Protien intake and AS.... whats the fucking truth!?

[bumdart420]

Recently I came across an article mentioning that bodybuilders on the juice are able to take in and use more protien than non steroid users. Well, I weigh 200 pounds and I don't use alot of powders ( cause the body can only assimulate about 16% of the protien in shakes), I can't take in enough protien in a day simply because if the human body can only break down 30 grams of protien every three hours, that means I would never sleep cause I'd have to eat throughout the night. How the fuck can these guys say they eat 1000 grams of protien a day or 500 for that matter?! I don't care what juice your on, theres no way a guy can take in that much! Whats the deal with protien consumption?! Just how much protien can a guy injest for good quality gains? If someone here says they EAT 300 grams of protien a day, please tell me what you are eating and when? Is the 30 grams every three hours bullshit?! THANKS!!

[tallyjuice]

Your body can ingest 30 grams/hour not three hours.

[Pete235]

No flame meant bro, but who told you the body can only assimulate 16% of the protein in powders? I'm not doubting the validity of your statement but I've never heard that and would be VERY interested in more info.

[Mr. Fina]

Originally posted by tallyjuice
Your body can ingest 30 grams/hour not three hours.

Not accurate. Depends upon body metabolism, protein, and what the body needs.

30g's can take anywhere from 1-6 hours to metabolize. For most active people it takes 2 hours. Breaking down protein into amino acids is not the simplest task for the human body. That is why alot of people get gas and indegestion form protein.

[JP1570]

Where did you get that 16% figure from? Anything to back that up? Just curious
LOL, beat me to it Pete

[Mr. Fina]

The 16% is low. Depends upon what protein you drink and how it is manufactured. Whey isolate is the easiest and quickest for your body to digest. When you find 5lb jugs of whey for twenty bucks than you are getting shit. You get for what you pay for.

[JP1570]

What about the protein with added digestive enzymes??? THink that makes a difference????

[Gear101]

How about adding some eggs in the morning? They are a great source of protien . Here is my revised diet, so you can get an idea of how much protien I eat ED.
Wake up...
1. 55 gram protien shake and 6 oz yogurt
2. omlette with 2 whole eggs and 4 egg whites, cheese and hamburger
3. steak or fish with sweat potatoes
4. chicken or fish and a small apple
6. 55 gram protien shake
7. meat with broccoli and cheese sauce
8. 55 gram protien shake, snack on swiss cheese occasionally
bedtime...
9. wake up to go pee, and drink a 55 gram protien shake

I revised my diet because I was losing to much weight to fast. I added 1 meal ED. As you can see I eat roughly 500 grams of protien ED! Almost 300 from whole foods alone. I have dropped a lot of Bf in the last 10 days and kept all of my muscle size. hell, I actually put on 1/2 inch in my biceps and lost over an 1 1/2 inches in my waste! Some of it was water though.

[Mr. Fina]

Yes, enzymes are very helpful. Speeds up the reaction while lowering activation energy.

[superbeast]

I'm not in the mood to get into this but.....

Any protein that your body doesn't use to make muscle, is burned for energy or stored for fat. It doesn't magically disappear because you took in too much.

Protein is not all the same. The most important thing to do is take in protein from different sources. This way you get a complete amino acid profile. All these numbers are bullshit. It depends on your body, metabolism, amount of muscle, the body's needs. I take in 50g at a time, 10 times a day. I even set the alarm to have a shake in the middle of the night.

A trained body is capable of much more than the couch potatoes that are used for most of this research.

[bex]

Answers to your meatiest questions about protein, the key element in a bodybuilder's nutrition program.

By Jose Antonio


Protein, from the Greek word meaning "of prime importance," is a key component of the bodybuilder's nutritional program. Just as glucose serves as the building block of glycogen, amino acids serve as the building blocks of proteins. One of the most important components of your cells, protein is involved in formation of contractile tissue or muscle, it makes up a large part of the structural component of cells, it's part of enzymes, antibodies, blood . . . you name it, protein is part of it.

Even though the primary function of protein is to provide the needed amino acids to maintain an anabolic state, it may also be used as a fuel source. This usually occurs to a greater degree when you're in a carbohydrate-depleted state (for example, on a low-carb diet, exercising continuously for more than two hours). Yet what most bodybuilders want is to maintain the absolute highest levels of anabolism or muscle-building possible. The way scientists measure this is through something called nitrogen balance.

Remember that one of the components of protein is the nitrogen molecule. In fact, nitrogen makes up about 16% of protein. So when you eat protein, you're also taking in nitrogen. If you want to put on muscle, you must avoid a negative nitrogen balance, where you take in less protein than you degrade. A positive nitrogen balance exists when your protein intake exceeds protein degradation.

How Much Protein Should Bodybuilders Consume?

Talk about a controversial topic! I've met many physicians and dietitians who claim that "too much" protein is harmful. Yet Peter W.R. Lemon, PhD, a prominent expert in the field of protein and exercise research from the Applied Physiology Research Laboratory at Kent State University in Ohio, believes the hazards of eating a high-protein diet are overstated. I agree. No scientific evidence states that consuming two or even three times the Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA) for protein is harmful for a normal, healthy and exercising individual.

Certainly, if you have damaged kidneys, then the work they need to perform to eliminate excess nitrogen would make it wise to avoid excess protein. But I haven't found any evidence that eating 1 or more grams of protein per pound of bodyweight every day has a harmful effect. In fact, in cultures where high protein intake is common, no evidence suggests that the population suffers from kidney problems. You could say the same for bodybuilders, although I'd caution that if you do consume a lot of protein, you should also drink a lot of water to avoid possible dehydration.

Suffice to say that the RDA of 0.8 grams of protein per 2.2 pounds (1 kg) of bodyweight per day is grossly inadequate for bodybuilders and athletes in general. Although muscle-protein degradation or breakdown increases during exercise, muscle-protein synthesis significantly increases for at least 24 hours after either resistance or endurance exercise. If you don't get adequate protein during this time, it would make sense that you probably won't grow or get stronger. Current research suggests that 1.5-2.0 grams of protein per 2.2 pounds of bodyweight per day is needed for those individuals interested in packing on some mass.

What Kind of Protein Should You Eat?

Basically, the protein you eat should have the entire complement of essential amino acids (they're called essential because you need to eat them; your body doesn't make them). They include branched-chains (valine, leucine, isoleucine), lysine, methionine, phenylalanine, threonine and tryptophan. Histidine is also essential for infants, and arginine for kids, who can't make it as well as adults. The body makes cysteine from methionine and tyrosine from phenylalanine, so you might say that cysteine and tyrosine are conditionally essential. Incomplete proteins, such as from peanuts, don't contain the necessary balance of all the essential amino acids.

Scientists compare the quality of protein sources through the Biological Value (BV), which measures the amount of protein retained per gram of protein absorbed. If a given protein provides all the essential amino acids in the correct proportions and is readily absorbed, its BV score will approach 100. On the other hand, if the protein is deficient in one essential amino acid, its BV score will be much lower.

Before the widespread use of whey protein, the protein sources with the highest BV (and which were used to establish the BV scale) were whole egg and human milk (BV = 100). Whey protein has a BV of about 159, even higher than whole eggs. Not only will whey protein help you put on muscle, but this stuff has potent effects on the immune system. In fact, a study by R. Kennedy, et al, found that whey protein helped stabilize or reverse tumor growth in patients with metastatic carcinoma.

When Should You Eat Protein?

The underlying mechanisms governing muscle growth aren't completely understood at this point, but we do know this: In order to experience a net growth in muscle mass, muscle anabolism must exceed muscle catabolism. That is, you need to feed your muscles with amino acids, glucose and fat to get them as big as your rottweiler. Is that why bodybuilders eat constantly? To bathe their muscle cells in an anabolic cocktail of aminos and other muscle building blocks?

On the basis of several animal studies, scientists have suggested that muscle-protein synthesis increases within 1-2 hours after exercise. In rats, just one bout of eccentric exercise has been shown to elevate total mixed and myofibrillar protein synthetic rates up to 65% for up to 41 hours.

In a recent study conducted at McMaster University in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada, J.D. MacDougall and colleagues used six resistance-trained males to examine how weight training impacts protein synthesis. Test subjects performed a "typical" bodybuilding workout and, using technology not available at your local gym, muscle-protein synthesis from the biceps brachii was determined four, 24 and 36 hours after exercise. The researchers found that muscle-protein synthesis was increased at four and 24 hours after exercise, but returned to pre-exercise levels after 36 hours following exercise.

The finding that muscle-protein synthesis is elevated for a day after exercise is important. I've heard many times that muscles grow when you aren't exercising, especially when you sleep. This is why bodybuilders eat like cows (grazers) instead of pigs (gorgers), although I've met a bodybuilder or two who were more like pigs.

But how much protein should you eat at once, and how often should you eat it? Several schools of thought exist on how much protein to eat at one sitting. Based anecdotally on what I've seen work well in many people, it seems that 30-40 grams of protein at a time is plenty. I've heard accounts of bodybuilders consuming as much as three times that amount, but I haven't seen any data indicating whether that amount is necessary or beneficial. As to how often to eat protein, I'd have to say about every three hours. Your digestive system is able to process protein relatively frequently, and keeping a steady supply on hand (or in your stomach, as the case may be) ensures that your muscles will have access to the raw materials needed to synthesize new tissue.

[superbeast]

Nice work, Bexsome!

[bumdart420]

Originally posted by bexsome
Answers to your meatiest questions about protein, the key element in a bodybuilder's nutrition program.

But how much protein should you eat at once, and how often should you eat it? Several schools of thought exist on how much protein to eat at one sitting. Based anecdotally on what I've seen work well in many people, it seems that 30-40 grams of protein at a time is plenty. I've heard accounts of bodybuilders consuming as much as three times that amount, but I haven't seen any data indicating whether that amount is necessary or beneficial. As to how often to eat protein, I'd have to say about every three hours. Your digestive system is able to process protein relatively frequently, and keeping a steady supply on hand (or in your stomach, as the case may be) ensures that your muscles will have access to the raw materials needed to synthesize new tissue.

Thanks for this info, but I'm afraid the author contradicts himself. First he says its possible to consume 2 grams of protien per pound of body weight, then he says in the above paragraph that you should eat 30-40 grams every three hours. If you do the math that means in a 12-14 hour day (while were awake), we would only consume 120-160 grams of protein and that isn't enough for me, cause I weigh 200 pounds! There is no way possible a person could injest 400 grams of protien a day if the body can only take in 30 grams every three hours! You would have to stay awake for 36 hours straight to get all the peotien you needed! I would like to thank everyone for their responses but know I'm confused as hell.
By the way, I got the info about the body only being able to take in about 16-20% of the protien in powders from some students who graduated nutrition and excercise science at a local university. I'll try to find out more when I have time. Later

[Kaz]

Originally posted by bumdart420


......120-160 grams of protein and that isn't enough for me, cause I weigh 200 pounds! .....

think yourself lucky bro! i weigh in at 315 lbs so i need sh*tloads of the stuff!

bexsome: excellent post bro!

[Tankass]

Damn KAZ 315! You must be a huge mofo. Care to post a pic?

[Methuselah]

Originally posted by bumdart420


Thanks for this info, but I'm afraid the author contradicts himself. First he says its possible to consume 2 grams of protien per pound of body weight, then he says in the above paragraph that you should eat 30-40 grams every three hours. If you do the math that means in a 12-14 hour day (while were awake), we would only consume 120-160 grams of protein and that isn't enough for me, cause I weigh 200 pounds! There is no way possible a person could injest 400 grams of protien a day if the body can only take in 30 grams every three hours! You would have to stay awake for 36 hours straight to get all the peotien you needed! I would like to thank everyone for their responses but know I'm confused as hell.
By the way, I got the info about the body only being able to take in about 16-20% of the protien in powders from some students who graduated nutrition and excercise science at a local university. I'll try to find out more when I have time. Later

I don't think that it was contradictory, just some examples. Others say that you can eat 60g per 3 hours. Just keep eating it! Your body will tell when it's had enough.

[ripped_82]

Originally posted by tallyjuice
Your body can ingest 30 grams/hour not three hours.

It all depends on how much lean muscle tissue you have. And on certain AAS you can consume 500 grms per day.Equipoise has a very favorable effect on the organism's nitrogen balance so that the main effect consists of a distinctly increased protein synthesis in the muscle cell.

[Kaz]

Originally posted by gsims
Damn KAZ 315! You must be a huge mofo. Care to post a pic?

have a little hunt in the pics forum - i posted there when i first became a member

[superbeast]

I'm not sure anybody knows what they're arguing about. Are you arguing about the amount of protein needed and used by muscle, or are you arguing about the amount that the digestive system can handle?

[heavyonly]

I really think that most research on protien, or carbs for that matter is tainted. It seams that just about every study is done with the average Joe/Jane as the standard. Some studies do refer to 'fit' persons but I don't believe that the true bodybuilder goes into that catagory.

I honestly believe that 90% of our population is in total denial when it comes to fitness and health. I mean, when the experts say that walking 20min. a day is good enough you have to wonder what standards they are using. Just look around you next time you're in a crowded resturant and see how 'out of the norm' you really are.

Heavyonly says this. "If you can only use 30g of protien every 3 hours, you ain't working hard enough."

"Death to skinny science turbo nerds"

[eradikate]

ohh is that why sometimes i fart so much???one time i had such bad gas my friends almost ran away from me that night!! i drank about 5 shakes that day with 35g each, ate tuna, chicken for breakfast, chicket cutlet for lunch, a lil steak for brunch, and a BIG JUICY steak for dinner with some rice. i should watch on my protein intake huh? don't wanna gas the whole room...

[$uperman]

dude.... gas from protein shakes are the worse too. while i was taking nitro tech i was burning peoples nose hairs out

[Methuselah]

Originally posted by $uperman
dude.... gas from protein shakes are the worse too. while i was taking nitro tech i was burning peoples nose hairs out

There is one thing that is worse... Shaklee carbo crunch bars, watch out!

Seriously, this is an arguement of speculation. Eat what you need. Your body will tell you when enough is enough.

[Dr. Derek]

I'm very sure that other people have experienced this before but here is how I know that I have had to much protien. My sweat smells like ammonia....... It's toxic time to back of the protien abit.

[devilscabanaboy19]

I definitely agree with Heavy on this one. Bodybuilders tax their muscles to the brink (and sometimes over it) so of course the muscle they just thrashed is going to absorb 3x as much protein as the average Joe sitting on the couch. P.S. anything strawberry by EAS makes your ass smell like a dead carcass!

[D00fy]

Protein farts are evil,especially from EGG WHITES ,to many egg whites a day tend to give u major stank protein farts

[superbeast]

Eat a few Tums each day. They have calcium, something your body needs anyway.

Works for me and I average between 400 to 500 grams a day. The more muscle you have to support, the more protein you need. Don't buy into all this crap you read.

[seeker]

Gas is a classic sign of eating too much protein in one meal. It means all the extra protein didn't get digested and was wasted, sitting in the intestines building up gas from bacteria feeding off it instead. No one can digest 50 grams of protein or more in a meal, it is an issue of your digestive system not your muscle mass or metabolism. Most people can't even digest more than 30 grams per meal. 30-40 grams per meal is a good amount to shoot for. And it takes 2-3 hours to fully digest a meal so if your think you can go ahead and digest 30 more grams an hour later you will just be interrupting the current digestive cycle to put in more protein it can't handle yet anyway.

[Nixter]

Gas is a classic sign of eating too much protein in one meal. It means all the extra protein didn't get digested and was wasted.

This is why poor quality protein powders give you gas. If they don't absorb, they turn into farts! Since I've been using cold filtered, isolates, I have no gas. Not like that Gnc garbage. I had so much gas I think I weighed less on the scales.

Nixter.

[johnsomebody]

I gotta say, I used to buy that 30/g max/meal thing for years and it really held me back. I was getting only 180g/day max and after I got up to 215lbs I just stopped gaining.

I stayed like that for 15 years, thinking I'd reached my natural limit. Then when I upped the protein to 230/day I immediately started making gains in the gym and I gained 23 more pounds in a couple years.

So I wasted 15 years believing that canard.

From what I've read I think Seeker's right too, about excess causing gas -the protein is apparently actually rotting in there! I was taking about 350g/day while on EQ -it started giving me gas then stopped immediately after the EQ kicked in and never bothered me again. Same diet, same proteins, I think it's just that my body was now using it.

Just my .02.

[b-john]

can your body take a over dose of protein if you comsume to much would it affect your kidneys and what would the side affects be
anyone know

[Quake]

This is a blast from the past!

But, yes there are toxicity levels to protein intake which have a direct effect on liver and kidneys, but if you are just starting to get your diet in order for training and are looking to hit the 2grams per pound of body weight a day of protein intake, start off slowly. Don't jump this level of protein intake into your diet immediately, build up your protein intake gradually and this will give your liver and kidneys a chance to get used to the demands that you will be putting on them. Everything in moderation!!!!!

[bluethunder]

Why is this old thread here?? Some Excess will be can be used for energy, conversion to fat. Most is excreted in urine as nitrogen urea & ketones. Kidneys /liver require more water too.

[Gear101]

and no one had talk about protein farts yet.. lol

that can be a bad thing.. about 400mg ed they start one me