Women On Deca For Defiency(not working)

[lesnbek]

Ok so i need som advice. I was given a shot of Testosterone by a Dr for Test Defiency- Afetr one day I felt so wonderful. My depression was gone and I was happy for once. I was not in as much pain from illnesses and i wanted sex more than once a day which usually i never want it. I had energy also.

I went back to Dr who advised I come in every 2 weeks. I went in only to be told he could not give me shot again. Instead he gave me .5 test cream which did nothing. So I got a taste of normalcy and it was taken away.
This was over 8 months ago.

I did research and came to conclusion I would take Deca because it is safest and will help with muscle pain. I want to have energy,sex drive,be happy,and possible gain strength because i have Fibrpmyagia and arthritis and currently cant even open a soda. I am 5'9 122 lbs and feel like im in old persons body.

I bought some Deca 300 Qv and had gotten syringes from my aunt because she had supply for diabetes. Gave myself 50mg injection only to discover needle was way to small 31 gauge. It took forever to get med in. I dont know if this was wasted because it did not go in muscle. I oredered correct pins and waited week and half.

Ok now i get pins and am scared of stick cause these are way longer plus i am so skinny wil it hit a bone? My boyfriend gives me shot in musce on right butt cheek. It didn't hurt at all.
Now when is it going to work. I wait 3 days nothing-one more day nothing. I decide I will inject 50 more mg. It has been 6 days since first injection with correct pin. I don't feel any better can't even tell i had injection.

I am wondering why test dr gave me worked so fast and this Deca is doing nothing. I have no strength or energy to work out. I do notice my muscles have not been aching as much.
I also wonder should I use something other than Deac or with Deca- I am not abusing nor do I want any negative side effects. I only want the test to make my quality of life better but because Dr's dont give a crap about us women it doesnt matter. ANY ADVICE WOULD BE APPRECIATED!

[Mammon]

deca takes a long time to start to have an effect.. personally think you would have been better off with test.

plus that deca you have.. that brand is iffy at best.. personally being female and what your doing.. id want to make sure the dosing is spot on.. would have went with human grade gear not some shady under ground lab.. jmo

[lesnbek]

Thanks mammon you always write me back. made feel feel better. i guess i will get test next time-does it work faster? Is there any places to get other than source i have which i dont want to use because of qv

[JiGGaMaN]

um yeah. dont do steroids if you are a woman. for the love of god dont do test. theres no evidence to suggest anabolics of any form help fibromyalgia, and given its normal for women to have no testosterone (and for good reason), i wouldnt mess with this stuff.

[Mammon]

think she has low test.. low sex drive among other things.. test replacement for women is very common.

[JiGGaMaN]

think she has low test.. low sex drive among other things.. test replacement for women is very common.

all women have low test... and test replacement for women is unheard of unless they are post-menopausal. even then we are talking microgram per day dosages. the doctor pulled her off it for a reason, why would you recommend she do otherwise?

[M302_Imola]

um yeah. dont do steroids if you are a woman. for the love of god dont do test. theres no evidence to suggest anabolics of any form help fibromyalgia, and given its normal for women to have no testosterone (and for good reason), i wouldnt mess with this stuff.

agree! She might look into Cymbalta as I believe is suppose to help with fibromyalgia.

[lesnbek]

um yeah. dont do steroids if you are a woman. for the love of god dont do test. theres no evidence to suggest anabolics of any form help fibromyalgia, and given its normal for women to have no testosterone (and for good reason), i wouldnt mess with this stuff.

Women do have testosterone in their bodies just not as much as men- this is why men want to have sex all the time-there is evidence that it increases quality of life to have test when you have test defiency. Steroids are sterotyped because people abuse them. They can have life altering positive side effects if used for the right reasons.

Guy goes to Dr saying he has no urge to make love and can get it up what do they do they find he has defiency or something and give him test or viagra

A woman has this problem and they r out of luck unless she finds a Dr who has experience in this.

[Mammon]

agree..

ill just post these again..

Public release date: 23-Nov-2004
[ Print Article | E-mail Article | Close Window ]

Contact: Sabina Bossi
[email protected]
46-85-248-3895
Swedish Research Council

Testosterone improves women's sex lives
A recently published dissertation from the Karolinska Institutet in Sweden shows that testosterone has both a physiological and a psychological impact on women's sexuality.
In her dissertation, gynecologist Angelique Flöter Rådestad has studied the effects of combined testosterone and estrogen on sexuality, well-being, and the consistency of bones and the body in women who have had their uterus and ovaries removed.

Several previous studies have shown that hormones like estrogen and progesterone have beneficial effects on the quality of life after menopause. But very little is known about the role of testosterone and what effect testosterone deficiency has on women. When both ovaries have been removed, the production of testosterone is reduced by half, which can affect the sexual function and well-being.

The dissertation demonstrates that women who received a combination treatment of estrogen and testosterone for 6 months experienced a significant improvement in certain aspects of their sexual function. The work also shows that endogenous testosterone plays a role in sexual desire, arousal, and satisfaction. A testosterone supplement increased women's interest and joy in sex and their satisfaction with the extent of their sex life.

Combined testosterone/estrogen treatment and placebo/estrogen improved psychological well-being just as much.

The studies show further that supplemental testosterone has a beneficial effect on musculature and bone metabolism. On the other hand, a certain negative effect was observed on blood fats. Side effects in the form of hair growth and acne were rare.

In sum the dissertation indicates that testosterone is important in women's sexuality. The positive effects of bones and body structure may also be of significance for women who have had their ovaries removed.


###
Dissertation:
Testosterone treatment in women: Aspects of sexuality, well-being and metabolism

Author:

__________________

[Mammon]

Women and testosterone: An interview with a Mayo Clinic specialist
From MayoClinic.com
Special to CNN.com


Testosterone is a word that often brings to mind images of big men, big trucks and gladiator-style football. After all, testosterone is considered to be the principal male hormone, playing an important role in the development and maintenance of typical masculine characteristics, such as facial hair, muscle mass and a deeper voice. So why would women want testosterone? The fact is, women produce it too, and it has more positive influences than you might think.

Paul Carpenter, M.D., is a consultant in endocrinology and health informatics research at Mayo Clinic, Rochester, Minn. He has practiced in endocrinology, with a special interest in hormone replacement, for 25 years. Here he addresses questions about the role of testosterone in women.

Testosterone is usually thought of as a male hormone, but women have it, too. How much testosterone do women produce?

Testosterone production is substantially lower in women than it is in men. After puberty, a woman begins to produce a constant, adult level of testosterone. The production is split about 50:50 between the ovaries and the adrenal glands. In men, the testes produce testosterone. Women produce just a fraction of the amount of testosterone each day that men do.

What does testosterone do for women?

Studies show that it helps maintain muscle and bone and contributes to sex drive, or libido. There are also quality-of-life issues. If you give testosterone replacement to testosterone-deficient women, they often say they feel better, but they're not specific as to how.

One of the tough things about research in this area is what has been measured and what hasn't. Testosterone levels, muscle mass and bone strength have been measured. When testosterone levels in the blood increase, bone density generally improves. Although a few researchers have attempted to measure changes in sex drive and overall quality of life, these important effects are much more difficult to assess. A study in the New England Journal of Medicine evaluated sexuality and quality of life in women with low blood levels of testosterone. After raising their blood levels of testosterone using a medicated skin patch, health and sexuality seemed to improve.

Which women should have their testosterone levels checked?

It's a complicated answer. After menopause, testosterone production drops, but not as sharply as estrogen does. Forwomen who've had their ovaries removed, testosterone production drops by roughly one-half, sometimes resulting in less-than-normal testosterone blood levels.

Generally, the women who have too little testosterone are those who may go to their doctor with concerns like, "Ever since I had my ovaries removed, I don't feel like the same person. I'm not as strong, I don't have as much energy and I don't have the same sex drive." Should we measure testosterone in all women who've had their ovaries removed? I don't know. If a woman says her sex life has diminished since her hysterectomy, her doctor may check her testosterone level. If it's low, she can consider testosterone replacement.

Another group at risk of low testosterone is women who have lost pituitary gland function because of a medical condition or past surgery. The pituitary sends hormone messages to the adrenal glands and ovaries. Without the pituitary signal, hormones aren't manufactured. These women require estrogen and cortisone replacement, and they're also testosterone deficient. This isn't a common problem, however.

Why aren't more women being given testosterone replacement?

It's true that very few women are getting testosterone replacement. As I've indicated, good studies about deficiency are sparse. Because of that, many doctors aren't yet convinced of the benefits. In testosterone replacement studies done 15 or 20 years ago, the doses were often too high. As a result, there were side effects, such as body hair growth and acne.

Another major problem is that we don't have good product choices to give women because the drug companies don't manufacture many products fortestosterone replacement in women. In the New England Journal of Medicine study mentioned before, researchers tested a skin patch designed forwomen. Unfortunately, this patch isn't yet available but may well be in the future. Testosterone patches are available for men, and there is a testosterone gel they can apply to their skin. But because women would need a much smaller dose, they cannot use the patches or gels designed for men.

Right now there's really not a good way to replace testosterone in women. We can use injections, but most women don't want to come in for a shot every 2 or 3 weeks, and the blood levels are hard to regulate. After an injection, testosterone levels may go up too high, then decline, like a roller coaster. There's no pure testosterone in pill form either. Synthetic pills are available but tend to be unevenly absorbed into the body and may pose some risk to the liver. Testosterone delivered through the skin with a patch is absorbed quite evenly and seems more natural, with less potential for serious side effects. Using patches doesn't appear to be risky as long as the dose is regulated.

How important is it forwomen with low testosterone to have it replaced?

It isn't an imminent health danger per se. However, think about the older woman with osteoporosis who has fallen and fractured her hip. If her testosterone is low, would replacement have helped prevent her hip fracture? It's possible. Testosterone has the potential to strengthen her bones. Additionally, she might have been able to prevent the fall if her muscle mass had been better.

If a postmenopausal woman is on hormone replacement therapy (HRT), does that affect her need for testosterone?

Yes. Estrogen therapy — with or without progesterone — can further suppress residual testosterone production by the ovaries. That's because hormone signals from the pituitary gland drive ovarian hormone production. Taking estrogen partially reduces the pituitary hormone signal to the ovaries and potentially reduces testosterone production. The pituitary senses there's enough estrogen, so it doesn't send the signal for more estrogen and testosterone.



The latest on hormone replacement therapy: An interview with a Mayo Clinic specialist


Hormone replacement therapy: Who should take it and what are the alternatives?


What are the side effects of testosterone replacement?

When given in appropriate doses, there are no negative side effects. Today we can measure blood levels, so it's easier to monitor the dose. Excessive testosterone can cause acne, body hair growth and scalp hair loss in women. Excessive testosterone supplementation, such as you'll find with anabolic steroids used by athletes, also tends to drop high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol levels. That's the "good" cholesterol. Lower HDL levels increase the risk of heart disease.

What about other androgens, such as dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA)?

DHEA is a weak androgen or male hormone. Although it's true that DHEA levels decline with age, very few well-designed research studies show benefit from replacement. Another New England Journal of Medicine study says DHEA treatment improves sexual function in women who have underactive adrenal glands, but not many people are using the supplement for that reason. In addition, many people are taking DHEA in very large quantities. Again, excessive amounts of synthetic androgens drive down HDL cholesterol levels, which is considered a cardiovascular risk. People who are ill often have lower-than-normal DHEA or testosterone levels. This appears to be a normal physiologic response to illness and not the cause of the illness.


March 31, 2003



© 1998-2004 Mayo Foundation for Medical Education and Research (MFMER). All rights reserved. A single copy of these materials may be reprinted for noncommercial personal use only. "Mayo," "Mayo Clinic," "MayoClinic.com," "Mayo Clinic Health Information," "Reliable information for a healthier life" and the triple-shield Mayo logo are trademarks of Mayo Foundation for Medical Education and Research. Terms of Use.

__________________

[lesnbek]

This is not just for fibro deca just helps with that. et me break it down a little. I did not go through puberty till i was 19 at all this is because my body does not produce testosterone and other hormones it needs. He took me off it because he was an idiot.

It was so beneficial when i took it-I felt normal for once-the only neg thing was i wanted sex constantly but that is better than never ever wanting it because of hormones being messed up. I had energy, less pain from ilnesses, I was able to get up in the morning instead of noon, i was in a good mood. To me that would say it was good for me to have. I know in the coming years they will start using test in women more.

I dont want negative side effects but to feel good everyday and live normal live some neg effects would still be worth it but that only happens if you abuse it or use more than ur body needs.

[Phate]

here are somemore, though not specific to deca

Women and Steroids
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=199056

Steroids and Woman’s Health
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=199055

Woman and HGH
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ighlight=woman

Test and Female Body Composition
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ighlight=woman

[Mammon]

Testosterone for women

Posted by fit kitty at Steroid Support

Testosterone for Women
Contrarian Endocrinology: Testosterone for Women
by Karlis Ullis, MD with Josh Shackman, MA

In this series of articles, I will attempt to bring clarity to two common myths about endocrinology. The first myth is the notion of the exclusivity of "male" and "female" sex hormones. While it is true that men have higher concentrations of testosterone and lower concentrations of estrogen and progesterone than women, all of these sex hormones play vital roles in both sexes. The second myth I will dispense with is the notion of "good" and "bad" hormones. Some hormones such as DHT and testosterone have been demonized and blamed for all sorts of health problems, but the fact is that every hormone plays a vital balancing role in the body. Rather than be labeled as "good" or "bad", each hormone has an optimal equilibrium level in the body with respect to the other sex hormones. It is when your sex hormones are out of balance—out of their proper ratios then you may manifest health problem, not just because of any one solitary "villain" hormone.

Testosterone is widely known as being the male hormone, yet it has been so villainized by society that even its medical use in men has been made into a social taboo for many years. However, now not only has testosterone replacement therapy became more accepted for use in men, more and more doctors are now also prescribing testosterone for women. In this article I will outline the benefits for testosterone use in women for increasing libido, mood, energy, skin quality, and most importantly to Mesomorphosis readers – body composition.


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Testosterone and Female Body Composition

A women in her late twenties, came to see me complaining about her difficulty in losing weight. After taking a medical history , it was very difficult to tell what the basis of her problem was. She was working out daily, with a balance of aerobic exercise and weight training under the guidance of a qualified personal trainer. Her diet was a basic low carbohydrate/ high protein diet. Even more perplexing, she had been taking a caffeine/ephedrine thermogenic stack and had previously experimented with some diet drugs as well. Something was obviously wrong. I did blood tests to check all of her hormone levels. When the results came back, all of her hormones were in the normal range except for, you guessed it, testosterone! She had very low free testosterone level. It was equal to that seen in a postmenopausal women. This was an obvious source of her fat loss problem .

While the role of testosterone in maintaining muscle mass and losing body fat may be obvious to bodybuilders and athletes, it is a basic hormonal fact that is often absent in the medical community. It is known that many women begin to gain fat rapidly about ten to fifteen years before the menopause and also after. The connection between low to absent testosterone production and the deterioration of a healthy body composition is rarely made. Most women are often only given estrogens and progestins as hormone replacement therapy, but not testosterone. I have found in my medical practice that giving women estrogen and progesterone and not testosterone makes it almost impossible for them to lose weight/fat. With the scourge of increasing obesity in the USA, one would expect the medical community to pay closer attention to these issues. Yet the connection between sex hormones, and body composition is highly controversial.

Why is there such a controversy? Why is a hormone commonly used by farmers to fatten up livestock given to postmenopausal women at risk for obesity? Many doctors point to a recent study showing that when postmenopausal women given estrogen actually gained less weight than those not given estrogen (Espeland, et al, 1997). In this study 875 women were either put on .625 mg of oral estrogen a day or a placebo for three years. So does this mean that estrogen is actually a good fat-loss agent? Hardly! In this study, in spite of the publicity it was given, the authors note that when you control for lifestyle factors such as physical activity the effects of estrogen replacement therapy were insignificant.

From my clinical experience I have found that on the average when a young woman goes on birth control pills a 3-5 pound gain in fat mass can be expected, and at menopause with oral estrogens 4-8 pounds of fat mass gain can be anticipated - especially when oral estrogens are used. A recent controlled study showed that oral estrogens caused a gain in fat mass and loss in muscle, with a decrease in IGF-1 levels (O'Sullivan et al, 1998). This study is more consistent with my clinical observations.

So why isn’t testosterone more commonly given for weight loss in women? The medical community actually commonly believes testosterone causes obesity. This is due to a number of studies linking upper body obesity /abdominal obesity in women to elevated testosterone levels. Once again, this is a case of blaming one hormone as a "villain". In these women, they do in fact have higher than normal testosterone levels but their whole hormonal system is out of balance. Not only do they have high testosterone levels, but they also have poor insulin sensitivity as well as high insulin levels. Often these women have a metabolic problem of insulin resistance—which is associated with obesity. There is no serious evidence that testosterone replacement therapy for women will result in greater body fat – in fact the opposite is true.

With the social stigma against testosterone and anabolic steroids in general, and it is difficult enough to get a study approved on testosterone in men. Imagine how difficult it is to get a human use committee to approve a study on testosterone in women! However, there is one study that helped to illuminate the potential for androgens to help women lose fat. Lovejoy et al, in 1996, compared the effects of nandrolone decanoate and the anti-androgen drug Spironolactone on body composition in obese, postmenopausal women. The dose given the nandrolone group was low – 30 mg every other week. All women in the study were put on a calorie restricted diet (500 calories below lean mass maintenance), and were told not to change their exercise habits. After nine months, the women receiving nandrolone lost an average of 3.6 percent of their bodyfat while the placebo group lost only 1.8 percent and the spirolactone (an anti-androgen) only .5 percent. Nandrolone doubled the rate of fat loss over the placebo and the anti-androgen group barely lost any fat at all – the role of androgens in fat loss is clearly demonstrated. Even more impressive, the nandrolone group actually gained an average of roughly four pounds of lean mass in spite of the calorie restriction while the placebo and anti-androgen groups lost over two pounds of lean mass. Nandrolone also did not produce insulin resistance as androgens have been previously believed to do.

Lovejoy’s group were impressed by the ability of nandrolone to produce increased muscle mass in spite of overall weight loss. Keep in mind that dose was fairly small and only given every other week, and that these women were put only somewhat extreme calorie restricted diets without being put on a weight training program. Imagine the improvement in body composition had these women been put on a balanced exercise program and were given a high protein diet in addition to their nandrolone!

Despite the positive result, the authors cautioned against using nandrolone decanoate as a weight loss therapy. There was a mild abnormality of blood lipids and a slight increase in abdominal fat in the nandrolone group. While these side effects were minor, I believe that if testosterone was used in this study instead of nandrolone, these effects would be smaller or non-existent. I also think that daily use of a testosterone gel would be more effective than a bi-monthly shot, since the gel would keep testosterone at a more physiological and consistent level whereas injections lead to huge up and down fluctuations.

It is clear to me, both from my clinical practice and from research, that testosterone is vital for women to preserve their lean mass and to prevent obesity. Not only will testosterone help mobilize body fat and negate some of the fat storing effects of estrogen, it is also extremely effective in building lean mass in women - even at small doses. Hormone replacement therapy that only includes estrogen and progesterone but leaves out testosterone is a curse of many a women’s fat loss program. This is not only a concern for postmenopausal women. Young women should think twice about using birth control pills. Birth control pills elevate estrogen and progesterone levels while drastically lowering testosterone levels. This is reason why many women experience large gains in fat as well as a decreased libido when using birth control pills.


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Energy, Mood, and Libido

Far from being the cause of irritability and "roid rage" as widely believed, I have found that restoring testosterone levels to normal can tremendously improve energy levels and mood in women. Estrogen is sometimes believed to be energizing, but most women do not feel much of an "energizing effect" from estrogen. Natural progesterone can have a calming, relaxing effect on women, but the nasty synthetic and potent progestins like Provera (medroxyprogesterone acetate) or the more potent, nornorethindrone can actually cause irritability, aggressiveness, and even acne.

Libido is one area of use for testosterone in women that is starting to gain larger acceptability. One pharmaceutical company (Unimed) is close to getting a testosterone gel for women approved for use as a libido enhancing drug. While the thought of horny postmenopausal women may cause you to snicker, I believe that libido is a serious medical issue. The infamous study on sexual dysfunction funded by the Ford Foundation and the U.S. National Institute of Health showed that low interest in sex was the number one cause of sexual dysfunction in women (Laumann, et al, 1999, JAMA , Feb., 10, 199, Vol 281. No 6p537-544). Restoring a healthy libido in women can help bring back the spice in marriages, relationships, relieve stress and depression, and even improve body composition through increased sexual interest and activity. Testosterone is the primordial hormone for promoting both a sexy body and a better sex life.


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Testosterone and Skin

Do you have dry and thin skin? This may be a sign of lack of oil production from your sebaceous glands. A lack of oil production can be related to a decline in testosterone . Also thinning, atrophy , or inflammation of the the introitus (the vaginal opening) can be from a hormone imbalance. Even painful intercourse can be due to the lack of estrogen and testosterone. I have treated young and older women with testosterone creams to thicken the vaginal entry so that they may be able to enjoy sex without pain. Using small and balanced doses of T gels and creams I have improved the quality of aging skin without the side effects of acne, hair loss or masculinizing effects.

The role of testosterone on skin condition is often ignored, even though this should be of obvious concern to anybody using testosterone to improve overall physical appearance. Normally it is believed that testosterone can only worsen skin by causing breakouts of acne. However, low testosterone levels can only lead to worsening of skin conditions as well. Restoring testosterone to normal levels can make skin look much thicker and smoother than it was before.


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Protocols for Female Hormone Replacement Therapy

Many women come to my office complaining of lack of energy, sex drive, and weight gain. They have been to other doctors who have told them that these are inevitable effects of aging and they should just learn to live with them. However, I have found that providing these women with a "hormonal makeover" can have profound effects on their lives. For postmenopausal women, I begin by placing them on "start up" small dose of a testosterone cream or gel (usually at .25 to 1 milligram every other day in the am applied to the neck area behind the jaw for best absorption capacity, or the inner non sun exposed area of the upper arm hangs next to the chest wall). The dose is individualized over time.

Next, I may redo their previous hormone replacement program. If they are currently on Provera, I immediately switch them to natural progesterone which I believe is far safer. Most postmenopausal women are on Premarin, which is an odd blend of estrogens derived form pregnant horse urine (pregnant mare urine). I reduce the dose of estrogen, and change them over to a natural bi-estrogen or a natural transdermal estradiol compounded formula. This change is significant, as one study showed that Premarin caused an increase in fat mass and loss of muscle in postmenopausal women while transdermal estradiol had no significant effects on body composition (O'Sullivan, 1998). I also encourage women to increase their intake of fiber, and phytoestrogens by taking a black cohosh containing formula and other plants that have estrogen like effects. Soy products are a must.

The goal of this program is to give women back an optimal balance of sex hormones similar to the one they had in their youthful days. Testosterone levels and sometimes progesterone levels can be restored with natural hormone replacement therapy. Balanced and safe estrogen levels can be obtained from a combination of estrogen production from the aromatization of the testosterone they are using , from phytoestrogens such as soy, black cohosh, and a small dose of natural estrogen. Once this natural balance is restored, women can often break the weight loss plateaus they previously reached and can reverse the loss of muscle and bone mass that occurs with age.

For younger women I am more hesitant to give any hormonal therapies, especially if they wish to someday have children. This is not to say that pre-menopausal women cannot benefit from higher testosterone levels. I have been using the prohormone 4-androstenediol (4-adiol) in selected women who are not wanting to have babies. It has a high conversion rate to testosterone and does not directly convert to estrogen. Since 4-adiol is short acting, I believe it can be used safely in women without causing much side effects or shut down pituitary production of the gonadotropins, if used infrequently. The only problem is that most 4-adiol products are made for men with 100 mg capsules, whereas doses for women should be anywhere form 10 to 50 mg. There are now available 12.5 mg lozenges of 4-adiol in the sublingual cyclodextrin form. Women could take 1/4 to 1/3 of a lozenge intermittently to raise their T levels.


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Conclusion

While traditional "female" hormones progesterone and estrogen may have a role in preventing heart disease, Alzheimer’s disease, and osteoporosis, I believe testosterone replacement therapy in the near future will have a much larger effect on women’s lives. In fact testosterone replacement therapy may soon become more widely practiced by women than men.

I also believe that testosterone and other androgens may have a critical role treating some types of female obesity - the estrogen dominant type. Precious little research has been done in this controversial area, but it is obvious that a major reason why women have more difficulty losing fat than men is due to their lower levels of testosterone. Since testosterone can not only help mobilize fat but also build muscle, women can attain higher resting metabolic rates. This is in stark comparison to most diet drugs that result in loss of muscle and usually the return of lost body fat once drug use is ceased. While androgens will obviously have some side effects in women, hence the controversy, however these side effects are likely less than the often life threatening effects of Phen-Fen and other diet drugs. Testosterone as a treatment for obesity is probably much safer and actually more effective in the long term than liposuction. I really hope more research is done in this area, as I believe androgens are crucial in the war against the rapidly evolving plague of obesity in this country.

I hope the medical establishment can soon move away from the concept of the ancient and antiquated model of male hormones are for men and female hormones only for women into a universal concept of optimum hormonal balance of all the sex hormones in both sexes. I really hope to see more studies on testosterone replacement therapy as testosterone becomes more accepted. As controversial as this is, the medical establishment is just as rigid in its approach to male hormone replacement therapy. I hope to help change this with my next article, which will deal with the controversial area of progesterone and estrogen replacement therapy for men.


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References
Espeland MA, et al. , Effect of postmenopausal hormone therapy on body weight and waist and hip girths., J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1997 May;82(5):1549-56.

Kaye SA, et al, Associations of body mass and fat distribution with sex hormone concentrations in postmenopausal women., J Epidemiol 1991 Mar;20(1):151-6

Laumann EO, et al, Sexual dysfunction in the United States: prevalence and predictors., JAMA 1999 Feb 10;281(6):537-44

Lovejoy, et al, Exogenous androgens influence body composition and regional body fat distribution in obese postmenopausal women—a clinical research center study, J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1996 Jun;81(6):2198-203

O'Sullivan AJ, et al.,The route of estrogen replacement therapy confers divergent effects on substrate oxidation and body composition in postmenopausal women. , J Clin Invest. 1998 Sep 1;102(5):1035-40.

Pasquali R, et al., The relative contribution of androgens and insulin in determining abdominal body fat distribution in premenopausal women., J Endocrinol Invest. 1991 Nov;14(10):839-46.

Stoll BA, Perimenopausal weight gain and progression of breast cancer precursors., Cancer Detect Prev 1999;23(1):31-6

Ullis,Karlis and Ptacek, Greg, Age Right, New York: Simon and Schuster,1999

Ullis, Karlis, Ptacek, Greg, and Shackman, Joshua, Super "T", New York: Fireside Books a division of Simon and Schuster. 1999

Yoo KY, et al, Female sex hormones and body mass in adolescent and postmenopausal Korean women., Korean Med Sci 1998 Jun;13(3):241-6

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[Mammon]

that last one is really good.

[lesnbek]

I am 31 so am not in menopause but because no Dr's believed me when i went in for 4 yrs in pain. My insides are totally messed up-I can no onger have children because of DR'S
Then i moved to Pa and was rushed to er because I passed out because of pain- the did operation and found my insides were all attached to my side by scar tissue and he couldnt believ i was able to walk at all. Every time i moved it ripped and pulled at my organs which were stuck together. A simple infection from having my daughter that could have been easily taken care of it Dr's would listen. I have had 2 operations since then because the scar tissue will always come back the pain is always there. They want me to have hysterectomy but say pain wont totally go away. Oh and to me a hysterectomy is no diff than getting my arm cut off

This is why I could care less waiting for a Dr to help me- Sorry to talk about these things but i dont just take deca for fibro

[lesnbek]

Oh Mammon i think it is finally starting to work-I woke up today feeling great and I dont ache as much- Oh it will be so wonderful to be able to have energy to work out.

People take for granted they have strength- my 9 yr old girl opened pepsi the other day that i could not open

[Phate]

Oh Mammon i think it is finally starting to work-I woke up today feeling great and I dont ache as much- Oh it will be so wonderful to be able to have energy to work out.

People take for granted they have strength- my 9 yr old girl opened pepsi the other day that i could not open

i understand, my mom's nerves in her hands are extremely atrophied and she has trouble just keeping a grip on a dumbell while lifting, she's in great shape(six pack at 50) but her hands are weak and it makes her so mad, she can't even ride motorcycles with us anymore because any vibration kills her hands

[lesnbek]

okay i am going to get my moms work out equipment out and ready- wish i could just go to gym but i have no clue what to do

[Phate]

okay i am going to get my moms work out equipment out and ready- wish i could just go to gym but i have no clue what to do

what do you mean, "no idea what to do", as in you don't know how to workout? if so post a thread with your stats and goals in the workout forum(i pic would be nice as well with your face edited so we can see what we are working with) and we'll help you design a program

[JiGGaMaN]

agree..

agree with me right? if not, your studies are in my favour against it anyhow.

[JiGGaMaN]

This is not just for fibro deca just helps with that. et me break it down a little. I did not go through puberty till i was 19 at all this is because my body does not produce testosterone and other hormones it needs. He took me off it because he was an idiot.

sigh, and is one of those hormones it needs deca by chance? im sure your doctor is brain dead.

[JiGGaMaN]

and one more thing for my colleagues who suggested that she go ahead with it: you dont even know how much she will be doing how often...

[Mammon]

she is doing 50mg deca a week right now

[Mammon]

Women do have testosterone in their bodies just not as much as men- this is why men want to have sex all the time-there is evidence that it increases quality of life to have test when you have test defiency. Steroids are sterotyped because people abuse them. They can have life altering positive side effects if used for the right reasons.

Guy goes to Dr saying he has no urge to make love and can get it up what do they do they find he has defiency or something and give him test or viagra

A woman has this problem and they r out of luck unless she finds a Dr who has experience in this.

jigga.. i was agreeing with lesnbek.. this statement

[JiGGaMaN]

jigga.. i was agreeing with lesnbek.. this statement

i think its fine but @ 50mg/wk is bumping her into mid-normal range for a man, not a woman. and its not doctor supervised. but even so, it doesnt take a genius to figure out if shes doing 50mg/wk and its 300mg/ml shes measuring out 1.6666667ml of deca (shes very accurate). i really really really dont advise recommending anabolics that arent approved for HRT use at a mans dosage for a woman who doesnt know what shes doing, but does so anyway even though her doctor pulled her off. this is a really bad idea.

[lesnbek]

Dr gave me test i am one who started deca. So I should just suffer Jigga

[*RAGE*]

dont mean to hijack but great read mammon..thanks I have a female family member that just started hrt, i understand it a lot more for females now...

[JiGGaMaN]

So I should just suffer Jigga

if you can provide me good reason as to why deca will help you, you have my blessing. Tell me the answers to these. You should already know them if you have done some sort of planning.

-how much deca do you plan on using per week

-how are you measuring 50mg in a 300mg/ml bottle

-how long do you plan on using it

-why did your doctor pull you off test?

-how do you know deca is the answer if you have never used it

-do you think your dose is appropriate for what you hope to accomplish?

-show me a study that says an androgen *at the dosage you are using* is appropriate for a woman.

[MMArmour]

holy shit.

[LATS60]

if you can provide me good reason as to why deca will help you, you have my blessing. Tell me the answers to these. You should already know them if you have done some sort of planning.

-how much deca do you plan on using per week

-how are you measuring 50mg in a 300mg/ml bottle

-how long do you plan on using it

-why did your doctor pull you off test?

-how do you know deca is the answer if you have never used it

-do you think your dose is appropriate for what you hope to accomplish?

-show me a study that says an androgen *at the dosage you are using* is appropriate for a woman.

Quick hijack (ish), Deca was invented specifically for the treatment of osteoperosis in post menopausal women @ 50mg per wk.
As lesnbek has a hormonal deficiency (although not in the menopause) i'd say it's not a bad idea.

[JiGGaMaN]

Quick hijack (ish), Deca was invented specifically for the treatment of osteoperosis in post menopausal women @ 50mg per wk.
As lesnbek has a hormonal deficiency (although not in the menopause) i'd say it's not a bad idea.

heres what wikipedia says...

Nandrolone decanoate is used in the treatment of osteoporosis in postmenopausal women (though now not recommended) at a dose of 50 mg every three weeks. It is also used for some aplastic anaemias.

[LATS60]

heres what wikipedia says...

Nandrolone decanoate is used in the treatment of osteoporosis in postmenopausal women (though now not recommended) at a dose of 50 mg every three weeks. It is also used for some aplastic anaemias.

My mistake jigga, thanks for that, every three weeks, not EW.

[JiGGaMaN]

My mistake jigga, thanks for that, every three weeks, not EW.

its ok. i dont think this woman is going to listen to anything i have to say, but if it makes the community in general more knowledgeable, then its worth it. it just wouldnt make sense to put a woman on a dose of androgen replacement that is significantly above physiological levels. progesterone and estrogen therapies should be attempted before considering an androgen. i know a few women on doctor supervised HRT: one is on 0.125mg of methyltestosterone per day and the other is on a test/progest/estrogen compound cream (test is again in microgram dosage). so anything in the mg per day dosage just doesnt seem reasonable, especially if the person doesnt have requisite knowledge on the subject. thats downright foolish.

[Strategus]

lesnbeck, I met a couple women who had fibromyalgia last year (two different people at different times). It's kind of mysterious but I saw that it really sapped their strength.

One woman was at a job assignment where she had to do some lifting, which was really a problem for her.

I asked each of them if they had found any good therapies for the fibro either traditional medical or natural stuff i.e. high doses of vitamins or ayurvedic or Chinese medicine etc. (no I didn't mention the subject of this board)

They really hadn't found anything, so I can understand your frustration! I didn't have anything really to suggest to these acquaintances, other than that they just start working out as best they could even if it was just walking. I also suggested that they try to get outdoor sunshine in moderate amounts.

How are you feeling after a couple weeks of the deca? I'm curious if it has helped the weakness from the fibro? Have you found a way to workout?

Do you have osteoporosis? I can see that being a risk with fibromyalgia, especially when the people who suffer from it have trouble doing weight-bearing exercise.

By the way, there is a women's forum here. You can go to the New Members' section and introduce yourself and then you can get your name in Pink, and have access to women's info.

Interesting references Mammon.

Jigga I believe you meant that she needs 0.1666667 ml of the 300 mg/ml deca, and NOT 1.667 ml! That 0 and the decimal point in front are important by an order of magnitude!!!! If you're going to insist on telling her what to do, at least get your numbers accurate!

i think its fine but @ 50mg/wk is bumping her into mid-normal range for a man, not a woman. and its not doctor supervised. but even so, it doesnt take a genius to figure out if shes doing 50mg/wk and its 300mg/ml shes measuring out 1.6666667ml of deca (shes very accurate). i really really really dont advise recommending anabolics that arent approved for HRT use at a mans dosage for a woman who doesnt know what shes doing, but does so anyway even though her doctor pulled her off. this is a really bad idea.

[JiGGaMaN]

lesnbeck, I met a couple women who had fibromyalgia last year (two different people at different times). It's kind of mysterious but I saw that it really sapped their strength.

One woman was at a job assignment where she had to do some lifting, which was really a problem for her.

I asked each of them if they had found any good therapies for the fibro either traditional medical or natural stuff i.e. high doses of vitamins or ayurvedic or Chinese medicine etc. (no I didn't mention the subject of this board)

They really hadn't found anything, so I can understand your frustration! I didn't have anything really to suggest to these acquaintances, other than that they just start working out as best they could even if it was just walking. I also suggested that they try to get outdoor sunshine in moderate amounts.

How are you feeling after a couple weeks of the deca? I'm curious if it has helped the weakness from the fibro? Have you found a way to workout?

Do you have osteoporosis? I can see that being a risk with fibromyalgia, especially when the people who suffer from it have trouble doing weight-bearing exercise.

By the way, there is a women's forum here. You can go to the New Members' section and introduce yourself and then you can get your name in Pink, and have access to women's info.

Interesting references Mammon.

Jigga I believe you meant that she needs 0.1666667 ml of the 300 mg/ml deca, and NOT 1.667 ml! That 0 and the decimal point in front are important by an order of magnitude!!!! If you're going to insist on telling her what to do, at least get your numbers accurate!

i realized that after, please understand it was a typo. my point was its a dosage that cant be measured out accurately, therefore shes lying. but, shes not going to be back on this thread anyhow so i neglected to edit the post.

[KatsMeow]

I have fibromyalgia as well and I have for a few years now, I take SSRI's in order to help manage the pain but it happens to completely KILL your libido. I am considering taking 200mgs of cyp every other week, that's what my doctor and some other women i know take in order to increase libido. But you really should have your levels monitored by your gynecologist.

[JiGGaMaN]

I have fibromyalgia as well and I have for a few years now, I take SSRI's in order to help manage the pain but it happens to completely KILL your libido. I am considering taking 200mgs of cyp every other week, that's what my doctor and some other women i know take in order to increase libido. But you really should have your levels monitored by your gynecologist.

thats the dosage im on... jesus christ.

[KatsMeow]

thats the dosage im on... jesus christ.

you only take 200mg once every 2 weeks?

[JiGGaMaN]

you only take 200mg once every 2 weeks?

100 per week.

[KatsMeow]

100 per week.

Hmmm Interesting.