T3...cheat day same?

[liftin4life]

I'm at 1450 cals/day and one day a week I eat 8000cals give or take a bit (several pounds of meat, 6 protein shakes, and the rest whatever). Can I keep my cheat day the same on T3?

I'm craving carbs like crazy on the T3 and feel like it's harder to think clearly. When I eat carbs this feeling goes away and I feel normal again.

[InsaneInTheMembrane]

1450 cals seems WAY too low, even for cutting...unless its a typo...let's see your stats
8000 cals for a day also seems too high
A cheat day, for me, means one cheat meal, which should not be over 2000 cals at most (so for me, ED=2000 cals, cheat day=3000-4000 cals)
With T3, you should be VERY careful, esp with your low cals, cuz it burns everything, including your hard earned muscles, if anything you should up your calories to stave off muscle catabolism...
But even better, try clen, its not as dangerous as T3

[C_Bino]

Wow, what an insane diet. 1450 is extremely low man, EXTREMELY. Also 8000 is WAY to high. You have a lot of tweaking to do and I suggest you get started and find a middle ground. IMO if you are cutting you should never have an all out cheat day, especially if it means 8000 calories, that is just stupid, you are going to accumulate fat stores FOR SURE and this is not your goal since you are cutting.

The idea of a cheat is to just bump cals up a BIT to keep your metabolism going going goin. Its like carb cycling, which IMO is the best type of cheating.

Just eat clean all week but cycle carbs and have your cheat day/meal just with higher carbs but still good carbs.

[C_Bino]

Get into the diet forum to get a better grasp of dieting.

[liftin4life]

1450 cals seems WAY too low, even for cutting...unless its a typo...let's see your stats
8000 cals for a day also seems too high
A cheat day, for me, means one cheat meal, which should not be over 2000 cals at most (so for me, ED=2000 cals, cheat day=3000-4000 cals)
With T3, you should be VERY careful, esp with your low cals, cuz it burns everything, including your hard earned muscles, if anything you should up your calories to stave off muscle catabolism...
But even better, try clen, its not as dangerous as T3

My diet is on point...and extremely effective. I'll explain in a longer post/response to C Bino.

Here's a better question....should your diet change when on T3 and if so, in what areas? Do protein/carb/fat ratios need to be altered in an already-effective diet?

As far as clen goes, I don't have time to get it before my trip in 15 days.

[liftin4life]

Wow, what an insane diet. 1450 is extremely low man, EXTREMELY. Also 8000 is WAY to high. You have a lot of tweaking to do and I suggest you get started and find a middle ground. IMO if you are cutting you should never have an all out cheat day, especially if it means 8000 calories, that is just stupid, you are going to accumulate fat stores FOR SURE and this is not your goal since you are cutting.

The idea of a cheat is to just bump cals up a BIT to keep your metabolism going going goin. Its like carb cycling, which IMO is the best type of cheating.

Just eat clean all week but cycle carbs and have your cheat day/meal just with higher carbs but still good carbs.

With all due respect to your vet status, in 5 months of dieting.....my arms have only dropped 5/8" AND chest measurement has remained the same while taking 7" off my waist along with 36lbs...presumably mostly fat considering I experienced only a minor loss of strength.

For these 5 months, I've been eating 5000-6500 cals every Sunday as my cheat day. From bumping up cals like this, your body attempts to raise its BMR to compensate for the major caloric increase. For the next 2-3 days following the "cheat day" I experience a major boost in metabolism and as well as observe visible fat loss in addition to an elevation in body temperature. It takes 36 hours for constricted fat cells to begin to expand to store fat while the "cheat day" is 12-18 hours at most. Fat storage is not an issue in this situation.

Typically following a cheat day, 6-8lbs will show on the scale the next morning, yet 3-4 days later I'll be 1-1.5lbs less than the day BEFORE the cheat day...indicating the increase in BMR was effective. This has continued consistently at a fat loss of 1-4lbs every week (starting at 2-4lbs a week and now 1-3lbs a week depending on cardio/activity level)....for 5 months.

Beginning weight was 176...currently 140 at a height of 5' 6.5"...waist is 27 3/4", chest 43 1/2", arms 14 1/4", forearms 12 3/4", quads 23 1/2", calves 14 3/4", neck 16 3/4", wrist 6 1/4". 140 x 15cal = estimated BMR of 2100 with a lower dieting limit of 140 x 10cal being 1400. As you can see I have a very small frame. Also, due to my job, I cannot take AAS so take that into account.

I'm a strong advocate of Clarence Bass' recommendations for dieting so feel free to comment on that as well. That may shed some insight as to my influences. Yes, Bass only has a dessert as his "cheat" yet I've found my method to be effective over a long period of time.

I'm aware that different things work for different people. That being said...my information/opinions are based solely on my personal experience as well as reading books and speaking with competitors who are in respectable condition. If there is research to back up this metabolic rebound that appears to be occuring, I'll post it when I find it. Are your shared opinions based on personal experience or research and if on research, would you care to share your sources of information?

[InsaneInTheMembrane]

With all due respect to your vet status, in 5 months of dieting.....my arms have only dropped 5/8" AND chest measurement has remained the same while taking 7" off my waist along with 36lbs...presumably mostly fat considering I experienced only a minor loss of strength.

For these 5 months, I've been eating 5000-6500 cals every Sunday as my cheat day. From bumping up cals like this, your body attempts to raise its BMR to compensate for the major caloric increase. For the next 2-3 days following the "cheat day" I experience a major boost in metabolism and as well as observe visible fat loss in addition to an elevation in body temperature. It takes 36 hours for constricted fat cells to begin to expand to store fat while the "cheat day" is 12-18 hours at most. Fat storage is not an issue in this situation.

Typically following a cheat day, 6-8lbs will show on the scale the next morning, yet 3-4 days later I'll be 1-1.5lbs less than the day BEFORE the cheat day...indicating the increase in BMR was effective. This has continued consistently at a fat loss of 1-4lbs every week (starting at 2-4lbs a week and now 1-3lbs a week depending on cardio/activity level)....for 5 months.

Beginning weight was 176...currently 140 at a height of 5' 6.5"...waist is 27 3/4", chest 43 1/2", arms 14 1/4", forearms 12 3/4", quads 23 1/2", calves 14 3/4", neck 16 3/4", wrist 6 1/4". 140 x 15cal = estimated BMR of 2100 with a lower dieting limit of 140 x 10cal being 1400. As you can see I have a very small frame. Also, due to my job, I cannot take AAS so take that into account.

I'm a strong advocate of Clarence Bass' recommendations for dieting so feel free to comment on that as well. That may shed some insight as to my influences. Yes, Bass only has a dessert as his "cheat" yet I've found my method to be effective over a long period of time.

I'm aware that different things work for different people. That being said...my information/opinions are based solely on my personal experience as well as reading books and speaking with competitors who are in respectable condition. If there is research to back up this metabolic rebound that appears to be occuring, I'll post it when I find it. Are your shared opinions based on personal experience or research and if on research, would you care to share your sources of information?

Liftin4life,

Experience is the BEST teacher....I know that after 7 years of trial and error...you know your body best..nobody can tell you what 100% works, just offer guidlelines to start..you have to customize to your body from there...Although your regimen seems a wee bit extreme to me, I have to admit perhaps your body probably prefers it that way...If I did that, I know my body would crash and I would end up doing something unhealthy like binging (I once wolfed down 9 candy bars in one sitting after 8 weeks of an almost no-carb diet..my will-power just imploded..not to mentioned I lost 2 weeks of my progress)..from your stats and explanation, i can somwhat undestand where you're coming from...that being said, kudos on your progress and keep on pumpin'

cheers

[liftin4life]

Liftin4life,

Experience is the BEST teacher....I know that after 7 years of trial and error...you know your body best..nobody can tell you what 100% works, just offer guidlelines to start..you have to customize to your body from there...Although your regimen seems a wee bit extreme to me, I have to admit perhaps your body probably prefers it that way...If I did that, I know my body would crash and I would end up doing something unhealthy like binging (I once wolfed down 9 candy bars in one sitting after 8 weeks of an almost no-carb diet..my will-power just imploded..not to mentioned I lost 2 weeks of my progress)..from your stats and explanation, i can somwhat undestand where you're coming from...that being said, kudos on your progress and keep on pumpin'

cheers

Well....the diet sucks. It sucks horribly. All I eat is apples, strawberries, oats (not even oatMEAL), egg whites (10-15 daily), whole wheat bread, Syntrax Nectar and occasionally Cytogainer. I pretty much cut out milk and cheese since I only have 15 days til the beach. As far as EFA's...I cook my eggs with olive oil to grease the pan and will occasionally have Smuckers Natural PB or Cashews. Sometimes I'll have brown rice or a baked potato plain but that's rare. I've been eating like this for the past 3 months or so out of the 5 dieting...however the cheat day has been constant on Sunday. Also the drop in cals was from 3400 (bulking) to the current 1450 over a 5 month period...so it was slow enough to monitor muscle/strength changes and adjust the rate at which it dropped to prevent losing lean tissue. I would never just drop to 1450 and actually...have never gone this low before. Last time I dieted I only went to 2000 and I looked horrible because of what I chose to eat. I have a comparison pic of (9-3-05)143 to (2-1-06)170 to (5-25-06)149 taken a few months ago to show the composition changes and how effective this diet has been.

See attached: May 25. I'm a lot leaner (by 9lbs) and will post a recent pic as well.

[liftin4life]

So to rephrase the question...do any of you here think macronutrient ratios should be altered when on T3 or should the user stick to an effective diet of his/her choice and just up the cardio?

[nrobleski]

eat more man...thats less than a small chick needs daily...sounds like you are training for a famine,,,I feel bad for you man if thats what you have to do to cut,,,If I were you I would just say,,shit I guess I'm a fatty

[1buffsob]

So to rephrase the question...do any of you here think macronutrient ratios should be altered when on T3 or should the user stick to an effective diet of his/her choice and just up the cardio?

There is no definate answer to this question. Everyone will have their own opinion, but it'll all come down to trial and error.

As for your diet, to each his own. But I think there are much more effective ways than the one you're doing. Not to mention, much less "extreme".

1buffsob

[1buffsob]

eat more man...thats less than a small chick needs daily...sounds like you are training for a famine,,,I feel bad for you man if thats what you have to do to cut,,,If I were you I would just say,,shit I guess I'm a fatty

Yes, but take into account, that he's only 10-15lb larger than the average female. Still a horrible diet IMO. I don't know what his goals are, but I find it hard to believe he'll ever have a muscular build when he diets down like this. But that may not be what he's after.

1buffsob

[SwoleCat]

Horrid.

~SC~

[liftin4life]

There is no definate answer to this question. Everyone will have their own opinion, but it'll all come down to trial and error.

As for your diet, to each his own. But I think there are much more effective ways than the one you're doing. Not to mention, much less "extreme".

1buffsob

Agreed...it comes down to trial and error. As someone who has put on 70lbs bulking in 3 years....then fluctuated between a 30-40lb window up and down about 5 times in 4 years....you can understand my frustration with being muscular AND lean. Leaning out and eating like this is a desperate attempt to achieve what 7 years of training/dieting have not done. Essentially, the goal at this point in time (as no other option was seen as realistically effective), is to strip away all bodyfat before attempting to gain muscle again. If some is gained while dieting...fine...if it is maintained...good. "Eat more" is not good advice. Although all advice is subject to the opinions and experience of those offering it, I see criticism being posted yet with a lack of constructional information applicable to my goals and the question(s) being asked. It will be interesting to see who becomes defensive or who understands that I ask these questions because I seek information from those who may have more experience than I do.

[RUBADUCK]

I would also like to know how a diet should be changed while on T3. The profiles section on t3 does not give so much as far as dieting goes. Also most people on this sight favor clen as opposed to t3. I agree, clen for me was a far better experience but I have started a t3 cycle and will finish it out so any information on this would be very helpful.

[timtim]

you can understand my frustration with being muscular AND lean. Leaning out and eating like this is a desperate attempt to achieve what 7 years of training/dieting have not done.

this seems to be the problem right here. you keep running the same poor diets year in and year out. at least thats how i interpret 7 years of non-productive dieting. seems to me you might need to change alot of your principles up and try something new. if your not making any real progress.

[Kärnfysikern]

1450 cals seems WAY too low, even for cutting...unless its a typo...let's see your stats
8000 cals for a day also seems too high
A cheat day, for me, means one cheat meal, which should not be over 2000 cals at most (so for me, ED=2000 cals, cheat day=3000-4000 cals)
With T3, you should be VERY careful, esp with your low cals, cuz it burns everything, including your hard earned muscles, if anything you should up your calories to stave off muscle catabolism...
But even better, try clen, its not as dangerous as T3

I have to disagree with the last part. IMO T3 is more or less harmless while Clen is the worst shit anyone can put into there body. I wouldnt even use clen if I got payed for it.

To the original poster. If you are losing strenght you are eating to little, make sure strenght is intact. You might also put your body in starvation mode because of those low kcal. Are you feeling cold alot? About the cheat day, it doesnt matter much if you are on t-3 or not when it comes to the cheat day, no need to change anything on the cheat day because of t-3.

[liftin4life]

this seems to be the problem right here. you keep running the same poor diets year in and year out. at least thats how i interpret 7 years of non-productive dieting. seems to me you might need to change alot of your principles up and try something new. if your not making any real progress.

I agree. I got great training results and gained a lot of muscle (several times) but lost it all every time I dieted. My lack of knowledge about proper nutrition was the issue. This IS the change from where I was. Perhaps many would not like to admit how many pounds of fat/water they are/were holding....me being one of them. However, the truth is upon me...or should I say off me now. To get to a contest-lean condition, this is what it takes apparently.

[liftin4life]

I have to disagree with the last part. IMO T3 is more or less harmless while Clen is the worst shit anyone can put into there body. I wouldnt even use clen if I got payed for it.

To the original poster. If you are losing strenght you are eating to little, make sure strenght is intact. You might also put your body in starvation mode because of those low kcal. Are you feeling cold alot? About the cheat day, it doesnt matter much if you are on t-3 or not when it comes to the cheat day, no need to change anything on the cheat day because of t-3.

I'm actually gaining 5lbs on flat bench and weighted dips about every 3 weeks on this diet and going up in reps and poundages steadily but slower in other minor lifts...that's how I know I've found a balance. My arms have also remained the same size and have not gotten smaller with the last 10lbs dropped however my waist did by 2". Cold? Not at all...I sweat ALL the time and have been doing so since I've been dieting and doing cardio. Thanks for the info on the cheat day...this is the last one before the beach then I have 13-14 days of no cheating...and I already bought the food for it.

[1buffsob]

I agree. I got great training results and gained a lot of muscle (several times) but lost it all every time I dieted. My lack of knowledge about proper nutrition was the issue. This IS the change from where I was. Perhaps many would not like to admit how many pounds of fat/water they are/were holding....me being one of them. However, the truth is upon me...or should I say off me now. To get to a contest-lean condition, this is what it takes apparently.

No..... It doesn't. Unless you're talking about a different type of contest rather then BB. No way you'd ever be able to hold onto any "real" amount of muscle cutting like this.

1buffsob

[liftin4life]

No..... It doesn't. Unless you're talking about a different type of contest rather then BB. No way you'd ever be able to hold onto any "real" amount of muscle cutting like this.

1buffsob

Several previous posts could be used as a response to this one. To each his own. Thanks to everyone who provided constructional criticism and useful information.

[*Narkissos*]

1450 isn't low.. if he's eating to maintain his LBM.

One can't look at a figure at face value.. One must, in giving an assessment, review the individual.

8000 on the cheat day would be much much too high imo.

Nark

[Kärnfysikern]

1450 isn't low.. if he's eating to maintain his LBM.

One can't look at a figure at face value.. One must, in giving an assessment, review the individual.

8000 on the cheat day would be much much too high imo.

Nark

agree. When I cut I go as low as 1700kcal and I am around 200ibs. So I eat less for my bodyweight then he does.

Some people are just blessed with a REALY slow metabolism....

aslong as he consistenly maintain or increase strenght he is obviously not catabolic.