Size or strength

[stunner5000pt]

I am constantly caught in the dilemma... should i aim to be strong (but not necssarily big) or big (but not necessarily strong)

i actually stay up nights thinking about this... it would make me look attractive to the opposite sex... one of the reasons i train in the first place... but

i know that there is a lot more i have to change about myself and that my looks will not change the person inside... but it will improve my self confidence by a few points...

But i have always been the little guy who gets picekd on and i would liek to be strong as well so that when peopel boast about how they can bench/squat/deadlift n pounds i can secretly laugh at them and if it comes to proving things i can do it easily

seems that i have something to prove to someone which shouldnt matter... why should i carea bout what that pompous moron says he can lift? But i would like to shut that moron up so i can watch his face turn reen with jealousy...

caught between two contradicting ideas... what do you guys think?

[Hellmaskbanned]

Both

Personally with me....If my strength goes up so does my weight.

[chest6]

i wanna be both

[Ejuicer]

I train heavy like a powerlifter even though my goals are geared towards bodybuilding. That's just the way my body responds.

[stunner5000pt]

when you say train like ap owerlifter what do u mean.. do u follow a bonafide powerliftin routine??

[stunner5000pt]

so far 4 in favour of size... hmmm

[MuscleScience]

There really shouldnt be a difference in the two if you lift your sarcomeres increase in contractility and crossectional diameter.

[stunner5000pt]

There really shouldnt be a difference in the two if you lift your sarcomeres increase in contractility and crossectional diameter.

sarcosplasmic is not the same as myofibrillar hypertrophy though

i dunno how this relates to sarcomeres though

you'll ahve to explain ... in a bit more layman's terms... i wish i had taken kinesiology...

[Hoggage_54]

My next cycle I'm going to try and be as lean as possible with the most strength possible for that size so I can be fast and strong for my triumphant return to organized sports

[MuscleScience]

sarcosplasmic is not the same as myofibrillar hypertrophy though

i dunno how this relates to sarcomeres though

you'll ahve to explain ... in a bit more layman's terms... i wish i had taken kinesiology...

A myofibril is the contractile subunit of a sarcomere, which is one contractile unit basically. Its pretty much the same thing just the myofibrils increase in number , density, and contractile strenght, meaning they form more actin-myosin cross bridges. google actin-myosin cross-bridging and there are lots of good sites that explain it in good detail. thats how I got through exercise phys class. cause i liked to drink to much so the internet was my study buddy. lol

[big L 17]

i got for strong

[stunner5000pt]

A myofibril is the contractile subunit of a sarcomere, which is one muscle cell basically. Its pretty much the same thing just the myofibrils increase in number , density, and contractile strenght, meaning they form more actin-myosin cross bridges. google actin-myosin cross-bridging and there are lots of good sites that explain it in good detail. thats how I got through exercise phys class. cause i liked to drink to much so the internet was my study buddy. lol

aren't you the guy doing his PhD??

drinking? lol

ok so i was reading wikipedia ... and this is what it said

Myofibrillar hypertrophy can, in theory, arise through two processes:
increase in the number of nuclei within each muscle fiber, or
increase in the amount of contractile material supported by each nucleus. The former is the usual means of muscle hypertrophy.

it said 'in theory' .. so ... what is the practical version of that ??

also i look at olympic lifters most of them arent really 'huge' or even look at powerlifters in the lower weight classes like 180lbs 190lbs are they huge?

[Hellmaskbanned]

aren't you the guy doing his PhD??

drinking? lol

ok so i was reading wikipedia ... and this is what it said

Myofibrillar hypertrophy can, in theory, arise through two processes:
increase in the number of nuclei within each muscle fiber, or
increase in the amount of contractile material supported by each nucleus. The former is the usual means of muscle hypertrophy.

it said 'in theory' .. so ... what is the practical version of that ??

also i look at olympic powerlifters most of them arent really 'huge' or even look at powerlifters in the lower weight classes like 180lbs 190lbs are they huge?

Since when is powerlifting an olympic sport?

[stunner5000pt]

Since when is powerlifting an olympic sport?

i should just call it olympic lifting shouldnt i?

it is the 'real' power sport though

[MuscleScience]

aren't you the guy doing his PhD??

drinking? lol

ok so i was reading wikipedia ... and this is what it said

Myofibrillar hypertrophy can, in theory, arise through two processes:
increase in the number of nuclei within each muscle fiber, or
increase in the amount of contractile material supported by each nucleus. The former is the usual means of muscle hypertrophy.

it said 'in theory' .. so ... what is the practical version of that ??

also i look at olympic lifters most of them arent really 'huge' or even look at powerlifters in the lower weight classes like 180lbs 190lbs are they huge?

Myofibril hyperthropy is just the muscle fiber increasing in size from stimulus, which is caused by an increase in actin and myosin filaments. This is pretty much proven and is the accepted theory. In science you can never say that something is a fact but there are literally thousands of research papers supporting this.

The second which is the muscle cell hyperplasia (MCHP), is when a muscle cell splits into two new muscle cells due to stimulus which forms a second nucleus. This however is not as solid. Scientist have seen it in animals such as octopi, however in mammals its really only been seen in cats. I actually just posted on another thread about reading a paper on it yesterday. A few and a stress a few studies have seen muscle cell hyperplasia in humans. It was thought until just about ten years ago that humans were not capable of doing this. Its been thought that much like brain and fat cell that a person is born with all the muscle cells that they will ever have. Now some new evidence is saying that this may not be true is some cases. One paper and I cant remember the paper, looked at elite bodybuilders and did muscle biopsies on the biceps. These bodybuilder seemed to show that under extreme stress that muscle cells at the ends of the biceps at the insertion and origin points would split and form new muscle cells. This was a pretty landmark paper when it came out they called it end on end point MCHP. However this study theorized that this was due to the extreme stress that the muscle cell encounters at the attachment points to the tendon and bones. It was not seen in the actually muscle belly of the biceps as I recall.I read another one that looked at how the use of an anabolic substance may induce MCHP. This one is a fairly new paper but is i couldnt find any other papers that supported it. But I didnt do an extensive search I was just messing around while I was bored.

The point about the powerlifts too is that they also make use of leverage and kinetics. The average 200 lbs person if they could somehow contract all there muscles at once and in a coherent fashion can produce a force of over 1 ton.
The athletes that amaze me are gymnast those guys are all ripped and do some incredible feats of strength.

I havent quit decided if Im going to do PhD. or Some sort of Health profession doctorate.

[Mizfit]

strength i dont wanna be as big as some of u all..

[Ejuicer]

when you say train like ap owerlifter what do u mean.. do u follow a bonafide powerliftin routine??

A lot of 1 rep maxes, low repetition ranges, a lot of heavy flat bench, squats, deadlifts, powercleans, close grip/reverse grip bench etc. That kind of stuff. So no it's not an actual powerlifting routine but a lot of the exercises and principles are the base of my routine.

[UpstateTank]

couldnt give 2 shits about how strong i am...you always see those wannabe's throwing up weight they shouldnt w/ absolutely terrible form (and of course there are real powerlifters and i gotta give props to you guys...couldnt throw up that kinda weight if my life depended on it ... but for me how i look in the mirror is much more gratifying than my ability to put up big #'s

[stunner5000pt]

Myofibril hyperthropy is just the muscle fiber increasing in size from stimulus, which is caused by an increase in actin and myosin filaments. This is pretty much proven and is the accepted theory. In science you can never say that something is a fact but there are literally thousands of research papers supporting this.

The second which is the muscle cell hyperplasia (MCHP), is when a muscle cell splits into two new muscle cells due to stimulus which forms a second nucleus. This however is not as solid. Scientist have seen it in animals such as octopi, however in mammals its really only been seen in cats. I actually just posted on another thread about reading a paper on it yesterday. A few and a stress a few studies have seen muscle cell hyperplasia in humans. It was thought until just about ten years ago that humans were not capable of doing this. Its been thought that much like brain and fat cell that a person is born with all the muscle cells that they will ever have. Now some new evidence is saying that this may not be true is some cases. One paper and I cant remember the paper, looked at elite bodybuilders and did muscle biopsies on the biceps. These bodybuilder seemed to show that under extreme stress that muscle cells at the ends of the biceps at the insertion and origin points would split and form new muscle cells. This was a pretty landmark paper when it came out they called it end on end point MCHP. However this study theorized that this was due to the extreme stress that the muscle cell encounters at the attachment points to the tendon and bones. It was not seen in the actually muscle belly of the biceps as I recall.I read another one that looked at how the use of an anabolic substance may induce MCHP. This one is a fairly new paper but is i couldnt find any other papers that supported it. But I didnt do an extensive search I was just messing around while I was bored.

The point about the powerlifts too is that they also make use of leverage and kinetics. The average 200 lbs person if they could somehow contract all there muscles at once and in a coherent fashion can produce a force of over 1 ton.
The athletes that amaze me are gymnast those guys are all ripped and do some incredible feats of strength.

I havent quit decided if Im going to do PhD. or Some sort of Health profession doctorate.

im gonna search for those papers... if u find them dont be shy to post them

now what i want to know is Myofibrillar hypertriphy 'visible' .. you know like... is that what makes you look 'big'

or would it just contribute to density??

[stunner5000pt]

11 in favour of getting big
2 in favour of getting strong

i m getting a feeling that i shouldnt choose strength...

[Benches505]

Both for me too, If I had to pick one or the other...Strength 100%

What good is being big without the strength?

[Panzerfaust]

couldnt give 2 shits about how strong i am...you always see those wannabe's throwing up weight they shouldnt w/ absolutely terrible form (and of course there are real powerlifters and i gotta give props to you guys...couldnt throw up that kinda weight if my life depended on it ... but for me how i look in the mirror is much more gratifying than my ability to put up big #'s

Gotta say i am with you. I don't care what kind of weight i put up, i put up what i feel comportable doing and with good form, other than that you will not catch me trying some absurd amount of weight to impress anyone.

I am bigger than alot of people (not saying much at all) and i have seen them lift some crazy shit IMO.

[stunner5000pt]

Both for me too, If I had to pick one or the other...Strength 100%

What good is being big without the strength?

well if you're big then you, if you'll pardon the pun, have a change of scoring 'big' like your avatar

[zaggahamma]

would want both but if i had to choose....i'd rather have the physique of arnold than to win the strongest man contest

[beuleux]

Gotta say i am with you. I don't care what kind of weight i put up, i put up what i feel comportable doing and with good form, other than that you will not catch me trying some absurd amount of weight to impress anyone.

I am bigger than alot of people (not saying much at all) and i have seen them lift some crazy shit IMO.

agreed... if you can lift your max with good clean form then size should follow. IMO people who do ridiculously heavy curls like its a hip and lower back excersise are not strong.

[Doc.Sust]

strength and functional training for me, when i quit competeing, than i will change my training as if i was a BBer

[cfiler]

I'd rather look big than just being strong.

The visual apsect is one of the main reasons I work out.

[Schmidty]

Its not about how much you bench, its how much you look like you can bench

[Schmidty]

I do alot of reps and i gain weight.I lift heavy and I dont gain anything.Thats just what seems to happen with me

[Squatman51]

Id rather be strong and powerful than look it but i still add a touch of bodybuilding cuz i want to get big too

it all depends on your goals, for me personally im training for next years football season and i enjoy powerlifitng and olympic lifting which relate to football also so it more strength and power for me but someone who does not compete and just like to lift would probably rather want the looks more than strength and if i was a bodybuilder i would obviously want size and not worry about strength too much at all becuase your judged on your body not strength so you do what your sport or goals require

[stunner5000pt]

as more people see this thread the big/strenght ratio is geting smaller

i'd liek to see how this thread turns out ...

[Andorious]

of course i'd rather have both, and i am training for size right now, but i took the question as if I could only be one of them. in that case i chose strength, cause being big and weak sounded worse than small but strong.

[MuscleScience]

im gonna search for those papers... if u find them dont be shy to post them

now what i want to know is Myofibrillar hypertriphy 'visible' .. you know like... is that what makes you look 'big'

or would it just contribute to density??

well yes and no, no in the fact unless you had a microscope. Yes in the fact that its a cumulative effect. So in theory everytime you activate a muscle to maximally contract you cause practically ever muscle fiber to contract. Then this cause a stimulus across millions and millions of contractile units and when they increase in size then they should all increase in size. Density of a muscle will also have to do with neuromuscular tonus (muscle tone). When you weight train you not only cause changes in your muscles fibers but also in the neural motor pathways. One's muscle tone will usually increase as a result of weight training. Muscle tone is just basically motor units randomly firing in the muscle to maintain tension.

[stunner5000pt]

well yes and no, no in the fact unless you had a microscope. Yes in the fact that its a cumulative effect. So in theory everytime you activate a muscle to maximally contract you cause practically ever muscle fiber to contract. Then this cause a stimulus across millions and millions of contractile units and when they increase in size then they should all increase in size. Density of a muscle will also have to do with neuromuscular tonus (muscle tone). When you weight train you not only cause changes in your muscles fibers but also in the neural motor pathways. One's muscle tone will usually increase as a result of weight training. Muscle tone is just basically motor units randomly firing in the muscle to maintain tension.

oh i see

so let me see if i understand you right... with myofibrillar hypertrophy the overall muscle mass will increase for the entire body ??

[QuieTSToRM33]

Strength over size ... no doubt about it

[MuscleScience]

oh i see

so let me see if i understand you right... with myofibrillar hypertrophy the overall muscle mass will increase for the entire body ??

Just the particular muscle that is being exercised. So if you only do bicep curls your arms will get bigger and stronger but not your legs.

Now Im going to throw a good one at you. If you only do bicep curls on the right arm and never the left. Your left arm will show some increase in strenght and tone. And this has to do what I posted in the last reply. Your brain will however man no distinction between left and right when it sends out neural tone. The signal effectively will split and I believe its a little weaker to the left arm. But you will get a neuromusclar adaptation in the left arm as well. However its will be much less as you can imagine.

[Schmidty]

that is some of the craziest shit i have ever heard

Just the particular muscle that is being exercised. So if you only do bicep curls your arms will get bigger and stronger but not your legs.

Now Im going to throw a good one at you. If you only do bicep curls on the right arm and never the left. Your left arm will show some increase in strenght and tone. And this has to do what I posted in the last reply. Your brain will however man no distinction between left and right when it sends out neural tone. The signal effectively will split and I believe its a little weaker to the left arm. But you will get a neuromusclar adaptation in the left arm as well. However its will be much less as you can imagine.

[MuscleScience]

that is some of the craziest shit i have ever heard

Yeah my professor told me that like 3 years ago. I thought he was completely ful of Sh-t. Then about a year ago I was doing a research article and came across some things talking about this. Its pretty cool though. The body has lots of cool stuff like that. I will post more when I think of them.

[stunner5000pt]

Just the particular muscle that is being exercised. So if you only do bicep curls your arms will get bigger and stronger but not your legs.

Now Im going to throw a good one at you. If you only do bicep curls on the right arm and never the left. Your left arm will show some increase in strenght and tone. And this has to do what I posted in the last reply. Your brain will however man no distinction between left and right when it sends out neural tone. The signal effectively will split and I believe its a little weaker to the left arm. But you will get a neuromusclar adaptation in the left arm as well. However its will be much less as you can imagine.

would this have anything to do with muscle memory??

[MuscleScience]

would this have anything to do with muscle memory??

Muscle memory is your motor units being trained to fire in a particular sequence either in one muscle or a combination of muscle groups. like a baseball player swinging at a ball. Its a practice program stored in the cerebral cortex of the brain.