New Gyno On CYCLE Help **

[SexiSpartan]

Hi Guys,

any help would be greatly appreciated. im on week 5 of a TDT-250 cycle (100mg Test Prop, 75mg Tren Ace, 75mg Masteron) i do 1.5ml EOD along with 50mg proviron and 100mg Anavar ED. Im at 7% bodyfat and 85kg and getting into some great shape. During week 3 i added an extra 100mg prop to my TDT shot on mon, wed, and noticed a slight tingle on fri in right nipple area (31st oct). i keep nolvadex on stand by and 20/40mg usually kills any gyno flare up after a couple days in past. So on the Sat (1st Nov) i decided to start nolvadex at 40mg ED to try and zap it straight away, i kept this dose for 5 days and was surprised that the small gyno lump was still there, (its abt the size of a pea, adjacent to right nipple, not noticeable but i can feel it) i then decided to add Adex at 1mg ed in a panic i must admit, so i did 40mg nolvadex and 1mg adex for a further 5 days, and a tiny improvement. So sun (9th) i decided to go into the emergency drawer and crack out the letrozol, i'm running that on its own at 2.5mgs ed in the hope that will nuke it. Its pretty new/fresh gyno, about ten days old, so still soft, how long should letro take to have effect ? never used it before, i know sides are very harsh but wanna zap this tiny gyno in the bud asap.

Also i was contemplating whether i was too hesitant and maybe should have ran nolvadex at 60/80mgs a day for a week ? as in the past nolvadex has always zapped similar gyno after a few days ? should i also add Nolvadex to Letro ? at 20/40mg ed ? ive read so many conflicting reports about Nolvadex affecting the efficacy of Letro etc..

My major concern is waiting another 2 weeks for letro to start working and hoping it works for me, that would be a total time of 4/5 weeks since first symptoms, i dont want to run the risk of it getting harder or fibrous.

So in a recap.. Ive noticed gyno symptoms on 1st nov, and hit it with 40mg Nolva every day, added in some adex at 1mg for 5 days and on day 10 decided to switch to letro at 2.5mg ED.

any advice comments would be greatly appreciated.

[< <Samson> >]

My horrid gyno treatment; Ramp the Letro until I feel like shit, alongside Ralox at 120mg a day then taper down slowly to 30mg per day.

Worked wonders so far - damn do I hate gyno

GL

[SexiSpartan]

Haven't got any Ralox to hand, would Nolva do ? also been doing some research last couple days online and came accross this regarding Nolva and AI's...

some forums that date back to 2004-2007 say that nolvadex effects the efficacy of adex and letro and should not be stacked with either, wonder if this has been debunked ? thinking about it logically they both have life of approx 5-7 days and both work in different ways ?

"Only bummer with the nolva is this, just 20mg of nolva can lower blood plasma levels of letro by 38%, and best guess is 28% for adex" .........is what i read on a google link to another forum.

also this was on iS.t.er.r.o.i.d.s "we can’t use Letrozole or Arimidex, as the Nolvadex will actually greatly decrease the blood plasma levels of them (28)!"

Another report i found by the author of Anabolic Steroids, Anthony Roberts....

"I’ve always been in favor of using Nolvadex during PCT, along with an aromatase inhibitor, because reducing estrogen levels has been positively correlated with an increase in testosterone (7) so in my mind, it’s be beneficial to increasetestosterone by as many mechanisms as possible while trying to recover your endogenous testosterone levels after a cycle. SO which aromatase inhibitor do we use? letro or A-dex? Well, why don’t we just keep using whichever one we used during the cycle, and add in some Nolvadex? Unfortunately, Nolvadex will significantly reduce the blood plasma levels of both Letrozole as well as Arimidex (8). So if we choose to use one of them with our Nolvadex on PCT, we’re throwing away a bit of money as the Nolvadex will be reducing their effectiveness"

One last one lol, a clinical study .. "Preclinical studies using the intratumoral aromatase model for postmenopausal breast cancer"

"the combination of letrozole or anastrozole and tamoxifen was no more effective than either aromatase inhibitor alone. The agonistic effect of tamoxifen on the uterus was observed when it was given alone and when combined with the aromatase inhibitors. Furthermore, letrozole had the most potent antitumor activity when compared to other aromataseinhibitors and antiestrogens. No additional benefit was observed by combining these agents withtamoxifen over treatment with aromatase inhibitors alone"

Some info maybe you guys haven't seen, maybe i shouldn't use nolva with letro after all.... :S

P.s.. Im an academic student, use to research lol, maybe some extra info for you guys on this forum for future.

[< <Samson> >]

Not reading all of that

But, yes - Nolvadex counteracts Letrozole

Nolvadex never helped me with jack shit, I have a few hundred pills on hand that I will most likely never use. I got them just for that reason "throw in some Nolvadex, if you see gyno".


I also forgot - I added .125mg of Prami on the last gyno attack.

I just woke up with a gyno flare up one morning & have been fighting it over a month. Finally it's damn near gone - did I mention I hate gyno

[jimmyinkedup]

I have read that the reduction in blood levels with nolva/ letro and adex is not clinically significant and does not effect efficacy at all. Some of the excerpts you quoted do not apply to you or your situation at all. Unfortunately we often find data on females which does not correlate over to males.
My gyno advice is this. When it show immediately get blood work. Start a serm, preferably ralox but if not tamox is totally acceptable. When blood results come in use an ai to manage e2 levels and your serm to treat your gyno. Run your serm long term through your pct and post cycle. Stop your ai before the start of pct. A serm is you answer to gyno treatment, not crushing e2 levels with letro. I dint personally find that to be the prudent approach.

[< <Samson> >]

A serm is you answer to gyno treatment, not crushing e2 levels with letro.

But, wouldn't bottomed out estro levels stop gyno from getting bigger? From what I understand, without the presence of estro, gyno can't grow - not get reversed, but stop from growing

[jimmyinkedup]

But, wouldn't bottomed out estro levels stop gyno from getting bigger? From what I understand, without the presence of estro, gyno can't grow - not get reversed, but stop from growing

What would be more effective than blocking e2 from acting on the e receptor site in breast tissue? Nothing. Thats what serms do and especially effective, like totally, is raloxifene with tamox close behind. Why unnecessarily crush e2 levels systemically and go through all that mess and unhealthy effects when it is totally unnecessary to do so? Not prudent in my opinion. Other may feel differently and thats ok but I do not see the logic.

[< <Samson> >]

But, do you think the Ralox or Nolva is fast acting enough? When you ramp the Letro that shit kill your e2 within days if that.


Of course you will feel like udder crap in return


This time around when I got a gyno flare up, I was already on 30mg a day of Ralox. I ramped my Ai for a few days along with jumping the Ralox dose to 120mg a day. Few days later, it just got worse. I jumped on letro for a little over a week(felt like total trash) but the gyno started to back off.

Ralox seems to reverse the gyno quite noticeably, but not immediately at all.


I can't recommend letro, it's horrid when you're estro levels hit rock bottom. But, bitch tits to me is nothing to play with. . . Shitty side, that's for sure.

[SexiSpartan]

Thanks for the reply guys, well im on day 6 of Letro at 2.5mg ED, to be honest i would have thought it would have had some kind of effect by now, i feel fine and gyno lump is still there! shall i just jump on 80mg of nolvadex too ED for a week then 60/40/20 and stay on letro for another week at 1.25 ED then just stick to Nolva at 30/20 ?

I was seriously worried about adding Nolva do Letro and ruining the effectiveness of both compounds. but since if been flaffing around for 2 weeks i may as well hit the Breast Tissue receptors hard with Nolva ?