Placement of carbs on non WO days?

[KingMike]

Just added a bowl of oats 45 minutes after cardio on workout days and was wondering what the best place would be on cardio days. I do 2 45 minute cardio sessions on non workout days and LOVE it. The second session is around 5-6 in the evening about 3 hours after by last meal which is usually 7 oz. of chicken breat and some 3/4 cup of walnuts and my post cardio meal is 30 minutes after and it is whey and flax or olive oil.

[Giantz11]

You can fit them in where ever you see fit, although I'd add them after your cardio cause before could hamper some of that 2nd session.

[KingMike]

Thanks, I will eat them just as I do on WO days, 45-1 hour after cardio, the only thing that will change for cardio days will be no PWO or PPWO carbs and i will up the saturated fat by 15-20%, thanks again Giant.

[Giantz11]

Sure thing.

[mitch911]

how many grams of carbs does your meal consist of

[KingMike]

It is 54 carbs via 1 cup of oats along with 12 egg whites.

[mitch911]

is that it for carbs in your day ?

[KingMike]

Yup, except for the spinach and lettuce. I had gas this morning after introducing the oats but it went away after an hour or so. Should RALA be untilized in the morning before the oats? I alwys felt that in the morning after cardio that I did not need it becasue my body would accept the carb well. If cardio will also be performed at around 5:30 or 6:00 pm, where should I place the other carb meal to maximize glycogen storage and have none stored as fat? also , would 54 grams from oats be too much considering I did not deplete glycogen. If I work abs it will be for 20 minutes or so but not worthy PWO spike. The second cardio sessions is 2:30 to 3 hours after my prior meal which is chicken and walnuts or checkien with mzz. chees and spinach.

[Giantz11]

Yo dude, as long as you are in a caloric deficit you can eat 200g of carbs and they won't get stored as fat. Why do you think that somehow carbs a prefferentially stored as fat. Its harder for a carb to be converted into a fat, than it is for dietary fats to be. Think about it, a carb has to be broken down into di/mono or polysaccarides and then even further for them to be converted into triglycerides, fats do not. Fat is also associated with the least amount of satiety of all 3 macros and had the lowest thermal effect. So now tell me, why are carbs bad?

[KingMike]

You are right, I lost 100 pounds by eating around 200 carbs a day from oats, bread and dairy so what the hell am I fretting about. The time spent on ckd and reading posts on this board have me warped. Hell, I had 170 carbs yesterday inc. veggies and woke up feeling and looking better than I have in months. At what rate would re introduce carbs? I am used to having non on the 2 cardio session day and already introduced the oats this morning. Should I just go ahead and add another bowl in an hour after cardio or wait a week or so. I love cutting this way becasue the only thing that separates bulking and cutting will be PWo carb amounts and total calories. Thanks Giantz, you rule!

[Giantz11]

You are right, I lost 100 pounds by eating around 200 carbs a day from oats, bread and dairy so what the hell am I fretting about. The time spent on ckd and reading posts on this board have me warped. Hell, I had 170 carbs yesterday inc. veggies and woke up feeling and looking better than I have in months. At what rate would re introduce carbs? I am used to having non on the 2 cardio session day and already introduced the oats this morning. Should I just go ahead and add another bowl in an hour after cardio or wait a week or so. I love cutting this way becasue the only thing that separates bulking and cutting will be PWo carb amounts and total calories. Thanks Giantz, you rule!

If you were previsouly on a low-carb diet then you are right to add them back into your diet slowly. Start with the morning Oats and then add them in one meal at a time, one extra meal per week. So nex week go for 2 carb meals and so on, till you reach how many you want to eat on a non-lifting day.

[mitch911]

does havin big bowls of carbs like a bowl of 80-100g oats get stored cause some to be stored as fat if eaten in the morning 45 mins after cardio

[Giantz11]

I would highly doubt it. Your muscle and Liver glycogen stores will be pretty much depleted after a nights rest.

[D9S0M]

so i can have as many carbs as i like as long as i stay in a caloric deficit....wat about taking in my efas if i have carbs @ most of my meals?

[KingMike]

I am going to have a neat experiment in a week or so. I am going to have P/C for breakfast then workout and have P/C PWO and PPWO and then not eat for 3-4 hours and then do cardio at 80% HR and then eat my 3 P/F meals and see what the results are. It is wierd but 10 days without a refeed or cheat day or cheat meal for that matter really lets you fine tune your diet as well as your body. My body tells me what I need when I need it. It seemed that after cheat days and refeed things are all out of wack for 4-5 days and then by the time you get back in the swing of things, you have another cheat day. I will post my findings if I have the nads to try it. I just hate to screw up this roll I am on with all the new PR's in the gym and feeling of well being I have. I just did another cardio session today for 48 minutes at 75-80% and feel like I could bench press a damn house.

[mitch911]

i feel the same way as to gettin in the swing of things diet wise....after that cheat meal the next day i feel guilty and bloated and have hard times gettin in all my meals when cutting lol...for the next 3 days i look kinda softish holding still a few pounds of water then for those few days before my cheat day i look awesome definition wise compared to the week...

[KingMike]

I am not saying that having a refeed or moderate cheat day is not beneficial. I usually do not get hung up on the water bloat or looking ripped on a weekly basis. I go into cutting diets thinking of the end result after 8-12 weeks or so. The refeeds are great for keeping size and strength but everyone is different and I really wanted to fine tune my body and go into each day feeling the same way. I got tired of being 184 then cheating and being 190 for a day then 188, and so on. I found it has NOTHING to do with strength for me sp I stopped any type of refeed. The SECOND my stength decreases from the previous workout, I will take a day off the next day and eat as many oats and yams as I can, about 5000 calories worth and then bitch about the fiber shits later. The only problem I have is that my face gets REAL lean and people think I have aids. I am 6 foot and 182 give or take but my face is chisled but I want a more fuller face but still lean. My shaved head does not help matters either.

[mitch911]

awww just oats and yams on a cheat day ...have some fun with it !

[KingMike]

Fun? Fun to me right now is waking up felling leaning, stronger and better than the previous day and eating to support my needs day in and day out. I am starting to think that cheating is something I will utilize if the occasion comes up but I will not plan any cheating, that is not a healthy lifestyle for me.

[IronFreakX]

Fun? Fun to me right now is waking up felling leaning, stronger and better than the previous day and eating to support my needs day in and day out. I am starting to think that cheating is something I will utilize if the occasion comes up but I will not plan any cheating, that is not a healthy lifestyle for me.

same thing here...wont plan cheat days nemore.....the max ill cheat is using whey or massgainers with dex shakes...like 3 or 4 of them every 3rd week or smth...

[Giantz11]

King one thing you should realize is that like we talked about on refeeds keeping the fat low. Hi Gi carbs would be beneficial for you. That means that you can enjoy sugar and so on.....So you could technically cheat, but not really be cheating. What I do is use Hi-Gi carbs half the day and finish off with regualr carbs, pasta, bread, oats, etc....Keeping you insulin high and spiked over the course of a refeed serves a couple of purposes, glycogen replensihment and leptin signaling which is a major player in whether or not you will stay lean. Without these refeeds, your body will ultimately fight you in getting any leaner. Once you are below your natural setpoint there are a series of biological mechanism's that work against you because your body in no way wants to be that lean. So when you cheat, have some fun, grab some sweet sugary foods and chow down. Try and steer clear af saturated fats as well as HFCS and you'll be all good.

[KingMike]

Thanks for the words Giantz. Ever since I embarked on losing 100 pounds I ALWAYS had a cheat day every 6-7 days. I do not know what my set point is since I was a fat a*% all my life. This is day # 11 wihout a refeed and I just had another tremendous workout. new PR on the bent row and I finally got 50 pounds strapped on and did 8 chin ups, granted I am only 180 or so but that is HUGe for me and my ego. I just do not want to ruin what I have going now. I do feel a little skinny but harder and leanre than I have ever been since incorporating the carbs for breakfast every day. I only wonder if I should start increasing calories a bit since my strength is going through the roof and do a mini bulk cycle. God know what I could do with another 1000 calories a day. I have been at 21-2250 calories now for 11 days, if I were to have a refeed with hi gi and some low with minimal fat, how many calories do you think I could use. I know that I can eat upwards of 8-10k calories with no problem and wake up looking like I was on AS but I hat the days following a refeed. I feel likeit is a setback. It is not the scale weight but more of a mental thing. Hell, I put on weight the past 3 days but I am putting on 32 jeans I have not worn in a year. The only problem I face is looking too thin but having extra fat. I loved it at around 190-200 and the chics dug it also, now they look at me like a JO SHMO semi built dude. If they only knew my past struggles, oh well gotta hit the salmon before bed. Thanks again for the open ears.

[mitch911]

thats awesome news on all the strength gains ur makin while cutting..i have made a few which feels awesome seeing how u are doing crazy cardio and not pounding the food as much..as of the mini bulk i would just continue with the cut until u are pleased with the bf % and then clean bulk frome there seing how u got the hang of the clean diet aproach thats my approach aswell..we have somewhat the same scenerio it seems

[Giantz11]

For a refeed I'd say shoot for like 4-5k calories. This will also help with thyroid output.

[G-Force]

Yo dude, as long as you are in a caloric deficit you can eat 200g of carbs and they won't get stored as fat. Why do you think that somehow carbs a prefferentially stored as fat. Its harder for a carb to be converted into a fat, than it is for dietary fats to be. Think about it, a carb has to be broken down into di/mono or polysaccarides and then even further for them to be converted into triglycerides, fats do not. Fat is also associated with the least amount of satiety of all 3 macros and had the lowest thermal effect. So now tell me, why are carbs bad?

yo Giantz - what you say here makes sense but would it not be better to limit the amount of carbs as much as poss - in order for the body to burn fat stores rather than carbs as energy

so calorie deficit with moderate/high carbs = Fat Loss
Calorie Deficit with low carbs = more fat loss

?

[KingMike]

I ALWAYS felt thinner when I had NO carb leading up to a workout but the facts do not lie for me. Since the morning carbs I added I have lost incehs in the waist, gotten bigger yet more ripped and it has only been about 3 days. The strength was climbing without the morning carbs but since the introduction my test is raooling. I am going to bed and waking up with one thing on my mind if you know what I mean. Yhis is day 12 without a refeed and just did 48 minutes of cardio this morning and it was a struggle to keep my heart rate below 170 BPM. I think it was that Godsmack song on the radio that got me ramped up. KEEP AWAY!

[Giantz11]

yo Giantz - what you say here makes sense but would it not be better to limit the amount of carbs as much as poss - in order for the body to burn fat stores rather than carbs as energy

so calorie deficit with moderate/high carbs = Fat Loss
Calorie Deficit with low carbs = more fat loss

?

This logic is flawed, yes with lower carbs you will have a higher rate of FFA oxidation. But guess what you are eating more of to replace those carbs? Dietary Fat. So what you replace in carbs you eat in fat. Glucose is responsibe for Thyroid output, cAMP, Insulin and Leptin. Which you want elevated (as much as possible) when dieting.

[G-Force]

so why am i killing myself with this low carb diet?

[KingMike]

It is all about placement. If you eat 50-80 carbs for breakfast, what activity is done in between meal 1 and 2 to warrant another carb meal? There is none unless you lift weights. Carbs before and the 2 meals following you workout are all that is needed for prime growth no matter what you are on.The body will burn fat and muscle easier if there are no carbs present in the system but if you were to have carbs for breakfast and workout say 4-5 hour or more later the carbs are now preent in your muscles, and ready for muscular use. I found this week that my body still will burn fat while lifting as long as the carb meal is 5+ hours prior to the lifting. It does all come down to calories in and calories out but you can get leaner faster if you place carbs in certain meals at certain times of the day.Shit, I have lost 1 1/2 pounds in 4 days since introducing the 54 carbs for breakfast every morning and I will add another meal 45 minutes after my second cardio session in 3 more days. This is day 13 for me with no cheat and no refeed and just got another PR in the inc DB pres and the military DB press, I am flying high. I do feel frail and would like to be filled out more but the longer I go without a refeed, the more I am afraid to screw this deal up that I have going.