Run flats

[thisAngelBites]

I've been trying to buy a car for nearly a year, and gave up on what I wanted bc I couldn't find the right vehicle, so I have changed my mind and am looking for a different make and model.

The problems is that they come with run flats, and I am not excited about that.

One, I really want a full size spare that I can change if I get a leak or flat. Two, I hear that since the sidewalls are so firm and that makes the ride so jarring that they use a softer compound on the tread, which wears out quickly - I see people saying they need to replace from 10k-30k miles (expense, annoyance spending time dealing with tyres). Third, this is also going to affect suspension wear I imagine. Fourth, I care immensely about handling, and I hear the handling and feel is decreased with run flats, and some people they handle very poorly in wet conditions (england is like a wet towelette of a country).

Is there anything really good about run flats? All I can think of is the remote chance of a blow out.

Otherwise, if I buy the car, and replace the run flats with proper rubber all around, are there any problems with a) warranty, b) tyre pressure sensors, c) rims - do I need new ones, or can I fit non RFTs on rims made for RFs? and d) suspension being adjusted to be used with RFs?

Any info or advice?

[lovbyts]

Who cares, its a spare and you will probably never need it. Ive used 2??? In 30 years and its not like you have to use them on the autobaun. (Spelling)

My bad I thought you meant the spare.

I guess it all depends on the car. If I had one I expected and planned to push in the corners and curves I would not want them.

[APIs]

More cars are coming with RFs because it's more cost-effective for the manufacturers not having to provide a spare & jack. Plus when you get a flat, RFs arent supposed to be plugged so they make you buy a new tire (big fat scam). Once you buy the car new, just wear down the run-flats and purchase regular aftermarket replacement tires on Tire Rack and have them shipped to an installer listed on their website. The wont void your warranty and they should provide a softer ride. If you're leasing the car, your contract may require that OEM tires be present on the car when you turn it in at end of lease.

[bartman314]

i've had run flats and non run flats on my suv. i couldnt really tell the difference.

[pasha]

Cant tell the different between run flat and non. run flat tires are like performance tires, harder on the road. you feel every bump. i have only seen run flat tires on sporty cars, and sporty cars take performance tires anyway. so the ride is gonna de harder no matter what. unless you put normal soft tires on a performance car. what car are you looking to buy? Like mentioned above you can put normal tires on when the run flat wear.. that way you don't have to spend the money on run flat. i think you are thinking too much about it, the car comes with run flat. cool, when they wear off buy whatever tire you want. yea the good thing about run flat is that you won't be stranded. but depending on the car brand you buy, if its under warranty you can just call the dealership. they send someone out to change it for you, if your tires are not run flat.

[thisAngelBites]

More cars are coming with RFs because it's more cost-effective for the manufacturers not having to provide a spare & jack. Plus when you get a flat, RFs arent supposed to be plugged so they make you buy a new tire (big fat scam). Once you buy the car new, just wear down the run-flats and purchase regular aftermarket replacement tires on Tire Rack and have them shipped to an installer listed on their website. The wont void your warranty and they should provide a softer ride. If you're leasing the car, your contract may require that OEM tires be present on the car when you turn it in at end of lease.

I thought the major justification was that the car was lighter without a spare and jack (and probably helps manufacturers who are under a lot of pressure, at least in europe, to lower Co2 emissions), but the RFs are heavier than non RFs, and so I think the difference is negligible.

Also, RFs seem to wear down so quickly, that when you have to replace, the suggestion is to replace in pairs due to uneven wear. I don't know who thought of these, or how car manufacturers are justifying them to themselves, or customers. I guess someone thought it was literally necessary to reinvent the wheel.

My mechanic, who is a former Aston Martin design engineer, says that RFs have improved dramatically in the last few years, and this this has only improved them to the point that they are useless instead of dangerous.

Maybe I'll sell the RFs on ebay and just start with a good set of vredesteins or F1s.

[APIs]

RFs dont necessarily wear out more quickly. Overall wear is based on the Tread Wear rating that the tire was given and one's driving habits. The higher the performance, the lower the TW rating will be meaning they wear out faster. The softer the compound on the tire (low TW rating), the more they will grip the road (and wear out quicker). I'd look at your tires (on sidewall) and see what the TW rating is, then look on Tire Rack to determine if there's an aftermarket tire available with a higher TW rating. IMO, there are plenty of aftermarket tires available that will wear better without sacrificing handling/grip. Besides, in reality, you wont notice much difference on a car that's street driven only.

I have a 2013 Corvette Z06 that I race on open track in the summer months. For racing I use tires with a TW rating of under 200 for the purpose of more grip. I would actually go even lower, but I drive it on the street too during the summer months. If I was using it on the street only, I'd use a tire with a min 300 TW rating to make them last longer since a set for this car costs over $1500.00.

[thisAngelBites]

The OEMs on this car (Bridgestone Potenza RFs) have an expected life of 14k miles (TW 140)! The people I have asked who have used them get very mixed results. I've heard that they have started using harder tread to increase longevity, but how hard do you want to go with those sidewalls? You get longer life, but then you crack your vertebrae every time you run over a piece of dental floss, and you reduce the coefficient of friction, so handling becomes even worse!

I have softer tyres on my skyline, which I use the way you use your Corvette, but I drive my street car quite a bit, and I drive it pretty hard and fast on these winding country roads. I just don't think the RFs are going to work for me.

[Docd187123]

The OEMs on this car (Bridgestone Potenza RFs) have an expected life of 14k miles (TW 140)! The people I have asked who have used them get very mixed results. I've heard that they have started using harder tread to increase longevity, but how hard do you want to go with those sidewalls? You get longer life, but then you crack your vertebrae every time you run over a piece of dental floss, and you reduce the coefficient of friction, so handling becomes even worse!

I have softer tyres on my skyline, which I use the way you use your Corvette, but I drive my street car quite a bit, and I drive it pretty hard and fast on these winding country roads. I just don't think the RFs are going to work for me.

By skyline I'm hoping you mean the Nissan Skyline?????

[DrewZ]

I absolutely love my run flats except for the cost of replacing them.
They are considerably more expensive than a non RF tire.

[BG]

By skyline I'm hoping you mean the Nissan Skyline?????

Kinda would seem that way Captain obvious.

[Mp859]

Kinda would seem that way Captain obvious.

It's Doc obvious bro.

[DCI]

You are in the UK yeh?? I'm big into cars and everyonr I know who has rf that came from the factory as standard gets rid of them for two big reasons.

They ruin the ride of the car and when hitting potholes which you will in the uk they have an awful habbit of cracking or buckling wheels.

Buddy of mine has a 640D BMW over here hes sick of fixing wheels from the cracking or buckling from rfs solid side walls hes gone back to michelein super sports and he says the car is transformed tbh

[Docd187123]

Kinda would seem that way Captain obvious.

It kind of would seem that way sure. That's why I asked for clarification but I see simple sentences are hard for you to follow. I apologize

[Hazard]

Kinda would seem that way Captain obvious.

[marcus300]

That's Captain copy and paste out of that movie "i'm a fat cvnt" isn't it?

[thisAngelBites]

By skyline I'm hoping you mean the Nissan Skyline?????

yep.

[thisAngelBites]

You are in the UK yeh?? I'm big into cars and everyonr I know who has rf that came from the factory as standard gets rid of them for two big reasons.

They ruin the ride of the car and when hitting potholes which you will in the uk they have an awful habbit of cracking or buckling wheels.

Buddy of mine has a 640D BMW over here hes sick of fixing wheels from the cracking or buckling from rfs solid side walls hes gone back to michelein super sports and he says the car is transformed tbh

I had heard that alloys cracking was another problem, and assumed it was the 19 inch ones, but then I have been reading people have cracked 18 and 17 in ones as well. I've also read a couple of cases where people are guessing the sidewall gash fairly easily, and then you need a recovery.

[thisAngelBites]

I absolutely love my run flats except for the cost of replacing them.
They are considerably more expensive than a non RF tire.

Why do you like them compared to regular tyres?

[DCI]

I had heard that alloys cracking was another problem, and assumed it was the 19 inch ones, but then I have been reading people have cracked 18 and 17 in ones as well. I've also read a couple of cases where people are guessing the sidewall gash fairly easily, and then you need a recovery.

Yeh they ruin the inner part of the wheel which is the weakest. I've gotten wheels welded before but only by my friend who is a proper metal fabricator he can weld everything from stainless to tititanium etc so welding a wheel is a piece of piss to him other than that I wouldn't trust anyone else welding them to be honest.

Rf tyres are morr expensive than there standard tyre counter parts and have many dis advantages than advantages imo.

Check out the michelin sport cup 3's I drove a Ferrari 458 Speciale recently with those tyres and they are mind bending performance wise and for the Skyline theyd be perfect

[Lifted1]

I wouldn't worry too much about the run flat tires. Sport suspensions and low profile tires ride stiff anyways. Buy the car if you really want it and replace the rf's when necessary...rears first, of course.

[DCI]

I wouldn't worry too much about the run flat tires. Sport suspensions and low profile tires ride stiff anyways. Buy the car if you really want it and replace the rf's when necessary...rears first, of course.

Thats exactly the issue. Sports suspension and low profile tyres combined with runflats basically solid sidewheel ruins the whole feel of the car tbh and causes the issues with wheels and sometimes wishbones etc if you hit a bump hard enough

[thisAngelBites]

Yeh they ruin the inner part of the wheel which is the weakest. I've gotten wheels welded before but only by my friend who is a proper metal fabricator he can weld everything from stainless to tititanium etc so welding a wheel is a piece of piss to him other than that I wouldn't trust anyone else welding them to be honest.

Rf tyres are morr expensive than there standard tyre counter parts and have many dis advantages than advantages imo.

Check out the michelin sport cup 3's I drove a Ferrari 458 Speciale recently with those tyres and they are mind bending performance wise and for the Skyline theyd be perfect

A friend has those new sport cups on his //M3, and I meant to ask him about them, but we got sidetracked because he's developed some new ceramic/kevlar pads that I had to hear about. I've got PS2 at the moment, but I had a look at the reviews for the sport cup 3, and it's almost all positive. Thanks for the rec.

[thisAngelBites]

Thats exactly the issue. Sports suspension and low profile tyres combined with runflats basically solid sidewheel ruins the whole feel of the car tbh and causes the issues with wheels and sometimes wishbones etc if you hit a bump hard enough

And my driving style does not really include minor impacts so I am definitely concerned about this.

[Times Roman]

I put very little thought into the little car I recently purchased. all I wanted was

great gas mileage
low maintenance
runs on regular gas
handles well
inexpensive

I don't know anything about run flats

I just call AAA and/or put the spare tire on.

[thisAngelBites]

Roman, each time I set out all the little niggles of what I wanted, in my next vehicle, I searched the adverts for cars that met my criteria, and ended up with 8 cars, nationwide, from which to choose (not that this is a big island, but still, I think I started with over 8000 cars on the market). I'm too picky. I also have externally imposed constraints because my son is a cellist and I have to accommodate the instrument, which is large. But I drive the kid around a lot (who doesn't when they get to a certain age?), and I enjoy cars. At the moment my road car is one I bought to be practical, and I am so miserable in it that I am thinking of barbecuing it because I just don't think I can relax until it does not even exist any more. So I'm being picky this time.

[Docd187123]

That's Captain copy and paste out of that movie "i'm a fat cvnt" isn't it?

Temper temper. Mood swings and depression are side effects of steroids in case you didn't know. Now instead of hijacking Angel's thread how about you do like mummy taught you and play nicely with others.

[marcus300]

Temper temper. Mood swings and depression are side effects of steroids in case you didn't know. Now instead of hijacking Angel's thread how about you do like mummy taught you and play nicely with others.

I wasn't talking to you it was directed to Haz but obviously you took offence because you could see we were talking the piss out of you for being fat short and small, oh and you have only been on steroids for 12 months yet you give out all this advice what you copy and paste. Sorry if you could recognise yourself in my quote and by the way I'm only on TRT not on cycle but yet again I sense your jealous undertones but don't worry I wasn't in a mood I was laughing at the picture what Haz posted so like ive said before fuk off and stop following me around your like my groupie fat boy

[Docd187123]

I wasn't talking to you it was directed to Haz but obviously you took offence because you could see we were talking the piss out of you for being fat short and small, oh and you have only been on steroids for 12 months yet you give out all this advice what you copy and paste. Sorry if you could recognise yourself in my quote and by the way I'm only on TRT not on cycle but yet again I sense your jealous undertones but don't worry I wasn't in a mood I was laughing at the picture what Haz posted so like ive said before fuk off and stop following me around your like my groupie fat boy

I have used steroids for longer than 12 months. I have never posted a picture of myself on here or any other forum so the only evidence of me being fat is when I call myself a fatass....if you can't understand tongue in cheek I will copy and paste a definition for you.

Being short is something to be ashamed of really? Are you that stupid? Are you seriously so desperate for attention and validation that you make height a crux of your argument? If it makes you feel any better I'll tell you that you have fair skin in your pics, maybe it will help with your self-esteem issues. I'm perfectly happy in my own skin but apparently you're not since your arguments are based on your self-perceived aesthetic superiority. So now you can keep poking fun of someone's physique all you want if it makes your fragile ego feel a teeny bit better and I will keep laughing at you in the meantime. Who cares if you're on TRT or a cycle, I said steroids not a cycle. Practice your reading comprehension there fella.

Angel, I apologize for my role in detailing your thread. It was t my intention with my original question to you but you still deserve an apology. Hopefully some actual adults will remain in this thread since some of the 'bigger and taller people' people on this forum jumped on AAS a bit too early and never fully developed their cognitive function.

And if it were up to me, I would ditch the run flats as soon as you could. Many other better tire options for a gearhead although you would have to potentially deal with flat tires.

[marcus300]

I have used steroids for longer than 12 months. I have never posted a picture of myself on here or any other forum so the only evidence of me being fat is when I call myself a fatass....if you can't understand tongue in cheek I will copy and paste a definition for you.

Being short is something to be ashamed of really? Are you that stupid? Are you seriously so desperate for attention and validation that you make height a crux of your argument? If it makes you feel any better I'll tell you that you have fair skin in your pics, maybe it will help with your self-esteem issues. I'm perfectly happy in my own skin but apparently you're not since your arguments are based on your self-perceived aesthetic superiority. So now you can keep poking fun of someone's physique all you want if it makes your fragile ego feel a teeny bit better and I will keep laughing at you in the meantime. Who cares if you're on TRT or a cycle, I said steroids not a cycle. Practice your reading comprehension there fella.

Angel, I apologize for my role in detailing your thread. It was t my intention with my original question to you but you still deserve an apology. Hopefully some actual adults will remain in this thread since some of the 'bigger and taller people' people on this forum jumped on AAS a bit too early and never fully developed their cognitive function.

And if it were up to me, I would ditch the run flats as soon as you could. Many other better tire options for a gearhead although you would have to potentially deal with flat tires.

You state in this thread which is just over a year ago you just started your first cycle http://forums.steroid.com/new-male-m...rd-member.html

I know people who know who you are and your a fatty,

your just pissed off because you was shown to be a google ninja on this board and other boards, your also extremely jealous because you always mention my size that's something you'll never have.

Anyone who knows me knows I am a very cocky big cvnt so that doesn't go with your self esteem issues and of course I am pale I live in the UK its bloody freezing lol

Angel I am sorry for this but over the yrs I do get some jealously coming my way from people who have been outed.

Now stop going on with yourself yet again, I didn't quote you so don't respond to me in future, if you want to carry on your childish jealous games pm otherwise go and train for gods sake you need it.

[Times Roman]

Roman, each time I set out all the little niggles of what I wanted, in my next vehicle, I searched the adverts for cars that met my criteria, and ended up with 8 cars, nationwide, from which to choose (not that this is a big island, but still, I think I started with over 8000 cars on the market). I'm too picky. I also have externally imposed constraints because my son is a cellist and I have to accommodate the instrument, which is large. But I drive the kid around a lot (who doesn't when they get to a certain age?), and I enjoy cars. At the moment my road car is one I bought to be practical, and I am so miserable in it that I am thinking of barbecuing it because I just don't think I can relax until it does not even exist any more. So I'm being picky this time.

actually, the Cello and the case is a fairly large package, larger than most "econo" cars are equipped to handle. Best of the bunch might be a hatchback with rear seats that fold down.

I mean damn! A Cello and case are what? 4.5 feet tall, or a meter and a half? and deep too. I'm thinking 10" deep, or well, too late to mentally do the conversion, but you get the idea.

Pre Afghanistan, my life long passion was Harleys and never any thought to cars. but for some strange reason, just a couple of years in a post conflict war zone, always in an armoured vehicle, with body guards, and I dont' seem to be riding the Harley as much. only two times this year.

I've always had piece of shit cars to drive. And it never bothered me. I mean, who cares? it's a car! But this last time I came home, with a big pile of cash in the bank, I started talking of paying cash for a new corvette. I didn't, but the temptation was there. So I can understand a little bit of the "being picky" thing you mention. Tall women need to have a little leg room, and a little vroom on the broom doesn't hurt either!

[DCI]

A friend has those new sport cups on his //M3, and I meant to ask him about them, but we got sidetracked because he's developed some new ceramic/kevlar pads that I had to hear about. I've got PS2 at the moment, but I had a look at the reviews for the sport cup 3, and it's almost all positive. Thanks for the rec.

E90 or the new model m3??

Get a spin in it asap my friend and did 6 trackdays in his evo x and only now are the super sports he had on the car worn away so they can stand abuse tbh.

I had carbon lorraine cl6 pads on one of my cars they were absolutely insane pads gobbled discs at speed tho lol

[thisAngelBites]

Imagine a cello on a harley? The closest photo I could find was a scooter.

Yeah, it's about 1.5 feet high, nearly 2 feet wide at the bottom bout, and about 13-14 inches deep at the bridge. It fits in an Audi A6 boot with no problem, a 7 series beemer boot with a little finagling, and it fits sideways in my husband's E class merc (the biggest boot I have ever seen). It didn't fit in my old 5 series except across the back seat. It will fit in some hatchbacks, but if I had my choice, I would close it in a boot so I can just leave it hidden if I need to pop in somewhere. As cellos go, it's not an expensive one, but still worth about $10k, to give you an idea, and I just wouldn't want to deal with someone breaking in and nicking it.

I can't find a car with a closed boot that it will fit in that meets my other criteria, so I am looking at an e90 with the 60/40 folding seats, and I am just going to have to deal with the neck sticking into the car where people can see it.

And yes, I definitely require a certain displacement/power/torque , even on my everyday car - that limits my choices, and I am also thinking about fuel economy since I'll be driving further distances to school now. And as you pointed out, I am tall, and I have long legs. Fortunately the german cars tend to cater for us tall broads. (Oops, I love that word, but I usually refrain since Austinite has a copyright on it, but since he's not around, he won't mind me picking up the 'broad' slack, I'm sure.)

actually, the Cello and the case is a fairly large package, larger than most "econo" cars are equipped to handle. Best of the bunch might be a hatchback with rear seats that fold down.

I mean damn! A Cello and case are what? 4.5 feet tall, or a meter and a half? and deep too. I'm thinking 10" deep, or well, too late to mentally do the conversion, but you get the idea.

Pre Afghanistan, my life long passion was Harleys and never any thought to cars. but for some strange reason, just a couple of years in a post conflict war zone, always in an armoured vehicle, with body guards, and I dont' seem to be riding the Harley as much. only two times this year.

I've always had piece of shit cars to drive. And it never bothered me. I mean, who cares? it's a car! But this last time I came home, with a big pile of cash in the bank, I started talking of paying cash for a new corvette. I didn't, but the temptation was there. So I can understand a little bit of the "being picky" thing you mention. Tall women need to have a little leg room, and a little vroom on the broom doesn't hurt either!

[thisAngelBites]

E90 or the new model m3??

Get a spin in it asap my friend and did 6 trackdays in his evo x and only now are the super sports he had on the car worn away so they can stand abuse tbh.

I had carbon lorraine cl6 pads on one of my cars they were absolutely insane pads gobbled discs at speed tho lol

He has two m3s! An e90 V8 and e46 both, but the sport cups are on the e90. I will make it a point to get over there and try them out (he's a couple of hours away, and I don't get over there as much as I should, but I just found out about a former airfield about 40 minutes from my house, so maybe I can get him to bring it over here).

He has been unfortunate enough to witness my driving in my street car, and is urging me to use his ceramic/kevlar pads, but I was wondering how discs would wear. But then out here in the evening it is easy enough to do 130 on the motorway, so it probably is a smart choice. Have you upgraded brakes in your daily driver?

[DCI]

The E46 M3 imo is the ultimate rwd sports coupe ever produced definete icon imo. The S54 engine is a beast and amazingly takes to forced induction really well too.

The E90 is great but less good as the E46 because that car was just so good tbh. And the E90's aren't as raw to drive and unfortunetly quite a bit slower than my buddies MKIV TT Supra ha.

Yeh the Carbon Lorraines where in my daily was funny when I was fitting them all over the box was written for track use only lol. But they worked even in the winter really really well. The discs I got where Mtec a Uk Company great products friend uses their discs on his 156 GTA trackcar has done 1500miles on track with no issues and uses Ferodo DS2500 pads.

[thisAngelBites]

The E46 M3 imo is the ultimate rwd sports coupe ever produced definete icon imo. The S54 engine is a beast and amazingly takes to forced induction really well too.

The E90 is great but less good as the E46 because that car was just so good tbh. And the E90's aren't as raw to drive and unfortunetly quite a bit slower than my buddies MKIV TT Supra ha.

Yeh the Carbon Lorraines where in my daily was funny when I was fitting them all over the box was written for track use only lol. But they worked even in the winter really really well. The discs I got where Mtec a Uk Company great products friend uses their discs on his 156 GTA trackcar has done 1500miles on track with no issues and uses Ferodo DS2500 pads.

Yeah, I can't imagine why the CLs are a problem in winter as long as you warm them up a bit. I'm not familiar with Mtec I'll look them up - thanks for mentioning them.

[DCI]

The E46 M3 imo is the ultimate rwd sports coupe ever produced definete icon imo. The S54 engine is a beast and amazingly takes to forced induction really well too.

The E90 is great but less good as the E46 because that car was just so good tbh. And the E90's aren't as raw to drive and unfortunetly quite a bit slower than my buddies MKIV TT Supra ha.

Yeh the Carbon Lorraines where in my daily was funny when I was fitting them all over the box was written for track use only lol. But they worked even in the winter really really well. The discs I got where Mtec a Uk Company great products friend uses their discs on his 156 GTA trackcar has done 1500miles on track with no issues and uses Ferodo DS2500 pads.

[DCI]

Yeah, I can't imagine why the CLs are a problem in winter as long as you warm them up a bit. I'm not familiar with Mtec I'll look them up - thanks for mentioning them.

They get warm really fast anyway due to the drag coeffiecent they have. Its insane you keep pedal pressure constant from high speed and within 2 secs of applying the same preasure the reduction in speed is crazy and it keeps building I will warn you they are awful speeky in traffic like race car sqeeky but they are epic in every other way tbh.

I've put mtec discs on everything I own and a friend has em on his modded 535D E60 and has never had issue with them and his car is running big power too

[thisAngelBites]

The talk about the e46s made me nostalgic and on my ride into London this afternoon I ended up thinking about my old e46 - I sold it this summer (but it was not an m3 - it was just a 328i). It was an old N reg I've had for yonks and it needed some suspension work and I didn't feel like throwing a bunch of money into it, given that I already have other cars that eat my money. So I sold it to a kid who was looking to rip the engine out to drop into his current car, but he recently wrote to me to tell me that he's decided to restore it since it was in such great shape. It was a fun little car for what it was, for sure.

Ah, I'm glad you mentioned the brakes squealing - that drives me crazy. I'm the sort of person that prefers a sleeper to a hot looking car, so I don't like calling attention and the squealing does my head in. I wish someone would invent something quiet but amazing for street use - I don't mind on track days. Oh well.

[DCI]

Wow yeh E46 was a brilliant step up from the awful E36 tbh.

328i is a peach of an engine and for its time had good power too and sounded lovely.

Get a set of Ferodo DS2500 then so not as good as the CL's but the CL's are in a different ball park tbh.