First Cycle Ready To Go

[MikeShlort]

fghgfhjfj

[PBJtime]

27 year old, 6 ft, 180lbs, bf% 17-18, white male Never cycled before. Starting this Saturday Gear: 500 mg/wk test enanthate (will inject every Sat for 12 wks) Running during cycle: 250IU hcg twice weekly (Do I need to start on day 1 or on day 14??) ~ 25 mcg Arimidex EOD (Do I need to start on day 2 or on day 14???) PCT: This is where I find conflicting info. Should I: Clomid (Week 14 or 12?): 50/50/25/20 or should I do 75/75/50/50?? Nolva: (Week 14 or 12?): 40/20/20/20 Diet is fine (~3000 calories clean, anything more I gain fat and not strength), training is fine, bf is fine (I shed so quickly I will likely be right around 15% 3 weeks from now) Is there anything I am overlooking??! Please give me your advice. Most important thing for me: retaining my natural test once I am done cycle and PCT. Thank you for all your help!

For the questions on HCG & AI , you haven't fully done all your research IMO .

@ 6 ft and have 18% bf. You sure that's accurate ? Post something of your daily CLEAN diet .. Is there a picture that you can put up so I can see what your starting with ?

[PBJtime]

I also see your only pining once a week ? Umm , you need to hold off this cycle before and educate yourself buddy .

[numbere]

I'm not sure you are ready for a cycle. There are a few big problems with your proposed cycle. There is no way 3000 calories is enough for you to lean bulk. Your BF is a bit high. This will make controlling E2 more difficult and indicates a lack of commitment to training. Losing body fat at the begging of the cycle then bulking is counterproductive. Either your bulking or cutting, make a decision and stick with it the whole cycle. As asked by PB; pinning once a week with test e is not frequent enough. If you have enough hCG to last the entire cycle then begin dosing on day 1. There is no need to front load clomid, 75mg of clomid is fine for week 1 of PCT. Both nolva and clomid are needed the best chance at recovery. Do you have all the products listed in the OP? 25mcg = 0.025mg that is not enough dex to keep E2 within range. You should read the attached thread several times.

My First Cycle: Planning and Executing a Successful First Cycle

[PBJtime]

Numbere ,

Thanks for giving him the full layout . Unfortunately I was not expecting to see a response from him

[numbere]

Numbere ,

Thanks for giving him the full layout . Unfortunately I was not expecting to see a response from him

Hopefully OP will come around. Oftentimes it's difficult to hear stuff that you don't want to hear when you are looking for confirmation. I first came on this board years ago looking for advise on a dbol only cycle. I was really upset then the members told me that I was too young and cycles without test are a no go.

[PBJtime]

I joined this forum mid - January and couldn't ask for a better group of knowledgable guys on here . I have 11yrs of lifting experience and stayed natty till I was 29 , now 31 . I couldn't be more thankful for holding out that long ! Felt my test levels drop and felt ready for the next step and it's been a slow and steady ride ever since . AAS is without a doubt NOT something to jump on and expect magic to happen lol Only wish anyone that is under 25 to respect it !

[bhmyers1968]

There a lot of post here that hammer the same information over and over. I too wanted instant results but there's no such thing... I was in that high bf group and spent 8 months training hard simply to drop body fat so I could be successful on my first cycle. This group is full of knowledge, what more could you ask for, just follow the plans as they have been laid out and do your research and then do it again prior to asking questions and starting a cycle. Theres a wealth of knowledge here and I for one am grateful for all you vets.......

[jesse4466]

I agree, lot of knowledge here. One of the most eye opening things for me was the importance of eating. And eating a lot. I always thought it was about three meals and few scoops of protein lol. No wonder why I always hit a plateau.

[MikeShlort]

hajwkehjah

[bhmyers1968]

I find it amazing at the amount of knowledge or lack there of people have before injecting something into their body. Eating is probably 80% of it all and eating right (the hard part) I have 6 meals a day, you need to learn what to eat and the timing associated with it. I average 3200 calories a day and there's a lot of people who say I don't eat enough! Everyone's body is different and it takes a while to dial in your macros, then the hard part is actually sticking to it. There's a ton of information here about this topic, from a persons body type to their BMR, their TDEE and the amount of intake over that based on activity levels to achieve their goals.

[PBJtime]

500 mg a wk is perfect for Test E for 12 wks . What else ?

[numbere]

Is 500 mg/wk test e too low for a beginner?

Do you have test, hCG, dex, clomid, and nolva in your possession?

500-600mg/week should be your dosage range. You should drop your body fat before starting. Begining your cycle with a cut and then lean bulking is counterproductive. The PCT Austinite laid out in the attach thread is what you should be following.

[MikeShlort]

ghjkaewkhgjkakw

[MikeShlort]

agjlkjg

[numbere]

I'm surprised to hear that that a vet would give you the green light to begin a lean bulk cycle at 17-18% body fat. Well of course your dealer would tell you to take dbol, he's trying to up sell. 500mg/week is fine for a first cycle. There was an FDA study done on 600mg/week test that showed great results. That's what I was basing my advise on.

[bhmyers1968]

"I already have the stuff bought and have been lifting for 3 years with frustrating results - eat too much, look fat. Miss a meal due to being excessively tired from construction job + working 7 days/wk + gym + biking to work(I understand AAS helps this problem), catabolic for the next 3 days".

I would really concentrate on a clean diet, I know what you mean, its difficult. I often cook my meals 2-3 days in advance, so I have everything I need and time doesnt impact nutrition. Eat frequently.... I know that can be a challenge too. I had to really step up the cardio as well..... Theres a lot of knowledge here and some great folks to get you kicked off but in the end you need to understand what your body calls for and that happens through trial and error.... Good luck bro.

[kelkel]

That Austineite saw my BF pictures and said I am G2G "don't worry about losing any BF, just make sure strength is up to avoid injury to joints/ligs"

I have all the gear in my possession.

The only thing I may add is one more vial of test e and..

My source explained since there already will be a shutdown, it's best to take advantage and follow a cycle that will produce best results. He suggested a 25 day 40mg/day dbol cycle for the first 25 days. He explained the 500mg/wk test should be enough to sustain the gains made in the first month. Your thoughts?

I feel that's a good philosophy. Especially since EVERYONE on any AAS forum (including Austinite) explained that even 250mg/wk will cause shut down, which gives the exact same risk of never coming back from..

Forget the dbol and your friends "more is better" logic. With his logic you may as well add tren.

Learn what test will do for and to you first and foremost. If you mix the two you will not be able to accomplish this. I strongly urge you to follow the advice in Austinites thread and what's been given above. It's in your best interest. Be sure you get BW as it's really a great way to learn for the future. Good luck.

[MikeShlort]

Thank you! Great advice. Also I get blood work fairly often, last time my cholesterol was "amazing" and my blood pressure was fine. But will be getting again right before I start. And during. (6 wks in). Then after (6 wks after last dose)

[kelkel]

Thank you! Great advice. Also I get blood work fairly often, last time my cholesterol was "amazing" and my blood pressure was fine. But will be getting again right before I start. And during. (6 wks in). Then after (6 wks after last dose)

Outstanding. Let us know how you do on this thread if you can. Nutrition is everything so make it count.

[MikeShlort]

I'm surprised to hear that that a vet would give you the green light to begin a lean bulk cycle at 17-18% body fat. Well of course your dealer would tell you to take dbol, he's trying to up sell. 500mg/week is fine for a first cycle. There was an FDA study done on 600mg/week test that showed great results. That's what I was basing my advise on.

I guess it's best to keep it separate the first time so I can see what the effects will be of the compound, as kelkel suggested.

That FDA study you're referring to, all the people were not under 15% body fat. They were randoms. And they did not exercise. They all lost body fat %.

But thanks for your advice.

[numbere]

I guess it's best to keep it separate the first time so I can see what the effects will be of the compound, as kelkel suggested.

That FDA study you're referring to, all the people were not under 15% body fat. They were randoms. And they did not exercise. They all lost body fat %.

But thanks for your advice.

That's correct. They also had higher rates of amortization and increased risks of cardiovascular disease when compared to people who are under 15%.

[MikeShlort]

That's correct. They also had higher rates of amortization and increased risks of cardiovascular disease when compared to people who are under 15%.

Well, I have good cholesterol so that's a plus. That brings me to my next question:

WIll the arimidex alone be enough to suppress gyno or should I also keep something on hand to take if I notice signs?

[numbere]

Well, I have good cholesterol so that's a plus. That brings me to my next question:

WIll the arimidex alone be enough to suppress gyno or should I also keep something on hand to take if I notice signs?

Dex doesn't directly suppress gyno, it helps you control E2. There are far greater health risks from high E2 then gyno. Ralox is a good product to have on hand. However, if you follow kel's advise by having BW pre and mid cycle then adjusting you AI dosage, gyno shouldn't be an issue. Make sure you are getting a sensitive E2 assay when you get your lab.

[MikeShlort]

Dex doesn't directly suppress gyno, it helps you control E2. There are far greater health risks from high E2 then gyno. Ralox is a good product to have on hand. However, if you follow kel's advise by having BW pre and mid cycle then adjusting you AI dosage, gyno shouldn't be an issue. Make sure you are getting a sensitive E2 assay when you get your lab.

Here's the thing.. if I ask my doc to test for all that stuff he's going to know what it's for and might tell me to **** off. That's my concern

[numbere]

Here's the thing.. if I ask my doc to test for all that stuff he's going to know what it's for and might tell me to **** off. That's my concern

Then order the labs yourself through private md labs.

[numbere]

In order to do this correctly you need a pre, mid, and post cycle lab.

[Grim31]

Brother you need to learn half lifes, ai's, pct protocol, the works. All the answers are in this forum, just search it up. Especially for this 1st cycle... These guys will help you past the basics, but none are going to do your homework for you.

[MikeShlort]

gtghj

[MikeShlort]

Dex doesn't directly suppress gyno, it helps you control E2. There are far greater health risks from high E2 then gyno. Ralox is a good product to have on hand. However, if you follow kel's advise by having BW pre and mid cycle then adjusting you AI dosage, gyno shouldn't be an issue. Make sure you are getting a sensitive E2 assay when you get your lab.

How about Letrolzole (Femara)? Is that okay to use if I start to notice signs? I am able to get that fairly quickly.

[MuscleInk]

I agree, lot of knowledge here. One of the most eye opening things for me was the importance of eating. And eating a lot. I always thought it was about three meals and few scoops of protein lol. No wonder why I always hit a plateau.

Good to hear it. Many guys simply do NOT eat enough.....they believe they do.....but the reality is, they do not. Once you learn how, when, and what to eat, and stay committed, the results DO come, even without anabolics. Steroids are only the icing on the cake. Without a proper foundation of nutrition and training, steroid cycles will yield less than optimal results and worse, many guys lose the gains because they never understood the value of nutrition and how to eat properly all the time.

Good job Jesse

[MuscleInk]

How about Letrolzole (Femara)? Is that okay to use if I start to notice signs?

Letrozole is harsh and can also cause a lot of problems with lipid metabolism. Way is it that every guy thinks an AI should be taken if they SEE signs. Elevated estrogen can thicken and clot your blood, cause hypercholesterolemia, hyperlipidemia, promote prostate problems, slow wound healing, increase risks for metabolic syndromes......you won't SEE those things coming.

Don't use the compounds if you don't know why certain substances are necessary and when they should be used.

[jesse4466]

Good to hear it. Many guys simply do NOT eat enough.....they believe they do.....but the reality is, they do not. Once you learn how, when, and what to eat, and stay committed, the results DO come, even without anabolics. Steroids are only the icing on the cake. Without a proper foundation of nutrition and training, steroid cycles will yield less than optimal results and worse, many guys lose the gains because they never understood the value of nutrition and how to eat properly all the time. Good job Jesse

Thank you sir.

Yes, it seems Steroids are like gasoline but if there is no wood on the fire, the flame burns out quick. So food is the real fuel.

[MikeShlort]

awjkljklgeaw

[MuscleInk]

I will be running arimidex, as I mentioned. I guess the "read everything before you post" rule only applies to newbies.. But thank you for the information. The Fermara I will only take if I feel the tingling nipples side effect. Hopefully my arimidex doseage will be proper so it won't resort to that but I wanted to know if Letrozole is a good backup, as that is what is available to me.

Also, eating and sleep IMO is more important than training. And difficult to properly execute. But I am not worried about that factor, I am confident in my diet and my sleep cycle is decent. Just worried about my nuts.

Sorry, saw the dex reference but was referring to the mention of letro specifically. (My bad, I'm in the middle of putting a neurology lecture together for Friday - you do that for me, I'll pay closer attention to each word).

Just be careful with the letro. I've seen guys do more good than bad with letro in my clinics (again, if your experience implies otherwise, let's defer to that then). For actual gyno, raloxifene would be a better and safer therapeutic.

[MikeShlort]

Okay, thank you. I will try to get a hold of ralox, if not I will be careful with letro.

[kelkel]

Give me some credit, there are tons of retards who go on stuff with no research, no blood work, no predetermined strategy. I know one, he comes out fine every time, lucky prick!

Funny yet sad at the same time. He's fine on the outside, who knows what's happening on the inside. Or what the future holds for him.
Mike I enjoy your posts and your desire to learn. Be sure to stick around.

[MikeShlort]

ejkakjae

[Juced_porkchop]

I also see your only pining once a week ? Umm , you need to hold off this cycle before and educate yourself buddy .

once a week is fine with teste, but 2x a week is a bit better. . one is fine and doable though...

as for HCG i rec it just last 4-5 weeks of cycle leading up to BUT NOT into PCT at 500iu 2x a week. pct can vary a bit on opinion. i rec 50mg clomid ed for 4 weeks and 20mg tamox/nolva ed for 4 weeks.

[Juced_porkchop]

Thank you.

I'm reading some information that suggests waiting 3 weeks (rather than 2) to begin PCT after using a long ester (test enanthate). But in the guides at this site, it suggests 2 weeks. The argument for waiting the extra week is if you start after two weeks, you will basically waste a week's worth of PCT, thus being shorted by a week (since I only have 4 weeks worth of PCT). What do you guys think?

start 2.5 weeks if worried, i usually say 2-3 weeks IMO