Cycle Setup in need of Educated Critique

[jkspencr]

Guys,

First, I am 28 years old, 5'9', 180lbs about 10-12% bf at the most and I am fortunate enough to have what I would classify as "good genetics". I have built a solid base through all of my years of training starting in my early teens.. I engage in a fairly intense crossfit/weight routine and eat very clean. I pretty much stay the same aesthetically year round but this year I want to take my fitness to a new level. I have never experimented with anabolics but I intend to do so in the most responsible fashion possible.

I have been reading for weeks now on various forums trying to find the optimal way to run the cycle I am about to start. With that being said and in the forefront, I would like to add that I have no intention of altering the products I have at my disposal for the forseeable future. This is what I have to work with and I am going to leave it at that. Next time around, I may alter the setup but they were purchased by recommendation at first and I had not done much research at the time. After doing much research, I realize test should be a base and I probably should have run a test only cycle to see how my body reacts but that is not an option for the time being. Period.

I have the following at my disposal:
100 10mg T-Bol
100 10mg Anavar (can get 100 more Anavar if I decide I want it)
100 25 mg Provibol (Proviron)
and 3 months worth of HGH (Pfizer Genotropin pen) at 2 iu/day
I plan on using LIV-52, TUDCA at 1 gram ED and N2Guard to protect my liver and other functions. This is important to me and I am not even remotely going to chance harming myself.
PCT of Clomid only

Getting straight to the point. What is the optimal way to utilize the above? I initially planned on running T-Bol only and then after PCT running the Anavar w/ proviron to make sure I kept my libido. After some heavy research I am thinking I should stack it all into one cycle. Which would be 30mg ED of T-bol and var with 25 -50 mg ED of Prov. With the above, that will be just short of a 5 week cycle in which I am going to train like a freak and eat like I am competing for Mr. Olympia. So, should I split the two and run them separately or stack them and run it like noted above? Should I alter my length and lower the doseages? Basically, for the knowledgeable people that are eyeing this board and once again how do I get the most out of what I have at my disposal while keeping my health the number 1 priority. Ie: liver funtions, libido, etc.

Thanks in advance!

[ScotchGuard02]

If this is your first cycle do a Test only cycle. http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...rst-cycle.html

[jkspencr]

I've already read that article and not being rude in the slightest but I also stated that "After doing much research, I realize test should be a base and I probably should have run a test only cycle to see how my body reacts but that is not an option for the time being. Period."

[Reiid13]

Guys,

First, I am 28 years old, 5'9', 180lbs about 10-12% bf at the most and I am fortunate enough to have what I would classify as "good genetics". I have built a solid base through all of my years of training starting in my early teens.. I engage in a fairly intense crossfit/weight routine and eat very clean. I pretty much stay the same aesthetically year round but this year I want to take my fitness to a new level. I have never experimented with anabolics but I intend to do so in the most responsible fashion possible.

I have been reading for weeks now on various forums trying to find the optimal way to run the cycle I am about to start. With that being said and in the forefront, I would like to add that I have no intention of altering the products I have at my disposal for the forseeable future. This is what I have to work with and I am going to leave it at that. Next time around, I may alter the setup but they were purchased by recommendation at first and I had not done much research at the time. After doing much research, I realize test should be a base and I probably should have run a test only cycle to see how my body reacts but that is not an option for the time being. Period.

I have the following at my disposal:
100 10mg T-Bol
100 10mg Anavar (can get 100 more Anavar if I decide I want it)
100 25 mg Provibol (Proviron)
and 3 months worth of HGH (Pfizer Genotropin pen) at 2 iu/day
I plan on using LIV-52, TUDCA at 1 gram ED and N2Guard to protect my liver and other functions. This is important to me and I am not even remotely going to chance harming myself.
PCT of Clomid only

Getting straight to the point. What is the optimal way to utilize the above? I initially planned on running T-Bol only and then after PCT running the Anavar w/ proviron to make sure I kept my libido. After some heavy research I am thinking I should stack it all into one cycle. Which would be 30mg ED of T-bol and var with 25 -50 mg ED of Prov. With the above, that will be just short of a 5 week cycle in which I am going to train like a freak and eat like I am competing for Mr. Olympia. So, should I split the two and run them separately or stack them and run it like noted above? Should I alter my length and lower the doseages? Basically, for the knowledgeable people that are eyeing this board and once again how do I get the most out of what I have at my disposal while keeping my health the number 1 priority. Ie: liver funtions, libido, etc.

Thanks in advance!

Welcome ! Can you post a pic ?

You should only run Test as a first cycle to see how your body responds to a elovated compound , one which you naturally produce .

If you run all those compounds , and a week later you have bigger tits than kate price , how will you know what caused it ?

Do you plan running HCG ?

How will anavar and prov keep your libido ? There AAS and will shut you down ....

And you cant run another cycle that fast .
Time on = Time off

Your way over your head , get educated

[jkspencr]

Yes, I will post a pic when I get a chance. I am not running test..I don't know how to make that any more clear. This isn't exactly a warm welcome as I feel I have done a large amount of research. First T-bol chemically was designed so it can’t convert to oestrogen. Anavar, from my research doesn't aromatize very much at all. Anavar has been documented to lower libido in larger doses. At 20-30 mg ED I don't think that will be an issue. Proviron is prescribed for sexual disfunction from what I have read and actually doesn't provide much if any anabolic effects but has been documented to greatly enhance libido. Proviron helps reduce oestrogenic side effects of other steroids such as water retention - lowered sex drive and Gynecomastia. It actually is used as an AI as well but arimadex and the sort are better functioning AI's because they were designed specifically for that. Truthfully, I am offended by your educate yourself comment as it seems you are hardly in a position to make that statement.

[newguy92]

Yes, I will post a pic when I get a chance. I am not running test..I don't know how to make that any more clear. This isn't exactly a warm welcome as I feel I have done a large amount of research. First T-bol chemically was designed so it can't convert to oestrogen. Anavar, from my research doesn't aromatize very much at all. Anavar has been documented to lower libido in larger doses. At 20-30 mg ED I don't think that will be an issue. Proviron is prescribed for sexual disfunction from what I have read and actually doesn't provide much if any anabolic effects but has been documented to greatly enhance libido. Proviron helps reduce oestrogenic side effects of other steroids such as water retention - lowered sex drive and Gynecomastia. It actually is used as an AI as well but arimadex and the sort are better functioning AI's because they were designed specifically for that. Truthfully, I am offended by your educate yourself comment as it seems you are hardly in a position to make that statement.

Run test or don't run anything. You'll simply be wasting your money and shutting yourself down. Every AAS will shut you down including anavar, proviron and tbol and you will have no testosterone to back this. Do your research, you aren't ready for a cycle

[Reiid13]

Yes, I will post a pic when I get a chance. I am not running test..I don't know how to make that any more clear. This isn't exactly a warm welcome as I feel I have done a large amount of research. First T-bol chemically was designed so it can't convert to oestrogen. Anavar, from my research doesn't aromatize very much at all. Anavar has been documented to lower libido in larger doses. At 20-30 mg ED I don't think that will be an issue. Proviron is prescribed for sexual disfunction from what I have read and actually doesn't provide much if any anabolic effects but has been documented to greatly enhance libido. Proviron helps reduce oestrogenic side effects of other steroids such as water retention - lowered sex drive and Gynecomastia. It actually is used as an AI as well but arimadex and the sort are better functioning AI's because they were designed specifically for that. Truthfully, I am offended by your educate yourself comment as it seems you are hardly in a position to make that statement.

You plan on running loads of very strong compounds with no cycle history ... Offended or not , you need to learn that people wont endorse a potentialy dangerous cycle , to a inexperienced person

[Back In Black]

Why isn't test an option?

You have enough anavar to last you 10-14 days unless you have pharma grade

You have enough tbol to probably last 15-18 days

Liv 52 will be a waste of cash you should use NAC instead.

Why only 2iu's HGH per day and for only 3 months? Not enough.

Why only clomid for PCT?

Why don't you train like a freak and eat like Mr Olympia now?

In all honesty you will get absolutely no love for an oral only cycle on this site. I'm not sure I can believe that health is your number 1 priority based on your plan.

[SteveUK]

I've already read that article and not being rude in the slightest but I also stated that "After doing much research, I realize test should be a base and I probably should have run a test only cycle to see how my body reacts but that is not an option for the time being. Period."

Then the advice would be not to do a cycle Period.

[jkspencr]

By TBol, I am talking about oral turinabol.. Not trenbolone. I wouldn't touch tren in all honesty. I am very confused here. I am trying to do this as best as possible and I am getting slammed saying I should up the dosages and somehow that is a healthier option?? I will be taking a gram of TUDCA ed. That is like throwing the kitchen sink at liver protection on top of the N2guard. At the doseages I am speaking about and from medical journal excerpts turinabol only shut down the participants up to an not exceeding 30% percent of natural Test production and they resumed normal production a week after and some of the participants actually produced greater amounts of test than they did going into the study but everyone at the least resumed their natural production.

I don't know how I could be anymore clear. Should I stack the Anavar or should I save it for a separate cycle? How should I incorporate the proviron.. should I even incorporate it... With what I have, how do I get the most out of it... Not go buy more bc it will better for your body. Not you're an idiot for not injecting test. I am doing an oral cycle of turinabol by itself and then anavar by itself or I am going to stack it... Which way should I?? Jesus Christ. I feel like I am wasting my time. I don't want to be on a 12 week test cycle. I feel a very mild oral will do what I want and I have the genes and routine to do the rest. Some genuine-educated responses are more than welcome.

[SteveUK]

By TBol, I am talking about oral turinabol.. Not trenbolone. I wouldn't touch tren in all honesty. I am very confused here. I am trying to do this as best as possible and I am getting slammed saying I should up the dosages and somehow that is a healthier option?? I will be taking a gram of TUDCA ed. That is like throwing the kitchen sink at liver protection on top of the N2guard. At the doseages I am speaking about and from medical journal excerpts turinabol only shut down the participants up to an not exceeding 30% percent of natural Test production and they resumed normal production a week after and some of the participants actually produced greater amounts of test than they did going into the study but everyone at the least resumed their natural production.

I don't know how I could be anymore clear. Should I stack the Anavar or should I save it for a separate cycle? How should I incorporate the proviron.. should I even incorporate it... With what I have, how do I get the most out of it... Not go buy more bc it will better for your body. Not you're an idiot for not injecting test. I am doing an oral cycle of turinabol by itself and then anavar by itself or I am going to stack it... Which way should I?? Jesus Christ. I feel like I am wasting my time. I don't want to be on a 12 week test cycle. I feel a very mild oral will do what I want and I have the genes and routine to do the rest. Some genuine-educated responses are more than welcome.

You are getting educated responses and experience based responses. I wouldn't run either alone so wont recommend any so good luck.

[Back In Black]

I feel like I wasted my time too. If you care to answer my questions we might be able to move forward.

UGL gear, particularly var, is normally very underdosed. So, you don't have enough to run a cycle. That is why I say you don't have enough.

Over to you......

[newguy92]

By TBol, I am talking about oral turinabol.. Not trenbolone. I wouldn't touch tren in all honesty. I am very confused here. I am trying to do this as best as possible and I am getting slammed saying I should up the dosages and somehow that is a healthier option?? I will be taking a gram of TUDCA ed. That is like throwing the kitchen sink at liver protection on top of the N2guard. At the doseages I am speaking about and from medical journal excerpts turinabol only shut down the participants up to an not exceeding 30% percent of natural Test production and they resumed normal production a week after and some of the participants actually produced greater amounts of test than they did going into the study but everyone at the least resumed their natural production. I don't know how I could be anymore clear. Should I stack the Anavar or should I save it for a separate cycle? How should I incorporate the proviron.. should I even incorporate it... With what I have, how do I get the most out of it... Not go buy more bc it will better for your body. Not you're an idiot for not injecting test. I am doing an oral cycle of turinabol by itself and then anavar by itself or I am going to stack it... Which way should I?? Jesus Christ. I feel like I am wasting my time. I don't want to be on a 12 week test cycle. I feel a very mild oral will do what I want and I have the genes and routine to do the rest. Some genuine-educated responses are more than welcome.

You've been told what to do. Take it upon yourself to make your own decision now

[jkspencr]

Test isn't an option bc I am not trying to grow like crazy. I don't need that and I don't want to shut myself down completely. I firmly believe the utilization of these mild orals will give me a slight upperhand in utilizing my food and help shedding some body fat. I can get more gh when the time comes but it is not cheap. I am getting the highest quality stuff out there and honestly I am using it for more of the health benefits than anything else.

If I stack them, I will be taking in 30 mg ed of Var and 30 mg ed of Tbol and that will last me 5 weeks. 60 mg ed of orals in total with the best liver protection money can buy. I was just reading older threads where moderators of this site said that the var/tbol combo was the only oral combo they would recommend. I realize I am not going to get the results I would if test was the base guys and I truly am coming to everyone with a genuine question and I have good intentions. I am a very intelligent guy and I have read more than I care to mention so if I a coming across the wrong way I apologize. I am not some little bitch trying to take a bunch of pills and get swole. My routine and diet is in check. How do I utilize these substances the best if that is all I have access to for the time being?

Not planning on HCG because I don't think it is necessary but I will look into it if it is strongly recommended. Honestly, I don't even know where to get it if I could. I am only using clomid for PCT because that is what was recommended to be my a former Mr. Britain. Which is also who recommended the rest of this.

[Igifuno]

Sounds like you have it all figured out then

[jkspencr]

Any recommendations on the proviron? That may have been a faulty purchase.

[Back In Black]

Sounds like you have it all figured out then

Sounds like it.

Good luck OP.

[jkspencr]

I sense massive amounts of sarcasm.

[Back In Black]

I'm sorry you didn't hear what you wanted to hear.

You have advice and there are questions outstanding but you are sticking to your plan anyway.

FYI - diet will dictate your results. You don't blow up on test if you don't want to.

Hope you get the results you seek.

[jkspencr]

Just so we're clear. The advice I have gotten from this forum is to inject test and get more orals.

[SteveUK]

Just so we're clear. The advice I have gotten from this forum is to inject test and get more orals.

Well orals will shut you down so test will be recommended. Answer the questions in the thread and you might get more responses.

[Reiid13]

I have never experimented with anabolics

I have the following at my disposal:
100 10mg T-Bol
100 10mg Anavar (can get 100 more Anavar if I decide I want it)
100 25 mg Provibol (Proviron)
and 3 months worth of HGH (Pfizer Genotropin pen) at 2 iu/day
I plan on using LIV-52, TUDCA at 1 gram ED and N2Guard to protect my liver and other functions.

This is important to me and I am not even remotely going to chance harming myself.

Getting straight to the point. What is the optimal way to utilize the above?

Oki you have never touched AAS , and you came here , listein to the advice

Back in Black asked you about your dosing , and stated you didnt have enough , and you refuse to answer a Pro's questions :S

You dont want to harm yourself , although mild orals , ....they are liver toxic , making them more harmfull than test , the recommended first AAS

You have answers , and questions , you need to utilize them , not the orals you have ...

[jkspencr]

I have answered every question except for the questions that had no relevance to my thread.

[Reiid13]

I have answered every question except for the questions that had no relevance to my thread.

If youve researched alot mate , then I dont know what your asking .
You want to utilize what orals you have , you have limit orals that are good enough for half a cycle , if that.


Its obviously up to you in the end what you do mate , you either research loads and take them the safest way you can , or you reconsider ( advised) , and get guidance from experienced people .

Theres a reason why you should do test only as first cycle , and not the list of stuff you have .

Hope you make the right decision mate

[jkspencr]

Anyone out there have experience stacking the two? Anyone out there have any experience with proviron? Its not methylated, so I am assuming it can strictly be used as a compliment and a sex drive increase. In all honesty, from what I have read it can be used to mimick the use of test but it wont give me the muscle building benefits of test and is 60mg ed of two different orals too much to handle? I guess that is what I was asking.. if that is even a question I'll run them separately just to be safe. Thoughts?

[jkspencr]

I appreciate the response.. What exactly are the reasons I should run test only? Its not like im trying to run 150 of var only.. I'm only using it as a compliment and realize it is a very light cycle. My question is stacking 30 mg of each ed with the proviron ok.. am I missing something in my research.. I can always reload and do this again in the future if I want but this is what I am working with for the time being.

[Back In Black]

To summarise

You don't have enough of your tbol or var to run them in high enough amounts for long enough.

You would need to double the dosing of HGH and run it for twice as long to be getting out of it what you want.

You would want to run nolva in your PCT.

You should run test as a base of all cycles.

You should train like a freak all the time and eat to reach your goals all the time. (Eating like Phil Heath with make you fat, fat, fat)

I'm pretty sure that should be simple enough for you to follow. I appreciate it isn't what you want to hear but it's what you need to hear.

[jkspencr]

I'm just gonna stop.. I can't make myself read all of this poor grammar from soo many unintelligent and probably out of shape people any longer. I'll be visiting the doctor this afternoon and going from there. Thanks everyone for nothing. I am going print this out and take it with me for a laugh.

[Back In Black]

I'm just gonna stop.. I can't make myself read all of this poor grammar from soo many unintelligent and probably out of shape people any longer. I'll be visiting the doctor this afternoon and going from there. Thanks everyone for nothing. I am going print this out and take it with me for a laugh.

Ha ha, poor you, bad grammar is upsetting you.

Man, you sound like a spoiled fvcker. Hasn't got his own way so he's leaving lmao

Make sure the door doesn't hit your backside on the way out.

[Reiid13]

I appreciate the response.. What exactly are the reasons I should run test only?

Test is the 'Father' if you like , of AAS . I believe that other AAS , are simply the testosterone molecule , just altered and tweaked to change the properties of the hormone. Your body also naturally produces approx 100mg's / week ( i believe ) after puberty. This means your body is already familiar with it , your just simply raising your test levels.

[Reiid13]

Ha ha, poor you, bad grammar is upsetting you.

Man, you sound like a spoiled fvcker. Hasn't got his own way so he's leaving lmao

Make sure the door doesn't hit your backside on the way out.

Lmfao give it two days , and he'll make a new account and make out he's on his 5th cycle and ask the same questions

[MuscleInk]

To summarise

You don't have enough of your tbol or var to run them in high enough amounts for long enough.

You would need to double the dosing of HGH and run it for twice as long to be getting out of it what you want.

You would want to run nolva in your PCT.

You should run test as a base of all cycles.

You should train like a freak all the time and eat to reach your goals all the time. (Eating like Phil Heath with make you fat, fat, fat)

I'm pretty sure that should be simple enough for you to follow. I appreciate it isn't what you want to hear but it's what you need to hear.

You did your best. I've never in my life run a cycle without testosterone. I don't understand why someone would chose to shut down their natural testosterone through negative feedback mechanisms and not replace that testosterone with an exogenous source to support normal male functions.

Masteron/masterolone is one of my favorite compounds but as an alpha-reduced form of testosterone with a high affinity for androgen receptors, it needs to be used carefully with a proper prostate management plan. DHT derivatives have very specific side effects that should be monitored.

My wife runs 25mg/d of anavar and it helps her maintain a lean physique. I've never run it less than 100mg/d and unless its pharmacy grade oxandrolone (I've used that once and it is superior to UGL grades) anything less than 60mg/d is a wasted effort.

I'd like his physician to sign up here after he's discussed the plan with his client. I've been in clinical practice for 18 years and would welcome his professional and candid opinion on the cycle if he can offer a more intelligent view than what has been provided by members here with years of anabolic success behind them.

[ghettoboyd]

man if only you could see what an arrogant fool you are being thinking you have this all figured out and that those of us with actual real world experience/knowledge advise is bunk...sorry you didn't get "high fives" from the members here as you where expecting...to be honest you can do whatever you want to do your a big boy right...so get on with it.....I will guarantee you will be very disappointed in your results or lack of them...how about doing a log so we can see your results and you can prove us wrong...then you can show us all how stupid we really are...

[MuscleInk]

[jkspencr]

PS. Not one person has said anything credible or helpful in the slightest. Great way to promote the website guys. Try and make someone feel like shit because you assume they don't know shit just because this is their first cycle and turn them away because he isn't using enough to be safe. A simple I don't know would have sufficed..

I'm going to inject test and completely shut myself down and everyone is happy happy because that is what they did and they heard from someone is has to be done that way. I do agree with the arguments about test but I don't want to mess with all of the side effects of coming off of it. I trust medical journals over this forum any day and they contradict EVERY SINGLE REPLY but I can't find medical journals referencing the 3 compounds working in unison. I won't be making another user name I assure you. I have wasted my time today and I apologize if I came across as a "spoiled ****$r". My health is the most important thing to me and if anyone has any experience in using tbol/anavar and proviron in unison please speak up.

[jkspencr]

Actually MuscleInk I appreciate your first post.

[jkspencr]

I cant stress enough how much I am not trying to be a know at all.. This is just frustrating.. I am not injecting this cycle. God damnit.

[kapper]

I dnt understand you say you want small gains and have awesome genetics... Why cant you do it naturally?

[MuscleInk]

Actually MuscleInk I appreciate your first post.

You're welcome. The second was more of a lighthearted response.

I still believe consideration of a test base would be a healthier approach. I appreciate the concerns about side effects from stopping a cycle but any anabolic at any dose is going to suppress your natural testosterone production to some degree. True, some compounds may have little aromatization potential, however, suppression is still suppression.

There are some who believe in anavar monocycles but they would be in the minority - at least among the knowledgable members here. Anavar is tricky to dial in effectively, especially UGL brands. It can also raise BP depending on doses which is another risk factor. Dehydration is another concern often overlooked.

I will always return to masteron - it's one of my favorites. Yes, it certainly drives up libido but the prostate issues must always be monitored.

The guys here do have your best interest at heart. The advice is offered in an attempt to build the safest cycle with the lowest negative health outcomes. Sometimes the advice may be in opposition to what you have heard or read and it may come across as aloof or argumentative, but the guys who have been here and earned their respective titles speak from experience.

Medical literature is always a great resource if its coming from legitimate providers (PubMed would be my gold standard) unfortunately, it's not easy to find well controlled studies with acceptable patient numbers to draw appropriate conclusions and extrapolation of their findings may be limited to the variables under investigation.

This is an ever evolving discipline with new ideas and protocols. Some will be correct, others not, and often success comes from trial and error and not publications - but don't give up entirely on published medical journals; I still need people reading my publications from time to time!

[BallSak]

OP what makes you think tbol and var won't shut you down?

And once you are shut down from them how will your male body function without either endogenous or exogenous testosterone?