Interesting HCG Info/Protocol (250IU EOD)

[upperhandy]

Here is an interesting study on HCG usage during Test-e application @ 200mg/week

Low-Dose Human Chorionic Gonadotropin Maintains Intratesticular Testosterone in Normal Men with Testosterone-Induced Gonadotropin Suppression

Figure 4 shows 200mg/week induces almost complete shutdown of intratesticular testosterone (ITT) at 21 days. But supplementation of 250IU HCG EOD brings levels up in the normal range. This is enough to maintain normal spermatogenesis (a sign of healthy functioning testicles).

Now... here's where I begin to ponder.....

If 250IU EOD can stimulate normal ITT then would this be a solution for people who want to do "oral only" cycles? 250IU EOD keeps testicles functioning normally so this should solve any shutdown problem, no? Other than the fact that this goes against the grain of the "NO ORALS ONLY CYCLE BRO!" culture here and everywhere else what are the potential issues?

Curious what vets have to say.... no parrots allowed in this conversation.

[NACH3]

More desensitation.... Less is better... It's still a suppressive at the end of the day, and you'll be shut down regardless! It would help with functionality atrophy stimulating the leydig cells and a faster recovery but wiuld not reverse being/getting shut down...

[Bio-Active]

Just because administering hcg maintains some testicular function does not mean it would work as a testosterone replacement. Hcg will raise your testosterone levels but not enough to replace endogenous production

[upperhandy]

If you maintain normal testicular function (like the study shows) then you are producing normal amounts of testosterone.

[Bio-Active]

If you maintain normal testicular function (like the study shows) then you are producing normal amounts of testosterone.

you only maintain some hcg mimics lh only. It dose not replace fsh

[upperhandy]

but look at fig 4
clearly shows ITT levels at normal... demonstrating healthy normal functioning testes

also "All three hCG groups in this study (125, 250, and 500 IU, given every other day) maintained ITT at levels statistically indistinguishable from baseline."

ITT levels are unchanged from baseline while control group (no HCG and almost zero ITT ) is not producing hardly any ITT....

this leads me to believe testes are functioning normally... producing normal amounts....

[Bio-Active]

but look at fig 4 clearly shows ITT levels at normal... demonstrating healthy normal functioning testes also "All three hCG groups in this study (125, 250, and 500 IU, given every other day) maintained ITT at levels statistically indistinguishable from baseline." ITT levels are unchanged from baseline while control group (no HCG and almost zero ITT ) is not producing hardly any ITT.... this leads me to believe testes are functioning normally... producing normal amounts....

most trt patients suffer from testicular dysfunction. The study is not on men suffering from dysfunction

[upperhandy]

That's my point... this would apply to most people on here

if 250IU EOD can keep ITT levels normal then this should correlate with normally functioning testes (i.e. producing normal amounts of endogenous testosterone)

so... if someone were to run an oral with 250IU EOD HCG then this should keep testes functioning normally and they would not need to run exogenous test with it....

no shutdown ... no probs.... just run hcg along with oral then PCT....

at least this is what this study suggest to me.....

I'm just trying to have an educated discussion here....

[upperhandy]

Thanks for chiming in BTW.... I've been thinking about this for a while and have been wanting to get others thoughts about it

[Bio-Active]

You would still need to run Hmg to maintain testicular function and why? If your going to cycle test is the king and you would want to run it as a base anyway. Hcg and Hmg really should be run in addition to maintain testicular function during the administration of exogenous androgens.

[NACH3]

most trt patients suffer from testicular dysfunction. The study is not on men suffering from dysfunction

Good point... This was why I had asked the ? Regarding hCG dosage and people w/testicular dysfunction(primary hypogonadal patients)... Less than a wk ago...

[Bio-Active]

Good point... This was why I had asked the ? Regarding hCG dosage and people w/testicular dysfunction(primary hypogonadal patients)... Less than a wk ago...

they run hcg as part of the protocol just to maintain some testicular function. Though the testies may not be producing enough testosterone to function normally the hcg will help with fertility as well

[NACH3]

they run hcg as part of the protocol just to maintain some testicular function. Though the testies may not be producing enough testosterone to function normally the hcg will help with fertility as well

Exactly! That's what came up... And it's dependent on some certain situations... But for the most part it's still more productive to run the least amount possible so they do not further desensitize, correct?!

[Bio-Active]

Exactly! That's what came up... And it's dependent on some certain situations... But for the most part it's still more productive to run the least amount possible so they do not further desensitize, correct?!

^^^^ yes