Estrodiol test

[mazguy]

It my understanding that men should have the sensitive test for estrodiol but since there was no check mark on the blood work order my doctor did not request it. Assuming that there is a substantial difference between standard estrodiol and sensitive what exactly is the difference?
That is, if my result came back at 16 using the standard estrodiol test, would my actual number be lower or higher than that?

At 65, my estrodiol should be in the low twenties, correct?

[mazguy]

Paging KelKel

[Quester]

Males are sensitive to estradiol in a range that is smaller than women. The sensitive e2 assay tests in this range. The other one doesn't provide any value to a male in any way at all.

[kelkel]

Males are sensitive to estradiol in a range that is smaller than women. The sensitive e2 assay tests in this range. The other one doesn't provide any value to a male in any way at all.

Exactly. Standard estradiol can read much higher which then can cause an uneccessary use of AI's. Check out discounted labs or private md labs and pull it yourself if possible.

[Youthful55guy]

Without getting into technical details, hormone labs are designed to detect their target hormone with specificity (i.e., no cross-reactivity with other similar hormones) and with sensitivity over a given range of hormone levels. The latter is what is important with the "Sensitive" vs. "Standard" E2 assay. Sensitivity is usually determined with what the assay developers call a Standard Curve. A standard curve is where a series of blood samples that have a previously validated to have low to no concentrations of the target hormone are spiked with the target hormone at known concentrations. These are then run in the test and the test results are plotted against the known values. This usually results in an "S-shaped" curve, the linear portion of which is where the assay is most sensitive. When you get to either end of the curve, large changes in the test sample may result in little to no changes in the returned value, or vice versa. In other words, the assay is spitting out garbage numbers once you deviate from the linear portion of the curve.

Women generally have E2 values that 10X or more higher then men; therefore, they need an assay that is linear over the range of hormones that they normally produce. Men need the opposite, an assay where the linear portion of the curve is within typical values produced by men. Garbage in - garbage out. The worst thing about garbage in hormone assays is that if you don't know it's garbage (and many docs do not), it can lead to erroneous conclusions and treatments that are wrong or unnecessary.

[mazguy]

Finally got my doctor (actually his nurse) to prescribe Sensitive Estrodiol on the BW but since LabCorp doesn't have a box to check other than standard Estrodiol she had to hand write Sensitive Estrodiol on the top of the page.
Taking .25 Arimadez twice a week the estrodiol test results put me at 25.
I'm also on .75 1cc 200mg Cypionate every four days and 250iu of HCG every other day.

TSH was twice as high as it should have been so now also on 50mcg of Thyroxzine

[mazguy]

xxxx

[almostgone]

Finally got my doctor (actually his nurse) to prescribe Sensitive Estrodiol on the BW but since LabCorp doesn't have a box to check other than standard Estrodiol she had to hand write Sensitive Estrodiol on the top of the page.
Taking .25 Arimadez twice a week the estrodiol test results put me at 25.
I'm also on .75 1cc 200mg Cypionate every four days and 250iu of HCG every other day.

TSH was twice as high as it should have been so now also on 50mcg of Thyroxzine

Wow, pretty high dose. Where does that put your free T (and total T)? Also, you could probably drop back on the a'dex a tad? Definitely could if you don't need such a high dose of cypionate. Possibly drop the HCG back as well.
No comment on the thyroid meds as I'm not comfortable discussing that.

[Youthful55guy]

Finally got my doctor (actually his nurse) to prescribe Sensitive Estrodiol on the BW but since LabCorp doesn't have a box to check other than standard Estrodiol she had to hand write Sensitive Estrodiol on the top of the page.
Taking .25 Arimadez twice a week the estrodiol test results put me at 25.
I'm also on .75 1cc 200mg Cypionate every four days and 250iu of HCG every other day.

TSH was twice as high as it should have been so now also on 50mcg of Thyroxzine

Yeah, If I understand what you posed correctly, that is a stout dose of T (0.75 mL of 200mg/mL T-cyp). That equates to 300 mg T-cyp per week. I highly recommend a starting dose of 100 mg/wk in divided doses (e.g., 40-50 mg E3D) and then repeating labs in 4 to 6 weeks and adjust from there. Rarely, do you ever need to go up to 300 mg, but there was one other gentleman in another thread that proved there is an exception to every rule. My guess is that he also had low SHBG, but I've yet to see him post those values.

Regarding mono therapy with Thyroxzine (T4). I've read a lot of folks with bad experience. My understanding is that this is an old school approach. Yes, T4 will suppress TSH very effectively, and in theory convert to the more active T3 form of the hormone. The problem is that when it does not convert properly (e.g., to rT3), it can be worse than not treating al all. Also, there is good evidence that T4 will increase SHBG production and that can interfere with your TRT by sucking up Free T. I believe a more modern approach is to use a combination of T4 and slow release T3, but the name of the drug escapes me.

I currently use Armour Thyroid, which is dessicated pig thyroid. it contains all of the thyroid hormones (T1, T2, T3, and T4) in approximately the correct proportions (although some argue it is a bit high in T4 for humans). I do have high SHBG and over the next year I plan to slowly reduce my dose of Armour Thyroid and see what it does to SHBG.

[mazguy]

Wow, pretty high dose. Where does that put your free T (and total T)? Also, you could probably drop back on the a'dex a tad? Definitely could if you don't need such a high dose of cypionate. Possibly drop the HCG back as well.
No comment on the thyroid meds as I'm not comfortable discussing that.

Wow I just got my testosterone test results and you are correct. My total was 1530 and free 53.6 This test was on my injection day just before injecting so I'm guessing this is extremely high.
I better cut back to a half cc every four days? After that I might not need the Arimadex?
I'm taking the HCG because although it did not restore my testicle size it did increase my libido.

[kelkel]

Did you not test your E2 this time?

[mazguy]

Did you not test your E2 this time?

Yes estrodiol came back at 25. Testosterone and estrodiol were run together but the testosterone results came back a week later.