Got my results today...

[finny]

Went to an HRT clinic today to discuss my blood test results today. I'm told my test levels are pretty low - he showed it to me on the scale, something around 3.5 but not sure how it was measured. They will mail the test results to me - should have them end of the week or so.

In any case, he gave me a choice between androgel and andriol. I told him that I'm not sure, so he said androgel is good. They are both pretty pricey, so will see how my insurance covers it. I think I should've taken adriol after reading a bit on it. Not sure what dosage he would've prescribed for Andriol, but for androgel, it is 7.5g daily.

I have also talked to him about estrogen, he told me it's not a concern with gel. Then brought up testicular size and whether I should be taking HCG. He told me yes, if I still want to have kids. I told him that I would like to keep this option open, so I got a script for 10,000IU HCG. I talked to him about HCG life and he said that it will be good for 3 months in the fridge. Not to believe all the reports out there. I think I will be getting BW water for reconstitution and 10,000IU vial.

Another thing on gel is that I've read that it converts to DHT much easier than injectable or even pill. There, the concern is hair loss. I expressed my concern, but he told me not to worry as my DHT levels checked out.

From the look of it, it looks like the gel is pretty messy. I'm thinking I should've tried the pills. Eventually, I would like to do injectible.

A bit of background on myself. Just turned 37, the last 6 months or so my sex drive is nonexistant and I'm pretty tired all around. So it seems that HRT is the thing for me.

I want to do cycles around my HRT as well. Not sure of the logistics of it all yet. Do cycle, cruize on HRT, another cycle,etc?

These are the tests that he ordered:

Tot test
Bio test
PSA
Alt
GGT
LH
Estradiol
DHEA
Prolactin
TSH
Fasted Glucose - 4.9mmol/L
Cholesterol - 3.84 mmol/L
Triglycerides - 0.66 mmol/L
HDL Cholestrol - 0.93 mmol/L
LDL Cholestrol - 2.6 mmol/L
Hemaglobin - 151 g/L
Hematrocrit - 0.44 l/l
RBC - 5.03
RBC Indices:
MCV - 87
MCH - 30
MCHC - 343
RDW - 13.3
WBC - 10.9
Platelets - 281
Differential WBC's:
Neutrophils - 7.52
Lymphocytes - 2.07
Monocytes - 1.31
Eosinophils - 0
Basophils - 0

Not sure what all these mean, will have to look them up.

[finny]

I've put an order for androgel today. Was debating all day today whether to try and switch it up to andriol. Did a bit of reading and it seems that andriol is not as stable as gel.

The only thing with gel is other people contact, summer/swimming, mess, etc. It just seems like a headache from a lifestyle perspective. In any case, got it filled at Costco, the cost was $340CAD for 10 bottles. My insurance covers 80% and my wife's should pick up the difference, so no prob there.

The Doc did not seem to think that there will be any estrogen/aromatization problems. Would like to have some scripts for arimidex/nolva. If someone knows of an angle I can use with the doc, I would appreciate it.

Will keep the bottles for now as I've started my cycle already, test en 500mg/wk, and will decide whether to use them as bridge later on.

I'm ready to do this HRT 'for life' as I've realized that my body was going through some changes - low libido, tired/low energy levels.

The plan for now is to do a couple of cycles a year and at some point do a bridge with gel and then switch to injectible. I don't think I want to start bridging right away as your system might get used to test and if won't be as effective come next cycle?

[finny]

Forgot to mention, I will do IGF L3 and mMGF for a bridge. So, a low dosage of gel at 6 pumps/day might be a nice addition in there.

[n2ojones]

Hey Finny,

I'm surprised you're not getting much response as this forum is filled with some real helpful, savvy posters. Wish I was one of them, but I am but a novice. I can however tell you that the gel is not really all that messy...at least not in my experience. I am not afraid of needles at all...and if I had my choice and all things were equal (but they're not) I'd consider the gel less hassle than the pins.

BTW, I am no longer looking for 22" arms and a bench of 500. I just wanted to add 10-15 lbs of muscle and I think the topical test, in my experience, will do the trick. YMMV. best to ya'.

[finny]

Thanks n2ojones. Yeah, it's a hit and miss with responses on here sometimes.

With the shots, I'm lucky as my wife is doing them. This is my first cycle and it was the hardest to bring it up, but once I started talking about sex drive, aging, she seemed to understand - she could relate to some of it (we have two small kids). I have also mentioned that I went to men's clinic and my test levels are low and shots/gel are there to bring it back up and make me feel better. She might not see the big picture, but that's enough.

I hear you on the goals, I feel exactly the same. Once you hit your mid-thirties, things change - your body changes. I'm doing it for myself and would like to gain some muscle and tone up a bit. So, yes, I don't care how much I bench. Also, I'm doing it for anti-aging benefits as well. Would like to try GH at some point as well as I think it is great for those benefits - 3-4IU/day.

[n2ojones]

LOL...you and I took the same angle with our wives. I felt it best to tell her as I knew she'd find out sooner or later. She was like "but honey...our sex life is great and you look 30...you don't need this stuff". I told her..."great for you sweetheart, but I am on the verge of cardiac arrest!!!" She didn't want any of that and since she's not seeing "ANY NEEDLES" she's now OK with the whole thing.

BTW, she's 23.....I'm 47, with the test, she can't keep up.

Good luck to ya' bro.

[MuscleScience]

BTW, she's 23.....I'm 47, with the test, she can't keep up.

Lucky Bastard, LOL

[finny]

BTW, she's 23.....I'm 47, with the test, she can't keep up.

Nice.

I just got an idea. I'm picking up my gel today. Right now I'm doing my first cycle and I will be at 3 weeks on Sunday. I'm doing 500mg/wk, twice a wk shot. I frontloaded the first shot with 500mg - not sure if it will help speed things up. What if I start the get now and do it for 2-3 weeks? Would there be any benefit as far as kickstarting things?

Thanks.

[finny]

Just to let Canadian counterparts know, HCG 10,000IU with 10ml of BW costs $75CAD. My insurance didn't cover it and I doubt my wife's will. Oh well, pretty cheap anyway...

Got a check my mailbox this morning to see if my blood test results came in.

[Tapout]

hey finny
been on testim 10 days,its a gel like andro,and see a big difference
I'm 39 and doc put me on it as my total test was 239 --supposed to be 241-821 area. my free test was 5.22 and its supposed to be 5-21 so low there too.
as far as hrt I am learning there is a big difference--I have done cycles on and off for 18 years and after pct and 7 months test levels would not come up. I also was weak,didnt want to train,no desire and lots of joint pains--now after 10 days training again,desire for wife is back(just explain to them about hormones we are supposed to understand certain times of the month so they need to understand when our test level is low--thank goodness my wife does--we cant help it like they cant)and joint pains are better
test is being proven to help with joint pains
as far as the gel--kind of a pain not as easy as shots--what I am going to do is after 6 weeks and doc wants to retest me while on gel--I am going to do cyp and save up gel--after cyp done use gel 2 times per day instead of one as I think it would work better--although I do have to say I am noting muscle fullness coming back while on gel and am impressed with it

[Tapout]

one more thing hrt wont work as good as a cycle but its alot better than nothing--espically since I pay $25. per month for it with insurance--its cheaper than creatine and no2 and works alot better

[finny]

Tapout, thanks for chiming in and sharing some of your experience. I hear you on a lot of points.

I have ten pumps sitting in a closet. I will be saving them for now as I'm doing a cycle of test e right now. I have another appointment with the doc in two months but now blood tests. I guess he wants to see my reaction to the gel and the like. One thing I'm a bit hesitant about the gel is the transfer to the kids and possibly the wife. My two boys are still sharing our king size bed with my wife and I. But I think if I apply it in the morning, by early evening there should be no chance of transfer?

If I understand it correctly, if one is on HRT for life as that is the way I'm leaning right now, then there is no need for PCT? I will do a cycle, always including test, then bridge with androgel, IGF,pMGF. No need to do any PCT in this case?

If someone could confirm this for me as far as PCT I would really appreciate it. The only thing I would still want to run nolva@10mg ED and arimidex @ 0.25mg ED to keep bloat and other sides down during cycle. Now I'm thinking that some sort of PCT might be required to adjust for test doses/levels - during cycle pretty high vs. much lower levels during the bridge. Any thoughts of how this might look like?

Thanks.

[AnabolicBoy1981]

finny if your on HRT, there is no such thing as POST CYCLE therapy, cuz there is no bringing back your own testosterone.
The use of ancillary gear during a cycle to prevent sides doest really have a nickname, but that is what you meant.
Anyway, id pic adex at .5 mg. ed. Adex most likely will keep you leaner than Nolva.

[therecanonlybe1]

like my doc..says i don't worry about labs..just how you feel...mmm wonder how i feel next time...

[frenchy]

finny one question I have for you is this. Did your body naturally stop producing test or is this because of steroid use. Im 36 yrs old and find I have the same symptoms that you described to a certain extent. Recently I started injecting sustanon 250 and energy levels increased, sex drive increased and generally actually felt more normal.

[finny]

finny one question I have for you is this. Did your body naturally stop producing test or is this because of steroid use. Im 36 yrs old and find I have the same symptoms that you described to a certain extent. Recently I started injecting sustanon 250 and energy levels increased, sex drive increased and generally actually felt more normal.

I've never done AAS or any other drugs before. Just found out that in the last six months my sex drive has taken a dive. Energy levels were way down also. Just overall feeling made me feel like I was 60 years old.

At the same time I started reading about AAS and I have stumbled onto HRT and read a bit about it, symptoms and the like. Then decided to get tested two weeks before I started my first cycle.

Long-term plan, do AAS cycles, bridge with androgel and later with injectible. Still have to convince my doctor to switch me to injectibles. During the bridge, I will do IGF/pMGF for two cycles. After that, I'll switch to GH for the bridge on top of test. I'll be running test year round, at different doses, so I'm not interested in recovering my own levels - that's as a result of my diagnosis.

Since starting my cycle, my sex drive has improved 100%. Every morning I get a boner now, as before maybe once every few weeks or so. Initially into the cycle, I felt tired/sleepy a lot but I think it's improving now at around week 4.

So, depending on your AAS history, you might've messed up your system or it's down naturally. In either case, finish your cycle, do proper PCT, wait few more weeks and seek an HRT clinic to get tested.

[Tapout]

finny thats a great plan you have
also frenchy it could be cause of past aas or from heridity as my bro and dad have low test the same as me(of course I have have done alot of aas through the years)

[frenchy]

This was my first cycle and it was only sust 250 e3d so nothing major.

Gained 10 pounds, lost my beer belly a bit and my upper body got bigger... the biggest change was in my strenght wow. I can bench press 80 pounds more then before...

[finny]

Just a little update. I have switched to androil. I just wasn't comfortable with androgel and being around my kids. Other than that, androgel was perfect; easy to apply, no mess at all. Still have quiet a few pumps left - not sure what I'm going to do with them, but I might use them in winter.

In any case, I'm on androil 4x40mg/day - my doc told me to do 4 in the morning with 1 1/2 of olive oil. After reading and checking active life, I decided to split the dosage into 2x2. In the morning, I take about 30g of whey mixed with water and 1 tbspn of olive oil and in the afternoon same thing, but with flax oil.

Have been on it almost a month. I think Androgel was better - more even distribution.

It seems that my sex drive is not as good as before as well. Always improves the morning after HCG shot. I will increase the dosage, but we are still trying to get pregnant, so will keep it at that for now.

Spoke to the doc about injections. He was against it and told me that my test levels will be up and down. Asked him about frequency on injections, and he told me every 3 or 4 weeks - no surprise there. I suggested 1x wk and his response was that it was too many injection. Left it at that.

[lacey231]

Just a little update. I have switched to androil. I just wasn't comfortable with androgel and being around my kids. Other than that, androgel was perfect; easy to apply, no mess at all. Still have quiet a few pumps left - not sure what I'm going to do with them, but I might use them in winter.

In any case, I'm on androil 4x40mg/day - my doc told me to do 4 in the morning with 1 1/2 of olive oil. After reading and checking active life, I decided to split the dosage into 2x2. In the morning, I take about 30g of whey mixed with water and 1 tbspn of olive oil and in the afternoon same thing, but with flax oil.

Have been on it almost a month. I think Androgel was better - more even distribution.

It seems that my sex drive is not as good as before as well. Always improves the morning after HCG shot. I will increase the dosage, but we are still trying to get pregnant, so will keep it at that for now.

Spoke to the doc about injections. He was against it and told me that my test levels will be up and down. Asked him about frequency on injections, and he told me every 3 or 4 weeks - no surprise there. I suggested 1x wk and his response was that it was too many injection. Left it at that.

I don't quite understand why doctors don't like to inject once a week. You wouldn't take androgel 1x a week, or an SSRI 1x a week so why would you take test once every 3-4 weeks? Doesn't make sense.