HRT in Drug Tested Sports

[wolpertinger]

Hello,

I am new to testosterone and this site! Debated posting in Hormone Replacement Therapy, in Over 40, Blood Testing... Ended up posting here, please let me know if this is not the right place!

Okay, so I'm a female, in my 40s, and just found out I have very low testosterone (<20 ng/dL total testosterone, and 0.2 ng/dL free, to be specific). This is not good for several reasons, but especially because I lift weights competitively, and obviously I have a disadvantage here. I started HRT about ten days ago. I get weekly injections of nandrolone decanoate (1ml from the vial but not sure how many mg) and every other day testosterone proprionate (50mg), based on advice from my coach and the doctor.

I don't really like the injections as they are somewhat cumbersome and also give me very sensitive bruises for several days. So I am thinking of switching to a topical called AndroFeme® 1% Testosterone Cream. I can order it online and don't even need a prescription, which makes this all very hassle-free, just how I like it. I can't post a link to it yet since I'm new, but it is very easy to find online if you want to look it up.

Now it occurred to me that I might want to do a drug-tested lifting competition at the end of 2017, and nandrolone decanoate stays in the system for up to 18 months. I am only 12 months away. Is it possible that I will pass this drug test if I had only 2 injections? I weigh 180 lbs., if that makes a difference.

Also, I assume the AndroFeme topical shows up in a urine test even though it is "bioidentical"? I may run a urinalysis a week or two before the competition, just to make sure I'm OK before I fly cross-country and spend a bunch of money for nothing. But I wanted to see what you all think since I have 0% experience with it.

This is all the information I have on the drug test: "Our drug tested competitions use urine for testing. We conduct testing for a basic steroid panel test as well as for diuretics and sometime stimulants. If a lifter comes up positive on the Urinalysis then they have failed." There are no exceptions for HRT. I don't intend on getting levels above average, I just want my testosterone to fall into the acceptable range on a lab test. But I think if I stopped this topical a week or two out, I would be OK? From what I can tell, they like to test the winners, and I do plan on winning, so I would only want to participate in this competition if I had a chance of passing the test.

Any advice appreciated!

Best,
Wolpi

[hammerheart]

Edit - missed the female part

[Mr.BB]

Sorry, I never heard of nandrolone being on HRT for men or women, and 1ml per week is not proper procedure. Also Testosterone 50md EOD on a female will give you a lot of virilization, are you sure this was prescribed by a doctor of medicine???

Sorry, it sounds all very sketchy. Do you know the side effects of females taking androgenic steroids? Haven't your coached explained what can happen?

Are you taking any estradiol / progesterone drugs together with this?

Nandrolone metabolites can be found in urine for up to 18 months after intra-muscular injection, it will be a losing gamble to enter a tested competition in 12 months, unless a masking agent can be used.

Unless you are trying to have a sex change I suggest analyse very thoroughly your next steps. The testosterone cream you mentioned is the correct way of doing HRT, what you coach/doc are doing is a steroids cycle.

[wolpertinger]

Hmmm. I'll have to look into this again. Maybe I'm mixing up numbers. But, for what it's worth, my estrogen came back normal, and progesterone was low so I'm using an OTC topical for it. I'm getting another injection tomorrow so I will ask then what my exact dosage is. I guess I'm screwed for the competition though. I was hoping since I had done only 2 injections so far, I might have a chance of it cleaning out in time. Would one of those "steroid cleanse" products help, or is that all snake oil?

[songdog]

Well something dont sound right here.

[wolpertinger]

Alright, I got some more info. It is 50mg of testosterone proprionate every other day. The doctor initially suggested cypionate 1x/week, but my coach said she wanted me to feel better faster, so they settled on proprionate every other day (because of the shorter half life). The nandrolone is 150mg 1x/week. This was not the doctor's idea; my coach suggested it because it helps with joints, is generally well-tolerated, etc. I think the idea with the nandrolone was that hey, if I'm already taking something, might as well add this other thing that helps with a problem area of mine.

So what you are saying is I have been tricked into a steroid cycle.

I find it hard to get good info on this. The internet is full of crap, and apparently doctors don't know what they're doing, either. I'm glad I stumbled upon this site. Is it OK for me to quit both products on the spot, or do I need to ease my way out of it? I've only had the 2 nandrolone injections and 3 testosterone injections. I don't have the topical yet, it should arrive in 5 -15 days and takes about 2 weeks to reach a steady level.

Thanks for all your help, guys & gals.

[tarmyg]

These dosages sound completely crazy for a female. I would not listen to that coach and I would find another doctor. You are going to experience some serious bodily changes that are most likely unwanted.

[wolpertinger]

Gulp. OK thanks, I'm convinced. I don't need to grow a micropenis. I will stop everything right away.

[Mr.BB]

These dosages sound completely crazy for a female. I would not listen to that coach and I would find another doctor. You are going to experience some serious bodily changes that are most likely unwanted.

^^^ This.

175mgs of testosterone per week is a TRT dosage for men. That means you will turn into a men for sure, it is the dosage they give to transsexuals.

Nandrolone will just make it worse.

You probably have already start to feel symptoms like clit swelling and itching, breast reduction, extra body hair.
With time your voice will change tone, and most of the above sides will turn permanent.

Just stop, you can take some estradiol pills to help stop the virilization. Theres another anti-androgen drug that I cant remember the name right now.

[wolpertinger]

Yep, clit swelling and itching, that's a good description. I think my voice may be lower, but I also feel a little hoarse, so maybe this is just a cold. Nothing else yet (phew). Would you recommend the estradiol pills, or could I ride this out and it just takes a bit longer to go away? At this point I'm hesitant just to take anything :-/

[ryobi1]

Alright, I got some more info. It is 50mg of testosterone proprionate every other day. The doctor initially suggested cypionate 1x/week, but my coach said she wanted me to feel better faster, so they settled on proprionate every other day (because of the shorter half life). The nandrolone is 150mg 1x/week. This was not the doctor's idea; my coach suggested it because it helps with joints, is generally well-tolerated, etc. I think the idea with the nandrolone was that hey, if I'm already taking something, might as well add this other thing that helps with a problem area of mine.

So what you are saying is I have been tricked into a steroid cycle.

I find it hard to get good info on this. The internet is full of crap, and apparently doctors don't know what they're doing, either. I'm glad I stumbled upon this site. Is it OK for me to quit both products on the spot, or do I need to ease my way out of it? I've only had the 2 nandrolone injections and 3 testosterone injections. I don't have the topical yet, it should arrive in 5 -15 days and takes about 2 weeks to reach a steady level.

Thanks for all your help, guys & gals.

does your "coach" know you are preparing for a show in a year?
cant believe she/he would prescribe nandrolone with a 18 month
clearing time frame...your show is a no go. you need a new coach.
your test dosage is higher than most mens. there should be no doubt
you are feeling sides. your doctor should be ordering bw to know
your levels.
would like to know the dosage you were gonna be prescribed for
cyp per week.
hopefully you stopped in time to reverse any sides.

[wolpertinger]

Hi ryobi1, the competition in a year may or may not be drug-tested, I'm not sure. I think there will be both options (details not available yet), but I would like to do the tested version since, well, since I wasn't planning to be on steroids. Up until about a month ago I was very naive and believed that people competing in drug-tested events would actually be completely clean 100% of the time, save for some very few exceptions such as Lance Armstrong. I have always competed in untested events, and I'm doing alright, but I'm also old and started late in life, so naturally I won't be as good as someone who has been doing this for 10 or 20 years already. But now there may be an option to do a drug-tested event in a year, and even with what I know now, at least it will weed out those who are very obviously on steroids. I haven't really talked about it with my coach, so I don't blame him for this. But still, I'm a little bummed.

I'm not sure what doctor I want to see, if any. My gynecologist is clueless and said I only need progesterone, and women don't need testosterone. Some hormone clinic I found wanted to re-run all the bloodwork again because they don't accept outside test results, and they were a little woo-woo on their website with their bioidentical products (sold in-house, also a bit sketchy).

I had a brief consultation with an endocrinologist who wasn't sure what to do with women and testosterone.

I finally and reluctantly went to the sports medicine doctor my coach recommended. I know that my coach would lay it on pretty heavy with the steroids, because we have different ideas of what constitutes "healthy". That's why I wanted to discuss it with a medical professional. When we met, he agreed that my coach was a bit over the top, which assured me that he would prescribe something reasonable. He suggested 50mg cypionate 1x/week.

This all got a bit expensive. At this point, I just want to get on the topical, and have some bloodwork done further down the line, maybe after being on the topical for a couple months. I know I can go to the sports medicine doctor and ask for bloodwork and he will do it. I just don't trust any medical professional anymore with the results.

Happy I found this place where I can educate myself and learn from you all. Thanks for sharing your knowledge, and saving me from myself!

[tarmyg]

There are plenty of women on this site who have very successfully run cycles. They, generally, only run oral cycles (Anavar, Winstrol) but I know some that are on microscopic amounts of injectable testosterone. I would not do any other topical creams or similar until you feel you have complete control over your situation. Now when you know that your coach, literally, do not seem to care about your wellbeing, take matters into your own hands and you will be much better off.

That doctor should lose his license IMHO!

[wolpertinger]

Thanks tarmyg, I feel the same way, I want to be in control from now on. I think I can do it better myself with this website.

[Mr.BB]

As for your testosterone level, do you have the blood work and can you post it for us to comment?

20ng/dl, is not high for a female but range is usually 15-70ng/dl, so you're probably in range. Something simple like supplementing DHEA and vit D can easily put you a bit higher.

You can still try steroids if you want and extra edge but you should start with anavar, which is the least androgenic steroid available.

[wolpertinger]

Hi Mr.BB, it's not 20, it's <20, so could be anything between zero and 20. I have a tiny bit of free testosterone, but not enough to be in the normal range. This lab doesn't even give a range at all! From what I researched, it should be between 1.4 and 2.8 approximately.

BTW I believe this happened because I've been on hormonal birth control for 20-25 years (Nuva Ring for many years most recently). I quit about 2-3 years ago for a number of reasons, no acute health problems, more concerned about long-term effects while getting older. So apparently if you supply progesterone (via birth control) for a lengthy time, eventually the body stops making its own. I'm a little fuzzy on the testosterone, but my understanding was that testosterone is made from progesterone. So therefore if I don't have progesterone, there couldn't possibly be any testosterone. I don't remember where I got this info so please feel free to laugh at me if this is totally bogus. I just started supplementing with Vitamin D3 at I believe 1000% or however much they pack in those tiny pills. I also take curcumin and fish oil and a catch-all multi just to be safe.

Anyways, some lab results:

Total testosterone <20 ng/dL (reference range: women ovulating <73, post-menopausal <43)
SHBG: 47 nmol/L (18-114)
Free testosterone calculated: 0.286 ng/dL (no reference range given)

Progesterone: 0.3 ng/mL (follicular phase <13.4, mid-follicular <1.33, midcycle 0.48-2, luteal <26.6, mid-luteal 2.83-26.1. I was on Day 3 of my period when I had the blood drawn so perfectly in the follicular phase)

Estradiol: 49.7 pg/mL (pre-menopausal 15-350, follicular <160, Day 2 and 3 <84 - not listing everything else, this one looks good)

DHEA-S: 108 ug/dL (35-430)

FSH: 9.4 mlU/mL (follicular 2.8-11.3)

LH: 3.3 mlU/mL (follicular 1.1-11.6)

Prolactin: 13.4ng/mL (2.2-24.9)

T3 free: 2.9 pg/mL (1.5-4.1)

T4 free: 1.08 ng/dL (0.89-1.76)

TSH: 1.050 ulU/mL (0.4-4)

I also have Complete Blood Count and Complete Metabolic Panel. It's a lot, I will copy & paste it here and hope the formatting comes out OK. The only noteworthy thing is GFR Calc, which should be >60 and mine was 58. Last time I had this test in 2014 it was eGFR and it was 66. Back in 2014 my Urea Nitrogen was 28 and it's supposed to be 7-25, now it is 17. I have an appointment on November 12th to fill in some more bloodwork for a complete picture, cholesterol etc. This is all I have for now (I had this done because I thought I might be in early menopause - night sweats).


Report Result Ref. Range Units
WBC 6.3 3.5-10.0 K/uL
RBC 4.57 3.80-5.80 M/uL
HEMOGLOBIN 13.8 11.0-16.5 g/dL
HEMATOCRIT 40.7 35.0-50.0 %
MCV 89.0 80.0-97.0 fL
MCH 30.2 26.5-33.5 pg
MCHC 33.9 31.5-35.0 g/dL
RDW 13.1 10.0-15.0 %
PLATELETS 245 150-450 K/uL
MPV 7.7 6.5-11.0 fL
GRANULOCYTE % 71.1 43.0-76.0 %
GRANULOCYTE ABS. 4.5 1.2-6.8 K/uL
LYMPHOCYTE % 24.1 17.0-48.0 %
LYMPHOCYTE ABS. 1.5 1.2-3.2 K/uL
MONOOCYTE % 4.8 4.0-10.0 %
MONOOCYTE ABS. 0.3 0.3-0.8 K/uL

Report Result Ref. Range Units
GLUCOSE 76 65-99 mg/dL
BUN 17 6-25 mg/dL
CREATININE 1.1 0.5-1.2 mg/dL
FEMALE GFR CALC 58 >60 Low
Units for e.GFR: mL/min/1.73 m^2
NOTE: The estimated GFR values above 60 mL/min/1.73 m2 should be
interpreted as "above 60 mL/min/1.73 m2," not an exact number.
TOTAL PROTEIN 6.7 6.0-8.3 g/dL
ALBUMIN 4.4 3.5-5.5 g/dL
GLOBULIN (CALC.) 2.3 2.0-4.0 g/dL
A/G RATIO (CALC) 1.9 1.1-2.5 Ratio
CALCIUM 9.1 8.3-10.5 mg/dL
BILIRUBIN, TOTAL 0.6 0.1-1.4 mg/dL
SODIUM 140 135-155 mEq/L
POTASSIUM 4.0 3.5-5.5 mEq/L
CHLORIDE 104 96-110 mEq/L
AST (SGOT) 24 1-40 IU/L
ALK.PHOSPHATASE 60 30-125 IU/L
CO2 26 15-35 mEq/L
ALT (SGPT) 15 5-45 IU/L
ANION GAP(CALC.) 10 0-25
BUN/CREAT.(CALC) 15 7-30 Ratio

[wolpertinger]

I am mostly settled on trying the topical. I am pretty uptight and the idea of doing anything remotely illegal gives me nightmares. I also don't like needles so I would always have to go somewhere to have someone do it for me. I wish I was a cool kid, alas I am not. The topical is legal to purchase and legal to import and it comes in a pink tube... Yes I know this is irrelevant, it would be the exact same thing in a black tube with red skulls and crossbones, but like I said... I'm really uptight. I'm great fun at parties

[Mr.BB]

It is why I told you to supplement DHEA:



Dont worry much about the GFR, it is calculated from creatinine.

If you are having other bloods try to use a different lab, which can have a more precise measuring method.

[Mr.BB]

I am mostly settled on trying the topical. I am pretty uptight and the idea of doing anything remotely illegal gives me nightmares. I also don't like needles so I would always have to go somewhere to have someone do it for me. I wish I was a cool kid, alas I am not. The topical is legal to purchase and legal to import and it comes in a pink tube... Yes I know this is irrelevant, it would be the exact same thing in a black tube with red skulls and crossbones, but like I said... I'm really uptight. I'm great fun at parties

But the question you need to ask if you really have low T symptoms, and then confirm through blood work. If its just because of muscle performance you would be better trying a anavar cycle.

[davesah1]

Bet the old Geyser dressed like a warlock, wearing a deflated dick tip for a that gave this Doctor his diploma would be proud.

When broscience > medical school.

"50 percent fact, 50 percent magic. 100 percent results."

[wolpertinger]

Mr.BB, gotcha, thanks for that image. I think I still have a bottle of DHEA floating around somewhere. I supplemented a while ago because I suspected my testosterone was low. I definitely have symptoms. I'm amazed I can lift what I do, with this little testosterone. I don't know why I never followed through with a hormone test before.

davesah1, I don't know what this means, sorry.

[davesah1]

That little quote is from a youtube comic who does meatheads parodies.

My first go with test I was amazed at what test could do for strength. Your in good hands on these boards.

Kelkel will help you out no doubt.

[Billegitimate]

Wolp, fwiw my wife had T less than <20 as well. She takes a single 20mg test Cypionate shot a week. Which keeps her in the 200-240 range. Subq with a 31g insulin syringe.

She's been stable on this for years now. Pellets before that, but they left lumps and scars. 31g needle is nothing.

[wolpertinger]

Billegitimate, thanks - I'm fairly certain I am done with injections and that stuff. Currently trying to figure out how to mitigate the side effects best so that they don't become permanent. Contemplating birth control, but not sure if this is appropriate or if I'd be screwing myself over in a different way. Honestly at the moment the last thing on my mind is low testosterone. I will revisit the issue in a few weeks when my body hopefully cleared what's in it right now.

[Billegitimate]

When you come back to it just start with a simple 15-20mg a week subcutaneous. Easy shot and after 8 weeks or so get some blood work and adjust if needed.

[wolpertinger]

Thanks, but as I have mentioned upthread a few times, this is not an option for me for several reasons.