HCG Only

[fjr02]

Guys,

What are your opinions on HCG only as a mechanism to increase T levels?

Here's the situation - briefly.

One month ago, at my annual physical with my anti-TRT Dr, my BW resulted in a T level of (291/49). Blood taken at 10AM after a fast.

Based on that I went to see a Dr that believes in TRT - that was 2 weeks ago. During that visit I gave more blood at 3:30pm w/o a fast.
This Dr most likely used a different lab. At that visit he gave me a 300mg cyp injection.
Two weeks after that visit (late last week), I returned to the pro TRT Doc to go over the BW. This one yielded a Total/Free=391/40. SHBG=40, e2=17.

He told me that I was kind of on the line, He said I could go HCG only or do both. We agreed on both and do BW 4 weeks from today. At that visit (last week), I got another 300mg of cyp.
Today I began the normal program. 60mg Cyp twice per week, 250IU HCG 3 times per week.

Yesterday I noticed a lump and sensitivity near my nipples. I actually have a lump in the lower outer pec.
I had gyno surgery in 1994. I used to train with gear in the 80's.

Could this chest issue have resulted from the two spikes of e2 conversion? Now that I am on normal levels will this go away? I am VERY surprised I already have this feeling. Despite my low e2, I must have a very high conversion rate when I experience T boosts.

Back to the subject title. I am going to stick with this protocol for 1 month and go back for BW.
(1) If my T levels come back high, what do you think of an HCG only treatment?
(2) Does an HCG only treatment affect e2?
(3) Long term sides of HCG only vs. HCG & TRT? Is one "better"

Thanks guys!

[Vettester]

fjr02, don't take this wrong, as you are one of the new members that I am following real closely; partially due to your receptiveness with advise from members, and your thoroughness with how you articulate yourself. However, you have several threads going here that are basically similar, or sub-related to the subject of getting your newly adopted TRT program on track.

Again, we encourage and promote the participation in this forum, and you are a promising new member. However, keeping things managed on one thread will allow members to refer to other pertinent posts, like BW and other relevant posts, which in turn will provide you more informative responses, with less chance of you having to repeat yourself.

I made a post last night in one of your other threads about the effectiveness of HCG and how it impacted my regiment. I've got to get running here for a bit, but I can post some other thoughts on that thread later.

[steroid.com 1]

Back to the subject title. I am going to stick with this protocol for 1 month and go back for BW.
Wait 6 weeks for next round of BW...at least.

(1) If my T levels come back high, what do you think of an HCG only treatment?
I like your current protocol and it's about right for an initial start-up. Wait for BW but know that hCG only mono therapies are largely ineffective.

(2) Does an HCG only treatment affect e2?
It can but generally in higher dosage amounts not like your protocol...unless you are super sensitive...but that's a rare occurrence.

(3) Long term sides of HCG only vs. HCG & TRT ? Is one "better"
Not sure what you mean by "sides". If both are administered correctly to bring you to upper normal levels there should be no neg sides.

Your nipple issue could very well be associated with the initial test injections. Are you on an AI? If not, get it tested on round of BW.

[HRTstudent]

HCG only, as I've read from a few experts, doesn't not always lead to increased subjective well-being despite its ability to raise testosterone to normal levels. We do not know why this is.

Is it worth testing? That's up to you to decide for yourself, but it's certainly not a "bad" idea as far as I am concerned.

[GFA]

Articles here http://www.allthingsmale.com/publications.html

Are you primary or secondary?

If you primary, HCG mono will not work for you.

[fjr02]

Redundant Posts: Sorry about that guys - won't happen again.

Near term decision: I am going to stick with my current two product protocol until the BW (in 4 weeks), then take it from there.

Breast tenderness: Yes definitely I believe it was from the two 300mg injections. In retrospect, I wish I could have started just with the normal levels. I have come to the realization, that my doc is not afraid to throw around (prescribe) dosages that many consider to be on the upper end for TRT. I am going to call the doc tomorrow morning and let them know my early symptoms. Man, I must really be e2 sensitive.

Choice of syringe sizes: Yes you were right - a 25g 1" with 0.3cc feels better in the thigh than a 22g 1.5" with 1.5cc. Go figure.

I'm looking forward to seeing this all feels three weeks from now: clearness of thought, concentration, mood, gym, etc.

Thanks for the help and advice.

[HRTstudent]

Don't be afraid to find a doc who actually does a lot of male HRT.

Also, 300mg is a high dose and would put probably 99% of the population into the supraphysiologic range.... so you might not be "really" e2 sensitive like you say. But you certainly aren't "insensitive" to its effects like some people seem to be.

Personally, I wasted too much time with a doc who didn't know what they were doing. It sucks. Can't get that time back.

[fjr02]

Well this Doc, is definitely pro - TRT.
Based on what I read here, I think he's a lot more informed than many, but perhaps only to the extent that he needs to be (in his mind).

He suggested 2 cyp's per week, 3 HCG's per week. He said he'd do AI if I needed it.
Some Doc's say one every 2-3 weeks (extreme example).
He apparently likes to start strong on dosage, then perhaps back off.
I personally have chosen to start at a reasonable number - oh well.
I still have not decided to tell him that I have been taking 1/2 of what he told me to at the end of the month - most likely I won't rock the boat.

He does & reads the BW. Based on comments he's made - he is just concerned with how I "feel" than what the BW shows or perhaps how many cc's are loaded in the syringe.
I guess that's a good thing IF the patient knows what's going on to a certain extent to know when to say "enough's enough".

I really don't know how many guys are "Pro-TRT" in this area. I know that I discussed it with my regular doc a few years ago. My comments about symptoms I had were simply dismissed.

[HRTstudent]

My doc was ok giving me testosterone, but he didn't know shit! LOL

So, if you just want a doctor to prescribe you meds, and then you go off and do your own thing, well, I feel like you're missing out on a better doctor who will actually work with you... and not just for you.

[DaRoq]

Well this Doc, is definitely pro - TRT.
Based on what I read here, I think he's a lot more informed than many, but perhaps only to the extent that he needs to be (in his mind).

He suggested 2 cyp's per week, 3 HCG's per week. He said he'd do AI if I needed it.
Some Doc's say one every 2-3 weeks (extreme example).
He apparently likes to start strong on dosage, then perhaps back off.
I personally have chosen to start at a reasonable number - oh well.
I still have not decided to tell him that I have been taking 1/2 of what he told me to at the end of the month - most likely I won't rock the boat.

He does & reads the BW. Based on comments he's made - he is just concerned with how I "feel" than what the BW shows or perhaps how many cc's are loaded in the syringe.
I guess that's a good thing IF the patient knows what's going on to a certain extent to know when to say "enough's enough".

I really don't know how many guys are "Pro-TRT" in this area. I know that I discussed it with my regular doc a few years ago. My comments about symptoms I had were simply dismissed.

I'd guess that most doctors familiar with TRT know that Test levels are largely dose-dependent, so your bloodwork will probably be suspicious. This study found that a dose such as the one prescribed would yield nadir testosterone concentrations of 1,345 ± 139 (ng/dl). It'll be interesting to see how this TRT Dr. reacts. Will he prescribe more, or think something else is wrong?

[JD250]

Those 2 doses were big and probably caused the nipple problem, get steady on the 2-60mg shots a week and ride it out till BW time. It takes time to get levels right and it take more time for your body to adjust and change accordingly. Sounds like you got a decent doc, work with him and communicate what you know about TRT and you'll be farther ahead than many of us here. I haven't seen your other threads but it sounds like you're on the right track man, good luck to ya!!

[61er]

I realize this is an old thread, but I'm hoping for some additional quick feedback from anyone on "HCG only" therapy.

On tuesday I had an appointment with my endo for Testopel implants. This would have been my fourth round with pellets. (Round three was problematic.) He said some of his patients were getting good results with HCG only, so we agreed to hold off while I did some research. Dosage would be 500 units twice a week.

Any additional feedback on this treatment? I'd like to begin tomorrow!

[chickenstirfry]

From what I have heard bro, hCG monotherapy oftentimes does not produce the subjective sense of 'wellbeing' as a combo of hCG + exogenous Test, even if both treatments yield the same final serum T level. But I would say give it a go and see how you feel. And report back!

[ppwc1985]

I started on just hCG Two weeks ago Saturday will be the end of two weeks And to be honest I feel worse than before I started. It seems like I have even Less energy than before

[adam1973]

Hcg as a standalone trt treatment did not work for me. My testosterone levels (total & free) actually fell below the normal range. Whereas before starting hcg my total & free testosterone levels were in the low normal range.

[61er]

Thanks for the feedback. Did second injection this morning. Will report back on effectiveness in coming weeks. Bloodwork scheduled for early August.

[rt12008]

Ditto to Adam. My levels fell after hcg only. It wasn't fun.