Redness and pain inches away from injection site

[mesophyte]

Hi everyone,

My first pin was on wednesday (2 days ago) and I hit a delt. This morning after I came back from the gym and took off my armband (for my phone) I noticed that there was a red region on my biceps (about 5 inches from the injection site) that was a bit sore to the touch. As the day progressed, the red region seems a bit larger but again, inches away from the injection site. The injection site itself is completely fine, looks and feels totally normal as if I hadn't even injected.

I've been doing some searching about this. Got terrified by the abcess and septic shock info but I was impecable with my asepsis (disinfected my workspace, my hands, the vial, and the injection site), used new disposable needles (one for drawing the gear and another one to inject), and the gear is from a regulated pharmaceutical company and not an ugl. I'm using a 200mg / ml pharma grade test prop (Landerlan). Could it be that it is too concentrated and the solution moved to my biceps where it has now crystalized?

I don't understand why the injection site is fine but this developed inches away, maybe it had something to do with the tight armband?

It is warm to the touch...

Not sure what to do. This has me so worried...

[austinite]

You'd be hurting pretty bad if it crashed in your body. Oil can leak and pool up elsewhere if it's not deep enough in the muscle.

[mesophyte]

You'd be hurting pretty bad if it crashed in your body. Oil can leak and pool up elsewhere if it's not deep enough in the muscle.

Thanks for the reply! I've been refreshing this page like crazy. Do you think this sounds normal and I can stop worrying?

In addition to the arm, my glute is in pain now too but I fudged that injection and I'm quite sure some was injected out of the muscle. The body should resolve this on its own or should I do something?

[austinite]

Just wait a few more days. If it doesn't go down and go away, see a doc.

[mesophyte]

Just wait a few more days. If it doesn't go down and go away, see a doc.

ok, thanks aust

[★Valkyrie★]

First and foremost, get a pen/marker and outline the redness..Keep a keen eye on this, this way you'll be able to monitor if the site in fact spreads..It wouldn't hurt to have some benadryl on hand.If you get feverish, I'd suggest contacting your physician..

Other than that.. What size pin did you use? This could be a case of "extravasation"..Where the compound leaked sub'q on/in/or around fatty tissue, and between your skin..A variation to this is hypersensitivity,a local flare up if you will..An irritant on the localize tissue or even nerves as the oils disperses..It's temporary..

Your situation is basically classified as a "Irritant injection".. If it worsens,you start to see massive swelling,discharge/leaking, then your along the "Vesicants, also known as chemical cellulitus".. You'll know if this is the case..

Just keep a close eye on it, and watch out for fever and such, and most definitely utilize the pen/marker suggestion like I stressed prior..

[mesophyte]

First and foremost, get a pen/marker and outline the redness..Keep a keen eye on this, this way you'll be able to monitor if the site in fact spreads..It wouldn't hurt to have some benadryl on hand.If you get feverish, I'd suggest contacting your physician..

Ok, I'll do that now.

Other than that.. What size pin did you use?

22G 1 1/4"

This could be a case of "extravasation"..Where the compound leaked sub'q on/in/or around fatty tissue, and between your skin..

In addition to the issue I mentioned about my arm, this probably happened today in my glute. It was my first time doing a glute injection and the needle ended up coming up a bit during the shot. I pushed it back in once I noticed but some of the test probably went outside the muscle. Does extravasation resolve itself? Anything I can do to help? (massage, ice/heat pack?)

A variation to this is hypersensitivity,a local flare up if you will..An irritant on the localize tissue or even nerves as the oils disperses..It's temporary..

Your situation is basically classified as a "Irritant injection".. If it worsens,you start to see massive swelling,discharge/leaking, then your along the "Vesicants, also known as chemical cellulitus".. You'll know if this is the case..

Just keep a close eye on it, and watch out for fever and such, and most definitely utilize the pen/marker suggestion like I stressed prior..

Ok, thanks!

[★Valkyrie★]

If it leaked outside, Yes it will absorb but there's less blood circulation,so the absorption ratio is much slower,to boot the esterases enzymes are slower to the effected area in which the the cleaving process is slightly delayed,causes the oil to sit and pocket,occupying the site longer, thus causes longer irritation,discomfort..

The good news? You'll live!

[mesophyte]

If it leaked outside, Yes it will absorb but there's less blood circulation,so the absorption ratio is much slower,to boot the esterases enzymes are slower to the effected area in which the the cleaving process is slightly delayed,causes the oil to sit and pocket,occupying the site longer, thus causes longer irritation,discomfort..

The good news? You'll live!

Thanks, I really appreciate the guidance!

This is so nerve-wracking...is there anything I can do to help the situation (both in my arm and glute)?

[★Valkyrie★]

Not really..Time is really the only thing here that could be in your favor or not..beside that, taking some benadryl to hinder any onset of an immune response..By chance,what's the carrier oil in your compound? Is it EO? I wouldn't do any rubbing or anything of that nature,that could trigger more inflammation and amplify the sensitivity of the area..

How many mls/volume did you inject with in each area? If your glutes have NOT shown similar effects/reaction, then don't worry about it..If it does display the same type of reaction, discontinue the product in all..Because you could be having a immune response to the raws, or the carrier oil..

FYI.. Sometimes when some raws are being manufactured, they cut corners,leaving an acidic residue behind (piss poor quality )..Thus,some users get an immune response to their hormones, an allergic reaction to Test E or Cyp..Its not that their allergic to testosterone (which is laughable ) but in lieu,to the acidic build-up in the raws that lack in quality..

Just figured I would toss this out there..

[mesophyte]

Not really..Time is really the only thing here that could be in your favor or not..beside that, taking some benadryl to hinder any onset of an immune response..By chance,what's the carrier oil in your compound? Is it EO? I wouldn't do any rubbing or anything of that nature,that could trigger more inflammation and amplify the sensitivity of the area..

It doesn't say what the excipients are. On the box it lists:

FORMULA:
Cada 1mL contiene:
Tetosterona Propionato........200mg
Excipientes........................c.s.

How many mls/volume did you inject with in each area? If your glutes have NOT shown similar effects/reaction, then don't worry about it..If it does display the same type of reaction, discontinue the product in all..Because you could be having a immune response to the raws, or the carrier oil..

My glute is hurting but I fudged the injection so I was already expecting that regardless of the carrier oil. I would assume that they would be using a hypoalergenic base. This is a pharma grade product used in Paraguay. I read the full insert and it doesn't mention what the excipients are, just the pharmacokinetics, indications, counterindications, precautions, side effects, etc. (And in the side effects they don't mention anything about redness etc in the injection site but then again the listed recommended doses for legal uses are much lower than what I'm using)

FYI.. Sometimes when some raws are being manufactured, they cut corners,leaving an acidic residue behind (piss poor quality )..Thus,some users get an immune response to their hormones, an allergic reaction to Test E or Cyp..Its not that their allergic to testosterone (which is laughable ) but in lieu,to the acidic build-up in the raws that lack in quality..
Just figured I would toss this out there..

I doubt that quality would be an issue since it is pharma grade, authorized and regulated by Paraguay's Ministerio de Salud Publica y Bienestar Social. We don't have Benadryl in my country. Would any antihistamine work just as well?


It is interesting that the entire region around the injection site is completely normal now, even if I press down. I can't even tell where I injected (other than from memory). Then, a few inches away, this red region sensitive like a bruise. Maybe it is extravasation, I just don't know how since I went 1 1/4" deep.


EDIT: By the way, I also posted on a local forum and so far two members have said that they have had the same reactions with Landerlan products (not necessarily with test prop). Maybe the excipients they use are irritating. One of the members said that the reaction is not directly in the injection site but seems to spread in the muscle. He said he had really bad pain with their Dura. That being said I'm hesitant to switch because a fake Landerlan product is next to impossible to come across (embossed box with security feature like scratch area, holographic label, embossed lid, package insert, lot number that can be checked on the website, plus their products are cheaper than the UGL products which dissuades anyone from going through the effort of counterfiting) and because it is regulated by the health ministry I feel more secure in knowing I am really injecting test and not some crap mixed in someone's basement. If it is just temporary pain, I don't mind. I was worried that it might be something serious (and I'm still a bit worried to be honest).

[NACH3]

I've pinned on an angle and didn't know it til my buddy told me "wait your at an angle" so I had the same sort of thing and it was prop but it went away within 2 days.... Just my .02! Just make sure in spots where you can't see as much; to make sure you don't go in on an angle, therefore you'll get max absorption... Also, I my glutes/quads I use 1.5" pins... Delts/tri's/etc(smaller more lean muscle) I use no less then a 1" pin!

Good luck!

[★Valkyrie★]

Let me ask you this,is this your first time using Prop,and this lab for that matter?
I asked this due to the fact that the Propionic Acids in the ester can cause some potential site/tissue irritation (I'm NOT referring to the localized pain from the concentration from the BB/BA solvents that most experience )
Also, some people are just prone to intense site pain,irritation,redness,swelling from Prop..Because their esterases enzymes don't recognize the short ester as it's closely related to a C1 (1 carbon chain )..Thus it's similar to bee venom,or a toxin of some sort,..Prop is a "C3-3 carbon",thus the body has an immediate immune response,causing a toxic assault by sending fluids to the injection site/surrounding area to flush out the Propionic acids, in lieu of cleaving the ester..In return,the effects would be similar to a bite,sting,ext..Irritation,swelling that can last for several days..Leaving intense localized swelling for most users!

There's always a trade off.. Shorter the ester,greater the chance for site irritation,or other general localized site related issues..
Keep in mind,the solvents could add to the equation,inducing a more pronounced response..

In no way am I advocating that you or people are allergic,I'm merely implementing that your immune system "could quite possibly" be reacting in the similar fashion with an acute response..

Would a antihistamine work just as well,in lieu of benadryl? Absolutely..Same thing

[numbere]

I asked this due to the fact that the Propionic Acids in the ester can cause some potential site/tissue irritation (I'm NOT referring to the localized pain from the concentration from the BB/BA solvents that most experience )
Also, some people are just prone to intense site pain,irritation,redness,swelling from Prop..Because their esterases enzymes don't recognize the short ester as it's closely related to a C1 (1 carbon chain )..Thus it's similar to bee venom,or a toxin of some sort,..Prop is a "C3-3 carbon",thus the body has an immediate immune response,causing a toxic assault by sending fluids to the injection site/surrounding area to flush out the Propionic acids, in lieu of cleaving the ester..In return,the effects would be similar to a bite,sting,ext..Irritation,swelling that can last for several days..Leaving intense localized swelling for most users!

Hey bro no beef but your chemistry is a bit off. Injection pain from test p is a direct result of the esterase enzyme recognizing the ester. When test p is injected the esterase enzyme causes hydrolysis to occur. In this process test prop is converted into propionic acid and test. The body has an immune response when any foreign mass is introduced intracellular. Pain from bee venom (apitoxin) has little to do with esters. Apitoxin is a complex solution of peptides and proteins. Pain is mainly caused by the peptide melittin exciting sensory neurons.

[★Valkyrie★]

I was going to suggest the peptide/mellttin analogy,but chose not to confuse the OP as it can really confuse things,as it gets deep,and we can talk about the direct influence that it has on aminos and so on.. For the prop, it's already made of propionic acids , all raws hormones contain some level of these acidic residuals..The esterase does NOT recognize the ester at first thus causing a immune response..

Good feedback none the less,and bringing some clarity to the subject..

[numbere]

For the prop, it's already made of propionic acids , all raws hormones contain some level of these acidic residuals..The esterase does NOT recognize the ester at first thus causing a immune response..

The enzyme does recognize the prop ester upon injection and decay begins immediately. This is how it's possible measure half life. The the amount of decay can be measured moments after injection. Serum concentrations can be detected in the blood hours after injection. Immune response is triggered anytime a foreign substance injected, this it NOT dependent on esterase.

[The Deadlifting Dog]

Too bad I didn't major in chemistry.
I am about to start a test prop cycle and I have no idea what the pain is going to be caused by even after reading these posts.

[mesophyte]

I've pinned on an angle and didn't know it til my buddy told me "wait your at an angle" so I had the same sort of thing and it was prop but it went away within 2 days.... Just my .02! Just make sure in spots where you can't see as much; to make sure you don't go in on an angle, therefore you'll get max absorption... Also, I my glutes/quads I use 1.5" pins... Delts/tri's/etc(smaller more lean muscle) I use no less then a 1" pin!
Good luck!

Isn't it supposed to be done at an angle for glute shots? Slightly downward into the muscle? Shoud the injection into the delt be completely horizontal, at a 90º angle to the arm?

Let me ask you this,is this your first time using Prop,and this lab for that matter?

yes it is


I took citirizine and noticed no change so I think that means it is not allergic?

It is no more or less painful or more or less red than it was yesterday. My pen marks got rubbed off but I can still see them lightly and it looks like it has expanded slightly. It is quite warm and I have felt some hot flashes in the region.

[mesophyte]

Does it sound like an infection? I was so impeccable with the asepsis I don't see how it could be but anyways, I have 5 tablets of Amoxicillin-clavulanate (875mg amoxicilin + 125mg potassium clavulanate). At a dose of 2 per day that is enough for 2 1/2 days if I were to take it. Does it sound like an infection to you? Should I take it?

Should I take a NSAID like naproxen or ipubrofen or should I let the inflammation run its course?

Not sure how to handle this especially since I don't know if it is inflammation or an infection.

[numbere]

Do you have a fever?

[mesophyte]

Astoundingly, it seems I don't own a thermometer and there is no one around I can ask to check forehead right now. But, with fevers usually come chills and cold sweats and I have nothing like that. I'm feeling quite warm actually.

[numbere]

If you don't have a fever than it's unlikely an infection. You have a high concentration (200mg/ml) with a short decay rate that is hydrolysing into propionic acid in virgin muscle. These elements combined form a perfect storm for PIP to occur. OP this is exactly why last week every vet advised you to use a test e or c for your first cycle. You have a few different paths to choose from this point. You can end your cycle, work through the pain, or cut your pins 50/50 with sterile filtered oil.

[NACH3]

Isn't it supposed to be done at an angle for glute shots? Slightly downward into the muscle? Shoud the injection into the delt be completely horizontal, at a 90º angle to the arm?


yes it is


I took citirizine and noticed no change so I think that means it is not allergic?

It is no more or less painful or more or less red than it was yesterday. My pen marks got rubbed off but I can still see them lightly and it looks like it has expanded slightly. It is quite warm and I have felt some hot flashes in the region.

I definitely agree... I should have been more in depth! My F-up was in on my side of my Quad... I angled it so much that it kinda pooled a lil outside of the muscle but was still deep enough for IM (1 1/2" pin) !

But yes you should be at a slight angle in the glute as you are correct! My bad for being so broad! Also, my delt shots are petty horizontal... 90 degrees from delt for the most part, could be on a very slight angle ... But the one I fudged was at like a 120 degree angle on the right side of my quad - shoulda been way more horizontal... Lol!

Thanks for reminding me to be more in depth... Much appreciated!

[mesophyte]

If you don't have a fever than it's unlikely an infection. You have a high concentration (200mg/ml) with a short decay rate that is hydrolysing into propionic acid in virgin muscle. These elements combined form a perfect storm for PIP to occur. OP this is exactly why last week every vet advised you to use a test e or c for your first cycle. You have a few different paths to choose from this point. You can end your cycle, work through the pain, or cut your pins 50/50 with sterile filtered oil.

I don't remember off the top of my head the specific reasons why I chose prop over the others, just that after researching all the options I was more comfortable with it even with the more frequent injections. I think I was under the impression also that recovery after prop is faster. I might consider switching to another ester.

I can tolerate the pain if I know it is nothing to worry about.

The only pharma grade product I have access to in my country is Landerlan and their gear apparently all causes pain. The rest is UGL stuff I don't want to risk (could end up with counterfeit, underdosed, unsterile gear) and I don't want to even consider trying to get gear from abroad as that could bring a ton of issues.

By the way the redness seems to have spread but also lightened to the point where it is barely noticeable and the pain has also lessened. Still a bit warm. Overall seems to be getting better.

My glute on the other hand... but I was excpecting that. I'll need to be more careful on my next glute pinning.

[SeatownSharksFan]

First pin, virgin muscle? Yeah it's going to hurt. I do my quads and almost always hurts lower than the injection site. gravity I'm assuming.

[BadDevlin]

If you are using gear from an underground lab, you may be having some tissue inflammation from the high benzyl alcohol content typically found in UG gear. My body does not like that stuff at all, and I used to get very similar PIP in the region surrounding where I pin. It is not from the injection itself, so I didn't get pain and inflammation from where I actually pinned, but in the area where the gear spread out, which at first was a pretty large area because I wasn't getting the gear deep enough into the muscle.

After like 5 weeks my body seemed to get used to it, then switching to 1.5" pin for my glutes instead of a 1" pin I don't really get it anymore and I'm in week 9. But that sounds a lot like exactly what I went through, except in my glutes.

[mesophyte]

First pin, virgin muscle? Yeah it's going to hurt. I do my quads and almost always hurts lower than the injection site. gravity I'm assuming.

I don't think that is supposed to happen. Maybe we are injecting too deep or too shallow and it isn't getting in the right place and therefore leaks down?

If you are using gear from an underground lab, you may be having some tissue inflammation from the high benzyl alcohol content typically found in UG gear. My body does not like that stuff at all, and I used to get very similar PIP in the region surrounding where I pin. It is not from the injection itself, so I didn't get pain and inflammation from where I actually pinned, but in the area where the gear spread out, which at first was a pretty large area because I wasn't getting the gear deep enough into the muscle.

After like 5 weeks my body seemed to get used to it, then switching to 1.5" pin for my glutes instead of a 1" pin I don't really get it anymore and I'm in week 9. But that sounds a lot like exactly what I went through, except in my glutes.

My gear is human pharma grade but it known to cause pip. SubQ with this stuff is terrible. The glute I fudged the injection with (the needle wasn't all the way in for part of the injection) is so sensitive and red because it went partially subq. A google search with the terms "subq test prop" will bring up some images of what the reaction looks like if anyone is interested. I'm not going to post a picture of my butt on here. The color seems to be lightening, it is still very sensitive and I have a lump. I was expecting this though because I knew I did not have proper injection technique. I'm really glad I didn't try to do subcutaneous injections like I had been considering.

My other glute seems fine after last night's pinning. Some very slight pip in the muscle and that's it. Shows the importance of really getting the needle in there.

Do you guys think 1 1/4" is too long for delts? I think that might have been the problem, going too deep.