Lower normal range still too high for TRT, Looking for ways to drop into lower range

[BoredIRL]

So I have been trying to get TRT since 2009 and have had testicle issues since about age 16, 33 now.
I've had issues since I was a child and sustained an injury when a woman pulled and twisted my left testicle at age 9.
Since then I have had repeat episodes of epididymitis and chronic left testicle pain persistent through a nerve block.
I have also had several ultra sounds of my left testicle showing calcium in my left nut. My test blood work has come back fairly low
numerous times but still in the low range of normal so I have yet to qualify for TRT, even when I was only 15 points above the baseline normal range.
I'm desperate for TRT and have been considering doing a cycle of a mixed steroid consisting of (400mg/ml) Testosterone Cypionate (200mg) + Nandrolone Decanoate (200mg),
Without PCT to purposely cause a lower range of whole and free test. I'm not sure how long I would do this cycle, or how long to wait after the cycle to get tested.
Another option I have considered would ideally be to have the left testicle removed and hope my natural testosterone level would drop due to having one testicle.
But I'm not so certain my doctor will be willing to work with me on getting that done. I would hope it should be pretty straight forward of a request
seeing how there is calcium and chronic pain. Then again I'm not sure that I need to take it that far because I haven't had my T levels checked in a few years,
and testosterone naturally drops with age and I'm in my 30's now. I might get lucky and naturally be in a low enough range to qualify for TRT as it is.
What I think would be best is to have my regular doctor refer me to a urologist and get my blood work done there to start. Sorry I wrote so much, and thank you for reading this.
Any tips and info you can provide is appreciated. I'm also type 2 diabetic with high blood pressure and as of April last year I was in congestive heart failure. My heart was only working at 10%.
Now my heart function is at 50% and I don't need a pace maker. I was told 50% - 60% heart function is normal so 50% for me is pretty good. I actually drove myself to the hospital
during CHF thinking I was simply having breathing issues due to a penicillin reaction. And I have done a couple steroid cycles starting with a cycle of test e can't remember the dose but 1ml once a week for 12 weeks with PCT, I've done a cycle of andropen 275 1ml a week for 12 weeks with anti estrogen and PCT. I have mental health issues mostly depression and lack of eye contact. Whenever I have used steroids all my conditions improved even social interaction as if it improved confidence. Other supplements that have helped even with my diabetes is T-bomb-II. I had blood work done once while taking T-Bomb-II and it got me in the 600 range, but I think something has changed with their ingredients since back then.

[Simon1972]

1st things first. Get blood Work, with your testicle issues you would be well placed seeing a urologist. Removing your testicle is extreme, but if its causing you pain and not contributing to your testosterone, well that's a question for you and your Dr. Chose wisely.

You can sometimes get on trt privately if your Dr is inclined. But of course not on the public system unless you're below range.

Get blood Work and post back here. Don't mention your past cycles to your Dr.

[BoredIRL]

Thanks for the reply, I agree its got to be best to get tested again before anything else. My next Dr appointment is next month on the 20th and I will ask to be refereed to a urologist which is probably where I will get my blood work done. I've been to the local urologist in the past and I do recall they said if I wanted TRT treatment with them then the labs have to be done through their office. I'm not sure if I should just go ahead and ask my regular Dr to run test labs. Either one could write a prescription and I'm fine either way but I would assume the urologist would be more knowledgeable so I would prefer to get back in touch with the urologist. I'm not even 100% sure that I have to be referred, maybe I can just walk in without a referral and save some time. Anyway it might be a while before I can get labs done whichever office I get it done at. But when I do I'll certainly post the results here.

[Simon1972]

Mate, please come back and let the boys have a look at your labs. Even if you do get your gp to check first. It can take a while , but your health is intimately worth it. ...persevere.

[MonarchX]

So I have been trying to get TRT since 2009 and have had testicle issues since about age 16, 33 now.
I've had issues since I was a child and sustained an injury when a woman pulled and twisted my left testicle at age 9.
Since then I have had repeat episodes of epididymitis and chronic left testicle pain persistent through a nerve block.
I have also had several ultra sounds of my left testicle showing calcium in my left nut. My test blood work has come back fairly low
numerous times but still in the low range of normal so I have yet to qualify for TRT, even when I was only 15 points above the baseline normal range.
I'm desperate for TRT and have been considering doing a cycle of a mixed steroid consisting of (400mg/ml) Testosterone Cypionate (200mg) + Nandrolone Decanoate (200mg),
Without PCT to purposely cause a lower range of whole and free test. I'm not sure how long I would do this cycle, or how long to wait after the cycle to get tested.
Another option I have considered would ideally be to have the left testicle removed and hope my natural testosterone level would drop due to having one testicle.
But I'm not so certain my doctor will be willing to work with me on getting that done. I would hope it should be pretty straight forward of a request
seeing how there is calcium and chronic pain. Then again I'm not sure that I need to take it that far because I haven't had my T levels checked in a few years,
and testosterone naturally drops with age and I'm in my 30's now. I might get lucky and naturally be in a low enough range to qualify for TRT as it is.
What I think would be best is to have my regular doctor refer me to a urologist and get my blood work done there to start. Sorry I wrote so much, and thank you for reading this.
Any tips and info you can provide is appreciated. I'm also type 2 diabetic with high blood pressure and as of April last year I was in congestive heart failure. My heart was only working at 10%.
Now my heart function is at 50% and I don't need a pace maker. I was told 50% - 60% heart function is normal so 50% for me is pretty good. I actually drove myself to the hospital
during CHF thinking I was simply having breathing issues due to a penicillin reaction. And I have done a couple steroid cycles starting with a cycle of test e can't remember the dose but 1ml once a week for 12 weeks with PCT, I've done a cycle of andropen 275 1ml a week for 12 weeks with anti estrogen and PCT. I have mental health issues mostly depression and lack of eye contact. Whenever I have used steroids all my conditions improved even social interaction as if it improved confidence. Other supplements that have helped even with my diabetes is T-bomb-II. I had blood work done once while taking T-Bomb-II and it got me in the 600 range, but I think something has changed with their ingredients since back then.

First of all, demand a referral to an endocrinologist and a more liberal one, not one who only cares for patients to be within range even on the low side. I had one like that and he was stupid. I got another endocrinologist and he got me from 250ng/dL to 740ng/dL on Clomiphene because Axiron under-arm testosterone made things worse. Later he added anastrozole to reduce testosterone-to-estrogen aromatization.

I can very much relate and sympathize because I was diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder, Fibromyalgia, anxieties, unknown back pain, ADHD, etc.. Bipolar Disorder symptoms mimic hypogonadism symptoms. After Clomiphene, ALL my symptoms were reduced by 95% and Bipolar Disorder was declared a MIS-diagnosis. Low T and high E2 were the causes of ALL my problems.

Have you tried Clomiphene by itself? For some people it does wonders. However, my testes were not damaged like yours, but I did have mumps and one idiot did semi-punched me in the nuts, but nothing bad came out of it. With damaged balls, Clomiphene may or may not help...

I hope the woman who twisted your testicle died slowly and painfully without any visitors, suffering all the way through, begging to be euthanized in a very conservative hospital where doctors and nurses believe in fighting until the last breath... She possibly ruined your life! I do hope it was not your mother or sister or someone you care about, in which case I apologize for hoping that woman will suffer...

[BoredIRL]

The only reason I got a new doctor is because I was accused of threatening my last one. I asked him if he would want someone to rip his nuts off, and went on to explain that I've lived through that and I doubt he would like it. and I was begging for better health care or at least an explanation as to why I'm not getting TRT or help with the pain. But he couldn't just leave it at that, a rude and sarcastic question about ripping his nuts off. Instead he called the cops and lied to the police and told them that I threatened to shoot him in the head. So they came looking for guns which I had for hunting but I wasn't supposed to have them for another 6 months to go on a 5 year firearms ban from when I previously got hospitalized for evaluation. I was at the state hospital for 6 days and they took my guns. Two weeks after I was released they came back to arrest me for felony criminal threats and felony illegal possession of a firearm. To make things worse I got in a bit of a fight with the two sheriffs that came to serve the warrant. When I opened my bedroom door and saw them I asked why are you here? The one serving the warrant said we are here for a $150,000 warrant for your arrest. I then asked what is the warrant for? and he yelled at me FOR YOUR ARREST! So I said go fuck yourself and slammed the door in his face. I could go on about a whole bunch of stuff that went down after that but to make it short I'll just say the two of them were bleeding by the time I was in the back of the squad car. This was also another felony added to my list of charges, felony resisting arrest with force and violence. My family ended up paying $10,000 for an attorney, who got the resisting arrest reduced to misdemeanor interfering with arrest. The felony criminal threats was thrown out completely because I absolutely never threatened to shoot anybody. The one charge that stuck was illegal possession (mental health with a gun), and for this I got 6 months in jail and I took a plea bargain for three years probation instead of going to prison. All I wanted was a good explanation with compassion why I am being denied TRT or help with the pain.

[BoredIRL]

Here is a screen shot of what was actually sent to my doctor while I was begging for better health care.
This is what was sent when he turned around and lied to the police telling them I threatened to shoot him in the head.

[BoredIRL]

The woman who pulled and twisted my testicle went on to kill herself a few years back. She walked into a crowd of people and shot herself in the chest. It was a friends mother.
I've used clomid for PCT but I'm not sure that it was even legit. My last doctor was an idiot, he claims there is no testosterone in steroids. I've only really gotten to deal with the idiots at
a local clinic since 2009. I did get referred to a endocrinologist and a urologist but my doctors always sent notes about my condition so both the urologist and endocrinologist repeated
the same things as my regular doctors in the past word for word. I recently got a new doctor though and so far we have only talked about my diabetes. I'm hopeful about a new referral to
the urologist.

[BoredIRL]

It was dictated to me several times in the state hospital that it was a threat to shoot him in the head and then dictated several more times in court that it was a felony criminal threat to commit great bodily injury that would result in death. I feel like he should have been prosecuted for lying to police and I ought to sue him too if I could afford it.

[Mr.BB]

Doctors will be unwilling to give you testosterone due to your heart problems, with probably good reasons as it will stress your circulatory system even further.
Adding diabetes and other problems it will just get even harder.

Your low test might even due to the amount of drugs you are probably currently on.

Also, have to say that with your attitude problem you will never get prescribed something like testosterone.

[BoredIRL]

Here is the test results from back in 2008, I thought I first got tested in 2009 but I guess it was earlier than that.
Even at 258 I'm too high for TRT. I hope now that some years have gone by I should naturally be lower.
This test was the first time I was ever tested and this is before any cycles or test supplements.
I have been trying to get TRT for a number of years now. Sorry if you think I have an attitude problem but
really its a problem with the doctors that I was getting fed up with. My attitude actually greatly improves while on cycle.

[Mr.BB]

Any more pages? Wheres free T, lh, fsh, etc?

What medication were you on?

[BoredIRL]

Now I take 80mg Latuda and 100mg Trazodone.
I'll post my latest blood work as soon as I get it but I have the better part of a month to go till my next appointment so it will be a little while still.

[BoredIRL]

The heart has recovered. I don't need a pace maker and I take meds that make my heart beat slower and pump harder, Carvedilol 12.5mg twice a day.
the last ultra sound of my heart showed that I'm at 50% heart function now and I was told 50% - 60% is normal. I only see my cardiologist every 6 months now.
I actually dug up the first testicle ultra sound results from around the same time as that old blood work. I was never given a copy of the latest testicle ultra sound results but I know
it said the calcium is still there in the left testicle, that's all it showed the past two ultra sounds. My last doctor said there was nothing to worry about because
it hasn't changed and shrugged it off not even acknowledging the issues with pain. I disagree with some of whats said in that ultra sound report such as the pain has always been left sided not the right like the report says. Also this old ultra sound says there is a calcium pearl on the scrotal wall but the last three ultra sounds I've had show calcium in the left testicle.

Ahh sorry I misread what you asked about the heart problem yes the heart problem was years after the blood work. They said it was a virus to the hear due to a cold or some infection that my body couldn't fight off very well right away and when my body made anti bodies to fight the infection the protein layer around the infection is so close to the protein layer of the heart that my body was attacking the heart too. this caused an enlarged heart and I had water on the heart and lungs. I'm much better now. I was put in the hospital last year on April 1st. My mother thought it was an April fools joke.

[BoredIRL]

The heart has recovered. I don't need a pace maker and I take meds that make my heart beat slower and pump harder, Carvedilol 12.5mg twice a day.
the last ultra sound of my heart showed that I'm at 50% heart function now and I was told 50% - 60% is normal. I only see my cardiologist every 6 months now.
I actually dug up the first testicle ultra sound results from around the same time as that old blood work. I was never given a copy of the latest testicle ultra sound results but I know
it said the calcium is still there in the left testicle, that's all it showed the past two ultra sounds. My last doctor said there was nothing to worry about because
it hasn't changed and shrugged it off not even acknowledging the issues with pain. I disagree with some of whats said in that ultra sound report such as the pain has always been left sided not the right like the report says. Also this old ultra sound says there is a calcium pearl on the scrotal wall but the last three ultra sounds I've had show calcium in the left testicle.

Ahh sorry I misread what you asked about the heart problem yes the heart problem was years after the blood work. They said it was a virus to the hear due to a cold or some infection that my body couldn't fight off very well right away and when my body made anti bodies to fight the infection the protein layer around the infection is so close to the protein layer of the heart that my body was attacking the heart too. this caused an enlarged heart and I had water on the heart and lungs. I'm much better now. I was put in the hospital last year on April 1st. My mother thought it was an April fools joke.

So I know this ultra sound is years old now, and I don't have the issue with hydroceles anymore, to my knowledge. But is that something that should have been addressed?
I'm not 100% sure what that was, I just read something about a fluid sack around the testes. Seems like they should have done something about it back then.
I'm not sure what would cause this type of issue, or how long it was there.

[BoredIRL]

All I've ever been tested for is total and free T. At the time back in 2008 I wasn't on any medication.

[Mr.BB]

All I've ever been tested for is total and free T. At the time back in 2008 I wasn't on any medication.

You should have changed doctors then. Thats very incomplete bloodwork, any half decent doc would have tested lh and fsh at least. With that low value he should have followed more bloodwork prolactin to rule out pituitary tumors, and full thyroid panel to rule out thyroid. Also ultrascans would have followed.
Pretty standand practice by any endo or urolugist.

So your heart problems were after this bw?

[BoredIRL]

You should have changed doctors then. Thats very incomplete bloodwork, any half decent doc would have tested lh and fsh at least. With that low value he should have followed more bloodwork prolactin to rule out pituitary tumors, and full thyroid panel to rule out thyroid. Also ultrascans would have followed.
Pretty standand practice by any endo or urolugist.

So your heart problems were after this bw?

I've never had my T level check since the heart issue.
I requested my labs so that should speed things up.
If my doctor okays the labs then I should get it done in the next couple weeks.
Might have to wait for results though unless I can get them online.

[Mr.BB]

I've never had my T level check since the heart issue.
I requested my labs so that should speed things up.
If my doctor okays the labs then I should get it done in the next couple weeks.
Might have to wait for results though unless I can get them online.

Why your doctor needs to okay the labs, you can go to a lab and test whatever labs you want. Is it because of insurance? (im not in US so dont really understand your system)

You need an urologist/andrologist. A family doctor will not be of much help.

Like I said before if you had low T labs with low T symptoms, you should have done a number of test to rule diseases that cause low T. And then given treatment (gel or T shots) if it was diagnostic as idiopathic low T.

You should not be "desperate" for TRT, but you should be looking to get a proper diagnostic and improve your symptoms. What are the symptoms you suffer?

[BoredIRL]

Bump^ I edited my last post a few times, not sure if you have read what I added, or only seen how I originally posted it.

[BoredIRL]

The only things they have ever done for my testicle issues is antibiotics and a nerve block to the left testicle which didn't help. I really just want it removed but they won't work with me on that so far.

[BoredIRL]

I'm not sure if this helps with anything but here is a list of my current meds.
I could also go back on lasix and potassium if I need/want to. But I haven't had any issues with water retention since my heart recovered.

Aspirin 81mg morning
Atorvastatin 20mg morning, cholesterol
Lisinopril 10mg morning, blood pressure
Glimepiride 8mg morning, diabetes

Carvedilol 12.5mg twice a day, heart

Trazodone 100mg night, sleep
Latuda 80mg night, anti depressant

[BoredIRL]

I just sent my PCP a message through their patient portal. So far I like my new doctor so I'm being nice.
Hopefully they work with me better than the last clinic. Is there anything else I should request to have tested?
Here is what I sent.

The last time I saw **** I was supposed to be given labs that I was told to get done two weeks before my next appointment (June 20th).
I'm not certain that I got the lab papers to take in. It appears all I have is a couple copies of my last lab results. I may have lost the lab request if I was in fact given labs. In addition to the labs **** requested I would also like to request to be tested for Total Testosterone, Free Testosterone, Luteinizing hormone, and Follicle-stimulating hormone. I want to request these additional test because in the past I have had a lower range of testosterone and I want to know where my levels are currently. I haven't brought it up yet with **** but I have also had several ultra sounds of my left testicle and the past two or three times I have had this done the results have shown calcium in my left testicle. I have also had a nerve block to the left testicle but pain has been persistent. I would like to be refereed to a urologist to discuss possibly having my left testicle removed due to the calcium and associated pain. Please let me know about the labs so I can get that done in the next couple weeks or so. Thank You.
If you need a copy of those ultra sound results I got it done at *************. But I don't have a copy of the most recent results.

[BoredIRL]

I'm feeling like I should have been requesting to be tested more over the years.
Is that all I need for TRT is to test in the low out of normal range one time and I get TRT?

[BoredIRL]

I'm on disabilities so i have a fixed income about $900 a month. If I go through my doctor the insurance will pay for my blood work.
I am however considering to start getting tested on my own and just paying for it if my doctor will only test total and free T.
My new doctor is actually a nurse practitioner.
I don't know that I can recall all the symptoms of low T but I've read about the symptoms in the past and have nearly all of them.
The symptoms that come to mind are fatigue, depression, lack of drive or motivation, loss of muscle, increase in body fat, low sex drive, issues with sleep.
I know there's more than that but I can't think of everything right now. It affects my diabetes too. When I have taken a testosterone booster in the past
I had my A1C checked and I was in a range better than non diabetic. I even read an article that a high percentage of diabetic men have low T.
The article said that diabetic men with low T when given testosterone they only needed to take half as much insulin.
Aside from symptoms I know which things improve when I have been on cycle. I walk more upright with confidence, and can look people in the eye, which I usually don't.
I get a better feeling of well being. Less muscle aches. I even eat less, as if it is an appetite suppressant for me. I have some issues with my skin that improve while on cycle,
even with just a testosterone booster (T-bomb-II). I believe even my vision improves slightly. More interest in females, I actually notice them. Less to near no depression.
Less testicle pain. And a number of other things improve as well.

[BoredIRL]

Today is the day for my appointment with my doctor, so I will discuss my issues with my new doctor and try to request labs and get a referral to the urologist.

[BoredIRL]

Lame, my doctor want's me to wait till my next labs are due for my new labs.
I won't be getting tested till September, and only for total Testosterone.
She said that the rest of the things I wanted to get tested for, they won't test for unless my total Testosterone is low.

[IncreaseMyT]

OMG that is ridiculous!!! Same story "go to endo" endo says "stop everything test in 3 months"

"hey here is some depression meds while you wait"

Geez I wonder what lab would be ? Of course the guys HPTA is crushed because they just pulled the rug out from underneath him. This is downright dangerous. *rant over*

You need a thorough lab work up. We can help you if you need it.

[BoredIRL]

I just got my labs done Friday.
I should have the results soon.
I should get the results online before my next appointment.
If not my next appointment is on the 12th.
I was planning to get labs done on Monday, but there is the holiday.

[JKW]

Anxious to see the labs. Hang in there!

[BoredIRL]

https://postimg.org/image/6fyzil4bh/

[BoredIRL]

IE won't let me do it either but I can post a link where I uploaded the pic.

[BoredIRL]

I wish my doctor would have listened and tested me for everything I told them to.
I was told they would test the total first and if that was low they would test more.
I'm not sure where I go from here, if I have to get tested once or twice more or what.

[Simon1972]

boredIRL, i wasnt going to post, since you have had numerous guys give you the same advice , so far 71 posts and counting.

You can dr shop all you want, they will all eventually grow tired of you and want to handball you to someone else eventually- until you take control of your own health and become the driver and not the passenger.


if you are serious about your diabetes, stop asking too much of your pancreas, eliminate insulin spike. by following the directions below.

drop your carbs, eat meats, eat cheese, eat vegetables.
dont eat bread, rice or grains.

do this as much as you can, when you fail, don't give up, get back on again at the next meal.

use your brain, stop using your emotions to run your life.

your health- your call.

[Mr.BB]

You can dr shop all you want, they will all eventually grow tired of you and want to handball you to someone else eventually- until you take control of your own health and become the driver and not the passenger.

if you are serious about your diabetes, stop asking too much of your pancreas, eliminate insulin spike. by following the directions below.

drop your carbs, eat meats, eat cheese, eat vegetables.
dont eat bread, rice or grains.

do this as much as you can, when you fail, don't give up, get back on again at the next meal.

use your brain, stop using your emotions to run your life.

your health- your call.

Simon, you are right about most of your advices to OP, but you should really update your nutrition knowledge:

[Simon1972]

Simon, you are right about most of your advices to OP, but you should really update your nutrition knowledge:

i knew this would happen again...lol, theres alot more to the story than just insulin secretion, we need the fats for energy , carbs are not the source the Op needs to invest his time in eating. hence the diabetes epidemic hitting the western world.
He can do what he has always done and end up with the same result or try something i ( and alot of others) found works.

If he wants to fast track Ketosis, than fast track it- or focus on eating carbs and become disillusioned.

Taking a statistic on Area under curve doesnt give the complete story.

[BoredIRL]

Well, I tested low this time, and I didn't even cheat because I never got any responses on how to lower my testosterone level.
The only thing I think may have attributed to it being a true low this time is that for one I'm older and the range drops with age.
Secondly I took up dipping tobacco back in November, and I've read this can lower testosterone. No idea if that's even true.
But I'm in the range I've been looking to get for a while now. Just wondering whats next. Hope I can test in the same range if I need
to get tested again for TRT. I came in at 225, when they say 250-827 being normal. Trying to figure out how to upload a pic now.
Most of my other lab results look really bad too my A1C is 11.1 Goin to try loading a pic on IE, Firefox doesn't want to let me do it.

[BoredIRL]

I got it to work this time. Figured out what was wrong too.
I had to change the file to .jpg

[BoredIRL]

I also hope if they do say I need more blood work I just hope they don't tell me to wait another
three months or some ridiculous amount of time before getting tested again.

[charger69]

Probably tell you 6 weeks. Holy cats! Your triglycerides are through the roof. Meat and potatoes type person?