Sustanon gyno problems. Whats best.

[skinyboy]

I just running my first course after about 7 years natural training. I was going to run a 6 week course of sust250 1 per week, things were going well, until after my second jab 7 days after the first I had some swelling in my left tit which turned into full on very uncomfortable itchiness and then soreness in both nipples about 4 days latter it has eased off but they look puffier, it feels like possible some water retention and theres nothing hard, I did have a little pubertal gyno (puffy nips) but nothing major before I started. I managed to get hold of some nolvadex and im currently on 40mg a day until things calm down then ill go to 20mg per day, it does seem to be helping too. Im 7 days after my second jab now should I keep on the nolva for a bit longer and wait for the 10days for my next jab, I don’t really want to go through those bitch tits again, very uncomfortable and im not keen on this puffiness either. And I also don’t really want to stop the cycle either with the gains ive already made. I am dreading another flare up after next jab though.

I was planning running 6 weeks sust and then at the end leave it three weeks to start 20mg of nolva for 4 weeks as a pct. Does this mean I will have to take 13 weeks of nolva right through just for my gyno??

Is this common with the sust 250 is there a better test, I could take which may reduce the gyno symptoms.

Apart from the gyno which is a major drawback and probably one of the worst side effects, Im loving the strength gains in the gym, and also the thickness of the muscles already.

Ive talked to a lot of people and some heavy users and they are saying you shouldnt have it at that dose, but shit happens, and everybody is different, different things effect different people.

im not interested in big cycles or being mr O, just at little something to get me training better and getting the most from my hard sessions and food.

Would appreciate anyone’s opinions, the more info we can share the better for everyone.

[GT2]

There is so much wrong with what you said, I don't know where to start

[Big]

There is so much wrong with what you said, I don't know where to start

Me too neither.

[Big]

I just running my first course after about 7 years natural training. I was going to run a 6 week course of sust250 1 per week, 6 weeks is too short and sust should be shot eod things were going well, until after my second jab 7 days after the first I had some swelling in my left tit which turned into full on very uncomfortable itchiness and then soreness in both nipples about 4 days latter it has eased off but they look puffier, it feels like possible some water retention and theres nothing hard, I did have a little pubertal gyno (puffy nips) but nothing major before I started. I managed to get hold of some nolvadex and im currently on 40mg a day until things calm down then ill go to 20mg per day, it does seem to be helping too. Im 7 days after my second jab now should I keep on the nolva for a bit longer and wait for the 10days for my next jab, I don’t really want to go through those bitch tits again, very uncomfortable and im not keen on this puffiness either. And I also don’t really want to stop the cycle either with the gains ive already made. so you have made noticeable gains with 2 weekly shots of 250mg sust? I am dreading another flare up after next jab though.

I was planning running 6 weeks sust and then at the end leave it three weeks to start 20mg of nolva for 4 weeks as a pct. Does this mean I will have to take 13 weeks of nolva right through just for my gyno??

Is this common with the sust 250 is there a better test, I could take which may reduce the gyno symptoms.

Apart from the gyno which is a major drawback and probably one of the worst side effects, Im loving the strength gains in the gym, and also the thickness of the muscles already. again, this is after 2 shots?

Ive talked to a lot of people and some heavy users and they are saying you shouldnt have it at that dose, but shit happens, and everybody is different, different things effect different people.

im not interested in big cycles or being mr O, just at little something to get me training better and getting the most from my hard sessions and food.

Would appreciate anyone’s opinions, the more info we can share the better for everyone.

in red above for starters^

[jamyjamjr]

i did 10 weeks eod 125mg sust and loved it.. had predisposed gyno from my teenage years and it didn't effect it at all... 1 shot a week is just gonna suppress your natural test levels and leave your body in the shit, i'd reconsider the cycle and take big's advice, guy knows what he's talkin about

[JiGGaMaN]

I like to eat and lift.

[beachbum28]

Man..why is everyone tryin to be such hard asses on sust users. Everyone is different and not all applies! First off, 6 weeks is just about the time you start seeing things happen. I run it everytime for 14 weeks..sometimes 16 if still getting gains @ about 375-475 1 shot/wk and it does great for me....FOR ME!!! Gyno on sust can be stopped with Nolva, and yes even reversed if its not to bad...but maybe not for everyone. I don't see how you are getting any gains after just 2 shots..maybe mental gains but def not from the sust. If you are getting gyno this early then you are in for a long ride, because it is only going to build up in your blood, and running volva on cycle will just eliminate your gains for the most part. You need to get something to lower your estrogen levels throughout your cycle..try rebound xt if you can't get anything. I heard some real good stuff about that..In fact, was talking to a higher up that siad it will be off the market soon because the fda is doing investigation because its working too well. I think letro might work, but i don;t have any exp with it.. ask one of the guys with more knowledge on letro. Run the nolva until all signs are gone, thenm one extra week...stop nolva and run an anti armatase drug to stop conversion and watch for signs. If you still get signs then I'd plan on coming off cycle. JMO

[beachbum28]

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...aphics/Bra.jpg Problem solved.

Thios is why this board is starting to suck ass... Dude is in need of help and you show him a ****ing bra... you dickhead! Just help the guy out. Yeah maybe he didn't do his homework well enough, but I'm sure you didn't either when you started... we all need help at times, and if you don't then you should just write a book on it! I'm really getting sick of the smart asses on this board.... I've been cool with everyone until the last few days...so **** all you assholes that want to rag people for asking for help..regardless if they know what they are doing! Some people just ask to be ragged on with some dumb ass questions, but most don't deserve it like this dude. He doesn't need a bra, but some good solid advice from someone. OUT

[LATS60]

Hey beachbum, you ok man, you sound really pissed about something, hope everthings ok man.

[beachbum28]

LOL.. yeah bro I'm fine.. just getting sick of this board and the smart asses with high posts thinking they are top dogs. Jiggaman is a senior with over 1000 post..he could have been a little more help rather than showing the dude a bra. Maybe it's roid rage..LOL Thanks for asking though.

[JiGGaMaN]

Thios is why this board is starting to suck ass... Dude is in need of help and you show him a ****ing bra... you dickhead! Just help the guy out. Yeah maybe he didn't do his homework well enough, but I'm sure you didn't either when you started... we all need help at times, and if you don't then you should just write a book on it! I'm really getting sick of the smart asses on this board.... I've been cool with everyone until the last few days...so **** all you assholes that want to rag people for asking for help..regardless if they know what they are doing! Some people just ask to be ragged on with some dumb ass questions, but most don't deserve it like this dude. He doesn't need a bra, but some good solid advice from someone. OUT

Fair enough, I will remove that since it was in poor taste.

Ok, lets get started:
1. Dosage too low, injection frequency too low, cycle duration too low
2. Nolva wont do much, but arimidex or letrozole will.
3. I think if you are getting gyno 1 week into a cycle, steroids may not be for you unless you load up on AI's.

[beachbum28]

Fair enough, I will remove that since it was in poor taste.

Ok, lets get started:
1. Dosage too low, injection frequency too low, cycle duration too low
2. Nolva wont do much, but arimidex or letrozole will.
3. I think if you are getting gyno 1 week into a cycle, steroids may not be for you unless you load up on AI's.

Thanks jiggaman... thats we he needed. Sorry for gettin upset..just been dealin with it lately.. Good advice though man

[JiGGaMaN]

Thanks jiggaman... thats we he needed. Sorry for gettin upset..just been dealin with it lately.. Good advice though man

It's ok, we all get a bit cranky once and a while. But in all honesty, you werent wrong for saying that.

[jamyjamjr]

wow, i think that was a bonding moment. lol... baby steps

[skinyboy]

Thanks for the responses so far, I have been training for 15+ years natural and the last 7 years consistently and I know for sure im not going to improve that much more now following the natural route, there seems to be so many different opinions out there when it comes to using, its hard to know for me at this stage what to listen to and what to discard. Everyone has to start somewhere and that’s what im doing. I have tried and wasted a lot of money on natural supplements over the years, but doing just a little bit of gear has had an effect already (not a massive effect but it is something.) maybe I haven’t transformed but I have noticed a difference in my body, but I just need a bit more info to get myself onto something that suits me.

Some of you guys are brutal on here, we all have to start somewhere.

I really appreciate your help beachbum and Maybe your right JiGGaMaN about the gear not being for me unless I load up on AI, I know a lot of guys who never have any of these problems. Is there any guys who routinely use AIs out there or is it just to much hassle to do the gear for them. I have read a load of different examples of cycles, side effects and PCT, and summarised that this one may be right for me but you think you understand something and then something happens and you realise you know nothing at all.

Ive got some tamoxifen now and im on two a day at the moment 40mg and I does seem to be doing the trick of stopping irritation, but im still unsure what to do with regards to carrying on this cycle and for how long I run the tamoxifen? I did plan to do the sust for 6 weeks then use the tamoxifen only for PCT, should I take any more sust or just wait unlit I get an AI, I know I can get hold of liquid arinidex, 50ml x 1 mg/ml, which isn’t cheap and would substantially increase the cost of me doing a cycle. or is there a bettert AI i should look for, What do you think?

[ROBOCOP]

Hey Skinyboy.

Have a look at the info CBINO listed on gyno reversal. Not everyone agrees with it, sure,,,,,,,but this worked awsome for me. He knows his stuff and if you need to then give it a try.

Good luck

I am posting this thread to help answer all of the questions regarding gyno prevention and reversal, the use of letrozole and other anti-e’s. I will go over everything in very simple easy to understand language. Also we are talking about estrogen gyno here, not progesterone (but using letro will stop progesterone related problems as well since it inhibits all estrogen anyways). Progesterone gyno will be enlargement of your nipple area, the actual aereola, not a lump under it.

Let me make this first point very clear, as I state in my signature this is from my personal experience, so whether you agree with it or not is your own issue. I have helped many people with gyno and it has worked just fine for them as well.

To first understand why you are doing what you are doing I am going to go over a few things and a few definitions:

SERM – Selective estrogen receptor modulator. These drugs work by binding to the estrogen receptors and flooding them in a sense, making it difficult (but not impossible by any means) for estrogen to bind to the receptors and thus prevent the onset of estrogen related side effects.
Most common forms: Tamoxifen (Nolvadex), Clomiphene (Clomid)
AI – Aromatise Inhibitor. These drugs work by inhibiting the aromatization of estrogen. This means that in effect AI’s prevent androgens from converting to estrogen, again, making it difficult (but not impossible) for estrogen to reach receptor sites.
Most common forms: Anastrozole (l-dex, a-dex), Exemestane (aromasin), Femera (letrozole). For our purpose of reversing gyno we are interested in Letro.

Letro and your sex drive:
Letrozole will suppress your sex drive. This is another reason why it is so important to act on preventing gyno as soon as possible. Since we all know that Test should be run in every cycle this will cancel out the effect of sex drive suppression.

Running letro to prevent gyno:
If you decide to run estrogen protection while on cycle (and I suggest you do unless you are aware that you do not require it), you can run either a SERM or an AI. Letro will be the most powerful AI you can use, it will inhibit 98+% of estrogen using a dose as low as .25mg and even lower. This is why I suggest you do not use a dose higher than .50mg while on cycle just trying to prevent estrogen related side effects.

You will want to start running the letro approximately 2 weeks before you begin your cycle to allow it to fully stabilize in your blood. I have often heard the argument that letro takes up to 60 days to stabilize, I don’t know if I buy into this for the reason that I have reversed gyno after using letro for only 1 week. Still to be safe I recommend starting it before your cycle as stated above.

If you do decide to run letro there is absolutely no need to run another AI or SERM. Do not make the mistake of thinking more is better. Think of it this way; if letro is preventing the conversion of androgens to estrogen than there is no estrogen, what would the purpose of a SERM be when there is no estrogen to bind to the receptors? Nolva will only take away from the effectiveness of letro.

This brings me to my next point. Do not listen to anyone who tells you to bump up your nolvadex to 60+mg ED if you get gyno. I have no idea where this idea started but I have seen it suggest far too many times recently. Nolvadex will do nothing to reverse your gyno…let me make that clear IT WILL DO NOTHING FOR GYNO. If you are running nolva as your anti-e and start to develop gyno than sure you can bump the dosage a small amount to try to prevent it from progressing further, but letrozole must begin ASAP.

It is very important that you begin taking letrozole immediately, the longer your wait the more risk you take in not being able to reverse it.

How do I know if I have gyno?
If you have developed gyno you will have a lump behind your nipple. It will be fairly hard, and it will be tender to touch.

Running letro to reverse gyno:
I am going to go over the three different scenarios which people could fit into. Remember regardless of what scenario you are in it is important that you begin taking the letro ASAP.

1. Already using an anti-e aside from letro.
2. Already using letro @ a dose of .25mg or .50mg ED.
3. Not running any estrogen protection.

1.
Day 1: .25mg Letro + anti-e*
Day 2: .50mg Letro
Day 3: 1.0mg Letro
Day 4: 1.5mg Letro
Day 5: 2.0mg Letro
Day 6: 2.5mg Letro **

2.
Day 1: .50mg Letro
Day 2: 1.0mg Letro
Day 3: 1.5mg Letro
Day 4: 2.0mg Letro
Day 5: 2.5mg Letro **

3.
Day 1: .50mg Letro
Day 2: 1.0mg Letro
Day 3: 1.5mg Letro
Day 4: 2.0mg Letro
Day 5: 2.5mg Letro **

*Regardless of the anti-e you are using it is important to still use it for the first day you begin letro as the letro will not have taken any effect and you by no means want your body to be without any protection when gyno is already prevalent.

** You will remain at this dose until gyno symptoms subside. Once you believe your gyno is gone it is important to stay at this dose for another 4-7 days to ensure all traces are gone. I recommend people with a bf% over 15 stay on for a week as it may be harder to judge completely whether the lump is completely gone. Once this period is over it will be important to taper letro down slowly rather than coming off it completely. Regardless of which manner you tapered up your dose you will all taper down in the same fashion.

Day 1: 2.0mg
Day 2: 1.5mg
Day 3: 1.0mg
Day 4: .50mg***
Day 5: .25mg
***You can remain at this dose or go down further to .25mg. It is really up to you at this point. They are both very common maintenance doses as an anti-e while on cycle. Personally I have stayed with .25mg and never had a problem.

Letro and the estrogen rebound:
With your estrogen being completely inhibited there is a definite estrogen rebound as your body tries to re-stabilize the testosterone:estrogen balance. We can prevent this rebound effect by supplementing further with another AI or SERM. So, I suggest that when you are coming to the end of your cycle you will more than likely be using Nolva in your PCT so just make sure that you begin taking nolva the last day you are going to take your letro and then continue on as you would with regular PCT.

This now leads us into the question of reversing gyno while not on cycle. There are a few things to remember here. You have already waited longer than you should have, and your sex drive will be shot. You can use tribulus or another natural test booster to help you in this scenario but I can’t guarantee the effectiveness. Just follow gyno reversal protocols 2 or 3. When coming off again you must taper and begin using nolvadex to prevent any rebound effect that may occur.

How much nolvadex should you use if you are not going into PCT and running this off cycle? I suggest starting at 20mg ED for a week and then lowering it to 10mg for another week and then coming off completely.

I hope this covers most of the issues, still feel free to PM me if you have questions. But make sure you read the entire post first.

I will ignore PM's that have an answer covered in this post already.
__________________
Bino

[csavage0]

I agree... Letro and more Letro. I used a shit ton of sust for my first cycle didnt get any gyno tho. Good luck. Shows everyone is differnt