Endurance research - EPO or anavar or.....

[dirtybrit55]

Basically researching EPO (Erythropoietin) for its uses to aid endurance for a basketball player who has team practise 2-3 hours/day, 2 games /week). I gather it will do so but at a very high risk for dehydration and then painful death as blood turns to jelly. How would anavar compare to EPO for my needs? BTW I have enough anavar for 200 days at 50mg/day. Yes I am lucky.

Dirty

[SV-1]

BTW I have enough anavar for 200 days at 50mg/day. Yes I am lucky.

From the people that make you squeal like a little girl?

[daem]

BTW I have enough anavar for 200 days at 50mg/day. Yes I am lucky.

if you ran it 200 days @ 50mg, you would be risking severe complications with your liver.

just some food for thought.

[Mealticket]

How much EPO do you have?

[Steroids101]

Anavar doesn't have as big an impact on RBC count as epo.

[juiceinthehood]

Anavar doesn't have as big an impact on RBC count as epo.

your right but take @50mg for 200 days and it will

[w_rballs]

I have enough anavar for 200 days at 50mg/day. Yes I am lucky.

Dirty

that is wayyyy too much var for one person to have at once. what if u get robbed? they will take it all. send me half and ill hold onto it for your safety and if u do get robbed ill send u the other half. Where do u live??

[dirtybrit55]

From the people that make you squeal like a little girl?

[dirtybrit55]

And for the rest of you - I AM NOT running 200 days of var at 50mg/day, more like 100....

Mealticket - I dont have any EPO right now but can get if necessary. In my research it seemed you had some experience...anything you want to share? I may skip the EPO this year simply cos I m fascinated by running var..however the following year I may experiement with EPO.

[Mealticket]

pm me w/ the price you think you can get it for an i'll tell you if it's worth it. Also what brand of EPO is it?

[Justin_Case]

EPO would be ideal for what you are looking to accomplish, but as others stated it is not to be used haphazardly, as it CAN be quite dangerous. Get a baseline level from a blood test, and CHECK PERIODICALLY. Stay hydrated, and watch for headaches. If headaches do occur, begin taking aspirin and discontinue or lower dosage accordingly. Stay safe. JC

[Justin_Case]

also, keep refridgerated. (the EPO, not you)

[Matto20]

if you ran it 200 days @ 50mg, you would be risking severe complications with your liver.

just some food for thought.

Actually, I doubt severe liver complications would arise (yes, even with 28 weeks) - especially if you were to use good liver antioxidants. Oxandrolone's liver toxicity is vastly overblown on internet steroid forums (due to oral 17aa bias) and the drug has been proven in numerous medical studies to be safe for extended periods of time when it comes to the liver.

However, the lipids are the main concern when running the compound for a long period of time. Plant sterols (policosanol, especially) can be taken with anavar to help correct the poor changes in HDL and LDL cholesterol levels that anavar brings about.

[Mealticket]

EPO would be ideal for what you are looking to accomplish, but as others stated it is not to be used haphazardly, as it CAN be quite dangerous. Get a baseline level from a blood test, and CHECK PERIODICALLY. Stay hydrated, supplement with iron, preferably sub q but oral will do, and watch for headaches. If headaches do occur, begin taking aspirin and discontinue or lower dosage accordingly. Stay safe. JC

NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER Supplement IRON while on EPO, EVER...........get it!!!!!!!!!!!.........that's like stacking test prop w/ test suspension!!!!

[dirtybrit55]

NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER Supplement IRON while on EPO, EVER...........get it!!!!!!!!!!!.........that's like stacking test prop w/ test suspension!!!!

what would happen???!

[w_rballs]

iron helps produce more red blod cells. epo makes your blood thick as hell as it is. thick blood + more red blood cells ( makes blood thick) = sludge for blood

[Justin_Case]

As for the iron comment, I don't have any research handy to back its use while on EPO, so I deleted it for now. I have to find it though, as I have read at least two studies showing the benefits of supplementation with both iron and B12 and use both whenever I'm on. When I find it I'll post. JC

*BTW- EPO is hands down the best single (non-hormonal) supplement I've ever used. If you can get it, try it.

I love you Amgen...

[hatchblack]

Actually, I doubt severe liver complications would arise (yes, even with 28 weeks) - especially if you were to use good liver antioxidants. Oxandrolone's liver toxicity is vastly overblown on internet steroid forums (due to oral 17aa bias) and the drug has been proven in numerous medical studies to be safe for extended periods of time when it comes to the liver.

However, the lipids are the main concern when running the compound for a long period of time. Plant sterols (policosanol, especially) can be taken with anavar to help correct the poor changes in HDL and LDL cholesterol levels that anavar brings about.

Nice info about the plant sterols...book marking this one.

[Justin_Case]

http://www.vh.org/adult/provider/pha...506PTNews.html
Iron Evaluation. Sufficient iron stores are necessary for an adequate response to EPO. Iron status, including transferrin saturation and serum ferritin, should be evaluated prior to therapy. Adequate iron supplementation during EPO therapy is necessary to support erythropoiesis and to avoid further depletion of iron stores. Transferrin saturation should be at least 20% and ferritin should be at least 100 ng/ml. 4

http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB....asp?Doi=30973
Initial storage iron status is a marginally important limitation to EPO-mediated erythropoiesis in the setting of oral iron supplementation. Strategies to maintain plasma transferrin saturation with intravenous iron therapy may be desirable to improve the erythropoietic response to EPO in this setting.

http://fn.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/79/1/F44
In conclusion, we found that early administration of high doses r-HuEPO to preterm infants with iron supplements significantly reduces the need for blood transfusions, iron supplements in conjunction with r-HuEPO yield higher reticulocytes and haematocrit after the fourth week of life, and infants treated with r-HuEPO alone show signs of iron deficiency. We emphasise that further studies are needed on the safety, timing, and efficacy of iron supplements during r-HuEPO treatment.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract
Iron deficiency is the most frequently encountered cause of suboptimal response to recombinant human erythropoietin (rHuEPO). Carefully assessing iron status is of paramount importance in chronic renal failure patients prior to or during rHuEPO therapy. Because there is great need for iron in the EPO-stimulated erythroid progenitors, it is essential that serum ferritin and transferrin saturation levels should be maintained over 300 microg/liter and 30%, respectively. Investigators have shown that oral iron is unlikely to keep pace with the iron demand for an optimal rHuEPO response in uremics. Therefore, patients with iron deficiency will always require intravenous iron therapy. The early and prompt iron supplementation can lead to reductions in rHuEPO dose

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache...entation&hl=en
Iron supplementation is important for both drugs to enhance the response to EPO. Estimations show that as many as half of cancer patients whose anemia is not corrected are not responding to treatment because their iron levels are too low.

[Justin_Case]

http://www.lef.org/protocols/prtcl-065c.shtml
Many people who need EPO treatment also need iron supplementation because EPO alone will not relieve the effects of anemia if iron levels are too low. Sometimes iron can be taken in a pill form, but according to the NIDDK, iron pills often do not work as well in people with kidney failure as iron given intravenously. Iron supplements should only be taken if prescribed by a physician based on blood analysis (National Kidney Foundation 2001e).

http://www.kidney.org/professionals/...pan_intro.html
Iron is also essential for hemoglobin formation. The iron status of the patient with CKD must be assessed and adequate iron stores should be available before Epoetin therapy is initiated. Iron supplementation usually is essential to assure an adequate response to Epoetin in patients with CKD because the demands for iron by the erythroid marrow frequently exceed the amount of iron that is immediately available for erythropoiesis (as measured by percent transferrin saturation) as well as iron stores (as measured by serum ferritin).

[NewBreed]

EPO is hormonal.Peptide hormone.
And it doesnt make your blood thick,its the RBC and nothing else.
So it´s much healthier using this hormone than using a steroid which has several other benefits than stimulating erythropoesis.and also many other sides then EPo ,which nearly has none,when used carefully&properly it usually has none.

[Mealticket]

http://www.vh.org/adult/provider/pha...506PTNews.html
Iron Evaluation. Sufficient iron stores are necessary for an adequate response to EPO. Iron status, including transferrin saturation and serum ferritin, should be evaluated prior to therapy. Adequate iron supplementation during EPO therapy is necessary to support erythropoiesis and to avoid further depletion of iron stores. Transferrin saturation should be at least 20% and ferritin should be at least 100 ng/ml. 4

http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB....asp?Doi=30973
Initial storage iron status is a marginally important limitation to EPO-mediated erythropoiesis in the setting of oral iron supplementation. Strategies to maintain plasma transferrin saturation with intravenous iron therapy may be desirable to improve the erythropoietic response to EPO in this setting.

http://fn.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/79/1/F44
In conclusion, we found that early administration of high doses r-HuEPO to preterm infants with iron supplements significantly reduces the need for blood transfusions, iron supplements in conjunction with r-HuEPO yield higher reticulocytes and haematocrit after the fourth week of life, and infants treated with r-HuEPO alone show signs of iron deficiency. We emphasise that further studies are needed on the safety, timing, and efficacy of iron supplements during r-HuEPO treatment.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract
Iron deficiency is the most frequently encountered cause of suboptimal response to recombinant human erythropoietin (rHuEPO). Carefully assessing iron status is of paramount importance in chronic renal failure patients prior to or during rHuEPO therapy. Because there is great need for iron in the EPO-stimulated erythroid progenitors, it is essential that serum ferritin and transferrin saturation levels should be maintained over 300 microg/liter and 30%, respectively. Investigators have shown that oral iron is unlikely to keep pace with the iron demand for an optimal rHuEPO response in uremics. Therefore, patients with iron deficiency will always require intravenous iron therapy. The early and prompt iron supplementation can lead to reductions in rHuEPO dose

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache...entation&hl=en
Iron supplementation is important for both drugs to enhance the response to EPO. Estimations show that as many as half of cancer patients whose anemia is not corrected are not responding to treatment because their iron levels are too low.

The studies weren't performed on perfectly healthy individuas w/ a noraml iron level. People w/ cancer, or other diseases that have low crit and a low rbc count would need to supplement w/ iron.

Someone who just wants to benefit from epo for sport performance does not need to supplemnt iron into their diet

[kitchenSinkChemist]

I would like to know where I can get it for $5/dose

http://gndp.cigb.edu.cu/Cuba%20new%20markets.pdf

Even if the "dose" is the lowest 1000 IU, thats still cheap

[kingofmasters]

Why not naturally raise EPO and other indirect mediated levels???

Just let him stay for a month in a High altitude place
(+ 1000 meters or above for best results!) and preferabely cold...
Then let him do cardio or mountainclimbing minimum of 3x 1 hour a day!

Greets
Kingofmasters

[tommie4]

ITs almost 2006, are your going to go with the EPO. Great post! Im having a tuff time finding a source for procrit--any and all tips would be greatly appreciated!

All the best!!!!!

Tommie4

[spywizard]

ummmmmmmmmmmmm

I think he already used up all the var

[tdf]

Meal Ticket- I believe your right about NOT taking iron with epo. The studies that JC listed are studies done with sick people. I ran epo w/iron last year and felt horrible, hematocrit way too high, performance sufferd. i think it was due to the overload of ferritin levels.

[middistane]

I am also having trouble finding an EPO source? Also, has anyone heard of Eritriostim? It's apparently some form of Russian EPO

[tdf]

I'm getting it from my dr.

[middistane]

tdf, how did you pull that one off? I need to find a Dr. like yours. Also, have you heard of Eritrostim?

[tdf]

Yes, I agree! I got very lucky. The down side is, the shit is sooooo..... $$$$$$$$$$

No, I have not heard of Eritrostim! Send me some info.

Thanks,
TDF