! HELP ! beginner advice

[Robbie21]

6'1" 181 pounds 8% body fat
*been lifting approx. 5 hours per week for 3 years.
I've built from 165 or so to 181 in that time frame, and I'm just not seeing any steady gains anymore. I've even cut cardio out of my exercise all together. I am eating about 3700 calories per day, 50/30/20 with my nutrients. My metabolism is high, and I have been stuck for a while.

I've been reading all over these forums so much my eyes are bleeding. I'm real close to starting on steroids. From what I've read and put together for myself, I'm looking to start on 50mg Anadrol (oral), 25mg Proviron (oral), and 20mg Nolvadex (oral)

ANY IDEAS AT ALL ON THIS WOULD HELP. Is it a safe starting setup, and when is best to take the pills. I'm just sticking to orals since they are easier to clean the body of.

From what I've pieced together in hours of research: this is a safe combination to gain mass and limit side effects.

HELP THANKS

[ebjack]

You can't ask for sources in the open forum...You need 100 posts and 45 days of activity before getting a source check from a willing vet.

[THE PUMP]

dont recomend oral cycles

bump

[MartyMcFly]

What the hell is up with everyone asking for sources today?

P.S. You need to read more your cycle idea is s h i t

[wishmasterATM]

test test test test

[BG]

Edit you post asking for sources, read the rules you've been warned.

[Robbie21]

bump

[armbar83]

6'1" 181 pounds 8% body fat
*been lifting approx. 5 hours per week for 3 years.
I've built from 165 or so to 181 in that time frame, and I'm just not seeing any steady gains anymore. I've even cut cardio out of my exercise all together. I am eating about 3700 calories per day, 50/30/20 with my nutrients. My metabolism is high, and I have been stuck for a while.

I've been reading all over these forums so much my eyes are bleeding. I'm real close to starting on steroids. From what I've read and put together for myself, I'm looking to start on 50mg Anadrol (oral), 25mg Proviron (oral), and 20mg Nolvadex (oral)

ANY IDEAS AT ALL ON THIS WOULD HELP. Is it a safe starting setup, and when is best to take the pills. I'm just sticking to orals since they are easier to clean the body of.

From what I've pieced together in hours of research: this is a safe combination to gain mass and limit side effects.

HELP THANKS

not flamming, but for someone with eyes bleeding from research, you dont seem like you get the gist of this place.

no test, no cycle

also, anadrol and proviron?

try a test cyp or enanthate cycle for 10-12 weeks...

[ACE5HIGH]

6'1" 181 pounds 8% body fat
*been lifting approx. 5 hours per week for 3 years.
I've built from 165 or so to 181 in that time frame, and I'm just not seeing any steady gains anymore. I've even cut cardio out of my exercise all together. I am eating about 3700 calories per day, 50/30/20 with my nutrients. My metabolism is high, and I have been stuck for a while.

I've been reading all over these forums so much my eyes are bleeding. I'm real close to starting on steroids. From what I've read and put together for myself, I'm looking to start on 50mg Anadrol (oral), 25mg Proviron (oral), and 20mg Nolvadex (oral)

ANY IDEAS AT ALL ON THIS WOULD HELP. Is it a safe starting setup, and when is best to take the pills. I'm just sticking to orals since they are easier to clean the body of.

From what I've pieced together in hours of research: this is a safe combination to gain mass and limit side effects.

HELP THANKS

How old are you man? also at 6'1 181 you should not be done growing natty. Everyone hits plateaus man dont be discouraged its just time for you to take it to a new level of training, dedication, and eating eating eating...

You gotta look at it like this, If you were makin steady gains at 165lbs by eating 3500-3700 cals a day then plateau at 181 then your eating enough for a 181 lb guy, if you wana be 190+ then you need to eat like a 190lb + guy, more more more.

[Robbie21]

23, done growing. Naturally thin.... ectomorph body type. I know alot about nutrition, i tried for a few weeks to plow as much as possible. Ate about 4500 calories per day, still didnt gain any good weight.

I've exhausted my resources and my body. I'm ready to give oral steroids a try. ANY RECOMENDATIONS (just oral steroids)

[kaberle_15]

23, done growing. Naturally thin.... ectomorph body type. I know alot about nutrition, i tried for a few weeks to plow as much as possible. Ate about 4500 calories per day, still didnt gain any good weight.

I've exhausted my resources and my body. I'm ready to give oral steroids a try. ANY RECOMENDATIONS (just oral steroids)

Yea, dont do it man

[SMAN12b]

6'1" adn ONLY 181lbs?????

you do NOT need steroids, you need to learn how to eat properly to grow, steroids will not magically put on mass for you

[KAEW44]

Try the new Hybrid-Anabolics exlusively sold by me! They are twice the results with none of the side effects!! The only reason we dont show before and after pics of people who have tried them is because my company cannot handle the flood of customers it will bring, we can only produce this new quality product in small amounts because Russian Chmpion Fedor Emelianenko will only let us filter so much of his blood to obtain them!!

[Robbie21]

thanks for the help.... err... or not. I'm not looking for magic, I lift about an hour and 20 mintes 4 days per week. oral steroids arent gonna help me gain some mass???

6'1" adn ONLY 181lbs?????

you do NOT need steroids, you need to learn how to eat properly to grow, steroids will not magically put on mass for you

[beuleux]

Bud you need to read more. If youre choosing orals because you think theyre less harmfull and easier to clean the body of then you are mistaken, Androl for example is very liver toxic and has a detection time of up to 8 weeks where as some far superior injectables (gains wise) will be out of your body in 2-3 weeks and are nowhere near as liver toxic.

[Robbie21]

isnt that the point of taking Proviron and Nolvadex ?

[armbar83]

isnt that the point of taking Proviron and Nolvadex ?

no they dont protect your liver. nothing does really, thats why orals aren't recommended and never stacked. if people sound resistant its because people come on here constantly saying some of the same things youve said and show an obvious lack of knowledge and are not ready. these guys know what there talking about, especially mods, vets, and monitors. please dont blow it off, they aren't trying to be badasses, they are trying to help you from making a mistake...

the base of every cycle is injectable so if you cant inject you shouldnt be considering gear...

[beuleux]

No, there is nothing that will protect your liver or cleanse your body faster. Nolvadex is an anti-e and proviron is another oral steroid albeit a lot less toxic than Androl. You can do an oral cycle relatively safe but personaly I steer clear of orals because of the liver issues, I have done dbol only in the past and Ive heard var only is quite safe also but the cycles are shorter and the gains are less. There was a long protracted thread quite recently on oral only cycles you might want to dig it up and read it. Most people will advise against oral only and with good reason. But if youve decided thats the way you want to go then I wish you luck and let us know how you get on.

[Maldorf]

I would tell you not to use anadrol for your first cycle, its not a beginner AAS. If your set on doing this cycle, use dbol. In my opinion if youre not commited enough to use injectables then you shouldnt be using AAS at all. Like everyone here said, orals are MUCH harder on your liver than injectables. I also think you need to do a lot more research before you jump in.

[Pooks]

DOOD U"R EATING PEANUTS!!

U're not growing anymore cause u're eating 3700 calories a day, that helped u get to 181lbs

but to get up to 200 u're gonna have to start eating 5,000 - 6,000 a day.

I eat 3,000 calories by noon time. Im just over 200lbs and cut... 5,000-6,000 7,000+ somtimes is my usual day. Its not hard either, u get used to it, u down it down face.

Cereal in the morning 200calories. GO WORK OUT.. .. a couple of hotpockets, or mcdonalds, (i know its crap) u're at 1,000.. Weight gainer type protein shake.. 900... 1900... Couple of pieces of chicken breast, n some fries.. 600.. 2500.. some other crap u find around.. 3000... this is all between 7am and noon time!
and u eat that much + a little more in a whole day. Than you say your metabolism is fast! lol.

[Pooks]

ALSO THROW IN SOME CREATINE, BCAA's , + a great heavy diet, and see if u go places .. before trying to do steroids..

Well the one thing u got goign for you, is you know how to work out, so steroids should not mess u up to much if u do it right..
but still u need to get more used to a heavy diet before u should do any, imo

[Amateur BB111]

I was once 165 at 5'10... only about two months ago actually... and i was stuck at this weight because of my diet... i now wake up eat a huge bowl of oatmeal and 60 grams of whey protein and a banana... pre-workout more oatmeal and 10 egg whites, after workout 1 mass gainer shake and 2 chicken breasts and a sweet potatoe or big serving of brown rice, 3 hours later a big slab of salmon or sirloin about 16 oz or more and a sweet potatoe... 3 hours later mass gainer shake and some fruit and yogurt... before bed 60 grams whey protein with 3 cups skim milk... and no lie bro i went from 165 to 180 at 5'10 in about 2 months... DIET IS KEY!!! EAT LIKE A HORSE... MORE AND MORE FOOD... keep you diet clean in order to make lean gains... i'm still steroid free untill i hit 200 lbs as advised by this forum...
thanx again guys...

[armbar83]

I was once 165 at 5'10... only about two months ago actually... and i was stuck at this weight because of my diet... i now wake up eat a huge bowl of oatmeal and 60 grams of whey protein and a banana... pre-workout more oatmeal and 10 egg whites, after workout 1 mass gainer shake and 2 chicken breasts and a sweet potatoe or big serving of brown rice, 3 hours later a big slab of salmon or sirloin about 16 oz or more and a sweet potatoe... 3 hours later mass gainer shake and some fruit and yogurt... before bed 60 grams whey protein with 3 cups skim milk... and no lie bro i went from 165 to 180 at 5'10 in about 2 months... DIET IS KEY!!! EAT LIKE A HORSE... MORE AND MORE FOOD... keep you diet clean in order to make lean gains... i'm still steroid free untill i hit 200 lbs as advised by this forum...
thanx again guys...

there you go, thats it

[Robbie21]

yeh. Well right now I'm eating alot of healthy (nutrient dense) foods. Not tryin to eat fast food and shit. For a while I was plowing 4500 a day, over about 2 weeks. Just felt too full and couldnt workout as hard. I'm very cut, and strong for my size. I'm not a beanpole, but obviously dont have the mass I'd like. my bench press max is 225... have low % body fat. Do lots of ab and core training. Generally work most sets to failure 6-10 reps, depending on what exercise it is, with lots of weight. Standard stuff to promote hypertrophy.

Have a good friend I lift with who has an exercise physiology degree... so we workout the right way... just he makes steady gains and I havent grown in a year.

WHAT WOULD BE A GOOD LOW STRENGTH ORAL STEROID TO START WITH... on say a 6 week cycle?

[beuleux]

If youre hell bent on it then var would be the best choice. But your physiologist friend should know that... or is this going to be your little secret lol.

[armbar83]

yeh. Well right now I'm eating alot of healthy (nutrient dense) foods. Not tryin to eat fast food and shit. For a while I was plowing 4500 a day, over about 2 weeks. Just felt too full and couldnt workout as hard. I'm very cut, and strong for my size. I'm not a beanpole, but obviously dont have the mass I'd like. my bench press max is 225... have low % body fat. Do lots of ab and core training. Generally work most sets to failure 6-10 reps, depending on what exercise it is, with lots of weight. Standard stuff to promote hypertrophy.

Have a good friend I lift with who has an exercise physiology degree... so we workout the right way... just he makes steady gains and I havent grown in a year.
WHAT WOULD BE A GOOD LOW STRENGTH ORAL STEROID TO START WITH... on say a 6 week cycle?

probably because hes had to have human nutrition and possibly biochem for his degree. you should sit down with him and compare your diets. i bet yours isnt like his

[UberSteroids]

Alright well, Eating is only one part of it... so I say if You ate lots calories of good foods and this is not working well, obviously the DIET is proabably not the issue.. You need to change Your workout split, lifting techniques, amounts of weights Your lifting etc.

As far as all oral cycle goes, I would not do it, waste of time, money and Your health. If You want to do steroids, do it for REAL and get max out of it, might as well because all this stuff is pretty rough for Your body.

I am assuming You're just scared to death of injections ? What would be the other reason to do orals only ?

[UberSteroids]

If youre hell bent on it then var would be the best choice. But your physiologist friend should know that... or is this going to be your little secret lol.

[Robbie21]

I'm pretty tired of the threads of people tellin me I dont eat right and workout right. Its not my first time in the gym. Been in tehre for years. People have different body styles. most people are Mesomorph... which is a combination of size and muscle. I'm an Ectomorph... charactarized by long lean muscle. *also dont have as much fast twitch muscle fiber... I have more slow twitch... which explains why I can run distances without any problems without any training and most people cant do that. And I have a six pack even without running or training. However, this is also a major problem tryin to put on size.

I'm not too scared of using injection steroids... but alot of stuff I've read on these forums say orals can be out of your system in a week... but injections up to 8 weeks.

I'm 23 btw, and goign to start using. Putting in 5 hours a week of hard lifting for a year and not seeing ANYTHING.. COME ON. WHAT WOULD YOU GUYS DO? so what is my best start

[Haro3]

I'm pretty tired of the threads of people tellin me I dont eat right and workout right. Its not my first time in the gym. Been in tehre for years. People have different body styles. most people are Mesomorph... which is a combination of size and muscle. I'm an Ectomorph... charactarized by long lean muscle. *also dont have as much fast twitch muscle fiber... I have more slow twitch... which explains why I can run distances without any problems without any training and most people cant do that. And I have a six pack even without running or training. However, this is also a major problem tryin to put on size.

I'm not too scared of using injection steroids... but alot of stuff I've read on these forums say orals can be out of your system in a week... but injections up to 8 weeks.

I'm 23 btw, and goign to start using. Putting in 5 hours a week of hard lifting for a year and not seeing ANYTHING.. COME ON. WHAT WOULD YOU GUYS DO? so what is my best start

u say your sick of people sayin u need to learn to eat...butttt u want to make gains..ur missing the problem. the problem isnt cuz ur an ecto morph dude, ectos can still be big but whats the difference between an ecto and meso....ecto = higher metabolic rate which = more food consumed to gain weight SO! basically you need to eat more to be able to grow if ur not growing at 3700 cals and ur maintaining bodyfat composition then you've obviously found ur maintenance level of calories so now build from there. im not gonna tell u not to use gear cuz plenty of people start before everyone claims they "should" i believe u can start when you're training and diet are 100% on, you know what it takes to grow diet wise and how to adjust for ur goals. you cant build muscle without food even with steroids if you dont have the nutrients to physically build the muscle the steroids have nothing to aid in......steroids increase protein synthesis which is the absorption of protein, basically makes ur body more efficient and uses the nutrients to the fullest extent possible. BUT if you arent giving ur body enough food/protein/calories the steroids have nothing to shuttle and increase absorption of.....now do you see why everyone says diet is key? im just saying its alot cheaper to fix ur diet and learn the right way then jump straight into using gear and have the yo yo effect of ur body weight up and down cuz u dont know how to eat to maintain the mass u have. its depressing to lose ur gains and thats why experience with ur diet is needed. how bout you write out ur diet and post it up just for some criticism..it always helps to have someone else look it over....hope this helps some..

[abmyers]

I'm pretty tired of the threads of people tellin me I dont eat right and workout right. Its not my first time in the gym. Been in tehre for years. People have different body styles. most people are Mesomorph... which is a combination of size and muscle. I'm an Ectomorph... charactarized by long lean muscle. *also dont have as much fast twitch muscle fiber... I have more slow twitch... which explains why I can run distances without any problems without any training and most people cant do that. And I have a six pack even without running or training. However, this is also a major problem tryin to put on size.

I'm not too scared of using injection steroids... but alot of stuff I've read on these forums say orals can be out of your system in a week... but injections up to 8 weeks.

I'm 23 btw, and goign to start using. Putting in 5 hours a week of hard lifting for a year and not seeing ANYTHING.. COME ON. WHAT WOULD YOU GUYS DO? so what is my best start

If you think you are ready, then do it. Many will tell you you haven't hit your natural limits yet bla bla bla...most don't, I didn't, most of them likely didn't either. Make up your mind that you want to start, and then spend the next six months learning everything you can about dieting, how these chemical interact with your body, how to recover, everything. Do this BEFORE you even think about buying them. I guarantee, your perception, and understanding will be much improved, and results better if you understand the game a little more.

[Haro3]

If you think you are ready, then do it. Many will tell you you haven't hit your natural limits yet bla bla bla...most don't, I didn't, most of them likely didn't either. Make up your mind that you want to start, and then spend the next six months learning everything you can about dieting, how these chemical interact with your body, how to recover, everything. Do this BEFORE you even think about buying them. I guarantee, your perception, and understanding will be much improved, and results better if you understand the game a little more.

i agree with this..

[armbar83]

I'm pretty tired of the threads of people tellin me I dont eat right and workout right. Its not my first time in the gym. Been in tehre for years. People have different body styles. most people are Mesomorph... which is a combination of size and muscle. I'm an Ectomorph... charactarized by long lean muscle. *also dont have as much fast twitch muscle fiber... I have more slow twitch... which explains why I can run distances without any problems without any training and most people cant do that. And I have a six pack even without running or training. However, this is also a major problem tryin to put on size.

I'm not too scared of using injection steroids... but alot of stuff I've read on these forums say orals can be out of your system in a week... but injections up to 8 weeks.

I'm 23 btw, and goign to start using. Putting in 5 hours a week of hard lifting for a year and not seeing ANYTHING.. COME ON. WHAT WOULD YOU GUYS DO? so what is my best start

i dont feel like i can deal with this today...

im sorry if your pretty tired that people arnt telling you what you want to hear. thats not there job. if you come on here and ASK for help, you are asking for their educated opinion. what makes more sense, everyone on here who has responded to you is unhelpful and talking about diet when you want to know about gear....or...these people recognize your situation and have encountered it countless times before. im not flamming im just kind of offended because people have taken there time to help inform you and you arent getting it, but rather repeating the same question...

maybe if multiple threads are repeating the same advice its true?? if it doesnt matter what people think, why even ask for help if your right anyway?
thanks for the lesson on body types but if your lean its because of how you eat and if you have little fast twitch fibers its because you havent utilized them by training the right way for long enough...


your right
do your oral only stack, dont change your diet or trainning, and lose your gains (if any besides dbol bloat) within two months.

[MartyMcFly]

i dont feel like i can deal with this today...

im sorry if your pretty tired that people arnt telling you what you want to hear. thats not there job. if you come on here and ASK for help, you are asking for their educated opinion. what makes more sense, everyone on here who has responded to you is unhelpful and talking about diet when you want to know about gear....or...these people recognize your situation and have encountered it countless times before. im not flamming im just kind of offended because people have taken there time to help inform you and you arent getting it, but rather repeating the same question...

maybe if multiple threads are repeating the same advice its true?? if it doesnt matter what people think, why even ask for help if your right anyway?
thanks for the lesson on body types but if your lean its because of how you eat and if you have little fast twitch fibers its because you havent utilized them by training the right way for long enough...


your right
do your oral only stack, dont change your diet or trainning, and lose your gains (if any besides dbol bloat) within two months.

Werd

[king6]

I'm not too scared of using injection steroids... but alot of stuff I've read on these forums say orals can be out of your system in a week... but injections up to 8 weeks.

Wow, I would like to know what oral is detectable for only a week. The shortest detectable time for an oral is Var which is detectable for up to 3 weeks. Dbol 6-8 weeks. And Drol is detectable up to 2 months. If you are worried about it then run steroid cleanse. Cleans your system in 5 days.

[abmyers]

BTW.

A cycle without a great diet is like driving a Formula 1 car on 87 octane.

[Pooks]

Yup like someone mentioned before, u're eating your maintance amount right now.. U have to eat more to gain weight..

Ok lets say u do the cycle.. u gain 20lbs on the cycle..
AWESOME.. u're 200lbs u're big u're ripped ok..
GREAT

but now what?
U're off the cycle, u're still eating 3700 calories a day, which is good for 181lbs..
guess what in 3 months after your cycle u're gonna be 181 again..
so why did u even do the cycle?
just to get acne, and some hairloss, and still be 181??
EAT MORE AND GROW..

[ted666]

alot of carbs and protein.more intense workouots like 6-9 reps per set followed with at the end of your 9th rep 1 or 2 cheats & negs. plenty of recup time . they will grow . i try and rest aminimum of 1 max b etween reps.

[gym lord]

for all the reading you've done ... you might want to check over in the steroid resources section ... there's some examples of beginner cycles drawn up by anthony roberts over there with explanations of why they would be good to use ... the first one he mentions is exactly what one gent has already told you in this thread: test test test ... and none of them look like your proposed cycle ... he lists d-bol instead of drol for a beginner oral, as another gent has mentioned to you in this thread ...

i dont really have anything against you going on a cycle now in this stage of your development, because as another gent has mentioned, once somebody becomes bound & determined to use AAS, not much you can say to hold em back, i didnt use until i was 28, but only because i didnt have access to AAS until then ... but i would like to see you do it right if choose to start now ... i think you should start with test, since it is the base of many cycle possibilities, and you need to learn what it's like on that alone, so later you can tell the difference in effect when you combine it with other compounds ... your first three or four cycles should be a huge learning experience ... where you learn exactly what different compounds effect you in what way ...

all the people in this thread are really trying to help you, it feels a little rough because you really didnt put together a very good cycle at all, for a novice or anybody ... but hang tough and learn, be willing to adjust ... and what's the worry about detection times, or did i miss that? ... if it's for something that's all that big of a deal, i wouldnt bother doing a cycle right now ... i'd hate for my very 1st cycle to be a big paranoid experience about being detected ... and i sure wouldnt want that kind of paranoia driving me into doing a crappy cycle

[lukewhipps]

hi can anyone help me? im 17 and 164lbs and ive just finished a low dose course ov anavar.....but now i wnt to bump it up and my source has told me low doses should be fine on sus and deca? like....deca, 10 days l8a sus, 10 days l8a deca, etc etc for 8 weeks, plus week 1 20mg dbol week 2 30mg week 3 40mg week 4 50mg week 50mg then gradually tapering off...ne advice on this?
luke