Freaking Out!

[a00647136]

Hey guys, I'm freaking out! I finished up my second go around of M1T about 4 months ago, and used 6-oxo (I know...I'm a stupid f*ck) as my pct. Everything was fine and dandy, up until about a couple days ago when I noticed a slight tingle in my left nipple. Well it has only gotten worse, and now it kinda hurts to touch. I felt for lumps, and there is one above, slightly to the side (top corner). My right side is completely fine, with no tenderness/soreness or bumps. Could it be gyno?! I have no nolva on hand (once again, I know...I'm a stupid f*ck). I've heard of delayed gyno by a couple months, but 4 months? A friend of mine thinks that it is purely natural hormonal fluctuation, and that it should go away on its own within a couple of days;I'm not so sure. What do you guys think? Thanks.
P.S: I know...I'm a stupid f*ck, but if you could try and just give me sound advice, instead of telling me something I already know, like how I'm a stupid f*ck.

[MuscleScience]

Better get yourself some anti-E ASAP.

[Kale]

Hey guys, I'm freaking out! I finished up my second go around of M1T about 4 months ago, and used 6-oxo (I know...I'm a stupid f*ck) as my pct. Everything was fine and dandy, up until about a couple days ago when I noticed a slight tingle in my left nipple. Well it has only gotten worse, and now it kinda hurts to touch. I felt for lumps, and there is one above, slightly to the side (top corner). My right side is completely fine, with no tenderness/soreness or bumps. Could it be gyno?! I have no nolva on hand (once again, I know...I'm a stupid f*ck). I've heard of delayed gyno by a couple months, but 4 months? A friend of mine thinks that it is purely natural hormonal fluctuation, and that it should go away on its own within a couple of days;I'm not so sure. What do you guys think? Thanks.
P.S: I know...I'm a stupid f*ck, but if you could try and just give me sound advice, instead of telling me something I already know, like how I'm a stupid f*ck.

First thing you should do is get a blood test and see where your Test and especially your Estrogen levels are at. I would, at the same time, order some letro from here http://www.ar-r.com/shop/product_inf...20ba80796941c9

[a00647136]

Thanks for the quick replies. Kale, do you think Letro will be more effective then nolva? What dosage do you recommend and for how long? Sorry is this is a stupid question, but why not liquidex or arimidex or aromasin? Just curious to why you would chose one over the other, for this purpose.

[Kale]

Thanks for the quick replies. Kale, do you think Letro will be more effective then nolva? What dosage do you recommend and for how long? Sorry is this is a stupid question, but why not liquidex or arimidex or aromasin? Just curious to why you would chose one over the other, for this purpose.

Letro is a million times more effective than Nolva at fixing Gyno. Have a read of this dude http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=236880 As for why Letro if you already have gyno then Letro is just about the only thing left that has a reasonable chance of getting rid of it , depending on how far it has gone.

[a00647136]

Cool thanks. You've been really really helpful bro. I'll order some of that ASAP. Another question...could letro be used as a stand alone PCT? How about to bring test levels back up? If not, what would you suggest using along with letro?

[Kale]

Cool thanks. You've been really really helpful bro. I'll order some of that ASAP. Another question...could letro be used as a stand alone PCT? How about to bring test levels back up? If not, what would you suggest using along with letro?

PCT is a different story, no letro required for that. Here is your PCT education !!!

Pheedno's PCT
My post cycle therapy consists of a three compound administration which is designed so that there is a primary and secondary LH stimulator which both are maximizing potential early in the duration; with the primary being phased out in extended protocol. With the addition of an Aromatase Inhibitor, which makes the above possible, the individual will also endure less of an increase in Sex Hormone Binding Globulin, which allows free testosterone levels to reach base line at a much quicker pace. The individual will also see less of a problem in most cases with sexual libido as the bounding SHBG is controlled(to an extent). Below you will find my suggested bare minimum, as well as a sample of an extended protocol. Extended PCT protcol is cycle length dependant so the below is not the standard for all cycles


PCT for cycles 8-16wks:
Day 1-30- .25mg L-dex + 100mg Clomid + 20mg Nolva

Extended protocol sample for a 12+ month cycle:
Day 1-15_ .25mg L-dex + 100mg Clomid + 20mg Nolva
Day 16-45_.25mg L-dex + 75mg Clomid + 20mg Nolva
Day 46-65_.25mg L-dex + 20mg Nolva
Day 66-80_.25mg L-dex

Now IMO, selective estrogen receptor modulators(SERMs) such as Clomiphine and Tamoxifen are selective to which tissues they bind too. Clomid being selective to the suprapituitary, while Tamox is selective to breast, bone, and liver ERs. I've come to this conclusion based on the comparison of studies on both SERMs. In every study showing benefit to HPTA from tamoxifin, the duration of the administration is 3-12months(This includes studies cited by William Llewellyn in his Nolva vs Clomid article). In studies showing levels of LH, FSH, and Testosterone checked after short durations of tamox, they were either insignificant, or their was an actual drop. I believe this is because tamox selectively works at the mammery(as well as bone and liver), thus taking longer for LH stimulation to occur.
With clomid, benefit to gonadotrophin concentrations, LH, FSH, and serum testosterone can be seen in short periods of 2-6wks. Because of the apparent selective nature of the two, and given our usual PCT duration, clomid is by far superior at LH stimulation than Nolva. Now both is the wise choice for a couple of reasons:

1. Nolva acts as the preventive measure to the estrogen flux
occured PC while clomid is the primary LH stimulator(Even more so in the case an AI is not used).
2. If your running a longer PCT, clomid needs to be discontinued after a while as it has been shown to desensitize GnRH, this due, IMO, to it's selective nature to the suprapituitary. In the longer forms of PCT, the clomid will be phased out, leaving Nolva and L-dex

Arimidex(or L-dex)
Estrogen is the main inhibitence of restoring HPTA, and AI administration has been shown to increase gonadotrophin concentrations and serum Testosterone by up to 50%. In addition, by adding L-dex, the inhibitence of excess estrogen allows Tamox to work greater at LH stimulation in the begining stages of PCT, since the need to prevent binding in the mammery is lessened by the reduction in estrogen biosynthesis
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[a00647136]

Man, I love this forum and its helpful members! . Thanks a million. One more question...By taking letro on its own in my situation, will it shut me down? If so, should I taper down then use nolva to prevent rebound, as stated here http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=236880? Will I need anything to bring test back up? Thanks again for your replies.

[Kale]

OK this is exactly what you do in your situation

Running letro to reverse gyno:
I am going to go over the three different scenarios which people could fit into. Remember regardless of what scenario you are in it is important that you begin taking the letro ASAP.

1. Already using an anti-e aside from letro.
2. Already using letro @ a dose of .25mg or .50mg ED.
3. Not running any estrogen protection.

1.
Day 1: .25mg Letro + anti-e*
Day 2: .50mg Letro
Day 3: 1.0mg Letro
Day 4: 1.5mg Letro
Day 5: 2.0mg Letro
Day 6: 2.5mg Letro **

2.
Day 1: .50mg Letro
Day 2: 1.0mg Letro
Day 3: 1.5mg Letro
Day 4: 2.0mg Letro
Day 5: 2.5mg Letro **

3.
Day 1: .50mg Letro
Day 2: 1.0mg Letro
Day 3: 1.5mg Letro
Day 4: 2.0mg Letro
Day 5: 2.5mg Letro **

*Regardless of the anti-e you are using it is important to still use it for the first day you begin letro as the letro will not have taken any effect and you by no means want your body to be without any protection when gyno is already prevalent.

** You will remain at this dose until gyno symptoms subside. Once you believe your gyno is gone it is important to stay at this dose for another 4-7 days to ensure all traces are gone. I recommend people with a bf% over 15 stay on for a week as it may be harder to judge completely whether the lump is completely gone. Once this period is over it will be important to taper letro down slowly rather than coming off it completely. Regardless of which manner you tapered up your dose you will all taper down in the same fashion.

Day 1: 2.0mg
Day 2: 1.5mg
Day 3: 1.0mg
Day 4: .50mg***
Day 5: .25mg
***You can remain at this dose or go down further to .25mg. It is really up to you at this point. They are both very common maintenance doses as an anti-e while on cycle. Personally I have stayed with .25mg and never had a problem.

Letro and the estrogen rebound:
With your estrogen being completely inhibited there is a definite estrogen rebound as your body tries to re-stabilize the testosterone:estrogen balance. We can prevent this rebound effect by supplementing further with another AI or SERM. So, I suggest that when you are coming to the end of your cycle you will more than likely be using Nolva in your PCT so just make sure that you begin taking nolva the last day you are going to take your letro and then continue on as you would with regular PCT.

This now leads us into the question of reversing gyno while not on cycle. There are a few things to remember here. You have already waited longer than you should have, and your sex drive will be shot. You can use tribulus or another natural test booster to help you in this scenario but I can’t guarantee the effectiveness. Just follow gyno reversal protocols 2 or 3. When coming off again you must taper and begin using nolvadex to prevent any rebound effect that may occur.

How much nolvadex should you use if you are not going into PCT and running this off cycle? I suggest starting at 20mg ED for a week and then lowering it to 10mg for another week and then coming off completely.

[2bshredded]

Bros are lucky to have you around Kale!