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Thread: New Jersey votes to approve Gay Civil Unions

  1. #1
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    New Jersey votes to approve Gay Civil Unions

    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/15/ny...syahoo&emc=rss

    TRENTON, Dec. 14 — The Legislature voted on Thursday to make New Jersey the third state in the nation to recognize civil unions for same-sex couples. In doing so, it moved quickly to fulfill a court mandate to provide equal rights to gay couples but frustrated people on both sides of the emotional issue.

    Gov. Jon S. Corzine, who is expected to sign the measure into law, said, “I think we’re doing the right thing.”

    In joining Vermont and Connecticut in establishing the parallel institution of civil unions, New Jersey shunned the option of opening marriage to same-sex couples. Massachusetts is the only state that allows gay marriage, and it has a residency requirement; some same-sex couples have married in Canada.

    New Jersey’s new unions, which would take effect 60 days after the governor gives the nod, would expand on the domestic partnership arrangements the state has had since 2004. Gay couples would gain benefits like adoption privileges, inheritance rights and the ability to take a partner’s surname without going to court.

    But gay-rights advocates continued to contend Thursday that the separate institutions were inherently unequal and promised to keep pushing for nothing short of marriage itself.

    “We’re planning a massive rally the day the civil union law takes effect, to pre-empt the idea that this is a day for celebration,” said Steven Goldstein, the chairman of Garden State Equality, a gay-rights group.

    Still, about 20 supporters of gay rights who had gathered in the gallery for the hourlong floor debate cheered when the Assembly voted 56 to 19 in midafternoon to approve the measure. They also applauded when Assemblyman Reed Gusciora, a Princeton Democrat, said, “The distance between nothing and civil unions is greater than the distance between civil unions and marriage.”

    But Assemblyman Ronald S. Dancer, a Republican from Ocean County, said that the bill was an affront to the Bible, and that “this is one time that I cannot compromise my personal beliefs and faiths.”

    The Senate passed the bill 23 to 12.

    The civil union law was written under pressure, in response to a directive by the New Jersey Supreme Court seven weeks ago that the state grant gay and lesbian couples exactly the same financial benefits and legal rights as married heterosexual couples.

    The Supreme Court gave the Legislature 180 days to decide whether gay couples should be allowed to marry or placed on a separate, parallel track. Both houses quickly settled on the civil union route, sending it through in just 10 days from introduction to final votes.

    While the Legislature was instructed not to fall short of equality in the benefits it extended, conservatives lobbied to reserve the word “marriage” for heterosexuals, and on Thursday Republicans tried unsuccessfully to amend the bill to define marriage as the union of one man and one woman.

    “I believe the foundation of our state is families, marriage, one man, one woman,” said Senator Robert W. Singer, the Republican from Jackson who sponsored the amendment proposal. “Why do you want to crumble that? We’re not taking away anyone’s rights, just sanctifying what marriage is.”

    Without the amendment, the legislation leaves open the possibility of allowing same-sex marriage.

    “Give us two to five years,” said Assemblyman Wilfredo Caraballo, the Newark Democrat who introduced the civil unions measure. “In a year and a half or two years we’ll see that the world hasn’t collapsed, heterosexuals are still getting married and God hasn’t thrown fire and brimstone on us.”

    Mr. Caraballo said proponents of gay marriage could not have pushed through a full marriage bill by the court’s deadline in April.

    He noted that just three years ago, it was a struggle to enact the limited package of rights and benefits that characterize domestic partnerships. “We had to twist arms to get 41 votes,” he said.

    But Mr. Goldstein pointed to the legislators, including some Republicans, who had said the civil union bill did not go far enough. “Today’s debate for civil unions could be summed up in two words: buyer’s remorse, for legislators who wish they were voting for full marriage equality,” he said.

    David Buckel, of the Lam**a Legal Defense and Education Fund, said after the Senate vote, “This law hit with a dull thud.”

    Mr. Buckel represents the couples whose lawsuit led to the Oct. 25 Supreme Court decision, in which the justices held unanimously that to deny them the full rights accorded married heterosexual couples violated their equal protection rights. He said he would consult his clients about going to the court again to argue that the new law does not meet its mandate.

    Few legislators have said explicitly that they oppose civil unions. In the floor debate Thursday, several Republicans raised other objections (no Democrat voted against the measure).

    Assemblyman Richard A. Merkt of Morris County contended that the Supreme Court had overreached, saying, “I expect once again this Legislature will surrender its authority as it has many times in the last 40 years.”

    Social conservatives had focused their efforts on retaining the traditional definition of marriage. Len Deo, the president of the New Jersey Family Policy Council, said at a news conference Thursday with Senator Singer that the civil union bill “moves us toward same-sex marriage.”

    “People have a right to rights,” Mr. Deo said, “but they don’t have a right to redefine an institution that’s served us well for 2,000 years.”

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    http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/jersey...010.xml&coll=1

    Pastor at Senate invocation curses 'spirit' of gay marriage
    Tuesday, December 12, 2006

    A pastor delivering the invocation at the opening of yesterday's Senate session included in his prayer a condemnation of gay marriage.

    "We curse the spirit that would come to bring about same-sex marriage," the Rev. Vincent Fields, pastor of Greater Works Ministries in Absecon, prayed as lawmakers listened, heads bowed. "We ask you to just look over this place today, cause them to be shaken in their very heart in uprightness, Lord, to do that is right before you."

    Earlier yesterday the Senate Judiciary Committee approved legislation to allow gay couples to form civil unions with the same rights as married couples.

    Sen. Loretta Weinberg (D-Bergen), a co-sponsor of that bill, said it was "completely inappropriate" for Fields to include the issue in the invocation.

    "I do not think a pastor should be using the microphone in the Senate for a prayer to open the session by lobbying for or against something," Weinberg said. "Usually, if you're going to lobby members you have to wear a lobbyist badge."

    Fields could not be reached last night for comment.

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    Good!

    as long as they're not doing it in front of the TV while I'm trying to watch I don't care what consenting adults do!....I don't understand why anyone cares as long as they don't harm anyone

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tock
    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/15/ny...syahoo&emc=rss

    TRENTON, Dec. 14 — The Legislature voted on Thursday to make New Jersey the third state in the nation to recognize civil unions for same-sex couples. In doing so, it moved quickly to fulfill a court mandate to provide equal rights to gay couples but frustrated people on both sides of the emotional issue.

    Gov. Jon S. Corzine, who is expected to sign the measure into law, said, “I think we’re doing the right thing.”

    In joining Vermont and Connecticut in establishing the parallel institution of civil unions, New Jersey shunned the option of opening marriage to same-sex couples. Massachusetts is the only state that allows gay marriage, and it has a residency requirement; some same-sex couples have married in Canada.

    New Jersey’s new unions, which would take effect 60 days after the governor gives the nod, would expand on the domestic partnership arrangements the state has had since 2004. Gay couples would gain benefits like adoption privileges, inheritance rights and the ability to take a partner’s surname without going to court.

    But gay-rights advocates continued to contend Thursday that the separate institutions were inherently unequal and promised to keep pushing for nothing short of marriage itself.

    “We’re planning a massive rally the day the civil union law takes effect, to pre-empt the idea that this is a day for celebration,” said Steven Goldstein, the chairman of Garden State Equality, a gay-rights group.

    Still, about 20 supporters of gay rights who had gathered in the gallery for the hourlong floor debate cheered when the Assembly voted 56 to 19 in midafternoon to approve the measure. They also applauded when Assemblyman Reed Gusciora, a Princeton Democrat, said, “The distance between nothing and civil unions is greater than the distance between civil unions and marriage.”

    But Assemblyman Ronald S. Dancer, a Republican from Ocean County, said that the bill was an affront to the Bible, and that “this is one time that I cannot compromise my personal beliefs and faiths.”

    The Senate passed the bill 23 to 12.

    The civil union law was written under pressure, in response to a directive by the New Jersey Supreme Court seven weeks ago that the state grant gay and lesbian couples exactly the same financial benefits and legal rights as married heterosexual couples.

    The Supreme Court gave the Legislature 180 days to decide whether gay couples should be allowed to marry or placed on a separate, parallel track. Both houses quickly settled on the civil union route, sending it through in just 10 days from introduction to final votes.

    While the Legislature was instructed not to fall short of equality in the benefits it extended, conservatives lobbied to reserve the word “marriage” for heterosexuals, and on Thursday Republicans tried unsuccessfully to amend the bill to define marriage as the union of one man and one woman.

    “I believe the foundation of our state is families, marriage, one man, one woman,” said Senator Robert W. Singer, the Republican from Jackson who sponsored the amendment proposal. “Why do you want to crumble that? We’re not taking away anyone’s rights, just sanctifying what marriage is.”

    Without the amendment, the legislation leaves open the possibility of allowing same-sex marriage.

    “Give us two to five years,” said Assemblyman Wilfredo Caraballo, the Newark Democrat who introduced the civil unions measure. “In a year and a half or two years we’ll see that the world hasn’t collapsed, heterosexuals are still getting married and God hasn’t thrown fire and brimstone on us.”

    Mr. Caraballo said proponents of gay marriage could not have pushed through a full marriage bill by the court’s deadline in April.

    He noted that just three years ago, it was a struggle to enact the limited package of rights and benefits that characterize domestic partnerships. “We had to twist arms to get 41 votes,” he said.

    But Mr. Goldstein pointed to the legislators, including some Republicans, who had said the civil union bill did not go far enough. “Today’s debate for civil unions could be summed up in two words: buyer’s remorse, for legislators who wish they were voting for full marriage equality,” he said.

    David Buckel, of the Lam**a Legal Defense and Education Fund, said after the Senate vote, “This law hit with a dull thud.”

    Mr. Buckel represents the couples whose lawsuit led to the Oct. 25 Supreme Court decision, in which the justices held unanimously that to deny them the full rights accorded married heterosexual couples violated their equal protection rights. He said he would consult his clients about going to the court again to argue that the new law does not meet its mandate.

    Few legislators have said explicitly that they oppose civil unions. In the floor debate Thursday, several Republicans raised other objections (no Democrat voted against the measure).

    Assemblyman Richard A. Merkt of Morris County contended that the Supreme Court had overreached, saying, “I expect once again this Legislature will surrender its authority as it has many times in the last 40 years.”

    Social conservatives had focused their efforts on retaining the traditional definition of marriage. Len Deo, the president of the New Jersey Family Policy Council, said at a news conference Thursday with Senator Singer that the civil union bill “moves us toward same-sex marriage.”

    “People have a right to rights,” Mr. Deo said, “but they don’t have a right to redefine an institution that’s served us well for 2,000 years.”
    Civil Unions are a good compromise, I think that it will accomplish everything needed. I think that if the ballot measures across the country would have been for civil unions instead of same-sex marriage, most of the country would have voted yes for it.

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    Actually, I favor civil unions over marriage . . . for everyone.

    If marriage is a religious thing, a ceremony that binds 2 people before a deity, then there isn't any real reason for a secular government to recognize it. If governments recognize religious marriages, then why not bar-mitzvahs or confirmations?

    If 2 people want to form a partnership, to be recognized before the law as mutually responsible for each other's debts and assets, to have legal rights to medical decisions if the other is incapicatated, and to have rights to the other's property in case of death, well, the church will have no say in such things. But secular courts of law will.
    So, it seems to me that anyone who wants a religious ceremony should get one at whatever church that will accomadate their request, and that anyone who wants their partnership recognized in a court of law should register that partnership at the local or county that keeps track of such things.

    Yep, civil unions for everybody. No special rights for people who have religious ceremonies.

  6. #6
    I didn't read anything... but gay people crack me up.. My girlfriend goes to school in NYC and has a few gay friends... i'm not talking like flaming just normal everyday gay like will and grace, Will kinda gay friends and they are a freaking blast... if you don't have a gay friend get one, cause if you go drinking they will buy you everything and keep you laughing all night

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    I bet I could insert as much religion as I want into this thread and carlos wouldn't close it!

  8. #8
    gay people use baby wipes sometimes... its true, i've heard stories

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by alphaman
    I bet I could insert as much religion as I want into this thread and carlos wouldn't close it!
    You guessed wrong. I would close it like the other thread started by Tock.
    Muscle Asylum Project Athlete

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    Quote Originally Posted by ToTheBuckeT21
    I didn't read anything... but gay people crack me up.. My girlfriend goes to school in NYC and has a few gay friends... i'm not talking like flaming just normal everyday gay like will and grace, Will kinda gay friends and they are a freaking blast... if you don't have a gay friend get one, cause if you go drinking they will buy you everything and keep you laughing all night
    Will and Grace is not representative of every day gay people.
    Muscle Asylum Project Athlete

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToTheBuckeT21
    gay people use baby wipes sometimes... its true, i've heard stories
    So do straight members of this forum. What's your point?
    Muscle Asylum Project Athlete

  12. #12
    HAHAHAHHAHAAHAHHA!!!... best post ever!!!!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos_E
    You guessed wrong. I would close it like the other thread started by Tock.

    It was a joke.

  14. #14
    close it!!! NJ is stupid!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by alphaman
    I bet I could insert as much religion as I want into this thread and carlos wouldn't close it!
    I don't think that the back-and-forth theological arguements we've had over scripture interpretation would fly. It's probably not appropriate for this website, so I'm trying to avoid getting into such disputes, even though (for some strange reason) I thoroughly enjoy such things.

    But conversation regarding newsworthy and controversial topics like gay marriage, including opposition to it from social conservatives and the New Jersey Legislature's official Christian chaplain, seems, to me anyway, to be a fair target for discussion and reasoned analysis. Of course, that's up to the moderators to decide.

    Meanwhile, we can do without the mindless grunts from the swill pits, such as we occasionally endure from time to time . . .

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    Quote Originally Posted by ToTheBuckeT21
    I didn't read anything... but gay people crack me up.. My girlfriend goes to school in NYC and has a few gay friends... i'm not talking like flaming just normal everyday gay like will and grace, Will kinda gay friends and they are a freaking blast... if you don't have a gay friend get one, cause if you go drinking they will buy you everything and keep you laughing all night
    maybe he was just trying to get you drunk.........

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos_E
    You guessed wrong. I would close it like the other thread started by Tock.
    When did you shave your head Carlos?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos_E
    So do straight members of this forum. What's your point?
    Hell, my wife uses them after sex, along with a bag of ice......

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tock
    Actually, I favor civil unions over marriage . . . for everyone.

    If marriage is a religious thing, a ceremony that binds 2 people before a deity, then there isn't any real reason for a secular government to recognize it. If governments recognize religious marriages, then why not bar-mitzvahs or confirmations?

    If 2 people want to form a partnership, to be recognized before the law as mutually responsible for each other's debts and assets, to have legal rights to medical decisions if the other is incapicatated, and to have rights to the other's property in case of death, well, the church will have no say in such things. But secular courts of law will.
    So, it seems to me that anyone who wants a religious ceremony should get one at whatever church that will accomadate their request, and that anyone who wants their partnership recognized in a court of law should register that partnership at the local or county that keeps track of such things.

    Yep, civil unions for everybody. No special rights for people who have religious ceremonies.
    You can wish in one hand and shit in the other, let us know which one fills up first.........

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logan13
    When did you shave your head Carlos?
    I always shave my head. I have for maybe 3 or 4 years.
    Muscle Asylum Project Athlete

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    I'm just so tickled for everyone here, and of course New Jersey..the "garden state"

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