what do you do during your "off cycle" phases?

[ascendant]

just wondering what it is you guys do during your "off cycle" periods? i mean, i know at that point all you can really hope to do as far as muscle-wise is maintain the muscle gained from your previous cycles. so, since there's obviously no hope in gaining additional mass at that point (unless you're one of those people that took gear well before they were near their genetic limit), what do you guys do?

i used to spend most of that time just trying to maintain my mass while minimizing fat gain and just waiting out my next cycle. however, i was thinking i might begin using that in-between cycles time to start cutting up. i'm just wondering though that without the gear, will you lose quite a bit of muscle as well while cutting or would this be a good time to do so? just wanted to hear everyones thoughts on all of this.

[InsaneInTheMembrane]

traditionally I would do GH in between cycles to help minimize muscle loss, boost fat loss AND set my muscles up for the next cycle...However, I find that no matter what I do, some degree of fat accumulation is inevitable....bad genetics I guess!

But now, before my next bulker, I am serious considering a "primer" diet cycle...basically I plan to cut for 4-6 weeks prior to the cycle to have a good low BF% base to start from and put my body in that "hungry" state so when I start my bulking cycle, the rebounds mass gain should be quite effective! I dont think 4-6 weeks of cutting with a solid diet would result in any significant degree of muscle loss, especially considering how the bulker will add it back (and tonsz more) of LBM!

Cheers

[Swifto]

Not much now. But I am thinking of using an AI to raise levels of testosterone and lower estrogen. Bit of a grey area, but Vitor claims to have done it effectively.

The other idea is to cruise on a low dose of Primo and try to avoid complete shutdown.

[marcus300]

I use GH throughout the cycle at a high dose and a mod dose durring the off period, after ive done pct i usually start to prime myself for the next cycle, if you understand your own body this process is great for maintaining muscle tissue while lossing BF and will put you in a very anabolic enviroment for the start of the next cycle, creatine,glut,additional aminos and clen are also some other compounds i like to take.

[Swifto]

I use GH throughout the cycle at a high dose and a mod dose durring the off period, after ive done pct i usually start to prime myself for the next cycle, if you understand your own body this process is great for maintaining muscle tissue while lossing BF and will put you in a very anabolic enviroment for the start of the next cycle, creatine,glut,additional aminos and clen are also some other compounds i like to take.

How many cycles do you do a year Marcus? And..How long do these cycles last?

[edmen2]

Not much now. But I am thinking of using an AI to raise levels of testosterone and lower estrogen. Bit of a grey area, but Vitor claims to have done it effectively.

The other idea is to cruise on a low dose of Primo and try to avoid complete shutdown.

what would you consider a low dose of primo?

[marcus300]

How many cycles do you do a year Marcus? And..How long do these cycles last?

as many as possible!!

I only do short cycles now which range between 21-30days, i use heavy short burst cycles and low dose short cycles, its very rare if i go for anything long nowadays, i prepare my body with a prime before any short cycle weather its heavy/med/low i always do a prime which ranges from 4-8 weeks depending on what am planning,

I don't count how many i do in a year i just keep doing that 30 days on then pct which is normally only for a short time or sometimes i bridge/cruise cycles together then i start to prime, this is more or less what the pro's do but they use some extreme dosages coupled with a good bridge,

Secret is preparing your body for any cycle, creating an environment for muscle tissue to grow and this is done with a good solid prime, hit the cycle aggressively and let the body grow in short burst just like it does during baby years and teenager yrs, no point in anyway staying on cycle longer than than you should, all your doing is creating more sides and will be harder to maintain and recover, when you have stopped growing come off and go into pct then prime again, its a excellent way of building new muscle tissue than just chasing new muscle tissue or just wasting AAS

[Swifto]

what would you consider a low dose of primo?

I'll be trying around 400mg/wk. Undecided at the moment.

[vitor]

Right now Ime using Thermogenics, which makes it easier to keep bf down and keep training intensity up. I have also startet to use an Aromatase inhibitor to increase testosterone levels and increase estrogen. There is a huge amount of estrogen in fat-cells which can also make you hold water too, so femera keeps me dry and hard, and its much easier to hold on to muscle tissue once your test-levels are in the high range.

[Swifto]

Right now Ime using Thermogenics, which makes it easier to keep bf down and keep training intensity up. I have also startet to use an Aromatase inhibitor to increase testosterone levels and increase estrogen. There is a huge amount of estrogen in fat-cells which can also make you hold water too, so femera keeps me dry and hard, and its much easier to hold on to muscle tissue once your test-levels are in the high range.

Another thing about using Letro for longer peroids is that your androgen levels will start to increase over time. This can then cause over saturation of the anndrogen receptors in the Hypothalamus and inturn, shutdown the pituitary. It may be wise to take regular breaks of 4-6 weeks.

[vitor]

Another thing about using Letro for longer peroids is that your androgen levels will start to increase over time. This can then cause over saturation of the anndrogen receptors in the Hypothalamus and inturn, shutdown the pituitary. It may be wise to take regular breaks of 4-6 weeks.

I completely agree. I know this is possible...

I will have BW again after about 8-weeks from now(going to be intresting), then taper off to avoid estrogen rebound, and go off for a few weeks.

Shutting myselves down with an AI is the only thing ime concerned about, that would be quite a disaster actually... But for now, its working good, and I have defently noticed a big diffrence from the last time I was training natrual.

[stupidhippo]

to ascendant: Ive cutted in between cycles and always lost considerable amouts of muscle... BUT I also train other stuff which kinda is not optimal for BB purposes so that might effect it also.. this time im not gonna cut between cycles until its time to prime.. also I primed for the first time to this cycle.. gains have been good but I also managed to lose plenty of muscle while priming.. but all in all still a success.. im thinking my heavy cardio / BJJ/ kickboxing in the summer while priming might have bee the culprit for muscle loss.

[marcus300]

to ascendant: Ive cutted in between cycles and always lost considerable amouts of muscle... BUT I also train other stuff which kinda is not optimal for BB purposes so that might effect it also.. this time im not gonna cut between cycles until its time to prime.. also I primed for the first time to this cycle.. gains have been good but I also managed to lose plenty of muscle while priming.. but all in all still a success.. im thinking my heavy cardio / BJJ/ kickboxing in the summer while priming might have bee the culprit for muscle loss.

Muscle loss would of occoured by not listening to your body while priming, you need to adjust the low carb days to suit your body as it changes, to many low carb days will trigger the savation response which will make you lose muscle tissue, or reducing the carbs by to much % on low carb days also triggers this response, its a fine art priming but when you master it the results are outstanding

[stupidhippo]

do u think my very extensive training also is a culprit? I mean I was doing very intensive cardio and then other stuff too pretty much daily.. that + gym 4 times a week... I do believe it has sumin to do with that... I noticed better results with lighter cardio but unfortunately it doesnt help my cardio which is important for me.

[marcus300]

do u think my very extensive training also is a culprit? I mean I was doing very intensive cardio and then other stuff too pretty much daily.. that + gym 4 times a week... I do believe it has sumin to do with that... I noticed better results with lighter cardio but unfortunately it doesnt help my cardio which is important for me.

A prime should be worked of what you do normally just to maintain, thats diet and cardio

[stupidhippo]

I know that .... what I meant was this : I cant focus all my goals towards body building so I have to do cardio and other training which are in a calorie restricted state possibly quite catabolic.. I was just speculating that with easier cardio load I could have saved more muscle.. I do cardio not BB style but with very high intensity. as hard as I can for as long as I can, depending a lil. sometimes just basic conditioning.. anyway my point was... I actually had none except that I think very intensive cardio is not optimal while priming..

[V_Vandetta]

I have been primimg for about 5 weeks now ... and Its getting ready for the short cycle .... and the trick is carb depleteing maintaining muscle mass while burning fat ... taken advise from marcus300 and own knowledge..... the hole trick to the prime is ketosis DIET and CARDIEO.... when to knock it out of the high range ...( with a carb load ) ... thus makeing fat loss the only think going on .... I started at 280 I am down to 268 today in the 5th week now and all i have been running is HGH @ 8iu nothing else get blood work later this week .. before starting the short cycle next week ....

I have always bridged cycles DUMB but I have been around and know my body and what to do with what....

[marcus300]

I know that .... what I meant was this : I cant focus all my goals towards body building so I have to do cardio and other training which are in a calorie restricted state possibly quite catabolic.. I was just speculating that with easier cardio load I could have saved more muscle.. I do cardio not BB style but with very high intensity. as hard as I can for as long as I can, depending a lil. sometimes just basic conditioning.. anyway my point was... I actually had none except that I think very intensive cardio is not optimal while priming..

What ever training you do normaly while in your maintaining phase is fine, if you started to do excess cardio trhats the problem, while priming work of what you do normally to maintain diet and cardio

[magic32]

Hippo,

Focus more on coordinating your high cardio consumption days with high calorie expenditure days. It's still possible to maintain a positive balance because both high and low carb days are at your discretion. You simply need to make sure you're getting enough lows to sustain the prime.

M.

[stupidhippo]

yeah I gotta try that.. buts it a lil ahrd when everyday was high cardio... but yeah Ill bet the next time Ill do priming it will go more smoothly.. or maybe just time it so that during priming I wont do so intense cardio, I mean 6 weeks lil easier wont kill me.... sorry for the highjack by the way..

[ascendant]

great info so far guys. i know the gh between cycles is common, but because of the price of gh, the fact that i'm just getting back into using cycles again after a 3 year layoff and just don't feel a need for gh yet, combined on top of the fact that i just can't afford that much gh due to the fact that i just bought a house, the gh in between is out of the question.

so, without gh, is it possible to maintain most of that muscle still while cutting between cycles? just thinking if i cut up between every cycle instead of wasting time just maintaining mass, i can keep leaner year round and also utilize the excess glycogen upload by the muscles after the cutting phase when beginning the next cycle. i'm learning from ya markus! you got some great info bro and it's much appreciated (along with all of you as well of course). i'm just concerned of running into the same problems as stupidhippo did with losing muscle because of the lack of any gear in my system at the time.

[Ufa]

just wondering what it is you guys do during your "off cycle" periods? i mean, i know at that point all you can really hope to do as far as muscle-wise is maintain the muscle gained from your previous cycles. so, since there's obviously no hope in gaining additional mass at that point (unless you're one of those people that took gear well before they were near their genetic limit), what do you guys do?

i used to spend most of that time just trying to maintain my mass while minimizing fat gain and just waiting out my next cycle. however, i was thinking i might begin using that in-between cycles time to start cutting up. i'm just wondering though that without the gear, will you lose quite a bit of muscle as well while cutting or would this be a good time to do so? just wanted to hear everyones thoughts on all of this.

Get on the treadmill for one hour each day with 8 lb dumb bells. Your
body fat will burn off and you will get a intense work out. If you got
any extra energy do a little resistance training.

[marcus300]

great info so far guys. i know the gh between cycles is common, but because of the price of gh, the fact that i'm just getting back into using cycles again after a 3 year layoff and just don't feel a need for gh yet, combined on top of the fact that i just can't afford that much gh due to the fact that i just bought a house, the gh in between is out of the question.

so, without gh, is it possible to maintain most of that muscle still while cutting between cycles? just thinking if i cut up between every cycle instead of wasting time just maintaining mass, i can keep leaner year round and also utilize the excess glycogen upload by the muscles after the cutting phase when beginning the next cycle. i'm learning from ya markus! you got some great info bro and it's much appreciated (along with all of you as well of course). i'm just concerned of running into the same problems as stupidhippo did with losing muscle because of the lack of any gear in my system at the time.

Problems would only occour if you reduce the carbs to much on the low carbs days or you run to many days of low carbs to trigger a shift in your system, i will try to explain alittle further, it is a fine art but when mastered the results are outstanding,

The best prime ive used is 3-5 days low carbs 40% less than your maintance diet and 1 day high carb 15% higher than your maintance diet, so i would reduce carbs by 40% for 3-5 days the glycogen stores start to deplete and when muscle glycogen stores are lower a metabolic shift occurs where additional fat is used for fuel which in turn promotes fat loss so after you return back to 1 day high carb intake the extra carbs simply re-store muscles with glycogen, so as long as there is room for more glucose from carbs the carbs must be stored as glycogen, but with only one day higher carbs the store are not fully full so the next time you do 3-5 day lower carbs the stores get even more depleted which even triggers more fat loss but the high day carb is enough to stop the starvation response of the body so no metabolic shift to slow it down,

When you go 7 days or over (and this figure varies in between individuals this is why you have to listen to your body) fat cells attempt to hold on by resisting the release of fatty acids then levels of lipoprotein lipase tend to rise and thyroid levels drop and both of theses affects overall basel metabolism and the starvation response which off sets reduction in energy, (muscle loss)this is why increasing the carbs intake is vital and interrupts the response of the body to slow down and suppresses the release of the fat storing enzyme lipoprotein,

Also by increasing the carbs for that one day it stimulates the metabolic rate, because when glycogen levels drop followed by an increase in calories even an increase what in more than the normal maintenance diet the body responds by increasing thermogenesis which in turn burns fat without using muscle tissue as energy,

This overall procedure puts your body into a very anabolic environment for muscle tissue to grow couple this with a short burst cycle and growth is amazing, but i must stress the prime as to be done correctly to take full advantage

The trick is calculating how many low carb days is correct?? this comes with listening to the body if you need to deplete more go more low days, if its to much and a risk of tissue being burnt then decrease the low carb days, with
Things are coming together now, am liking it

Because the lack of insulin while priming protien needs to be increased enough so keep protien high and amino acids, if muscle loss occurs the metabolism will shift and everything then needs to be adjust to suit but this isnt what your after, simple eat more protien and give the body additional aminos that can be used as fuel so sparing muscle mass,

Essentially the body will more or less always burn aminos from foods rather than burn muscle tissue so increasing protien while lowering carbs is essential, so the carb cycling coupled with the increased protien creates the enviroment your after before a cycle, your opening a gates for muscle tissue to grow so when the prime ends feed feed feed feed the body and the short cycle.

[realjo1000]

.....

[ascendant]

definitely great stuff markus. thanks again. looks like i'll be spending my "off cycle" times cutting up from now on and priming my body.