and was doing well but would like to have another child so switched over soley to HCG. I honestly feel better than when I was on TRT. I am on for another reason but thought I would share my experience so far with HCG mono
Associate Member
Have you tried say 250iu e3d? Why 1250 just a random ass number? Most people dont need that high as in you can only make the testies do so much unless you like skyhigh E2.
New Member
I did 250iu e3d for about 3 months and never got my test levels back to normal. That is when my ENDO switched me to TRT and felt great but then married and wanted to have child. My Endo actually wanted me to do 2000iu's 3x weekly but I thought I would try 1250 and see how I felt. I might drop it some more just to see if I can keep test levels up with lower dose.
Associate Member
dude, plenty of gusy get their ol ladies preggers on TRT. You don't need to be on hcg only, unless I guess if you had fertility issues before going on TRT
Junior Member
Ok so it just took a while to notice the effects, but i can definitely now notice and increase in libido and feeling of well-being. Thank god my libido is back! (And man is it back!)
HRT
Great and fairly typical of what we'd expect!
You should see other benefits as well. Let us know if you see any weight loss as well.
Keep us updated in this tread Jred especailly next round of BW; interested to see lift in Test, Free/Bio Available, E2, SHBG, Albumin...
Happy for you man
Junior Member
Ok so here's my updated lab work after being on 250iu's of HCG for about 3 weeks.
Total Test - 766 <250-1100> Before HCG - 480
Free T - 123.2 <46-224>
Bioavailable 248 <110-575>
SHBG 30 <10-50>
Albumin 4.4 <3.6-5.1>
While it did increase libido, after about the 2nd week I started getting some puffiness in my nips and getting real irritable/agitated. Fatigue was bad too. I could hardly keep my eyes open during the day. All I wanted to do was sleep. Mood swings were wild, and I can correlate them directly to about 4-10 hours after the injection and lasting about 24-36 hours. I have stopped for 3 days and then taken a single injection and it's like clockwork. I did this about 4 times, just to experiment.
Not sure if it's high estrogen, or something else, but it defintely isnt for me.
Anyone else have this experience with HCG?
I once ran 250mg of enanthate for 6 weeks and it did the same thing at weeks 3-6. No clue what it could be. I guess my body has an aversion to have too high of a Test level! Well....%&^&.
Just wanted to put some finality to my thread. BTW I didnt notice any significant weight gain or loss. Some water retention maybe, but not much. I lift heavy 4x per week, and no noticeable strength increases either.
HRT Specialist ~ Knowledgeable Member
thanks for the update! I'd say your e2 is high based on your symptoms. it seems to work nice on your test levels. if i were you I'd continue with hCG and maybe add AI to control e2. i am surprised he didn't check for E2!
Junior Member
Yeah I mentioned it to the doc and she was curious too, so she is going to check it next time, but that is about 4 weeks away.
HRT Specialist ~ Knowledgeable Member
thats too long bro! demand it to be done immediately, your symptoms calls for it.
Member
^^Yes
If your getting puffy nips then start taking an AI asap! The AI may raise your test levels slightly from what ive read, it seemed like the therapy was working.
Knowledgeable Member
Increased LH also increases progesterone levels, which contributes to gyno. You should get E2 and progesterone checked. Lowering E2 will most like get rid of the puffy nipples. If not and you find you have to drive E2 too low to reduce the puffiness, then you can look to directly reducing progesterone.
Knowledgeable Member
A effects b, and c and d which all effect a b c and d, just to be clear, lol.
Member
What?
Knowledgeable Member- Recognized Member Winner - $100
Definitely get the E2 checked ASAP easy test and easy fix hate it when the Doc's drag their feet would be different if they felt like crap.
Knowledgeable Member
Nice Avi.
Everything we take effects everything we take. t, hcg, an ai, - all effect levels of t, free t, e2 and so on ....
Junior Member
Well some more finality to this thread.. Doc wanted me to bump up to 325iu ED (even after i told her I was getting the puffiness/soreness), so I did, but only for the 3 weeks leading up to my bloodwork. The results speak for themselves. Estradiol was elevated. T, DHT, etc all on the high-side of norm..
I bought some liquidex from Lion just in case, but I think she is going to prescribe some today too. I am dropping down to 125iu ED now as well. All of my numbers were on the high end which I am happy about, but boy what theyy say about e2 and HCG is very true. My e2 numbers were low originally and they sky rocketed on HCG.
Here is my labwork for those interested:
Hormone
Estradiol1
Male: 7.6-43.0
63.1 10:00AM
Testosterone (free)1
2.5 10:00AM 0.76 - 2.97
Testosterone (bioavailable)1
57.8 10:00AM 17.8 - 69.5
Testosterone (total)1
Male: 193.0 - 836.0
802.4 10:00AM
Sex Hormone Binding Globulin1
Male: 10.0 - 80.0 29.2 10:00AM
Dihydrotestosterone5
Male >19Y: 106.0 - 719.0
531.0 10:00AM
Prostate Specific Antigen (PSA) Total1
0.94 10:00AM Positive: >4.0
DHEA-S1
305.0 10:00AM 10.0 - 500.0
Free T3 (fT3)1
3.24 Normal 10:00AM 2.50 - 4.30
Reverse T3 (rT3)5
268.0 Normal 10:00AM 90.0 - 350.0
Free T4 (fT4)1
1.37 Normal 10:00AM 0.90 - 1.70
TSH1
0.62 Normal 10:00AM 0.27 - 4.20
Thyroid Peroxidase (TPO) IgG5
16.8 10:00AM 0.0 - 35.0
HRT Specialist ~ Knowledgeable Member
good stuff! just get your E2 in check and your good to go! thanks for the update.
HRT
Thyroid looks great.
Note, hCG can increase intratesticular E2 and an AI can be largely ineffective.
Dropping to 125 ED is much better IMO.
Last edited by steroid.com 1; 01-25-2012 at 05:54 PM.
Junior Member
Btw just wanted to add that my weights are all way up on everything after about 4 months of hcg. I have been getting the 'dude, you hittin some juice?' comments quite a bit the last 4 weeks. Test is test no matter where it comes from. My shoulder no longer hurts and i have been going crazy in the gym.
I know there is some debate as to if you will see any results in the gym, and as you can tell, for me, very much so.
Went from about 185 to 200 during this time.
Just adding some unscientific, unsubstantiated evidence to this thing we call forum.steroid.com!
Senior Member
What dose are you on now? Are you taking an AI with it?
Seems like it is working good for you.
Did the fatigue go away? That was a werid side effect?
Junior Member
brohim,
i just switched up and decided to roll with 250iu eod along with .5mg arimidex eod as well.
The fatigue actually seems to be common with high E. (from what I read anyway) I just dealt with being ready to fall asleep at all times during the day. The fatigue did get better with less dose or skipping a dose. I think 250-325iu I was taking daily was just too much.
Senior Member
Ah ok so the high e2 caused it. Yeah you have to be careful at higher doses it will armotize. Another guy that does HCG mono found that 600iu twice a week was the sweet spot where he didin't have to use any AI.
Junior Member
Some more data to add to the story....So i kept at the dose of 250iu eod, and .5 arimidex until Feb 25th. I quit cold turkey and waited until March 27th to get my LH and T levels checked again.
Just got my results today and they are: (Blood drawn 10AM on empty stomach)
(QUEST LABS)
LH 2.2 <1.5-9.3 mIU/ML>
Total Testosterone 433 <250-1100 ng/dL>
Free Testosterone 58 <35-155 pg/mL>
Only sides I noticed coming off of it were the following:
-My voice deepened while on HCG, and then returned back to normal after quitting.
-Slow but steady return to normal libido.
-Some puffiness dissipated, but that could have been due to both cessation of Creatine cycle, and lower E2.
As you can see my LH and Test levels returned to baseline in only ~30 days, could have been sooner, but I wanted to wait 30 days.
So I guess in this limited case it does show that it doesnt take very much time to recover from an HCG only cycle.
Almost forgot to add my final point of...It appears that HCG does temporarily raise Test levels, only to return to the pre-HCG monotherapy levels when stopped....at least in my case anyway...hopefully this thread is beneficial to others in the future.
Last edited by Jredwine; 04-06-2012 at 08:29 PM.
Banned
im starting to doubt my dose will be enough. im on 350 iu 3x per week....is that enough for monotherapy or would 400 iu be better?
Banned
bump lol
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