Newbie needs help for creating first cycle

[A_Giant_Bear]

Hello all. This is my first post. I was planning on starting my first cycle over the summer. I am 6' 8" and 275 lbs currently. I have no idea on my body fat percentage as my gym doesn't even have an electric thing to calculate that. I am about a week away from being 22 years old. I am currently weightlifting (bench max 245 squat max 405) and jogging about 1.5 - 2 miles a day. I am on a pretty strict diet. I eat alot of chicken and tuna for dinner generally, oatmeal with milk and fruit for breakfast, and for lunch I generally have a sandwich, fruit, and veggies. I also try to eat as much carbs as possible and have a Whey protein shake (similar to myoplex with less sugar) daily. I want to bulk with this cycle. I am looking for the best stuff to give me large lasting strength gains. I hope this is helpful for people giving me advice on the following questions.

1. I was planning on taking sus and deca. I have heard that I should inject sus EOD. I really don't care about how many injections I have to do. How many mg should I take weekly and how much should I use per injection? How many injections per week of each? Also sus and deca are not set in stone for me so please give me your advice. I do not want to take any oral steroid because of the increased occurance of side effects.

2. What anti-estrogens should I take? I was planning on Nolva. Is there anything else I should take in addition to the nolva during cycle and/or post cycle.

3. How long should my cycle of sus, deca, nolva, etc. last?

4. How much is this going to cost me for quality pharmaceutical grade stuff?

Thanks alot.

[seanw]

For your first cycle I would ditch the Sust and Deca and just use Test E or Test C

wk 1-12 Test E or Test C 500mg/week
wk 1-12 Nolvadex 10mg ED

PCT
start 18 days after the Last shot

Day 1 300mg Clomid
Day 2-11 150mg Clomid
Day 12-31 50mg Clomid

Day 1-31 20mg Nolvadex

[GearAholic]

Hello all. This is my first post. I was planning on starting my first cycle over the summer. I am 6' 8" and 275 lbs currently. I have no idea on my body fat percentage as my gym doesn't even have an electric thing to calculate that. I am about a week away from being 22 years old. I am currently weightlifting (bench max 245 squat max 405) and jogging about 1.5 - 2 miles a day. I am on a pretty strict diet. I eat alot of chicken and tuna for dinner generally, oatmeal with milk and fruit for breakfast, and for lunch I generally have a sandwich, fruit, and veggies. I also try to eat as much carbs as possible and have a Whey protein shake (similar to myoplex with less sugar) daily. I want to bulk with this cycle. I am looking for the best stuff to give me large lasting strength gains. I hope this is helpful for people giving me advice on the following questions.

1. I was planning on taking sus and deca. I have heard that I should inject sus EOD. I really don't care about how many injections I have to do. How many mg should I take weekly and how much should I use per injection? How many injections per week of each? Also sus and deca are not set in stone for me so please give me your advice. I do not want to take any oral steroid because of the increased occurance of side effects.

2. What anti-estrogens should I take? I was planning on Nolva. Is there anything else I should take in addition to the nolva during cycle and/or post cycle.

3. How long should my cycle of sus, deca, nolva, etc. last?

4. How much is this going to cost me for quality pharmaceutical grade stuff?

Thanks alot.

1st off i wouldn't take sust for my 1st cycle u should stick to a single longer lasting ester like cyp or enth. so u can get a better feel of how your body reacts to the gear, i know u said your not afraid of the frequent injections but injecting 750mg a week on your 1st cycle i would def not recommend its quite a waste in my personal opinion because with you being new to the game u should be able to respond quite well to lower dosages as for the deca thats up to you but i always liek to keep my deca/eq 100-200mgs lower than my test...read around the board get educated and learn a little more so you can grasp how the drugs should be used correctly come up with your cycle and post it for a critique..how much is it going to cost you is going to depend on your source
~GA~

[hawkeye1877]

i would try some test E and EQ, tahts what my first one was, and it worked great. Just my opinion though. If you want any dosage suggsetions do a search there are plenty of threads on it also don't forget proper PCT of clomid and novla

[A_Giant_Bear]

When you guys refer to test e you mean testosterone enanthate correct? What is test EQ? Why are these tests better for a first timer? Is there a section of this site which gives a breakdown of the common tests and other injectibles and explains the side effects, type of results, recommended doses and stacks, etc.? You guys have been really helpful so far and I thank you.

[Flynman]

Read the steroid profile page when you sign on its at the top of the column.

[FuTuReOFtheSPORT]

hey bro u might wanna consider training natural for awhile longer until u get ur maxs up. U should b benching WAY more then that 4 being that big. I'd work out natural more. JMHO

[A_Giant_Bear]

The reason the maxes are small is because I have been hit with a hard case of the injury bug over the last few years. I've had 4 spiral fractures on my hand with required 2 surgeries, a broken tibia and fibia with a dislocated ankle which required surgery, a 6 month case of mono, and a three month lung infection. I train pretty hard and even without steroids those maxes will be up about 100 pounds each by august. I work out 5 days a week twice a day with probably 4 hours in the gym a day. I use all the advanced techniques outlined in arnold's encyclopedia (trisets, negative reps, forced reps, cheat reps, etc.)

Thanks for the advice, but I'm pretty set on juicing.

[A_Giant_Bear]

I decided against using testosterone ethanate because of the increased water retention, less gains after stopping the cycle, higher prices, greater risk of increased blood pressure (bad hearts in my family), and higher risk of bitch tits.

I think I'm still leaning towards sust. The soreness and increased shots I can definately handle. I also like that it kicks in quick. Plus one of my good high school friends used sust 250 and got exceptional results. Would 500 mg a week of sust and 300-400 mg of deca at the peak of the cycle a week be too much for a first time user? Keep in mind I am 6' 8" 275. Would I be throwing my money away by stacking it with deca for a first cycle? I was thinking of an eight week cycle because that seems to be the norm when stacking these two.

I also take 100mg tab of Wellbutrin a day which is a very small dose. Should I stop this before starting my cycle? How much alcohol could I drink with this cycle if at all on a weekend?

Thanks for the advice, I appreciate all comments.

[niXon)(]

With all these questions, if i was you i would sit down and read the site for a while. most of the questions can be answered with common sense ie. drinking...to be safe i would stick with test for the first time, but if you want to do both i dont think it would be an overkill for your first time. good luck

[zuke]

you won't have to worry about the water retention if you are taking nolvadex with it. i am taking sus right now for the first time. so far, i would have to say that i like enanthate better

[J.S.N.]

The reason the maxes are small is because I have been hit with a hard case of the injury bug over the last few years. I've had 4 spiral fractures on my hand with required 2 surgeries, a broken tibia and fibia with a dislocated ankle which required surgery, a 6 month case of mono, and a three month lung infection. I train pretty hard and even without steroids those maxes will be up about 100 pounds each by august. I work out 5 days a week twice a day with probably 4 hours in the gym a day. I use all the advanced techniques outlined in arnold's encyclopedia (trisets, negative reps, forced reps, cheat reps, etc.)

Thanks for the advice, but I'm pretty set on juicing.

first off, it's nice you have an excuse for not lifting much, but it still doesn't change the fact that you really need to get those numbers up. not being able to bench bodyweight is nutzo.

second, if you're not lifting alot you are almost certainly overtraining by using advanced techniques. you should really being try to push heavier on the big compound movements, not doing supersets and neg's and drop sets and going all nuts.

try training in the 4-6 rep range for a while, once you can do say 230 for 4-6 sets, ramp the weight up, and keep doing it as you get stronger.

[A_Giant_Bear]

Sorry dude, but supersetting doesn't mean that you can't do strength training as well. You can easily do a 4 rep set of curls then a 4 rep set of tris. I'm not overtraining. I've been doing this a long time, I know what I'm doing.

And limiting my workouts solely to strength training seems more nutzoid to me. I think I'll keep my power and endurance training as well.

[J.S.N.]

that's called running and explosive lifts.

if you're 275 and bench like 240, you're prolly borderline obese, and people with that body composition aren't generally known for endurance/power/athleticism.

[1819]

first off. what are your goals and reasons for juicin? are you an athlete? do you just want some vanity gains? you listed quite a resume of injuries there for someone so young. taking the plunge is a big decision. with your size i can see you being interested if you're trying to further your football career or somethin. just to get your numbers up at the gym usually not the greatest of reasons for everyone. take some time with this. dont be impatient.

[A_Giant_Bear]

running and explosive lifts? All lifts should be done explosively whether 10 reps or 1. Pretty necessary for building white fast twitch muscle fiber. Hey I may be borderline obese, but why don't you and me compare our gains from now to july. I guarantee you won't gain as much as me, cause it doesn't sound like you know what you're talking about. Then we'll find out whose more athletic lol.

[A_Giant_Bear]

first off. what are your goals and reasons for juicin? are you an athlete? do you just want some vanity gains? you listed quite a resume of injuries there for someone so young. taking the plunge is a big decision. with your size i can see you being interested if you're trying to further your football career or somethin. just to get your numbers up at the gym usually not the greatest of reasons for everyone. take some time with this. dont be impatient.

I am a college rugby player and want to bulk up. I also am a weightlifter and want to lift more. I also want to look better for the ladies, but that can be done with my normal cardio stuff. I have thought about this decision since I was 18. Basically I'm looking for cycle advice from seasoned juice veterans and common sense tips to get the most out of my gear and keep myself the most healthy

[J.S.N.]

actually many strength athletes (esp. bodybuilders) use 4 down, four up reps, thus increasing red, slow twitch muscle fibers as well.

how can you say that i'm the one who doesn't know what he's talking about? have you read your posts?

but you're right i won't gain as much, i like to stay under 400 lbs.- i'm pretty sure ho's prefer a guy who is 230 and cut to someone who is 300 lbs. of flab and water.

[A_Giant_Bear]

actually many strength athletes (esp. bodybuilders) use 4 down, four up reps, thus increasing red, slow twitch muscle fibers as well.

how can you say that i'm the one who doesn't know what he's talking about? have you read your posts?

but you're right i won't gain as much, i like to stay under 400 lbs.- i'm pretty sure ho's prefer a guy who is 230 and cut to someone who is 300 lbs. of flab and water.

Yea, im well aware of training of the slow twitch fibers as well. You confused training for muscular power with being explosive in lifts.

I'm sick of your **** moron. You have no ****ing clue of what you speak. HAVE YOU READ YOUR POSTS. Cause about two back you tried to tell me that aerobics(running) is the same as training for muscular endurance. You also tried to tell me that you can't strength train using supersets, which is moronic. See how far you get without using supersets, reverse reps, and other advanced techniques without hitting a plateau. You also claimed that I was overtraining without even knowing my regiment.

I was refering to pounds added to exercises, not lean muscle added to bodies. But I'm positive I'll beat you in both categories.

You try having half of the circumstances I've had and come back to lifting and then you can speak.

Get the fuk out of my thread a$$hole.

[talltanman]

Yea, im well aware of training of the slow twitch fibers as well. You confused training for muscular power with being explosive in lifts.

I'm sick of your **** moron. You have no ****ing clue of what you speak. HAVE YOU READ YOUR POSTS. Cause about two back you tried to tell me that aerobics(running) is the same as training for muscular endurance. You also tried to tell me that you can't strength train using supersets, which is moronic. See how far you get without using supersets, reverse reps, and other advanced techniques without hitting a plateau. You also claimed that I was overtraining without even knowing my regiment.

I was refering to pounds added to exercises, not lean muscle added to bodies. But I'm positive I'll beat you in both categories.

You try having half of the circumstances I've had and come back to lifting and then you can speak.

Get the fuk out of my thread a$$hole.

Hey bro, Take it easy.
A lot of very experienced guys (not me) are simply not going to help you with that attittude. I am by no means an expert. However the first step I feel you should take next would be to go to the diet forum. There is a guy that post there all the time, his name is Swole Cat. Read some of the stickies at the top of the page. You are definetly not eating correctly. All of this knowledge shall come in time. I'm not trying to be a dick, but if you fire back at everyone whom tries to help the Mods, Vets, & experienced members are not going to wast there time on you. These are the guys who you want to listen to the most. JMHO

talltanman

[A_Giant_Bear]

Hey bro, Take it easy.
A lot of very experienced guys (not me) are simply not going to help you with that attittude. I am by no means an expert. However the first step I feel you should take next would be to go to the diet forum. There is a guy that post there all the time, his name is Swole Cat. Read some of the stickies at the top of the page. You are definetly not eating correctly. All of this knowledge shall come in time. I'm not trying to be a dick, but if you fire back at everyone whom tries to help the Mods, Vets, & experienced members are not going to wast there time on you. These are the guys who you want to listen to the most. JMHO

talltanman

I'm not trying to have an attitude. But that guy was being a real ass and giving me wrong information about lifting which I didn't ask for in the first place. I posted this thread for help in creating my first cycle. He was being a dick calling me weak in so many words, and telling me I didn't know how to train when in fact he was the one giving wrong info. He turned my thread into a flamewar and answered none of my questions. He is a junior member with 60 posts and while I'm not trying to piss off the mods and vets that guy was giving wrong info and if firing at him means I get no more wrong info, i am very happy. He is a troll posting incorrect information to newbs like myself who want input from people who know what they are talking about.

As for the weight loss, its being done already and I will be looking at the stuff you told me to.

[k@m NYC]

Hello all. This is my first post. I was planning on starting my first cycle over the summer. I am 6' 8" and 275 lbs currently. I have no idea on my body fat percentage as my gym doesn't even have an electric thing to calculate that. I am about a week away from being 22 years old. I am currently weightlifting (bench max 245 squat max 405) and jogging about 1.5 - 2 miles a day. I am on a pretty strict diet. I eat alot of chicken and tuna for dinner generally, oatmeal with milk and fruit for breakfast, and for lunch I generally have a sandwich, fruit, and veggies. I also try to eat as much carbs as possible and have a Whey protein shake (similar to myoplex with less sugar) daily. I want to bulk with this cycle. I am looking for the best stuff to give me large lasting strength gains. I hope this is helpful for people giving me advice on the following questions.

1. I was planning on taking sus and deca. I have heard that I should inject sus EOD. I really don't care about how many injections I have to do. How many mg should I take weekly and how much should I use per injection? How many injections per week of each? Also sus and deca are not set in stone for me so please give me your advice. I do not want to take any oral steroid because of the increased occurance of side effects.

2. What anti-estrogens should I take? I was planning on Nolva. Is there anything else I should take in addition to the nolva during cycle and/or post cycle.

3. How long should my cycle of sus, deca, nolva, etc. last?

4. How much is this going to cost me for quality pharmaceutical grade stuff?

Thanks alot.

here is something that should be helpful. http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=77975

[J.S.N.]

you're too wimpy to cycle and get maximum benefits. so i suggested training lower reps to increase your strength + stick to compound movements with less advanced techniques, and implied that you were making excuses for your poor lifts, and not being fair to yourself by saying, "yeah my lifts suck but it's because i've had injuries and i wanna cycle no matter what blah blah blah..."

everyone told you to stick w/ test e or cyp alone for your first cycle, but you just shot that down. if you're set on your cycle than do it. **** or get off the pot. if you want people on here to back you up on a less-than-ideal first cycle at a less-than-ideal point in your training, it's not happening in this thread.

btw you have really poor grammar.

[ottomaddox]

I wouldn't take wellbutrin and think about drinking, I'm on 300mgs. a day and I have been on it for many years. I found this excerpt on www.drugstore.com :
WELLBUTRIN SR (BUPROPION HYDROCHLORIDE) and ALCOHOL
Severity: Major

Description: Drinking ALCOHOL (or taking any product containing alcohol) while being treated with BUPROPION may result in an increased risk of seizures.
Drinking alcohol while being treated with bupropion is not recommended. Call your doctor right away for any of the following problems. 1. You are confused. 2. You have changes in mental awareness. 3. You have sudden muscle spasms. 4. You have seizures.
I would do a little more research before embarking on your journey to the dark side.
peace,
otto

I also take 100mg tab of Wellbutrin a day which is a very small dose. Should I stop this before starting my cycle? How much alcohol could I drink with this cycle if at all on a weekend?

Thanks for the advice, I appreciate all comments.

[ottomaddox]

Funny

btw you have really poor grammar.

[whitehulk]

well since your trying to get stronger for rugby you dont need to be barderline obese to play that sport that will jstu put you on the sidelines and not on the field. my reccomend 75mg of winstrol EOD and deca 400mg ev week one shot a week will suffice since it has a long halph life. and bro you really should clean up your attitude you acting like your already on roids. thw winstrol will help you cut your fat alot and give solid keepable strength gains and the deca will just increase these strength gains.
sorry forgot how long to take that
week 1-6 winny 75mg EOD
week 1-6 deca 400mg EW

since your a first time user i suggest a short cycle. that should help you in all aspects as to what you are looking for. as you stated:

I am a college rugby player and want to bulk up. I also am a weightlifter and want to lift more. I also want to look better for the ladies, but that can be done with my normal cardio stuff. I have thought about this decision since I was 18. Basically I'm looking for cycle advice from seasoned juice veterans and common sense tips to get the most out of my gear and keep myself the most healthy

[UK CHRIS]

Ihope a mod or a vet comes in here and gives this guy some decent advice. Deca for six weeks???

[Prime]

Ihope a mod or a vet comes in here and gives this guy some decent advice. Deca for six weeks???

I'm no mod but i feel i may have a few pearls to share
You mention only eating 3 meals a day. If thats the case your diet is in bad shape and needs fixing. Forget the steroids short term, if you are going to use em then thats cool, use em. But push back the start date by say ten weeks. In that ten weeks try and read everything you can both in this forum and just as important if not more so, in the DIET forum. Once your diet is on track you will find you are making good gains without gear. This inturn will give you BETTER gains when you choose to take it.
Now as for your training reigieme. No one lifts for 4 hours a day. Granted it takes dedication to train that long but it isnt nececcarily a good thing. Alot of Arnolds idea and training techniques are simply outdated. Almost no one uses a double split anymore. Remember, you grow outside of the gym, so if you spend all your time working out, when are you ging to grow .

So thats my advice. Take the next ten weeks and simply read everything you can. Read every post where people have problems and see how they are fixed (this will help you if you encounter simmilar ones on cycle etc). Learn everything you can and get your diet in check. In ten weeks you will be better informed with a better diet and (if you are still recovering from your problems) a stronger body. At that point reasess your situation and see if you really are ready to take the next step. If you arent then dont.
I have been waiting to take that step for 2 years and still havent. Theres no point rushing in because once you do you can never go back. (a little dramatic maybe )

[talltanman]

well since your trying to get stronger for rugby you dont need to be barderline obese to play that sport that will jstu put you on the sidelines and not on the field. my reccomend 75mg of winstrol EOD and deca 400mg ev week one shot a week will suffice since it has a long halph life. and bro you really should clean up your attitude you acting like your already on roids. thw winstrol will help you cut your fat alot and give solid keepable strength gains and the deca will just increase these strength gains.
sorry forgot how long to take that
week 1-6 winny 75mg EOD
week 1-6 deca 400mg EW

since your a first time user i suggest a short cycle. that should help you in all aspects as to what you are looking for. as you stated:

[/B]


Do Not take the advice listed above!!!
Most Everyone I'm sure will agree not to take a six week cycle of winny & deca. First of all a six week cycle of anything will not allow you to reach max potential nor will you be likely to retain your gains. At least that is what I have learned in my time here. In addition to this there is a fairly significant concensus that agrees that all cycles should have test as a base for any stack. What do you know about anti e's, or PCT?
I am by no means an expert, I hope that a Mod, Vet, Or Senior Member will chime in here shortly.

talltanman

[talltanman]

I'm no mod but i feel i may have a few pearls to share
You mention only eating 3 meals a day. If thats the case your diet is in bad shape and needs fixing. Forget the steroids short term, if you are going to use em then thats cool, use em. But push back the start date by say ten weeks. In that ten weeks try and read everything you can both in this forum and just as important if not more so, in the DIET forum. Once your diet is on track you will find you are making good gains without gear. This inturn will give you BETTER gains when you choose to take it.
Now as for your training reigieme. No one lifts for 4 hours a day. Granted it takes dedication to train that long but it isnt nececcarily a good thing. Alot of Arnolds idea and training techniques are simply outdated. Almost no one uses a double split anymore. Remember, you grow outside of the gym, so if you spend all your time working out, when are you ging to grow .

So thats my advice. Take the next ten weeks and simply read everything you can. Read every post where people have problems and see how they are fixed (this will help you if you encounter simmilar ones on cycle etc). Learn everything you can and get your diet in check. In ten weeks you will be better informed with a better diet and (if you are still recovering from your problems) a stronger body. At that point reasess your situation and see if you really are ready to take the next step. If you arent then dont.
I have been waiting to take that step for 2 years and still havent. Theres no point rushing in because once you do you can never go back. (a little dramatic maybe )

Thanks Prime, I did not see your Post.
I'm glad someone with some good info came in on this.

[ottomaddox]

Probably the worst advice you could give somebody.

well since your trying to get stronger for rugby you dont need to be barderline obese to play that sport that will jstu put you on the sidelines and not on the field. my reccomend 75mg of winstrol EOD and deca 400mg ev week one shot a week will suffice since it has a long halph life. and bro you really should clean up your attitude you acting like your already on roids. thw winstrol will help you cut your fat alot and give solid keepable strength gains and the deca will just increase these strength gains.
sorry forgot how long to take that
week 1-6 winny 75mg EOD
week 1-6 deca 400mg EW

since your a first time user i suggest a short cycle. that should help you in all aspects as to what you are looking for. as you stated:

[whitehulk]

first off ive the first three cycles i ever did were only 3 weeks long and i never lost any of my gains except water. and deca has a long halph life so 6 weeks inject = 8 weeks of ativity in your blood at optimal levels. and yeah you should put test with that. ill reasses my last post
wk 1-10 test prop
wk 1-9 deca
wk 4-10 winny

that way you can start your pct jstu a few days after your last shot of winny and test
test prop so lil water retention (causes hes so fat already)
deca is still highly active for week 10 and most of 11
and the winny for the strength and hardening and fat loss.

[A_Giant_Bear]

you're too wimpy to cycle and get maximum benefits. so i suggested training lower reps to increase your strength + stick to compound movements with less advanced techniques, and implied that you were making excuses for your poor lifts, and not being fair to yourself by saying, "yeah my lifts suck but it's because i've had injuries and i wanna cycle no matter what blah blah blah..."

everyone told you to stick w/ test e or cyp alone for your first cycle, but you just shot that down. if you're set on your cycle than do it. **** or get off the pot. if you want people on here to back you up on a less-than-ideal first cycle at a less-than-ideal point in your training, it's not happening in this thread.

btw you have really poor grammar.

Dude I'm seriously done responding to you. All you've been is an asshole the whole time to me, not answered a single question i had, and given me bad advice. Limiting my training to muscular strength is a perscription for an injury. As for making excuses for my poor lifts, if I could have lifted legs with 2 broken bones and 4 torn ligaments I would have. If I could have lifted arms with four broken metacarpals I would have. If I could have ran with a broken leg I would have. If I could have done anything besides lie in bed with a lung infection and mono I would have. Its not making an excuse when you cannot physically lift or exercise. You seem to be quite a know it all, but I suggest that you learn a lot more about weight training before you give advice.

[A_Giant_Bear]

My dieting: I am currently dieting and my diet is working for me. I am losing 3-5lbs a week consistently. Some guy said I should wait 10 weeks before starting the cycle, which is exactly my plan. I plan to be down to 225-235 which is my weight that I am normally at. People that have 6 meals a day seem to be including snacks as a meal. I do eat 2 snacks daily, but its either a piece of fruit or oatmeal, so I don't bother to include it.

To the guy recommending winny and deca to me: From what I have read that seems to be more of a cutting cycle. I am definately looking for a bulking cycle. I still appreciate the advice and will keep it in mind, because I will eventually want to do a cutting cycle.

To the person who warned about the wellbutrin and alcohol: I discussed this with several doctors and all told me with the amount I drink weekly it would definately not be a problem. I was more interested in the problems if any with alcohol and roids. I did a search yesterday about this, but found nothing.

The cycle I am currently thinking of and why: I still think that for me sustanon 250 would be the best for me. The reason I think this is because of the longer half life of test e/c which would mean it would take longer to kick in. I also don't think test e or c would be right for me because of the increased blood pressure with them as opposed to other tests (bad hearts in my family). Somebody posted earlier that I should not be concered with the added estrogen risks with test e/c because they can be easily countered with clomid and nolva. That definately put my mind at ease with the estrogen issue, but the number one reason I decided I didn't want to go with test e/c is the amount of gains that I keep after the cycle. The profile seemed to imply that unless you take it for a long peroid of time most of the gains will dissolve. I did alot of searching the forums about sust the other day and I found that people's main problems with it is the injection pain(which I can handle) and frequent injections(which I can handle). I'm considering whether I should stack sust with anything at all, being this will be my first time. A benefit I see is being able to use less test and therefore less side effects and the added benefit of a mass builder that also has some cutting effect(deca). A downside would be that I might be throwing my money away on deca, because its a first cycle. As always, these are not set in stone. Please give me advice.

I truely appreciate all constructive advice given to me, and I thank those of you who have done that. I do not appreciate people coming here to put down my maxes, throw insults at me, and try to make this thread a dick measuring contest.

Once again, thanks to all who have helped.

[whitehulk]

some of what you say is good advice for yourself and some of it your totally clueless
you say that the deca will help you "have some cutting effect." deca in NO way will help you cut any fat off your body at all. the test may help a little if used properly in the right workout regamine. and you say you wont use test e/c by themselves cause your your heart probs in family. but sust has both those test plus some more. so you will have to exact same heart effect plus some more cause of the other tests. im just trying to help you understand that you need to research alot more on the stuff you are thinking of taking. and you stated further above that you wanted to look better for the ladies and you said your borderline obese so to start off with i knwo you want to get big, but big and fat and slow in rugby doesnt go together. you need to lean out first and get your speed up and then begin to bulk up with solid muscle. thats jsut my opinion for your stated reasons for doing juice. so its up to you

[A_Giant_Bear]

some of what you say is good advice for yourself and some of it your totally clueless
you say that the deca will help you "have some cutting effect." deca in NO way will help you cut any fat off your body at all. the test may help a little if used properly in the right workout regamine. and you say you wont use test e/c by themselves cause your your heart probs in family. but sust has both those test plus some more. so you will have to exact same heart effect plus some more cause of the other tests. im just trying to help you understand that you need to research alot more on the stuff you are thinking of taking. and you stated further above that you wanted to look better for the ladies and you said your borderline obese so to start off with i knwo you want to get big, but big and fat and slow in rugby doesnt go together. you need to lean out first and get your speed up and then begin to bulk up with solid muscle. thats jsut my opinion for your stated reasons for doing juice. so its up to you

No offense, but I can tell you didn't read my last post.

1. I am losing 3-5 pounds a week consistently, counting calories and not planning on juicing for another 10 weeks when I am at 235 which is my normal and near ideal weight.

2. As for the heart problems I am going with what the steroid profiles on this site said. The profiles said that sustanon has less of a damaging effect on the heart than test e or c. I also said that this was not my number one reason for believing that sustanon was best for me. The number one reason was the amount of gains I keep along with the quickness of sustanon to become active.

Research and information is exactly what I am here for. You better believe that I'm going to know everything I can in these 10 weeks before I start injecting anything into my body.

If I was wrong about deca having some cutting effect than I'm glad you corrected me. I know that it is a bulking suplement, but I figured that since people generally take it when on a cutting cycle, it must have some cutting effect as well.

[Booz]

Probably the worst advice you could give somebody.

bump!

[CitizenPump45]

Obviously you need some help bra. You need to get in the best shape you have ever been in your life, and then, and only then think about juicing. Good luck. Cardio and diet should be what you focus on now while maintaining your strength. IMO

[ChefJ]

Obviously you need some help bra. You need to get in the best shape you have ever been in your life, and then, and only then think about juicing. Good luck. Cardio and diet should be what you focus on now while maintaining your strength. IMO

You need some help bro. Look at the date the post started and the last post in the thread before you bump some old ass shit.

[CitizenPump45]

You need some help bro. Look at the date the post started and the last post in the thread before you bump some old ass shit.

It was a joke so keep pissing and moaning cuz you ain't got anything better to do. I know when the post started.

(Damn dude you take your computer to you with the gym and live there 24/7. Your location needs some help. Get a home and a life.)