This is my Opinion

[Surrender]

Personally I believe all cycles over 8 weeks are a waste of time...Now the only way I agree that they should be extended is two ways

1) By adding a short ester for an addition two weeks so you can start PCT earlier

2) Upping the dosage




Discuss or don't....I can hang with either....Where's my buddy Roidattack?

[perfectbeast2001]

Why are longer cycles a waste of time? I don't think a longer cycle of test E and EQ would be a waste. The waste would be stopping just as the compounds have started to work.

[SMAN12b]

Why are longer cycles a waste of time? I don't think a longer cycle of test E and EQ would be a waste. The waste would be stopping just as the compounds have started to work.

Agreed +1

[Dangerdan]

Why are longer cycles a waste of time? I don't think a longer cycle of test E and EQ would be a waste. The waste would be stopping just as the compounds have started to work.

I agree with Beast too; but mainly just because I dont especially care for Surrender.

[Surrender]

Why are longer cycles a waste of time? I don't think a longer cycle of test E and EQ would be a waste. The waste would be stopping just as the compounds have started to work.

If you keep a diet constant and clean, I feel that you no longer gain size and strength after 8 weeks. All long esters kicks in fully between 33-42 days...... and by the end of the 8th week things slow........I've known hundreds of bodybuilders on gear over the last 30 yrs and have yet to see someone continue with big strength increases or gains after around 8 weeks...Like I said this is just my opinion......

Try this...go on a maintence diet and start a cycle after some time off. Now let take the bench press. After about a week you'll get a little increase in the bench....this will continue up to about 8 weeks and then it will come to a halt...Now to be able to continue in strength gains two things you can do...up the calories or the dosage of gear......Try it if you think I'm kidding...

Like I said i won't state who I am, but I'm not some guy that decided at 55 to jump on your site and state a bunch of garbage cause I'm bored...

[Dangerdan]

I'll admit that my experience has been gains tended to slow after week eight or nine but I think it could vary based on the compound and each individual.

[SMAN12b]

I can see your point Surrender, and my only rebuttle would be the whole "maintence diet"
Depending on the type of cycle I would be doing, bulk/cut, I would not be on just a maintence diet persay, If I am bulking, I would be increasing my calories by a set amount each week until I maxed the gains out, which for me can be anywhere from the 8-12 week point , at least that has been my results at this point in my experimentation.......

[fLgAtOr]

What about changing compounds? What about bulk/cut cycles?

[skipp]

If you're taking E and you eat the same on week 1 as you do on wk 12, you're not eating right. (assuming bulking)

[Hellmaskbanned]

The bigger you get the more calories you need to grow...So if one has not increased calories when he has grown substantially, I could see this as a reason your gains have stopped in week 8. Other than that I think long esters need a longer time to work there magic.

[perfectbeast2001]

If you keep a diet constant and clean, I feel that you no longer gain size and strength after 8 weeks. All long esters kicks in fully between 33-42 days...... and by the end of the 8th week things slow........I've known hundreds of bodybuilders on gear over the last 30 yrs and have yet to see someone continue with big strength increases or gains after around 8 weeks...Like I said this is just my opinion......

Try this...go on a maintence diet and start a cycle after some time off. Now let take the bench press. After about a week you'll get a little increase in the bench....this will continue up to about 8 weeks and then it will come to a halt...Now to be able to continue in strength gains two things you can do...up the calories or the dosage of gear......Try it if you think I'm kidding...

Like I said i won't state who I am, but I'm not some guy that decided at 55 to jump on your site and state a bunch of garbage cause I'm bored...

I respect your opinion mate. Based on my own exp I have allways made best gains in size during weeks 10-14. I gradually gain in strength during this time too. I can't draw many conclusions from others i train with as they either stay on year round or just take what there given until it runs out.

[Hellmaskbanned]

I type slow....

[Surrender]

I can see your point Surrender, and my only rebuttle would be the whole "maintence diet"
Depending on the type of cycle I would be doing, bulk/cut, I would not be on just a maintence diet persay, If I am bulking, I would be increasing my calories by a set amount each week until I maxed the gains out, which for me can be anywhere from the 8-12 week point , at least that has been my results at this point in my experimentation.......

You know bro 99% of the people that do gear, the diets suck....They would never think about upping their cal's as you state. So this is how i come to my opinion. It's based on 90% of the people's inexperience and this is where the 8 weeks will come into play....Hell most guys that bulk and do roids just get fat and retain a ton of water......But I'll agree with you that if your diet is properly maintained, then yes you can continue to add some size and strength but it will slow regardless unless you also up the dosage of gear....I think we are both on the same road right now....

[Surrender]

I respect your opinion mate. Based on my own exp I have allways made best gains in size during weeks 10-14. I gradually gain in strength during this time too. I can't draw many conclusions from others i train with as they either stay on year round or just take what there given until it runs out.

I like that...Until it runs out...LOL

[SMAN12b]

You know bro 99% of the people that do gear, the diets suck....They would never think about upping their cal's as you state. So this is how i come to my opinion. It's based on 90% of the people's inexperience and this is where the 8 weeks will come into play....Hell most guys that bulk and do roids just get fat and retain a ton of water......But I'll agree with you that if your diet is properly maintained, then yes you can continue to add some size and strength but it will slow regardless unless you also up the dosage of gear....I think we are both on the same road right now....

OK well then personally, I would NOT count the people that do things half assed!!! I think it would be very obvious that if they do it half assed, then their results will also be half assed!! And I am more than Happy to be in that 1% that knows how to eat to maxamize the body's growth potential which I would consider the entire point of using AAS in the first place.

But lets hear from more of the 1% club !!!

[perfectbeast2001]

The bigger I get the more hungry I am! simple really!!

[LatinoPR]

Personally I believe all cycles over 8 weeks are a waste of time...Now the only way I agree that they should be extended is two ways

1) By adding a short ester for an addition two weeks so you can start PCT earlier

2) Upping the dosage




Discuss or don't....I can hang with either....Where's my buddy Roidattack?

This is my opinion....... ''Whatever,..i don't care''.




LPR.

[pumpd4lif]

If you keep a diet constant and clean, I feel that you no longer gain size and strength after 8 weeks. All long esters kicks in fully between 33-42 days...... and by the end of the 8th week things slow........I've known hundreds of bodybuilders on gear over the last 30 yrs and have yet to see someone continue with big strength increases or gains after around 8 weeks...Like I said this is just my opinion......

Try this...go on a maintence diet and start a cycle after some time off. Now let take the bench press. After about a week you'll get a little increase in the bench....this will continue up to about 8 weeks and then it will come to a halt...Now to be able to continue in strength gains two things you can do...up the calories or the dosage of gear......Try it if you think I'm kidding...

Like I said i won't state who I am, but I'm not some guy that decided at 55 to jump on your site and state a bunch of garbage cause I'm bored...

all my big gaines when using long esters come between weeks 8 and 11
and we know who u are u are the old man from east(occ) coast choppers my size 12 hahaha j/k

[Timm1704]

i read something recently that suggested something like this:

the body constantly tries to retain homeostasis, which includes muscle mass. after the gains have dropped at the 8-week mark or so, it is in those last 4 weeks that the body would start to try and break down the new muscle mass. with a sufficient diet and drugs procedures, the body will keep from becoming catabolic, and also adjust to this new level of mass, meaning gains would remain after the cycle had stopped, so long as diet was still high in calories, and PCT was good. if however, we stop the cycle at 8 weeks with the long esters, the body will not have as strong a chance at keeping these gains.

anybody agree with me that this sounds logical?

[perfectbeast2001]

i read something recently that suggested something like this:

the body constantly tries to retain homeostasis, which includes muscle mass. after the gains have dropped at the 8-week mark or so, it is in those last 4 weeks that the body would start to try and break down the new muscle mass. with a sufficient diet and drugs procedures, the body will keep from becoming catabolic, and also adjust to this new level of mass, meaning gains would remain after the cycle had stopped, so long as diet was still high in calories, and PCT was good. if however, we stop the cycle at 8 weeks with the long esters, the body will not have as strong a chance at keeping these gains.

anybody agree with me that this sounds logical?

Sounds very logical to me. I ran 8 week cycles when i was younger based on the Mick Hart AS philosophy and I lost all my gains. Might be something to do with the fact he never mentioned PCT! Personally I have begun to think that having a planned time to be on is pointless. I will stop cycle when results stop wether that be week 6 or week 20.