prepping for my 2nd cycle - questions

[rippedrich]

I finished my first cycle after 15 years. I took test prop for 8 weeks and anavar for about 6 weeks and then switched to test sust for 6 weeks and winny for the last 4weeks. (I took about a 14 day break between the orals). I ran HGH all the way through and still have about 1 more week of HGH left. I am currently on PCT.

I will start my next cycle in about 5 months.

I am 41 years old, 6ft2, 205lbs, 14.8% BF and weight train 3-4x / week. (was doing 5-6x / week during cycle and had really put work on the back burner)

Next cycle I really want to get to 12% BF and before anyone intervenes and says that's just diet, well I know its a big part but I tend to lose muscle every time I cut and I don't want that because right now body looks great in a tight dress shirt.

Here is what I am planning. Please feel free to critique.


Test prop for 16 weeks - unsure of how much but probably on the higher side.
HGH for 16 weeks
Clen - 3 weeks on, 10 days off, 3 weeks on then permantely off. Reason for this is I did clen in my twenties and it really messes up my sleep.
Anavar same time as clen but for 6 weeks straight.
Creatine (currently on it now)
L-Carnatine (currently on it now)
Will be running a caloric deficit of about 300-500 calories. I did 500-800 calories on previous cycle but found my metabolism slowed down, plus I don't want to cut out fruits like last time.
Workout 5-6x / week.

Currently, arms are sitting at 16.25". I'm happy with it but wouldn't mind them at 17"
Waist - 37.25" happy with it but don't mind it going down.
Chest 42.5" - would like to stay same size.

Upper body looks great (see, I don't suffer from body dysmorphia). Legs can use work but I'm actually hiring a personal trainer in the next few weeks for that as I'm having a hard time making that mind to muscle connection especially with the glutes.

Anyway, please let me know your thoughts.

[Honkey_Kong]

I finished my first cycle after 15 years. I took test prop for 8 weeks and anavar for about 6 weeks and then switched to test sust for 6 weeks and winny for the last 4weeks. (I took about a 14 day break between the orals). I ran HGH all the way through and still have about 1 more week of HGH left. I am currently on PCT.

I will start my next cycle in about 5 months.

I am 41 years old, 6ft2, 205lbs, 14.8% BF and weight train 3-4x / week. (was doing 5-6x / week during cycle and had really put work on the back burner)

Next cycle I really want to get to 12% BF and before anyone intervenes and says that's just diet, well I know its a big part but I tend to lose muscle every time I cut and I don't want that because right now body looks great in a tight dress shirt.

Here is what I am planning. Please feel free to critique.


Test prop for 16 weeks - unsure of how much but probably on the higher side.
HGH for 16 weeks
Clen - 3 weeks on, 10 days off, 3 weeks on then permantely off. Reason for this is I did clen in my twenties and it really messes up my sleep.
Anavar same time as clen but for 6 weeks straight.
Creatine (currently on it now)
L-Carnatine (currently on it now)
Will be running a caloric deficit of about 300-500 calories. I did 500-800 calories on previous cycle but found my metabolism slowed down, plus I don't want to cut out fruits like last time.
Workout 5-6x / week.

Currently, arms are sitting at 16.25". I'm happy with it but wouldn't mind them at 17"
Waist - 37.25" happy with it but don't mind it going down.
Chest 42.5" - would like to stay same size.

Upper body looks great (see, I don't suffer from body dysmorphia). Legs can use work but I'm actually hiring a personal trainer in the next few weeks for that as I'm having a hard time making that mind to muscle connection especially with the glutes.

Anyway, please let me know your thoughts.

Taking the sust for 6 weeks after everything was pretty retarded. You take a short acting test for 8 weeks, the switch to a blend where 2 of the esters are long acting and a third one was pretty comparable to test E or C. so that meant your test dipped significantly as you passed the prop you were taking, before the longer esters even made it to your blood stream.


And taking test p for 16 weeks is retarded too. You're likely going to plateau with the gains about 6-8 weeks in to it at the dose you're taking. As far as dieting goes, the clen really isn't going to make much of a difference. It's the dieting that matters. And if you're in a calorid deficit, I wouldn't expect your arms to get any bigger. In fact, I'd expect them to get smaller. Even if you're using steroids, you are going to lose some muscle while you're cutting.

And quite frankly for your goals, you shouldn't need steroids or clen to get to where you want to be. At most, since you're 41, go to a doctor, have blood work done and see if TRT is an option for you.

Finally, again 6'2 and 204lbs at 14%bf is far from anyone's natural limit. I don't see how a healthy man couldn't get to 12% without gear.

[rippedrich]

You are absolutely right about taking the test sust at the end of my cycle. That made no sense. But we live and learn. I just hope my pct will still work though I started it 3rd day after last injection. So far I feel good and haven’t lost any muscle. Could be because the test is still in me.

My body composition changed quite a bit for the better on my last cycle. Like I said I could probably get to 12% without the juice but I like how I responded. And I want to improve on this body shape.

[Testie]

Taking the sust for 6 weeks after everything was pretty retarded. You take a short acting test for 8 weeks, the switch to a blend where 2 of the esters are long acting and a third one was pretty comparable to test E or C. so that meant your test dipped significantly as you passed the prop you were taking, before the longer esters even made it to your blood stream.


And taking test p for 16 weeks is retarded too. You're likely going to plateau with the gains about 6-8 weeks in to it at the dose you're taking. As far as dieting goes, the clen really isn't going to make much of a difference. It's the dieting that matters. And if you're in a calorid deficit, I wouldn't expect your arms to get any bigger. In fact, I'd expect them to get smaller. Even if you're using steroids, you are going to lose some muscle while you're cutting.

And quite frankly for your goals, you shouldn't need steroids or clen to get to where you want to be. At most, since you're 41, go to a doctor, have blood work done and see if TRT is an option for you.

Finally, again 6'2 and 204lbs at 14%bf is far from anyone's natural limit. I don't see how a healthy man couldn't get to 12% without gear.

Good point I think a lot of guys would be surprised on what they could do just utilizing Trt and a good workout and diet protocol you can go a long way

[rippedrich]

isn’t TRT for life?
My test levels were normal when I started my cycle. I see no reason to start doing TRT right now.

[Testie]

isn’t TRT for life?
My test levels were normal when I started my cycle. I see no reason to start doing TRT right now.

Steroids are for life my Brother if you’re trying to keep your gains, at your age the chances of your normal levels coming back after a few cycles is greatly diminished once you start using gear you have to keep using gear regardless of what other people will tell you that’s the way this works

[Cuz]

Steroids are for life my Brother if you’re trying to keep your gains, at your age the chances of your normal levels coming back after a few cycles is greatly diminished once you start using gear you have to keep using gear regardless of what other people will tell you that’s the way this works

Some good no bullshit advice OP.

[rippedrich]

Damn, this is hard to swallow

[redz]

Very poorly laid out cycle. Too long on orals, long esters ran too short and pointless hgh use. You need to run hgh permanently really. I’ve been on about 3 years now but it’s not worth using for very short periods. The longer you stay on the better it gets but less than 6 months at a decent dose is a total waste.

[rippedrich]

Would running the hgh longer also help with getting my natural testosterone levels back to normal?

[Cylon357]

Would running the hgh longer also help with getting my natural testosterone levels back to normal?

No, hgh has nothing to do with testosterone production.

Go read this:

https://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-...rst-cycle.html

Yes, I know you have cycled before, but your questions indicate you don't have some foundational knowledge that you definitely need.

Come back with questions after reading that, you will get better responses.

[rippedrich]

I have read that and just re-read it .. it was a good refresher.

I think I'm going to order another 2 month supply of pharma grade HGH which will take it to a total of 6 months

With the addition of my personal trainer I will also hire a dietician/nutritionalist to help make a diet plan to see if I can get to my coveted 12% BF while still maintaining the current muscle mass I have built.

The poster above who mentioned that after a few cycles my chances of my natural test levels coming back after a few cycles is greatly diminished once you start using gear has me worried. I was only planning to do one cycle a year. I did not think my cycle was anything hardcore as it compromises of mild steroids so was not expecting that response. I'm just hoping someone comes in here and says that's not true.

Thanks for all the responses.

[Swilderbeast]

Imagine your natural test levels are a bell curve. From the time you’re born you are in the left side of the bell curve. Approx (and I’m sure someone will argue this number) age 26 you’re at the top of that bell curve, every day after that you slowly and gradually slide down the right side of the curve. Steroid use will spike your test numbers while on it, but as soon as you go off you will drop your test numbers and then they need to recover. Now imagine that same bell curve with a V notch cut out on the right side. Your numbers will come back up from the dip but still naturally you are declining and the more you use the hard it is to get back to where you would have been naturally, if you get back at all.

[rippedrich]

But depending on cycle has to be a factor. I can understand if I did some hardcore cycle for a long duration multiple times as that having longterm consequences on my natural testosterone levels.
I'm just having a hard time accepting that 16 week cycle stacked with anavar and clen would also give me negative long term effects on my natural testosterone levels. Its contrary to everything I been told .. but if that is the case, I have to rethink my game plan going forward.

[Cylon357]

But depending on cycle has to be a factor. I can understand if I did some hardcore cycle for a long duration multiple times as that having longterm consequences on my natural testosterone levels.
I'm just having a hard time accepting that 16 week cycle stacked with anavar and clen would also give me negative long term effects on my natural testosterone levels. Its contrary to everything I been told .. but if that is the case, I have to rethink my game plan going forward.

Nothing is guaranteed. That's why things like HCG on cycle are recommended: they give you the best chance of recovering.

What are your natural levels like?

[tarmyg]

But depending on cycle has to be a factor. I can understand if I did some hardcore cycle for a long duration multiple times as that having longterm consequences on my natural testosterone levels.
I'm just having a hard time accepting that 16 week cycle stacked with anavar and clen would also give me negative long term effects on my natural testosterone levels. Its contrary to everything I been told .. but if that is the case, I have to rethink my game plan going forward.

There are no absolutes here, which is why you will get some different opinions and answers. There are a few decent guidelines, and you got those in the thread on the first cycle you read. Exactly how your body will recover from a cycle is something you can only understand from experience, as no one here is you.

Your “first” cycle could have been better, and your second could be given some more thought. As you are cutting, using a minimal amount of AAS to maintain muscle mass is enough, IMHO. I use Tren, but testosterone would probably work just as well. Skip clenbuterol; zero need at your body fat level. Spend the money on a nutritionist, as you alluded to above, instead. Sub 10% is pretty easy for most with small intervention in the diet.

Post your proposed cycle here and modify it according to the feedback you receive, and when satisfied, run it.

My 2c.