what type of cardio while clean bulking

[lc1987]

do you guys do hiit cardio while clean bulking or do the cardio on an empty stomach?

[novastepp]

on off days for me. and whenever/however i can. why not work the most important muscle in the body?

[lc1987]

on off days for me. and whenever/however i can. why not work the most important muscle in the body?

ummm.... what do you mean? i was just wondering what type of cardio.

[SwoleCat]

Heart!!!!!!

~sc~

[1buffsob]

Stick with light cardio on an empty stomach. And like Nova said, try to keep it mainly on off days. If your diet is point on, that should be all you need.

1buffsob

[peterj]

well fuelled HIIT on off days for me

[1buffsob]

I don't like the idea of burning my food off for cardio when lean bulking. I'd rather attack fat directly and leave the food for my muscles. But that's me.

1buffsob

[SwoleCat]

Agreed, not a proponent of HIIT myself.

~SC~

[peterj]

its all in the fuelling of the effort and when you are bulking calorie intake should never be in question

the benefits of EPOC generally equate to less LBM loss Vs steady state on empty

i hate cliches but look at a sprinter, train like one and you will look like one

[1buffsob]

its all in the fuelling of the effort and when you are bulking calorie intake should never be in question

the benefits of EPOC generally equate to less LBM loss Vs steady state on empty

i hate cliches but look at a sprinter, train like one and you will look like one

Prove it. Seriously, unless you were concerned with cardiovascular health, why waste the food you've just eaten to do high intensity cardio. Cardio on an empty stomach, if done right, will result in minimal (if any) loss of muscle.

1buffsob

[SwoleCat]

Yeah, everyone has sprinter genetics.

They are world class athletes that are few/far between.

I'm outta here, this isn't something I'm interested in debating for the 10000th time. To me it's common knowledge, so you all have a blast w/this.

~SC~

[peterj]

ok, see you soon swole

i ran NTOC testing on a suunto before and found over 6 months the HIIT proved beneficial over SS cardio for me, but there are so many factors to consider

as for genetics, pink fibres can always be tampered with if you are not born to be a sprinter, anyway, we are not talking performance we are talking aesthetics

i find HIIT also help lifting too and the anaerobic nature is similar

as for eating before, its cals in vs cals out at the end of the day and at rest the body prefers fat, opposed to fat and protein on fasted SS cardio

[SwoleCat]

its cals in vs cals out at the end of the day

Okay, then I'd like for you to eat 400 kcals under maintenance for 60 days.
You should be able to drop bodyfat and look great with that plan of attack.

During this time you are only to drink non-diet soda and eat snickers bars, with the occassional Big Mac thrown in. Make sure you are under by 400 kcals each day though, because remember you want to lose weight.

If it's truly all about kcals in vs. out, you will still drop bodyfat and look terrific at the end of those 60 days.

Can't wait to see your journal and final results.

~SC~

[1buffsob]

ok, see you soon swole

i ran NTOC testing on a suunto before and found over 6 months the HIIT proved beneficial over SS cardio for me, but there are so many factors to consider

as for genetics, pink fibres can always be tampered with if you are not born to be a sprinter, anyway, we are not talking performance we are talking aesthetics

i find HIIT also help lifting too and the anaerobic nature is similar

as for eating before, its cals in vs cals out at the end of the day and at rest the body prefers fat, opposed to fat and protein on fasted SS cardio

That's all well and good, but I asked for you to show me proof. Like SC said, this has been debated a million times. The reason it's been debated so much is because studies come up inconclusive. I will stick with logic, which tells me light cardio on an empty tank, until I find a study that PROVES otherwise.

1buffsob

[1buffsob]

Okay, then I'd like for you to eat 400 kcals under maintenance for 60 days.
You should be able to drop bodyfat and look great with that plan of attack.

During this time you are only to drink non-diet soda and eat snickers bars, with the occassional Big Mac thrown in. Make sure you are under by 400 kcals each day though, because remember you want to lose weight.

If it's truly all about kcals in vs. out, you will still drop bodyfat and look terrific at the end of those 60 days.

Can't wait to see your journal and final results.

~SC~

I thought you were staying out of it. Yeah, let me know how this turns out, with pics and all.

1buffsob

[peterj]

easily baited, cheers for the continued participation swole

ok, you have given a crude example so far at one end of the spectrum the only answer could be one which supports your theory. substitute the foods that are obviously not ones consumed by people who are concernced for LBM gains and the argument changes. i will then present the model i have done before

as 1buffsob says, eveidence and studies will show different things, but isnt this the beauty of the fitness industry.

as for a journal, i don't train as i am a RAK but do train others and prefer to use the methods stated

[1buffsob]

easily baited, cheers for the continued participation swole

ok, you have given a crude example so far at one end of the spectrum the only answer could be one which supports your theory. substitute the foods that are obviously not ones consumed by people who are concernced for LBM gains and the argument changes. i will then present the model i have done before

as 1buffsob says, eveidence and studies will show different things, but isnt this the beauty of the fitness industry.

as for a journal, i don't train as i am a RAK but do train others and prefer to use the methods stated

SC was only pointing out that a kcal, is not just a kcal. The type of foods you eat will determine fat loss vs weight loss. And the same example could be given with cardio.

Eat 2000kcals above your maintainence before noon, then at 6pm, do cardio at 80% heart rate until you burn 2500kcals. You now have a 500kcal deficit everyday. Which is lost, weight or fat?

Just goes to show that the timing of food/cardio is a deciding factor in overall fat loss.

1buffsob

[lc1987]

you know those guys from ast-ss? they use hiit cardio or they call it max ot cardio. i dunno how it works out for them but they're huge. they said something about it having anabolic effects or something like that........

[SwoleCat]

Yeah, and they aren't trying to push their supplements either.



~SC~

[SwoleCat]

SC was only pointing out that a kcal, is not just a kcal. The type of foods you eat will determine fat loss vs weight loss. And the same example could be given with cardio.

Exactly.

What I said has nothing to do w/being easily baited.

If I have an opinion that I want to state, I will.

If not, I don't. Has nada to do w/bait, because I know what works for me and the 100's I assist. No offense, but I've been doing this for years on end and have already "proven" myself, so if you think I go around looking to prove people wrong, I don't. I don't have to prove anything.

If all else fails, shit, we can start posting pictures of ourselves.

I love to "bait" people w/that, they turn and run and never produce, yet they "know it all".

I always say "F*ck thinking u know it all, SHOW what u know".

I can show pics of me, or a myriad of my success stories. Doesn't make what I do the ONLY way, however arguing that it's not effective or that it is sub-par when compared to other methods is not something that can be done.


~SC~

[1buffsob]

Exactly.

What I said has nothing to do w/being easily baited.

If I have an opinion that I want to state, I will.

If not, I don't. Has nada to do w/bait, because I know what works for me and the 100's I assist. No offense, but I've been doing this for years on end and have already "proven" myself, so if you think I go around looking to prove people wrong, I don't. I don't have to prove anything.

If all else fails, shit, we can start posting pictures of ourselves.

I love to "bait" people w/that, they turn and run and never produce, yet they "know it all".

I always say "F*ck thinking u know it all, SHOW what u know".

I can show pics of me, or a myriad of my success stories. Doesn't make what I do the ONLY way, however arguing that it's not effective or that it is sub-par when compared to other methods is not something that can be done.


~SC~

If proof is in the pudding, Cosby ain't got nothing on SC.

1buffsob

[peterj]

swolecat

by that then, eveyone in shape knows what they are talking about. those who don't practise the theory the put forward don't?

[1buffsob]

swolecat

by that then, eveyone in shape knows what they are talking about. those who don't practise the theory the put forward don't?

You're knocking on the devil's door brother. I'd keep the sarcasm to a minimum.

1buffsob

[SwoleCat]

swolecat

by that then, eveyone in shape knows what they are talking about. those who don't practise the theory the put forward don't?

I honestly can't understand your communication here, no offense, but it's very hard to read and understand.

"Do what works for you". No one will get anywhere bantering back/forth.
Find what works for you, I know I did.

There, I'm all done, k pumpkin'???

~SC~

[SwoleCat]

You're knocking on the devil's door brother. I'd keep the sarcasm to a minimum.

1buffsob

I can't even understand him period, .

Funny how you mention pictures and people change the subject REALLY QUICK.

~SC~

[peterj]

ok swole cat

there is no sarcasm here

i will re word it so you can decipher the point i am making in the thread

you are saying you have to be in shape to be respected?

i am saying you have to have knowledge to be respected. is every soccer coach a great soccer player?

[tretch187]

I can't even understand him period, .

Funny how you mention pictures and people change the subject REALLY QUICK.

~SC~

I think he was attempting to state that one's own image has nothing to do with the amount of knowledge he/she possesses, or their ability to train others.

Tis true, but having a good image is important as well in this industry if you are selling yourself (as you are SC).


I have a question then :

If you are using this "targetting fat" cardio approach and then take in far above maintenance(bulking).... are you actually going to burn fat?

Tis my curiousity again.

[tretch187]

ok swole cat

there is no sarcasm here

i will re word it so you can decipher the point i am making in the thread

you are saying you have to be in shape to be respected?

i am saying you have to have knowledge to be respected. is every soccer coach a great soccer player?

Tis not an argument you want to attempt here peter. You will end up losing Better to argue info...

[1buffsob]

ok swole cat

there is no sarcasm here

i will re word it so you can decipher the point i am making in the thread

you are saying you have to be in shape to be respected?

i am saying you have to have knowledge to be respected. is every soccer coach a great soccer player?

You're going with the cliche of "Those who can't, teach." That's BS. SC is a perfect example, as well as many other successful trainers on this board. I understand everyone is limited in the genetic department, but if you can't present a decent physique, why the hell would anyone listen to you about training/dieting? That doesn't mean everyone who looks like a bb knows what they're talking about. But if the advice is logical, and coming from someone that bigger/leaner than me, I'm going to take it into consideration and do my research on it.

1buffsob

[1buffsob]

I can't even understand him period, .

Funny how you mention pictures and people change the subject REALLY QUICK.

~SC~

I've noticed that. Weird.

1buffsob

[1buffsob]

I think he was attempting to state that one's own image has nothing to do with the amount of knowledge he/she possesses, or their ability to train others.

Tis true, but having a good image is important as well in this industry if you are selling yourself (as you are SC).


I have a question then :

If you are using this "targetting fat" cardio approach and then take in far above maintenance(bulking).... are you actually going to burn fat?

Tis my curiousity again.

Yes. You will burn fat durring cardio. But if your calories are too far above maintainence for the rest of the day, your likely to add/replace the fat you burned durring cardio.

1buffsob

[tretch187]

Heart!!!!!!

~sc~

And moving back for a sec.... is this a Captain Planet quote??


lmao. Please, please tell me it is SC

[SwoleCat]

CAPS:

i will re word it so you can decipher the point i am making in the thread

THAT MAKES IT SOUND AS IF YOU WORDED SOMETHING TOO INTELLIGENT FOR ME. THAT WAS NOT THE CASE. YOUR OFFERING WAS HORRID SPELLING/GRAMMAR/CLARITY WISE. DON'T GET IT TWISTED.....

you are saying you have to be in shape to be respected?

YOU DON'T "HAVE" TO BE, BUT ANYONE WHO KNOWS ANYTHING ABOUT REAL WORLD BUSINESS AND LOOKING THE PART (ME) KNOWS THAT IT HELPS YOUR BUSINESS TENFOLD. BEING WELL EDUCATED IS ONE THING, ACTUALLY PUTTING THAT INTO PRACTICE CREATES AN ENTIRELY NEW/DIFFERENT INDIVIDUAL. ONE WHO CAN RELATE TO THOSE HE HELPS, NOT JUST HAVE "READ" ABOUT WHAT THEY MAY BE EXPERIENCING. THE BOTTOM LINE THAT I KNEW LONG AGO, BUT IS CONFIRMED NOW THROUGH 5 YEARS OF THIS, IS THAT HOW YOU LOOK HAS EVERYTHING TO DO W/THOSE THAT HIRE YOUR AND WISH TO WORK W/YOU. YOU YOURSELF AND THOSE THAT YOU IN TURN GET INTO SHAPE, THOSE ARE YOUR "IDOLS" IF YOU WILL AND THE "PROOF" THAT PEOPLE SEE. THEN THEN SAY, "SHIT, THIS GUY REALLY KNOWS HIS SHIT".

THEY NOW KNOW THAT I KNOW MY SHIT REGARDLESS OF HOW I LOOK, BUT U THINK I'M GOING TO GET LAZY AND NOT LOOK THE PART? THAT'S NOT ME, NEVER WILL BE, AND IT'S NO EXCUSE FOR OTHER TRAINERS TO NOT BE IN TERRIFIC SHAPE AS WELL. THE OLD ADAGE, "A PICTURE IS WORTH 1000 WORDS", MAN, THAT HAS NEVER BEEN MORE TRUE. THE SAYING "YOU ARE WHAT YOU EAT" IS ALSO VERY TRUE.

SO YES, IMAGE IS VERY VALUABLE, THOSE WHO SAY IT'S NOT ARE EXTREMELY CLUELESS. IGRNORANT EITHER BY NOT HAVING EXPERIENCED BEING IN SHAPE, OR OTHERWISE, BUT IT'S CLUELESS NONE-THE-LESS.

i am saying you have to have knowledge to be respected. is every soccer coach a great soccer player?

In closing, yes, knowledge earns respect for sure. Pictures earn respect and also burn an image into the head's of those who view them. I'll take a burn over an earn anyday, especially when the earn is already quite full.

What this has to do w/the cardio inquiry that initiated this thread, I have no idea. However, I can definitely assure you I am done here now. That question was too "well duh" to not answer, and was actually quite RHETORICAL as far as real world application.


~SC~

[TEXAS]

ok swole cat



i am saying you have to have knowledge to be respected. is every soccer coach a great soccer player?

this is a joke ?

if the image is not essential.. try wearing clown clothes and with your knowledge find someone to talk to !

[1buffsob]

Let this thread die. Everything concerning the topic has been discussed.

1buffsob

[big&tall]

burn over a earn yea baby yea