Ostarine to save a life. Pleas help

[NTQ]

Dear friends,

I am new here, and I beg you to help. English is not my language, so please excuse me for mistakes. No one will be responsible for giving opinions, don't worry. I am the only responsible, not you, not the forum admins. Just me! ok?

Don't think I am crazy. Not at all.

I am here because my father has Motorneuron Disease (ALS, Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis) and he is in a very bad shape and condition. The story is long and very particular, but I must make it short. We are trying our last chance to save his life, and this very little chance needs TIME. The problem is that I don't know how much time we have, because he is suffering from a severe "cachexia" / muscle wasting, and I am very worried he can die for cachexia (he is totally paralyzed and bedridden). So, to have the time necessary to play that little chance I was saying, we must first of all try to stop (and maybe reverse a bit) the cachexia. If he survives, we can have time to play that little chance.

Here is the key-point: reading scientific documentation, I noticed that medicine is trying to fight cachexia (from cancer, muscular dystrophy, etc) with a medical drug named Enobosarm (Ostarine) and the results are quite good, with no side effects. I know that even curing cachexia, this won't cure motorneuron disease. I am here, in fact, just to try to have your help for cachexia and in particular about Ostarine.

In the clinical trials where Ostarine was given to patiens with different types of cachexia due to different diseases, they gave each patient 3mg Ostarine / day for about 2 months.

I bought on Internet Ostarine capsules 25mg each one. Here some questions:

1) Do you think that 25mg is too much (basing on the fact that in medicine thay gave 3mg in the trials)? I thought to open the capsules and try to divide the powder to make doses of 3mg or maybe a bit more (5? 6?)
2) What do you know about possible side effects? In the clinical trials I read there were no serious side effects.
3) Could ostarine give problem to the heart / cardiovascular?

Any idea, advice?

Thank you, please help, give me your opinions. Don't have fear, I am the only responsible.

[user567]

NTQ,

First let me say i am deeply sorry you are dealing with this. ALS has to be one of the worst diseases on the planet.

Regarding Ostarine, 25mg should be fine especially given your loved ones condition. Most body builders go with 25mg and its shown to be safe (blood work). I would not worry about splitting the pills etc.. The side effects are very minimal and mostly show up post treatment (cycle) in the form of sightly lower testosterone. It is shown to be very safe especially in regards to heart and liver function. I applaud you for doing the research and thinking outside of the box to help your father. I can say i have taken ostarine and done much research on it and from what we know its a safe drug. Truth be told we dont know the long term effects but we are talking many years here which doesnt come in to play with your situation. Good luck and keep us posted on your fathers condition. Definitely interested to see if Ostarine helps.

Dear friends,

I am new here, and I beg you to help. English is not my language, so please excuse me for mistakes. No one will be responsible for giving opinions, don't worry. I am the only responsible, not you, not the forum admins. Just me! ok?

Don't think I am crazy. Not at all.

I am here because my father has Motorneuron Disease (ALS, Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis) and he is in a very bad shape and condition. The story is long and very particular, but I must make it short. We are trying our last chance to save his life, and this very little chance needs TIME. The problem is that I don't know how much time we have, because he is suffering from a severe "cachexia" / muscle wasting, and I am very worried he can die for cachexia (he is totally paralyzed and bedridden). So, to have the time necessary to play that little chance I was saying, we must first of all try to stop (and maybe reverse a bit) the cachexia. If he survives, we can have time to play that little chance.

Here is the key-point: reading scientific documentation, I noticed that medicine is trying to fight cachexia (from cancer, muscular dystrophy, etc) with a medical drug named Enobosarm (Ostarine) and the results are quite good, with no side effects. I know that even curing cachexia, this won't cure motorneuron disease. I am here, in fact, just to try to have your help for cachexia and in particular about Ostarine.

In the clinical trials where Ostarine was given to patiens with different types of cachexia due to different diseases, they gave each patient 3mg Ostarine / day for about 2 months.

I bought on Internet Ostarine capsules 25mg each one. Here some questions:

1) Do you think that 25mg is too much (basing on the fact that in medicine thay gave 3mg in the trials)? I thought to open the capsules and try to divide the powder to make doses of 3mg or maybe a bit more (5? 6?)
2) What do you know about possible side effects? In the clinical trials I read there were no serious side effects.
3) Could ostarine give problem to the heart / cardiovascular?

Any idea, advice?

Thank you, please help, give me your opinions. Don't have fear, I am the only responsible.

[NTQ]

Dear friend,

first of all thanks for your answer. I am happy to receive your help and advices. Ok, I have now the capsules. How many days is a cycle? I start today with 25mg, for how much time?

Are there any raccomendation? Something to avoid? Something to add? Should I add testosterone? (I have a testosterone cream 10%).

Some details about my father
62 years old
disease onset: january 2014
totally disabled and bedridden from july 2015
conditions: can't move anything, severe muscle wasting and weight loss, 1700 calories per day, but his body keeps consuming itself.
weight at disease onset 80 kg, today less than 40 kg
our goal: stop cachexia and maybe reverse it a bit with ostarine, because ostarine is beeing tested in medical trials agains cachexia at 3mg, and the outcomes are that it can help in fighting cachexia and reverse it.

One more question: what's your idea about the medical trial against cachexia: i mean, why do you think they gave just 3mg? I am a bit worried about the 25mg, but don't be scared about giving your opinions. I am the only responsible.

Thanks a lot, really thanks for your help!

[user567]

People will typically cycle 6-8 weeks. . If your really worried about it cut the capsule in 1/2 or purchase 10mg or 12.5 mg online. I would not be worried about it at all though. 25mg is safe and will be fine.

The original human trials were not designed for building muscle, they were designed to prevent muscle wasting and it proved to be successful.

Are you using the testosterone cream with him now?

[NTQ]

People will typically cycle 6-8 weeks. . If your really worried about it cut the capsule in 1/2 or purchase 10mg or 12.5 mg online. I would not be worried about it at all though. 25mg is safe and will be fine.

The original human trials were not designed for building muscle, they were designed to prevent muscle wasting and it proved to be successful.

Are you using the testosterone cream with him now?

Yes, I started about 1 years ago, because on medical trials they found out that:
- low progesterone is associated to faster disease progression. I cheked his progesterone, it was low, with a cream 10% progesterone it increased a lot, that I had to stop giving him the cream every day
- low testosterone seems another negative prognostic factor (I mean: progression of the disease faster), so I gave him also testosterone cream 10%, and the levels were higher.

Then he takes a lot of stuff, Inosine for example, 200mg a day, to raise ATP levels and Uric Acid (another prognostic factor, the more UA is near to the upper value of the range, the more ALS "slows down" its progression). Inosine is also a support for neuron. Obviously I know that this doesn't cure ALS, the goal is to slow down his ALS (that's so severe).

In your opinion, should I suspend progesterone and testosterone cream, with Ostarine? I start today with it, ok, let's start from 25mg a day. The risk is not so much: cachexia is the real risk, so ok for 25mg, and hope that something works.

Thanks a lot my friend!

[Bonaparte]

He could probably get anabolic steroids prescribed, which would work a lot better than ostarine.
But that's only if retaining muscle mass would really help his condition, of which I am doubtful (since cachexia is a side effect of the paralysis, not the cause).

[NTQ]

He could probably get anabolic steroids prescribed, which would work a lot better than ostarine.
But that's only if retaining muscle mass would really help his condition, of which I am doubtful (since cachexia is a side effect of the paralysis, not the cause).

Thanks to everybody!!!! Just started with 25mg a day. Well, I know that ostarine - even in the best option - will not improve the disease itself - so I explained which is the goal. ALS is a disease that affects MOTORneuron, so the muscles don't receive the signals and you can't move, and they become smaller and smaller. And my father is like a skeleton. He has a severe cachexia, and ostarine improved cachexia in medical trials. So the goal with ostarine is to stop weight loss and maybe improve a bit his mass, knowing that without motorneuron he could not move, obviously. But stopping weight loss and maybe reversing a bit the cachexia could be a great goal, to improve the quality of life and make him live more, because cachexia will kill him if we don't stop it. Then, we have a chance to try to help him with the disease itself, but we need time. And to have more time, we must stop cachexia or he will die for it. Hope that ostarine will reach the goal, even if I know it's a hard challenge and it's late. But when you have nothing to lose...... try and hope, without illusion. We know it.

Thanks for your advices my friends. ALS is something terrible. We are suffering like crazy, his mind is "perfect", because just MOTORneurons are affected. Terrible.

Pray for us

[NTQ]

Just to tell you, I started last friday with 25mg. Let's hope that it will work, at least to stop weight loss and maybe reverse cachexia a bit. Enough to survive and play our (little) chance.

Thanks for your support.

[NTQ]

Just a question. Is it good to keep on giving him the testosterone cream, while on Ostarine? Or it is better to stop the cream, and give it in the period when Ostarine is stopped?

Thanks!

[Steroidman99]

Just a question. Is it good to keep on giving him the testosterone cream, while on Ostarine? Or it is better to stop the cream, and give it in the period when Ostarine is stopped?

Thanks!

I don't think that Ostarine is a good choice. It is weak and liver toxic.

[boisebeast]

I don't think that Ostarine is a good choice. It is weak and liver toxic.

I'd be curious to see the bloodwork showing that ostarine is liver toxic if you wouldn't mind sharing? I haven't noticed that in any of the bloodwork I've seen from ostarine only cycles so far

[Ashop]

He could probably get anabolic steroids prescribed, which would work a lot better than ostarine.
But that's only if retaining muscle mass would really help his condition, of which I am doubtful (since cachexia is a side effect of the paralysis, not the cause).

I think OSTARINE is extremely weak. I didn't find it effective at all,,at any dose. I'm betting he could get a script from a doc for some DECA, ANAVAR and /OR TEST.

[NTQ]

Thanks guys, I will post you liver lab tests results as soon as I will have one. I started with Ostarine because it is od medical trial against cachexia and seems to work, at least a bit. Obviously cachexia is a consequence of ALS, so as I explained well my goal is not to heal ALS (ridiculous!), but to stop weight loss and muscle wasting, and in this way have more time.....

But please answer to my question, because I am not expert as much as you. We are doing 6 weeks on 25mg ostarine (last day of 6 weeks will be 31 May 2016). After 6 weeks should I Stop? This is the first question.

If so, this is my second question: will I have to give testosterone after week number 6? Is this correct? In ALS I know that testosterone is usefull, so if ostarine makes testosterone go down, it could be good to add it after stopping ostarine.

Is this correct?

[Simon1972]

sound like you have nothing to lose, keep giving testosterone cream- i can see no ill coming from its use only benefits.

i have used ostarine and experienced nothing. maybe you will find it of benefit but i doubt it especially with such a heavy progression of the disease.

[user567]

I don't think that Ostarine is a good choice. It is weak and liver toxic.

It is not liver toxic. The scientific community is studying SARMs for Cachexia because they have less side effects than anabolic steroids. Sarms will also be less effective than steroids. Unfortunately society and our government has labeled anabolic steroids as toxic and bad for you so this plays in to it as well.


This individual is smart to try Ostarine as well as Testosterone. I have to applaud him for thinking out of the box. Should he have used ligandrol instead? Maybe but this is a conservative proven approach with scientific studies to back it up.

From NIH review on Ostarine

Abstract
Cachexia, and particularly the loss of metabolically active lean tissue, leads to increased morbidity and mortality in affected patients. An impairment of strength and functional status is usually associated with cachexia. A variety of anabolic and appetite-stimulating agents have been studied in patients with cachexia caused by various underlying diseases. Overall, these studies have demonstrated that treatment can increase body weight and/or lean body mass. However, these therapies may have severe side effects, particularly when utilizing testosterone and related anabolic steroids targeting the androgen receptor. These side effects include cardiovascular problems, prostate hyperplasia and cancer in men, as well as virilization in women.

Cachexia is defined as a multidimensional syndrome including ongoing loss of skeletal muscle mass that withstands full reversion by conventional nutritional support leading to progressive functional impairment [1]. The development of cachexia goes through various stages, that is pre-cachexia to cachexia to refractory cachexia and can develop due to many various diseases including cancer, heart and lung diseases, or other diseases ([2–4] for excellent overviews). In the past, many dr^gs were developed with anabolic properties with the intention to “cure” cachectic states but many had limited success and broad unwanted side effects. For instance, the armada of anti-cachectic dr^gs includes appetite stimulants, androgens, and growth factors (see Table 1). Mechanistically, androgen receptor modulators were of particular interest. Testosterone is converted in peripheral tissues by the enzyme 5[alpha]-reductase to 5[alpha]-dihydrotestosterone (DHT). Both testosterone and DHT are able to activate the androgen receptor resulting in an array of anabolic effects on the whole body including heart, liver, bone, and skeletal muscle [5, 6]. Of concern are the increased risks for prostate hyperplasia and cancer in men, virilization in women, and cardiovascular side effects such as cardiac hypertrophy and atherosclerosis. Therefore, non********* selective androgen receptor modulators (SARMs) have been developed with preferential effects on muscle and bone, and less side effects [7].


Currently used anti-cachectic treatments
In the current issue of the Journal of Cachexia, Sarcopenia and Muscle, Dalton and colleagues report a 12-week randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled multicenter trial, where effects of GTx-024 (enobosarm), an orally available non********* SARM with tissue-selective anabolic activity have been tested in 120 healthy elderly men [8]. GTx-024 treatment significantly increased total lean body mass and improved physical function as well as insulin resistance. No increased adverse effects were observed when compared to placebo treatment. This is an exciting trial with numerous implications for future cachexia treatment strategies.

Of importance, the tissue-specific effects were proven by the significant dose-dependent increase in lean body mass and loss of free fat. The increase in muscle mass and decrease in fat may be one explanation for the observed increase in physical strength in GTx-024-treated individuals. The reason why here no dose-dependent effect was seen and only the highest dose (3.0 mg) resulted in significant improvements is not clear, and although the used stair climb power test is useful as a general test for muscle strength, effects on physical activity needs to be measured with broader techniques. In addition, spiroergometric assessment of physical endurance would be helpful to assess GTx-024 effects on endurance.

Several other issues in the current study are worthy to note and to be considered in future trials with this compound. With respect to the patient characteristics, it is not clear why the body mass index (BMI) of the placebo and 0.1, 0.3, and 1.0 mg dose groups was between 24 and 26 kg/m², whereas that of the 3.0 mg dose group, it was considerably less (21.35 kg/m²). As significant improvements, especially for %change in lean body mass and physical activity were only found in the highest 3.0 mg dose group, the differences in baseline BMI may partially contribute to those effects, and therefore, future trials need to balance baseline BMI more carefully.

The effects of GTx-024 on decreased blood glucose and insulin resistance are remarkable and may be beneficial in cachectic patients and diabetes. On the other hand, great care is needed when this drug is co-administered with anti-diabetic dr^gs including oral anti-diabetics and insulin with respect to glucose control.

Although the overall cholesterol/HDL ratio was basically unaffected by GTx-024, the general HDL decrease is still of some concern as this is a proof that there are still (unwanted) side (and not tissue-selective) effects of this novel non-********* selective androgen modulator. Likewise, the increase in overall hemoglobin levels should not be overseen. This may be beneficial in cachectic patients as most suffer from anemia, but the underlying reasons should be further investigated.

Currently, we still wait for clinically accepted and approved therapies for the prevention of and treatment of muscle wasting. This relatively large multicenter clinical trial may be a major breakthrough although still questions about tissue selectivity, side effects, and long-term safety are unanswered. We also do not know whether the effects in healthy elderly men will be seen in the wanted target populations of cachectic patients due to alterations in liver metabolism, kidney function, and so on. However, this compound seems to be a significant milestone in SARM development and, thus, a strong candidate for further clinical studies.

[BuzzardMarinePumper]

Very sorry to know that your father is having health issues I have had many that started in 02 ! But he is very fortunate to have you to do research and do things that the Dr's have over looked ! My vascular surgeon was amazed at my cellulitis imporvements from the use of TB - 500 or Beta 4000 ! Is there some reason that just common Scripted Testosterone would not be scripted for him and also benefit him ? Not even implying the conditions are the same but HIV paciest are given Testosterone for just that reason to prevent muscle lose ?

[Quester]

My understanding of SARMS is that they modulate the receptor making it more sensitive to testosterone, exo- or endo- based. Therefore, if you have normal levels of test you'll benefit. It stands to reason that if you have higher than normal levels, gear enhanced (exo-), it will be even more effective.

My thoughts and prayers are with you and your father.

[NTQ]

Dear Friends, I am here again. Ostarine used for 65 days. Some updates, even if it is difficult to give updates in a person bedridden and totally paralized. He is still in "cachexia", but something maybe is changing. I said maybe. Can't be sure.

1) Everybody hasn't seen my father for months, says he gained some weight. Everybody says it, simply watching. I can't say it for sure, because I see him all day long and can't notice difference. It is also almost impossible to move him and take his weight. But I have this sensation too. When naked, I could count his ribs some months ago. Now no more.

2) Since july 2015 he had two bedsores, that became bigger and bigger month after month. Well, in last weeks they are closing! It is incredible. I don't know if it's ostarine or not, but these 2 bedsores that were growing day after day, now they are dramatically improved! And I can't find an explanation that is not ostarine.


Now just a question. He took ostarine in last 65 days. 25mg a day. Should I stop for some time? How much? Or can I keep giving him? Should I give testosterone cream?

Give me some advices about how going on. Stop for some time and give testosterone? Keep giving ostarine without stopping? Give testosterone together with ostarine? In his disease (ALS), I know that testosterone is usefull (Pubmed), so if you think it is decreased by ostarine, i could stop ostarine for some time and give testosterone cream in that period. Don't know what to do. Please, give me your opinion.

It is intended that I know you are not medical doctors, so your opinions are just personal opinions, and you are not responsible for this! OK?

Thanks a lot guys! Keep pushing in this battle!

[Mr.BB]

Without bloodwork it is hard to give an answer.

Best of luck

[Simon1972]

Continue with both, at this stage in his life i doubt any bad would come of it...if anything we have all benefited health wise from test and a sarm would amplify it.

Blood Tests would be hard to get , not sure if its practicable,considering his condition.

im glad to hear you have some improvement and thanks for giving us and any future readers this feedback.

[NTQ]

Continue with both, at this stage in his life i doubt any bad would come of it...if anything we have all benefited health wise from test and a sarm would amplify it.

Blood Tests would be hard to get , not sure if its practicable,considering his condition.

im glad to hear you have some improvement and thanks for giving us and any future readers this feedback.

I absolutely will post every kind of update, good or bad.

I will try to have the blood test about testosterone. It is not impossible. Meanwhile I will have the test, I will go on with ostarine WITH or WITHOUT testosterone cream? Since when I started ostarine 65 days ago, I stopped testosterone cream. If I understand, you are suggesting to use also testosterone cream while on ostarine. Did I understand right?

Don't worry, I am the only responsible.

[user567]

I absolutely will post every kind of update, good or bad.

I will try to have the blood test about testosterone. It is not impossible. Meanwhile I will have the test, I will go on with ostarine WITH or WITHOUT testosterone cream? Since when I started ostarine 65 days ago, I stopped testosterone cream. If I understand, you are suggesting to use also testosterone cream while on ostarine. Did I understand right?

Don't worry, I am the only responsible.

I would do both. By now his testosterone is starting to get low because of the Ostarine. I would run the Ostarine and testosterone both up to 12 weeks and then stop the Ostarine and continue with Test. Hopefully by then the sores have healed

[Mr.BB]

I absolutely will post every kind of update, good or bad.

I will try to have the blood test about testosterone. It is not impossible. Meanwhile I will have the test, I will go on with ostarine WITH or WITHOUT testosterone cream? Since when I started ostarine 65 days ago, I stopped testosterone cream. If I understand, you are suggesting to use also testosterone cream while on ostarine. Did I understand right?

Don't worry, I am the only responsible.

We are not talking about blood test for testosterone, but for the liver (ALT, AST, GGT, bilirubin, alkaline phosphatase).

Also think you should continue with testosterone gel.

[NTQ]

Dear Friends, in a few days I'll have some tests (liver, blood, and so on) and I will show them to you. I am keeping in giving him Ostarine 25mg.


Now, after some months, I can say there is a result. Yes, the disease is still there - obviously - but I really think I can say we stopped cachexia and maybe reversed it a bit. My father is in a condition (bedridden) that is also difficult to take his weight. But...

- everybody that comes to see him says "wow, did he gain weight?". Now EVERY single person that comes to see him says this.
- I have some pictures of his face 4 month ago. Well, it's clear that he is less "a skeleton", less than before. His face was like a skull, now the difference can be seen clearly. I repeat: clearly.
- bed-sores: worsening in last 12 months, but since 2 or 3 month they are incredibly improving, a bit every day, and that's not common.

I have to say that I added to Ostarine a lot of stuff that can help his metabolism, his absorbtion, "turning-off" some pathways tipical of the cachectic state.

He is not recovered - it's clear - he is at risk every day. But today I can say that his life has been prolonged, his survival-time improved. It's great, after month, to share this with you all. Thanks a lot my friend. Now that cachexia is stopped (and I could say even a bit reversed, and that's a miracle because a cachexia of a cronic illness can't improve!), we can go on pushing against his disease (ALS). I know it is impossible.
But I'll try to do my best, without illusions, I perfectly know what Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis is. But I also knew that cachexia is almost impossible to stop, when due not to malnutrition but to a "metabolic cachexia" induced by a tremendous disease. Almost impossible to stop/reverse... yes, almost! :-)

So, Keep Fighting. And I will keep you updated! Thanks guys. Thanks, thanks, thanks!

[NTQ]

Dear Friends, I have the blood test results about my father. Everything seems good...but:

AST and ALT are ok, in the middle of the normal range. GammaGT are 159, the upper limit is 60. So they are increased a lot. Then UREA is over the limit, limit is 50, he has 77.

What do you suggest? Are gamma GT increased for Ostarine? Could be a good idea to suspend ostarine for some weeks (even if it seems really working against cachexia)?

[Bonaparte]

Yeah, it could be from liver strain. Is he taking NAC? I'd do 2g daily.
And why aren't you just going with testosterone or even Anavar or Anadrol instead of messing around with ostarine?

[Steroidman99]

Dear Friends, I have the blood test results about my father. Everything seems good...but:

AST and ALT are ok, in the middle of the normal range. GammaGT are 159, the upper limit is 60. So they are increased a lot. Then UREA is over the limit, limit is 50, he has 77.

What do you suggest? Are gamma GT increased for Ostarine? Could be a good idea to suspend ostarine for some weeks (even if it seems really working against cachexia)?

I told you that Ostarine is liver toxic. But some people on this forum don't want to listen and they parrot misleading information from the internet. Remember that Ostarine was tested in doses around 3 mg daily. The bodybuilding doses are 15-25 mg daily.

It is really not easy to give you advice. My uncle also suffered from ALS. He refused my recommendations - such as using steroids, SARMs or L-serine. The disease progressed very quickly and he died in 2014.

Only few people are so "lucky" like Stephen Hawking, but there are some internet anecdotes that the disease stopped progressing, when people started to use steroids.

But what steroids could be used long-term without serious side effects?

Anavar is generally mild, liver toxicity is mostly not a serious issue, but it will mess up your cholesterol terribly. So it is only a matter of time, before you die from a heart attack (although the time can certainly be much longer than the time that you have with ALS). Other oral steroids are much harsher and are out of question - except Primobolan, which is very expensive.

Nandrolone can also have some risks (kidney), but when used in moderate doses, it won't affect the liver and it shouldn't mess up your cholesterol much. But your father won't feel well because of the dramatic testosterone suppression. So a mild dose of nandrolone+a mild dose of testosterone would probably be the best compromise.

Then, you have Andarine (S4) - which is another SARM, with a tremendeous effect on energy stores and well being. It does not affect cholesterol and the liver (at least not as much as Ostarine and oral steroids), and its effect on testosterone suppression is rather mild as well. But it has the ocular side effects, which can be unpleasant after a while.

To sum it up, if I were in the place of your father, I would choose the nandrolone+testosterone combination. It can be injected once-twice monthly, so the dosage wouldn't be a serious problem.

[Juced_porkchop]

Just a question. Is it good to keep on giving him the testosterone cream, while on Ostarine? Or it is better to stop the cream, and give it in the period when Ostarine is stopped?

Thanks!

I would keep up with the creams IMO, will only help the muscle loss, health and mood IMO.

[Juced_porkchop]

what I would do is get a doc to give you script for steroids that may help. osta is MILDLY liver toxic but still impacts the liver, and it causes shutdown in testosterone production (mild but still) so test cream is good to keep up on.
i would see if you can get primo if covered. or deca even. something non liver toxic for longerterm use while dealing with this issue.