fat face

[whiteowl]

so after four months on HRT, of the 12 pounds i have put on at least 3 of it seems to be in my face.....my eyes look like Listons after the first Ali bout (Clay for those who go back far enough)....

i met with my endo....his response was "that is why some men stop taking it"....like i want to spend another year on the couch without being able to think of anything better to do.....

ideas?

[Amorphic]

what is the amount of test you are taking per week?

[lacey231]

What does your estradiol looks like? high estrogen, bloating?

[whiteowl]

test is 150 per week....estridiol came back in the "lower end of normal range" according to endo.....it was one of the first thing he checked before we got serious on test injections....

thanks

[zaggahamma]

test is 150 per week....estridiol came back in the "lower end of normal range" according to endo.....it was one of the first thing he checked before we got serious on test injections....

thanks

you answered your own question when you said BEFORE we got serious about test injections....
your estradiol was low end BEFORE the injections..
now, four months test at 150 mg per week you have a fat face? sounds like your estro went up

[whiteowl]

hey JPK

just had another round of bloodtests about two weeks ago...will call Monday and ask about estradiol level....i asked endo point blank about my eyes...his response was that was why "some guys just stopped taking it"....thanks for the heads up

[Pooks]

as much as I hate Tren, it does lower estrogen levels, and will give a hard look..

but its temporary one u stop using Tren.. and because of its toxicity you definitely would want too.. u'll balloon up again..

but if you play with the dose, maybe u could go on some extremely low dose tren regiment, that will maybe give u the results u want..
(never tried or done it myself)

other tips.. aside from estrogen blockers such as clomid, letro, and nolva would be your diet..

look into diets that keep water retention down.

The positives of water retention are longer harder workouts.

[whiteowl]

pooks....i was looking at ordering letro through the site....then it got to my birthday and physical address and i balked....thanks for the info ....certainly gives me several more options to look into...the letro thread here says it knocks the hell out of estrogen....good leads...thanks m8

[Pooks]

I took letro once and I did not like its sexual dysfunction side-effect haha..

[whiteowl]

the word on letro is if one is good two is going to be really bad....at least that is the what i have got out of my reading so far......clomid seems to get a lot of ink so i'll study up on that....thanks....at 55 i am already closer to the end than the beginning so i don't want to do anything that might get jr and the boys to take a night off....

[zaggahamma]

the word on letro is if one is good two is going to be really bad....at least that is the what i have got out of my reading so far......clomid seems to get a lot of ink so i'll study up on that....thanks....at 55 i am already closer to the end than the beginning so i don't want to do anything that might get jr and the boys to take a night off....

funny stuff owl....and remember 55 aint close to the end anymore

[lacey231]

Try Arimidex before going to a suicide inhibitor like letro, or a serm like clomid.

You don't want to wipe out your estrogen completly, and get rid of sex drive. Just bring it back to normal. Arimidex lowers estrogen but doesnt wipe it out like letro, so should give more play to find the right dose.

[fbcoach]

Whiteowl....here are some causes of the full/fat face:

-high E2
-low E2
-high cortisol
-low cortisol
-too much thyroid
-too low thyroid
-too many carbs
-not enough water
-too much water at one time
-too much sodium
-not enough sodium
-overeating
-undereating

The biggest cause is STRESS. The idea is find out what is causing the stress.

As you can tell, it is basically everything in balance. The same things that cause high aldosterone levels can also alleviate high aldosterone levels. When I first started HRT I had the same problem. Now my face is thin once I learned how to control it.

[fbcoach]

One more thing....both letro and arimidex are VERY strong and potent. Start off slow..otherwise both can cause water retention by lowering E2 too much, then lowering aldosterone levels, then your body fights to raise them. Remember, in the body, for evry action there is a re-action!

[whiteowl]

fb coach.... i retired a year ago so the stress level is fairly low....we are still eating/drinking the same....same wonderful mate who still does all the cooking (her favorited pasttime)....not exactly set in our ways but not so much deviating from our routines.....the main things that have changed are: 1) injections started; 2) energy returned; 3) interest resumed; 4) activities increased; ....will note the water intake.....note the warnings....having experienced the adverse reactions to arthritis meds so hear hear to re-actions.....am extremely nervous about anything that may have a different set of reactions.....if one reads the quick down and dirty everything is OK....but without members warnings from their experiences we would all be doomed to live the same mistakes.....suggestions and advice are appreciated and well received....will continue to review before any action is taken....

[fbcoach]

Hey Whiteowl,
Remember, it doesn't matter whether it is good stress or bad stress. It still registers as stress in the body. I'm not talking just about emotional stress. I'm talking about hormonal stress (increasing adrenal hormones). Anyway, GOOD LUCK in dealing with your situation. I will relate as much as my experience as I can if it will help.

[whiteowl]

copy Coach....the year down was stressful on my whole system....whole life....and then while they fidgeted with dosage i am sure that didn't help.....so the gal in the health food store gave me a supplement called Butchers Broom....for water retention....my concern was juggling dosages of letro, arimidex to try and get it right....per JPK i called the endo to find out estrogen counts on most recent blood test....
guess the real key is to find the level of test that my body ran on for 40 yrs....
but i admit i totally missed the stress point....when i read your words i just thought "no shit"...how did i miss that??.....

[fbcoach]

Yeah bro....increasing and decreasing dosages is a major stress to your endocrine system. This affects the testosterone/E2 ratio and increases aldosterone (water retaining hormone). Keep things as consistent as possible. I take 2 shots of 60mgs testosterone cypionate weekly on Mondays and Thursdays. I also take .3mgs arimidex on Mondays and Thursdays. If I can think of anything else that may help I will post again.

[whiteowl]

thanks coach....am also doing 80-80...friday morning and Monday afternoon....will definitely try the arimidex....thinking .25 ...i weigh 208 now (up from 197 when i started test)....sound close to the right dosage?

[AnabolicBoy1981]

Try Arimidex before going to a suicide inhibitor like letro, or a serm like clomid.

You don't want to wipe out your estrogen completly, and get rid of sex drive. Just bring it back to normal. Arimidex lowers estrogen but doesnt wipe it out like letro, so should give more play to find the right dose.

letros not a suicied inhibitor, aromasin is.

Nonetheless. The stuff knocks out my sex drive everytime, arimidex doest touch it though. Adex all the way IMO.

[Kale]

Try Arimidex before going to a suicide inhibitor like letro, or a serm like clomid.

You don't want to wipe out your estrogen completly, and get rid of sex drive. Just bring it back to normal. Arimidex lowers estrogen but doesnt wipe it out like letro, so should give more play to find the right dose.

I agree I do 0.25mg Adex EOD and I am on HRT at around 125mg a week. I have no bloat whatsoever and my esradiol is around 50

[whiteowl]

hey Kale and AB81....thanks ...i definitely wanted to make sure that the drive is not slowed down...appreciate everyones input...