Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 40 of 147

Thread: A measure of racism: 15 percent?

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    Carlos_E's Avatar
    Carlos_E is offline National Level Bodybuilder/Hall of Famer/RETIRED
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    17,629

    A measure of racism: 15 percent?

    I was talking the other day to a prominent Republican who asked me what I thought John McCain’s strongest issues would be in the general election.

    Lower taxes and the argument he will be better able to protect America from its enemies, I said.

    Republicans have a pretty good track record with those two.

    The Republican shook his head. “You’re missing the most important one,” he said. “Race. McCain runs against Barack Obama and the race vote is worth maybe 15 percent to McCain.”

    The man I was talking to is not a racist; he was just stating what he believes to be a fact: There is a percentage of the American electorate who will simply not vote for a black person no matter what his qualities or qualifications.

    How big is that percentage? An AP-Yahoo poll conducted April 2-14 found that “about 8 percent of whites would be uncomfortable voting for a black for president.”

    I don’t know if 8 percent sounds high or low to you, but I was amazed that 8 percent of respondents were willing to admit this to a pollster. And I figure that the true figure is much higher.

    The same poll, by the way, found that 15 percent of voters think Obama is a Muslim. He is, in fact, a Christian. But thinking a person is a Muslim probably does not encourage you to vote for him in America today.

    And consider this little nugget from Monday’s Washington Post, in a story by Kevin Merida and Jose Antonio Vargas datelined Scranton, Pa.:

    “Barack Obama’s campaign opened a downtown office here on March 15, just in time for the annual St. Patrick’s Day parade. It was not a glorious day for Team Obama. Some of the green signs the campaign had trucked in by the thousands were burned during the parade, and campaign volunteers — white volunteers — were greeted with racial slurs.”

    Signs burned? Racial slurs shouted out loud? In this day and age? Maybe that 15 percent estimate is low.

    I am not suggesting for a second that McCain would exploit race in a campaign against Obama. He would not. But the real question is whether the racial issue has to be “exploited” at all. It is pretty powerful just sitting there on its own.

    Ronald Reagan began his presidential campaign in 1980 by giving a speech at a county fair in Philadelphia, Miss., where three civil rights workers — James Chaney, Michael Schwerner and Andrew Goodman — had been murdered in 1964.

    Reagan made no mention of the murders or civil rights in that speech but did say, “I believe in states’ rights.” “States’ rights” was common code in those days for letting states discriminate against black people.

    A few months ago, David Brooks, a conservative columnist for The New York Times, defended Reagan, claiming it is a “distortion” to say Reagan opened his campaign “with an appeal to racism.”

    But Brooks also wrote: “Reagan could have done something wonderful if he’d mentioned civil rights at the fair. He didn’t. And it’s obviously true that race played a role in the GOP’s ascent.”

    In 2005, then-Republican Party chairman Ken Mehlman gave a speech to a National Association for the Advancement of Colored People convention in Milwaukee denouncing the use of race as a wedge issue.
    “Some Republicans gave up on winning the African-American vote, looking the other way or trying to benefit politically from racial polarization,” Mehlman said. “I am here today as the Republican chairman to tell you we were wrong.”

    On Monday, McCain went to Selma, Ala., where on March 7, 1965, more than 500 civil rights marchers were beaten and clubbed by state troopers at the Edmund Pettus Bridge as the rest of America watched on television.

    “They watched and were ashamed of their country,” McCain said. “And they knew that the people who had tried to cross the Edmund Pettus Bridge weren’t a mob; they weren’t a threat; they weren’t revolutionaries. They were people who believed in America — in the promise of America. And they believed in a better America. They were patriots — the best kind of patriots.”

    The Associated Press noted that McCain drew a crowd Monday of about 100 people that “was mostly white, although, as the campaign noted, Selma’s population is 70 percent black.”

    “I am aware the African-American vote has been very small in favor of the Republican Party; I am aware of the challenges, and I am aware of the fact that there will be many people who will not vote for me,” McCain said. “But I’m going to be the president of all the people.”

    Which was an intriguing point: Sure, there are voters who will not vote for Obama under any circumstances, but McCain was saying there are also voters who will not vote for him under any circumstances.

    But which group, if either one, will hold the balance of power in November?
    Muscle Asylum Project Athlete

  2. #2
    Carlos_E's Avatar
    Carlos_E is offline National Level Bodybuilder/Hall of Famer/RETIRED
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    17,629
    The last point is an interesting question.
    Muscle Asylum Project Athlete

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    32,801
    I'm not surprised there are people who wont vote for him because he is black. But i would also bet there are people voting for him just because he is black. I wouldn't even try and guess a percentage on either. But i agree with you Carlos if 8% admitted im sure its really higher

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    US
    Posts
    744
    I would think it could be close to offsetting. If it is BO, I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of voting age blacks voted for him (either because they are democrats or because he is black, or both). I believe a general estimate is 15% of the population is black (I'm not sure what % is voting age, though). If we go with the 8% we probably have as many people voting for BO as we do not voting for BO for the same reasons.

    Now, is it just as wrong to vote for someone purely based on skin color as it is to not vote for them based on the same characteristic?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    32,801
    Quote Originally Posted by Act of God View Post
    I would think it could be close to offsetting. If it is BO, I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of voting age blacks voted for him (either because they are democrats or because he is black, or both). I believe a general estimate is 15% of the population is black (I'm not sure what % is voting age, though). If we go with the 8% we probably have as many people voting for BO as we do not voting for BO for the same reasons.

    Now, is it just as wrong to vote for someone purely based on skin color as it is to not vote for them based on the same characteristic?
    I think both are equally as wrong

  6. #6
    Carlos_E's Avatar
    Carlos_E is offline National Level Bodybuilder/Hall of Famer/RETIRED
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    17,629
    Quote Originally Posted by gixxerboy1 View Post
    I think both are equally as wrong
    I agree.
    Muscle Asylum Project Athlete

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Fort Worth
    Posts
    4,264
    Here in Texas, it's assumed that a good % of white people won't vote for a black man. That sort of sentiment is more pronounced in the rural areas. That, and some other stuff (I once got kicked out of a timeshare sales pitch out there because I'm gay--long story) is why I won't go to east Texas.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    So Cali. Inland Empire
    Posts
    1,223
    Unfortunately race is still a huge factor in this country. There are many narrow and bigoted perceptions that exist and play a role in our society at large. I for one want Obama to win very much just because it will fly in the face of the many bigoted opinions that there are out there.

    Also, I think by electing a President of color that the U.S. is at a critical point in history in that the U.S.’s collective social consciousness is in a position of true acceptance of diversity and it is not just lip service or pipe dreams. I feel it’s like a maturing process for our young political system.

    However, to vote on just the basis of skin color or whatever arbitrary characteristic that people identify with without any real thought or meaning to policy or political value is just plain ridiculous. Obama would have got my vote either way because I’m a big fan of universal health care, labor unions, and ending this retarded war in Iraq. It just makes it cooler that Obama is black and knowing that some redneck is choking on the thought of having a black leader for the next 4 or 8 years….

    Go Obama!


    On a side note… I don’t know if he will make it because I don’t know if America is ready as a nation… There is much evidence to suggest as a whole we are not … I hope I am wrong on this point.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    US
    Posts
    744
    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Guy View Post
    Obama would have got my vote either way because I’m a big fan of universal health care, labor unions
    Are you serious? Those two things will be the downfall of the American Economy. I'm being dead honest here, research and re-think your stance on that.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    So Cali. Inland Empire
    Posts
    1,223
    Quote Originally Posted by Act of God View Post
    Are you serious? Those two things will be the downfall of the American Economy. I'm being dead honest here, research and re-think your stance on that.
    What are you one of the last Bush supporters standing…???

    I think the question here is… Are you serious?

    Maybe if you did some research and rethought your position you might enlighten yourself to a better understanding of how universal healthcare and strong unions make the world a better place for many and not just a select rich few…
    but that is a whole other thread isn't it?

    Peace


    Vote Obama!


    Smiles are fun!

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    US
    Posts
    744
    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Guy View Post
    What are you one of the last Bush supporters standing…???

    Maybe if you did some research and rethought your position you might enlighten yourself to a better understanding of how universal healthcare and strong unions make the world a better place for many and not just a select rich few…
    1. Not a Bush supporter. He is far from conservative and far too religious and morally righteous.

    2. It is a fact that labor unions are ruining the American corporations. Sorry, but unskilled line assembly workers don't need or deserve to make $100,000 a year. Subway booth workers don't need or deserve $80,000. Teachers work half the days of the year, they surely don't need....you get the point.

    You want to know why we're sending all of our work out of the country? Look no further. Additionally, it creates a sense of entitlement and production goes down once the union job is secured. I'm an honors graduate in Economics and studied labor and employment law throughout lawschool, this is kinda my area of knowledge.

    3. Universal healthcare ran by the US Government is nothing but a pitfall. If you want comparison go look at Canada. Sure "everyone" has health care, but what happens when you get really sick? I'll tell you what happens, you wait. You wait, and you wait some more. In fact, most wealthy Canadians come to the United States when they really need medical attention. Additionally, the private medical industry attracts the best and the brightest.

    The US Government couldn't get water to New Orleans after Katrina, you think they are going to get you that bypass surgery a week after diagnosis? Think again.

    Additionally, no one in their right mind would give up their existing coverage for this government crap health care (by the way, look at how nicely ran the VA hospitals are). So now you have people paying for their own health care, along with paying for other people's health care.

    Ahh, you just love the welfare state. I bet you just walk around with your hands out expecting gold coins to drop from the sky...or at least to be dropped off in the mail.

    Grow up.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Vegas, bitches!!!
    Posts
    3,855
    We all know conservative white men will use the 'personal responsibility' to deny obvious racism and racial disparity in this country.

    Here is a study by the Brookings Institute:

    http://www.brookings.edu/papers/2007...te_isaacs.aspx

    I hope we can agree that the Brookings Institute is credible.

    So lets not deny the obvious as that is the main reason why we can never get past this issue of race and racism.

    As far as the general election is concerned, I don't believe Obama has a chance to win (although I am supporting him). The 90%+ of voting eligible blacks (voting eligible being the important terminology) is much less than the 15% of whites who won't vote for him because he's black.

    The 8% that admitted to their racial bias is merely a speck of those with true feelings. The only difference is those who won't admit it use some othe excuse to hide their own prejudice even from themselves.

    And don't get me started on Reagan. If you believe the man didn't court bigots and the white vote and systematically ignoring blacks completely (trickle down economics, the crack epidemic, etc.), I have some ocean front property in Vegas to sell you!

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    torrance,ca
    Posts
    3,041
    Quote Originally Posted by Act of God View Post
    2. It is a fact that labor unions are ruining the American corporations. Sorry, but unskilled line assembly workers don't need or deserve to make $100,000 a year. Subway booth workers don't need or deserve $80,000. Teachers work half the days of the year, they surely don't need....you get the point.
    +1 on that, look at detroit for just one example. Uniouns are lke a cancer, they destroy everything and then eventually have nothing left.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Getting madcow treatments
    Posts
    16,450
    “I am aware the African-American vote has been very small in favor of the Republican Party; I am aware of the challenges, and I am aware of the fact that there will be many people who will not vote for me,” McCain said. “But I’m going to be the president of all the people.”


    Well its true. Like 90%+ of the black vote go dem...the stuff about reagan was a stretch.

    and if obama has the same views as his good reverend..no way in hell I would vote for him even if I was a democrat.

  15. #15
    Carlos_E's Avatar
    Carlos_E is offline National Level Bodybuilder/Hall of Famer/RETIRED
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    17,629
    Quote Originally Posted by roidattack View Post
    if obama has the same views as his good reverend..no way in hell I would vote for him even if I was a democrat.
    What makes you think Obama has the same views? Because Fox News told you? McCain's pastor John Hagee is just as wacky. He said the Catholic church is "the great whore," an 'apostate church,' the 'anti-Christ,' a "false cult system," and linked it to Hitler's Nazi movement. So why attribute Obama's pastors views to him and not do the same for McCain?
    Muscle Asylum Project Athlete

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Getting madcow treatments
    Posts
    16,450
    Yes, I get all my marching orders from Fox news.

    I think if you choose someone like him to give you a weekly sermon and to marry you and your wife it does speak to your character. Obama has also done some "questionable" things that would go along with good ol jeremiahs teachings.

    I havent heard anything like that about McCains pastor. Link?


    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos_E View Post
    What makes you think Obama has the same views? Because Fox News told you? McCain's pastor John Hagee is just as wacky. He said the Catholic church is "the great whore," an 'apostate church,' the 'anti-Christ,' a "false cult system," and linked it to Hitler's Nazi movement. So why attribute Obama's pastors views to him and not do the same for McCain?

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    torrance,ca
    Posts
    3,041
    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos_E View Post
    What makes you think Obama has the same views? Because Fox News told you? McCain's pastor John Hagee is just as wacky. He said the Catholic church is "the great whore," an 'apostate church,' the 'anti-Christ,' a "false cult system," and linked it to Hitler's Nazi movement. So why attribute Obama's pastors views to him and not do the same for McCain?
    Carlos that guy Hagee is not McCains pastor, never was ever. He did give his endorsement to McCain and Hagee is a jerkoff and McCain needs to refuse his endorsement. Sad that these pastors represent their religion by preaching hate.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    US
    Posts
    744
    Quote Originally Posted by kfrost06 View Post
    Carlos that guy Hagee is not McCains pastor, never was ever. He did give his endorsement to McCain and Hagee is a jerkoff and McCain needs to refuse his endorsement. Sad that these pastors represnt their religion by preaching hate.
    McCain isn't very religious. He has a very secular record IIRC and is very, very different than Bush as far as that stuff goes. Anything close to that he is exhibiting now is purely for election purposes. Obama IS very religious, before he ever ran and currently.

    OT - Don't forget there are a ton of white people who will also vote for a black guy purely based on race. I believe most of them live in California and New York

  19. #19
    Carlos_E's Avatar
    Carlos_E is offline National Level Bodybuilder/Hall of Famer/RETIRED
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    17,629
    Muscle Asylum Project Athlete

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Asia
    Posts
    12,114
    I dont live in America and just see all this political American waffle from a distance, but isnt this guys mother white and his father black or visa a versa ?

  21. #21
    [QUOTE=Kale;3939021]I dont live in America and just see all this political American waffle from a distance, but isnt this guys mother white and his father black or visa a versa ?[/QUOTE

    Yes obama is mixed, as am i. but in america states actually lawfully pursue the one drop rule. If you are any drop of afro-ethnic ancestry. You are a black man to them and entitle to the second class citizenship it affords. I had professor who was white as any other white man but forced to claim african american, (to no shame of his) due to a great great great ancestor being of mixed descent. they have done studies and most african americans are comprised of 15 percent or more of caucasian ancestry. the head of the NAACP himself test as being comprised of 55 percent white dna inheritance.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Getting madcow treatments
    Posts
    16,450
    Black father white mother. You should have heard a black minister in harlem talking about it. Every word made me pissed. (hes a hillary supporter)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kale View Post
    I dont live in America and just see all this political American waffle from a distance, but isnt this guys mother white and his father black or visa a versa ?

  23. #23
    If like he stated 8 percent admitted (think of the sterotype attached to an open racist) there definitely are more "closet bigots". Yes this will affect votes.
    the simple fact is that racism does exist and affects society as a whole. racism with no descrimination exist but is highly unlikely. if you take a minority member from an equal background (wealth, class, prestige) as a white male and they both pursue the same education, at the same school, with the same gpa. on average the white man will earn almost twice as much in income as that minority member who works the same amount of time untill retirement. Race affects us all. It just seems to effect minorities in a negative way that many american are willing to ignore due to their own ignorance, under-education, limited paradigm, or maybe they do know. It just gives them unearned privledges, few will admit to receiving. ( see peggy Mccintosh)

    I play video games online regularly and you should hear all the unprovoked and unneccessary racial slurs screamed by white American gamers towards minorities. These attacks are made by all age groups and as a sociologist give me a small sample of what american white men as a whole really think. considering the large demographic of video gamers.
    Last edited by youngerlion; 04-22-2008 at 11:33 AM.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    torrance,ca
    Posts
    3,041
    Quote Originally Posted by youngerlion View Post
    if you take a minority member from an equal background (wealth, class, prestige) as a white male and they both pursue the same education, at the same school, with the same gpa. on average the white man will earn almost twice as much in income as that minority member who works the same amount of time untill retirement.
    , show us a reference to this.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by kfrost06 View Post
    , show us a reference to this.
    do a goole search on sholarly articles on the subject, you will find much data to back this. my numbers are somewhat off but they are not even comparing minority women to that of white men so i somewhat averaged to compensate for the dual-earning households in place today. you could take a sociology course on ethnic minority groups at your local university and further your knowledge of this important subject.

    "Interracial differences in lifetime earnings are shown to be due primarily to differences in economic oppurtunity, rather than differences in socioeconomicbackground" c 1978 cornell university ALLAN G KING and CHARLES B. KNAPP
    Last edited by youngerlion; 04-22-2008 at 11:04 AM.

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by youngerlion View Post
    do a goole search on sholarly articles on the subject, you will find much data to back this. my numbers are somewhat off but they are not even comparing minority women to that of white men so i somewhat averaged to compensate for the dual-earning households in place today. you could take a sociology course on ethnic minority groups at your local university and further your knowledge of this important subject.

    "Interracial differences in lifetime earnings are shown to be due primarily to differences are shown to be due primarily to differences in economic oppurtunity, rather than differences in socioeconomicbackground" c 1978 cornell university ALLAN G KING and CHARLES B. KNAPP

    lol, and still the bs flag. you dont have any facts or intelligent reasoning on the subject but you say im bs. that is funny. like i said , unearned privileges. its sad. read up on some mccintosh

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    US
    Posts
    744
    Quote Originally Posted by kfrost06 View Post
    , show us a reference to this.
    +1, completely ridiculous and statistically impossible to ascertain because all things will NEVER be equal.

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Getting madcow treatments
    Posts
    16,450
    Quote Originally Posted by youngerlion View Post
    if you take a minority member from an equal background (wealth, class, prestige) as a white male and they both pursue the same education, at the same school, with the same gpa. on average the white man will earn almost twice as much in income as that minority member who works the same amount of time untill retirement.

    Keep holding onto that notion so you have an excuse for failure.

  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by roidattack View Post
    Keep holding onto that notion so you have an excuse for failure.
    KEEP BEING IGNORANT SO YOU CAN CONTINUE TO JUSTIFY YOUR UNEARNED PRIVILEGES AND LIMITED PARADIGM

  30. #30
    and dang carlos you are stout. what is your diet and training scehdule?
    Last edited by youngerlion; 04-22-2008 at 10:01 AM.

  31. #31
    SEE like i thought. only hateful bigotry on the subject . no intelligent/ objective thought with any backing besides hate and frustarion at the misinformation you eat willingly and if your not from the states. why do you share your uneducated opinion Roidattack? no one made any excuses. i just stated facts that you seem to be ashamed/ angry about with no purpose or any educational fact. I get nothing from this and im a successful educated minority that wanted to have an intelligent conversation. guess im at the wrong place.
    Last edited by youngerlion; 04-22-2008 at 11:23 AM.

  32. #32
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Getting madcow treatments
    Posts
    16,450
    You sound young and pissed. I have no intention of having an e-duel with you. If you want to believe Im hateful and bigoted then go ahead...Maybe you will see the point I was trying to make sometime.

    Quote Originally Posted by youngerlion View Post
    SEE like i thought. only hateful bigotry on the subject . no intelligent/ objective thought with any backing besides hate and frustarion at the misinformation you eat at FOX and if your not from the states. why do you share your uneducated opinion Roidattack?

  33. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by roidattack View Post
    You sound young and pissed. I have no intention of having an e-duel with you. If you want to believe Im hateful and bigoted then go ahead...Maybe you will see the point I was trying to make sometime.
    you had no point. You are stating a subjective opinion with no facts. im not mad. just sad that your so ignorant, you really think u said something clever?

  34. #34
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Getting madcow treatments
    Posts
    16,450
    Its not clever its the truth. People will use whatever crutch they can to excuse themselves for not having enough money, a nicer car, etc. Its human nature. Ive just noticed that most of the time when people are citing stats like the one you had they are trying to blame someone else for their lack of success in life.

    Quote Originally Posted by youngerlion View Post
    you had no point. You are stating a subjective opinion with no facts. im not mad. just sad that your so ignorant, you really think u said something clever?

  35. #35
    lol. stats are data comprised from a sample group or pop. to gather facts and inferences about a phenomonon that is being studied. just in case you didnt know. You still seem confused. im not blaming any entity for this data. just making an inference. you seem to have a guilty conscience from years of imperialistic bigotry. calm down. actually read before you make a conclusion jump and educate yourself.
    Last edited by youngerlion; 04-22-2008 at 11:25 AM.

  36. #36
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Getting madcow treatments
    Posts
    16,450
    Quote Originally Posted by youngerlion View Post
    lol. stats are data comprised form a sample group or pop. to gather facts and inferences about a phenomonon that is being studied. just in case you didnt know. You still seem confused. im not blaming any entity for this data. just making an inference. you seem to have a guilty conscience from years of imperialistic bigotry. calm down. actually read before you make a conclusion jump and educate yourself.
    I kind of like you but if you keep running around the board using inflammatory statements your going to get suspended/banned. Just a warning bro.

  37. #37
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    torrance,ca
    Posts
    3,041
    Roid don't you know by now, if you disagree you are ignorant? Sure see that word being thrown around a lot. Why always resort to name calling? hmm. facts don't work so name calling is the only opition.

  38. #38
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    torrance,ca
    Posts
    3,041
    nice bling bling weapons in your avatar younglion.

  39. #39
    ignorant is actually not a derogatory statement. it means you are not aware of something. it seems alot of white men arent. this seems to be the biggest problem with America to me. have a nice life with that limited paradigm your parents provided you with. good day bigots.

  40. #40
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    torrance,ca
    Posts
    3,041
    Quote Originally Posted by youngerlion View Post
    ignorant is actually not a derogatory statement. it means you are not aware of something. it seems alot of white men arent. this seems to be the biggest problem with America to me. have a nice life with that limited paradigm your parents provided you with. good day bigots.
    Well, we know Obamas pastor is full of hate and name calling I quess it should be expected that some of Obamas supporters are the same.

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •