Quick Question

[JROKK26]

I can get these three product: M1T, !-AD, or SuperDrol. which one would be better to run as more of a cutting stack for 4 weeks? I was thinking of running it w/clen or Lipodrene with Ephedra. Would that be OK? All supporting supps. of course will be added.

Looking for any heplful advise/opinions

Thanks

[xlxBigSexyxlx]

Superdrol. Good lean, dry gains.

save the clen for PCT, and of course with your real PCT (aromasin and clomid)

[nsa]

M1t is not good for cutting cycles. Superdrol is better IMO for cutting cycles. I guess the other option was 1-ad? If thats the other option, i personally wouldn't run 1-ad without concurrently running 4-ad to offset some of the sides.

[JROKK26]

Cool, thanks bros. Haven't really ironed this out yet still in the beganing stages. So for cutting, that's 2 votes SD and 1 vote 1-AD w/4-AD concurrent. Run clen at PCT and yes, of course a real PCT. Remember seeing nolva is no good for SD or 1-ad PCT, right? I can't run comid, sides are too bad for me. What about aromasin and myogenx or maybe even try Cyogenx?

Any Thoughts?

Thanks

[JROKK26]

I remember reading NightTrain's log and he ran MM w/ WinZtrol for cutting. What about SD and WinZtrol?

[Manpretty]

well like everyone always says "everyones different" and thus i must tell you that M1T worked exteremely well as a cutter for me....gained muscle lost fat...
you gotta remember that a cutter is 99.999999% dependent on diet

[JROKK26]

True enough on the diet, so that's 1 vote for M1T

[Manpretty]

for sure man cals in vs cals out
gotta have cals out > cals in for a cutter
and cals in > cals out for a bulker

dosent matter what compounds you run you potentially cut or bulk on anything, unless water retention is an issue but an AI will easily take care of that

[nsa]

Umm... Actually it does matter what compounds you run. Certain compounds are much more suited for cutting/bulking. An example using gear that most everyone understands, i would not run deca while attempting to cut, and conversely i would not run winstrol if i was trying to bulk.

Granted a cutting/bulking cycle is largely dependent on the diet used, you won't see gains even comparable to what u could possibly attain if your not using the right compounds. i.e. winstrol while bulking & deca while cutting compared to the great results you would expect from using deca while bulking and winstrol while cutting.

I have experience with all 3 of the compounds you metioned in your initial post. In fact, i wrote a post a while back entitled 'M1T FAQ' that pretty much as all the info you could ever need regarding M1T. And if u feel like reading thru the 20 something pages you'll realize that m1t isn't well suited for cutting.

M1T will most definately make you lethargic as all h3ll while cutting. IMO it would be best for u to use SD and 4-ad while cutting. The gains should be dry and clean with a cutting diet, and the 4-ad will help increase the gains in muscle mass while also helping to alleviate any libido/lethargy issues associated with low endogenous testosterone production caused by the introduction of an exogenous anabolic/androgenic hormone into your body.

[JROKK26]

Good stuff, I think that's exactly what I was looking for. I just have a friend who has used 1-ad and has been selling me on doing a 4 weeker w/ him.

[JROKK26]

bump

[Manpretty]

Umm... Actually it does matter what compounds you run. Certain compounds are much more suited for cutting/bulking. An example using gear that most everyone understands, i would not run deca while attempting to cut, and conversely i would not run winstrol if i was trying to bulk.

Granted a cutting/bulking cycle is largely dependent on the diet used, you won't see gains even comparable to what u could possibly attain if your not using the right compounds. i.e. winstrol while bulking & deca while cutting compared to the great results you would expect from using deca while bulking and winstrol while cutting.

I have experience with all 3 of the compounds you metioned in your initial post. In fact, i wrote a post a while back entitled 'M1T FAQ' that pretty much as all the info you could ever need regarding M1T. And if u feel like reading thru the 20 something pages you'll realize that m1t isn't well suited for cutting.

M1T will most definately make you lethargic as all h3ll while cutting. IMO it would be best for u to use SD and 4-ad while cutting. The gains should be dry and clean with a cutting diet, and the 4-ad will help increase the gains in muscle mass while also helping to alleviate any libido/lethargy issues associated with low endogenous testosterone production caused by the introduction of an exogenous anabolic/androgenic hormone into your body.

so you are saying assuming prefect diet and i mean prefect that you would find more gains from deca than winstrol for a bulk????? and just to be clear im talking about lbm as gains

i dont think so man.....what i think is that you would find very little difference in the amount of lbm's you gained off either

conversely in a cutter the idea is to maintain muscle mass while cutting fat and therefor both of these steroids will provide enough of an anabolic state to do so.....the only difference would be water wieght wwhich i already stated was not considered a "gain"


and i should have posted it because i knew you would use lethargy as an excuse for not using M1T for a cutter? how did i know that? because youll use the excuse that a lowcal low carb diet(most people's idea of a cutting diet) will increase the already high lethargy caused by the M1T.

however a cutting diet does not have to be low carb just low cal. ill repeat cals in<cals out for a cutter.

furthermore with the right supplementation lethargy is not a factor in an M1T cycle

[nsa]

so you are saying assuming prefect diet and i mean prefect that you would find more gains from deca than winstrol for a bulk????? and just to be clear im talking about lbm as gains

i dont think so man.....what i think is that you would find very little difference in the amount of lbm's you gained off either

conversely in a cutter the idea is to maintain muscle mass while cutting fat and therefor both of these steroids will provide enough of an anabolic state to do so.....the only difference would be water wieght wwhich i already stated was not considered a "gain"


and i should have posted it because i knew you would use lethargy as an excuse for not using M1T for a cutter? how did i know that? because youll use the excuse that a lowcal low carb diet(most people's idea of a cutting diet) will increase the already high lethargy caused by the M1T.

however a cutting diet does not have to be low carb just low cal. ill repeat cals in<cals out for a cutter.

furthermore with the right supplementation lethargy is not a factor in an M1T cycle

I have extensive experience in exercise physiology, sports nutrition, and a good knowledge of organic chemistry. Not to mention lots of experience with m1t and other anabolics.

That being said, i wish it was as simple as your thinking it is. Your not taking into account the impacts that M1T will cause being introduced into your body. I understand your mention of proper supplementing to compensate for lethargy, but how exactly do u suggest he supplements his diet to eliminate lethargy? M1T strongly effects your triglyceride and cholesterol levels, which are not things you really want to fluctuate much without Dr. supervision. M1T also effects blood-sugar levels, which can cause you to crash like an insomniac. It also severely drops your natural endogenous test production which will make you lethargic.

These 3 are serious issues that aren't as simple as 'im tired from cutting calories' and when do cut calories, your not giving your body all the building blocks it needs for growth. So without the hormones you would be almost entirely catabolic, but with the hormones your maintaining muscle mass, either way your not anabolic nearly as much as you would be if u were in excess of calories.

Ask someone with experience using the compounds in question and knowledge of human physiology, its common knowledge that certain hormones are more suited for bulking and others are more suited for maintenance. Its just the way things are, different hormones have different characteristics.

Just curious, how many cycles have u done with m1t, winstrol or deca?

[Manpretty]

5 m1t; two of those were cuts; 1 cycle that involved winny; no deca
you bring up great points but those issues are m1t related and do not pretain to the type of cycle you run ie cut vs bulk. the reason i bring up just low cal diets and not low carb as well is because you are still able to cut as long as you are deficient in cals right? well incorporating carb is one way of fighting lethargy no? yes? yes!!

explain to me what about M1T besides lethargy makes it not the right choice to cut with.....because as we have established lethargy is not and issue now that we know that with the right diet plus supplementation these sides are minimal to non existant

[JROKK26]

You both make good points. Diet is very importent as we all know, as is the right supplementation. However I don't believe I would ever do a cut w/ deca/test-e either.

So need a little help putting this together. So far the research I've done suggests that 1-ad/44ad is the best stack to start with, it would work well on a cut, and sides to gains ratio is lower too. All important for a first timer on a prohormone.

THIS IS FOR ONE BOTTLE OF 1-AD 100mg 60 Caps Per Bottle. The quality and dose is exactly the same as from Ergopharm. The Manufacturer of this product is Icon Sciences. The 4-AD is from Advanced Muscle Science. Are these both good products?? Or should I be looking for Ergopharm??

What doses do you guys recommend?
1-ad:
200/200/300/300????
200/300/300/300????

AMS 4-AD :
2, 3, 0r 4 caps ED????

Also PCT:
Nolva and myogenx? Should be fine right?

Thanks

[Manpretty]

look thus far i havent given you any advice on compounds for a reason.... you need to post cycle history and stats then i will suggest something....but unless you do that all recomendations a null

[JROKK26]

Stats:
5'11
198lbs
45'chest
34'waist
~14-15% BF
275lbs incl. bb press 1rep
315lbs squat 3 reps
245lbs deadlift 4 reps (just started about 3 months ago)
1 cycle- Test-e 13 weeks
4 week PCT w/aromasin,nolva,clen,and myogenx
21lbs gained on 12lbs net after PCT

[JROKK26]

Bump

[JROKK26]

Somebody?.....Anybody?.....
Bump

[JROKK26]

little help please. I've done the research can't find too much on 1-ad and I've never done a prohormone before a couple quick answers and opinions would be a lot of help

Thanks

[Manpretty]

ok dude my advice for your cutting cycle is to drop 1-4ad and just go with one compound

20mged SD or 20mged M1T IMO for 3-4weeks along with Ephedra stack taken in the morning before cardio. remember ECA stacks are effective for ~two weeks befroe your beta receptors are downgraded.....

AND BEFORE ANY OF THAT GET YOUR DIET IN CHECK-----> please do this or dont cycle
use that diet forum for that

[JROKK26]

OK so if I decide to go with SD I would run it 20mg for 4 weeks or 20/20/30/30? I can get the original AX SD but it's like $90+ WTF! So how about M-Drol http://www.dpsnutrition.net/item.asp?n=CG001 a good clone? or methyl-Vol? Trying not to spend too much money or i may as well do a test-e winny cycle. Also, nolva is a no no with this compound is that correct? So PCT has to be clomid? I have horrible sides with clomid what else can I do if no nolva?

[Manpretty]

bump for tank regarding the pct ....but aromasin i think dont quote me tho

id stick with one dose throughout 20mg will be fine

[UpstateTank]

can i get a HORRAY 4 clomid + aromasin!

nolva CAN b used but just b aware that it has cause progesterone related gyno in some ppl due to nolvas upregulation of your PgR--albiet SD is not a progestin per se, it apparently exhibits progestinic properties

[JROKK26]

So you're saying suck it and use the clomid even if the sides get too bad. Can't just do aromasin and myogenx? What do you think Tank? Also 20 mg all 4 weeks huh? I should go with the Methyl-Vol, right guys? Let's iron this out and I'll post all support supps dosages compounds and PCT and we'll finalize this mothaF**** maybe I'll start a log too.

Thanks Manpretty for all your help. Also thanks Tank for dropping in.

[JROKK26]

^^^Bump^^^^

[JROKK26]

OK well I want to place my order today...
M-Drol 90 caps
20mg for 4 weeks
Prefect-cycle liver support
PCT
aromasin and myogenx

I will be adding more support supps of course, have that all down on paper at home. I'll post it later...

Bump for Tank and Manpretty...what do you think?

[nsa]

OK well I want to place my order today...
M-Drol 90 caps
20mg for 4 weeks
Prefect-cycle liver support
PCT
aromasin and myogenx

I will be adding more support supps of course, have that all down on paper at home. I'll post it later...

Bump for Tank and Manpretty...what do you think?

I understand your points manpretty, i guess we have to agree to disagree.

Jrokk, i think you would be best suited to grab some SD, transdermal 1-ad and transdermal 4-ad. The pill form of 4-ad isn't my favorite, transdermal works much better. With milk thistle, NAC, niacin, red yeast rice, and hawthorne berry extract. The serms are dependent upon your personal liking IMO, some people swear by clomid/nolvadex, others go with aromasin/nolva, but whatever works for you. I think that would suit u well for a cutting cycle.

[JROKK26]

Thanks again nsa, Here's what I've finally decided on.....

Methyl Vol (same compound as SD w/Nitric Oxide and liver support supps
20mg 4 weeks

Support Supp. (not including what's in the Methyl Vol)
Red Yeast Rice 1200 mg
Silymarin (milk thistle extract) 1600 mg
NAC 1200 mg
Hawthorn Berry 1550 mg
Saw Palmetto 300 mg
Policosonol 20 mg
Celery Seed Extract 150 mg
Nettle Root 250 mg
Idebenone 100 mg
Niacin Flush Free 1000 mg

PCT
.25mg LiquiDex(AR-R) and Myogenx 6 caps ed

Diet: 300g pro/100g carb/50g fat...may adjust from here

Look good??

[JROKK26]

looking for confirmation....or any additional advise....am I missing anything??

Bump

[Manpretty]

I understand your points manpretty, i guess we have to agree to disagree.

Jrokk, i think you would be best suited to grab some SD, transdermal 1-ad and transdermal 4-ad. The pill form of 4-ad isn't my favorite, transdermal works much better. With milk thistle, NAC, niacin, red yeast rice, and hawthorne berry extract. The serms are dependent upon your personal liking IMO, some people swear by clomid/nolvadex, others go with aromasin/nolva, but whatever works for you. I think that would suit u well for a cutting cycle.

yep looks like great advice IMO i still think one compound would be fine but its totally up to Jrokk

everything else looks fine
and head over to the diet forum post up your entire diet and see what those guys say

if you have time tho nsa i would still like to heard your opinion on why M1T isnt great for cutting, chem structure other properties im not aware of?

[JROKK26]

Cool, good looking out Manpretty and nsa. Can't wait to get started!!!!

[UpstateTank]

GODDAMMIT all you bastards and yer up n coming cycles

im jealous

[JROKK26]

I think I'll start on monday. First timer on the SD hope it's everything it's cracked up to be..... really looking forward to it. I usually keep a log in a notebook. Thinking about starting one here, all the feedback is great.

[JROKK26]

ThermoLife Liver Longer... Anybody used or heard of this? http://www.discountanabolics.com/p/TL13

You think it's worth adding to/with all supporting supps??

[confusedstar]

Jrokk for your support supplements...is that all one supplement with those ingredients combined or you actually have to buy each of those individually? If its just one supplement with all those ingredients involved...whats the supplement? Seems like alot things to buy.

[JROKK26]

Most of it came from two products:
Anabolic Innovations Cycle Support http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/ai/cycle.html
and Anabolic Xtreme Prefect Cycle http://www.discountanabolics.com/p/AN04
or
Pro Liver http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/prima/liver.html

I went with AX prefect cycle for the additional R[+]-Alpha Lipoic Acid 200mg

Than just added bought extra Hawthorne Berry 550 mg for like $4 and Niacin Flush Free 1000 mg was like $10. I believe both bought from BB.com also

[confusedstar]

So you're going to take the AX prefect cycle, hawethorne berry and Niacin during your cycle? Where did you get the methyl vol?

[JROKK26]

Yes, and Anabolic Innovations Cycle Support all during cycle and through PCT. Methyl Vol is an SD clone....http://www.discountanabolics.com/p/ES11

[GrowingMuscle]

For me SD diminished my appetite, I had to force feed myself. So I would think SD would be good for cutting.

For me if I am going to do steroids I want to utilize them for packing on muscle. Then after cycle and time off do a cutter with eca or something..