So I picked up some Test Prop and Tren ace. I have been training for 2 years and I'm

[ss2mike]

So I picked up some Test Prop and Tren ace. I have been training for 2 years and I'm OBSESSED. I take it very seriously and I would love for you guys to help educate me as I have done research myself. I am 6 ft, 228 lbs 21 years old and am currently cutting. Everyone at my gym at Bev Francis powerhouse gym says I'd be ridiculous if I went on gear, considering my size already.

I would like to know how my doses should be with the Tren ace and Test Prop. I was also given clen, butI feel that might be unnecessary.

I would like to do the Tren for about 6-8 weeks with test prop for 10 weeks. I am looking for a normal to weak dose of these with seeing some good gains, but less harsh sides (considering the short time period of Tren) Does anyone have any recommendations for the pct, when to start it etc. Thanks so much in advance for the help, as I would like to do this the safest way possible.

*cutting, and gaining some more mass if possible- diet is pretty much spot on, low carb high protein

[ss2mike]

I am recently being told to just do the test prop to see how my body reacts? Anyone agree? So excited yet so nervous! Cannot wait!

[nicolas316]

i would recommand test enanthate because you won't get tren cough and that is pritty harsh! Tren enanthate is a good dose from 300mg EW and with that come the test put it EOD or ED.

[ss2mike]

is tren cough THAT bad? I heard the stuff works wonders though?

[Sledgehammer1]

In my personal opinion 21 is way to young to try gear, never mind one of the most potent of them. Whats your Pct plan? At your age, test levels are naturally at the highest they will ever be, meaning u can still get 4 more yrs of good gains. Your growth plates are still not done growing, and you could risk stunting development. With that said, if ur mind is already made up, go with a test only cycle and hold off on the tren. Cutting comes from diet and cardio. Do some more research, whats the rush. Good luck.

[Ferdinand]

You a big guy with a solid base, you should worrie about losing the fat with diet and cardio and lay of the gear until you get a bit older.

[ss2mike]

Really? I have a friend who is only 19 who did a deca test stack and got off it and he seems to be fine with no problems. It's just so tempting! Just trying to keep as much muscle and shred. If tren is too harsh even in light doses, i guess the test prop only would be the best solution? THanks for the advice guys, and if u have any PCT to recommend that would be great. You guys are a great help!

[D7M]

21 is way to young.

Is it really worth the risks?

And to be honest, if you cut some BF you would look a lot bigger.

[zaneisgreat]

If you insist on jumping into the upper tiers of cycling right away, then i would suggest going for your prop only cycle. Pin every day and rotate between at least 8 sites. This will help prepare you for more advanced cycles as pinning a lot of gear, especially tren, infrequently is a terrible practice.

Prop pain for some is pretty bad so it might also help prepare you for some painful, debilitating injections. More advanced cycles with more than one androgen and UGL gear are typically more painful than the prop you are going to shoot... so also consider cutting your prop with sterile oil so you can get used to injecting high volumes of gear.

But before anything, I would get your diet in check. You are looking really soft and not particularly impressive brah, don't care what your friends say. Test-prop is the best choice to prevent bloating but it won't do much to reduce bodyfat. Check the diet.

Also, T-prop only shouldn't be too harsh. Throwing the clen in a couple weeks after your first pin wouldn't be a bad idea if you could drop some bodyfat before your cycle.

[Hard.On]

are those guys at bev francis gym the one selling you your gear?

[AlphaMaleDawg]

21 isn't THAT young. I mean, it is, but whatever, if you really want to do a cycle, I would suggest just using the test prop you have. Save the tren for a few cycles down the road

I mean I still say you should cut that on your own with a smart diet strategy, but thats my advice if you are going to do it anyway

[Knockout_Power]

are those guys at bev francis gym the one selling you your gear?

that was my first thought...

anyways, please stay away from doing a heavy cycle (Tren inclusive) until you are much more experienced and understand how your body will react. Going by your pics, you are a larger build person which is good, but the pics also show that your diet is definately not where it should be. I would guess you are between 17 to 19% BF and thats too high to cycle, it only increases the chance of sides.

If you were to run a cycle, just test the first time around. You dont now how you will react to each of the compounds so if you encounter a problem or bad side effect you wont know which compound caused it.

Just run the prop, but as a first time, I would recommend a longer Ester as some people dont like pinning so often on a first cycle.

Cons for this cycle...

1) most will agree you are too young
2) Your bodyfat is clearly too high
3) Tren is too aggressive for a first timer
4) I see no mention of your proposed PCT and this is where the biggest problems will arise

[Phate]

So I picked up some Test Prop and Tren ace. I have been training for 2 years and I'm OBSESSED.2 years? i trained for 5 years with proper diet before i even tried anavar, much less tren, give your body time, btw, why are you purposefully blocking the rest of your body and only showing your arms, it looks to me like you are close to 18%bf, which would generate additional problems on cycle(i will extrapolate on this if you like) I take it very seriously and I would love for you guys to help educate me as I have done research myself. I am 6 ft, 228 lbs 21 years old and am currently cutting. Everyone at my gym at Bev Francis powerhouse gym says I'd be ridiculous if I went on gear, considering my size already.
and you probably would, at least the ridiculous part, if they are recommending tren at your age and for a first cycle they have no clue about what they are talking about
I would like to know how my doses should be with the Tren ace and Test Prop. I was also given clen, butI feel that might be unnecessary.
why not try running clen by itself with cardio, if you think your diet is on point(btw, i would like to see it) then you should be able to cut down with just clen and cardio
I would like to do the Tren for about 6-8 weeks with test prop for 10 weeks. I am looking for a normal to weak dose of these with seeing some good gains, but less harsh sides (considering the short time period of Tren) Does anyone have any recommendations for the pct, when to start it etc. Thanks so much in advance for the help, as I would like to do this the safest way possible.

*cutting, and gaining some more mass if possible- diet is pretty much spot on, low carb high protein

i don't mean to sound like a dick, but i'm laying it out for you straight bro btw, other comments in bold^^^^

[D_iamond]

ok dude you should start your pct the day after your cycle ends with nolvadex at 20mg every day in my opinion it is a good idea for the last two weels of your cycle start using arimidex to lower your estrogen this makes pct go alot better... and wait on the tren while in some cases it may cause problems over a longer peroid of use it is usauly fine in smaller doses for shorter cycles but there is no reason you would need it on your first cycle your gains are gonna be HUGE just use around 500- 600 mg of test per week also def use the clen because with your bodyfat that high you will be getting gyno! you are not in the shape you need to be for steroid use i know that you are still going to do it tho so my only other thing to say would maybe be diet for 6 weeks with the clen until you start your test cyle

[D_iamond]

i agree with phate your BF is closer to 22% at least

[Phate]

ok dude you should start your pct the day after your cycle ends with nolvadex at 20mg every day in my opinion it is a good idea for the last two weels of your cycle start using arimidex to lower your estrogen this makes pct go alot better... and wait on the tren while in some cases it may cause problems over a longer peroid of use it is usauly fine in smaller doses for shorter cycles but there is no reason you would need it on your first cycle your gains are gonna be HUGE just use around 500- 600 mg of test per week also def use the clen because with your bodyfat that high you will be getting gyno! you are not in the shape you need to be for steroid use i know that you are still going to do it tho so my only other thing to say would maybe be diet for 6 weeks with the clen until you start your test cyle

You want him to pct with only nolvadex at 20mg? not a good idea

Explain to me how clen will help with gyno?

i like the last part about cutting down first, but why assume he will use? he sounds like a logical person and i'm sure he will listen to reason provided we supply ample evidence that he shouldn't cycle yet

[Tyler694]

ok dude you should start your pct the day after your cycle ends ...

Isn't PCT start time after prop 3 days? Not the next day?

Explain to me how clen will help with gyno? ...

I think he meant it more indirectly.. As in, use the clen to drop body fat as quickly as possible, because (generally) the more body fat you have, the more gyno prone.

[ss2mike]

Thank you for all the relplies, body fat is a little high, that was a worry of mine. And no the guys at powerhouse weren't even trying to sell me it was through someone else, through a friend of a friend. So I should save all the gear until more bodyfat is lost? Or just use the clen? Does clen require Pct, hard on liver , and what is common dosage. Thanks again guys for the help. And Phate, concstructive critisism is always a good thing!

[Hard.On]

Im soo tired of Some kid posting that he wants to do a cycle.
He disappears.
About 20-30 posts usually come up before he returns.

90% of them are information that stupid newbs put up that are all totally wrong.

NEWBS: DO NOT POST UP INFO WHEN YOU DONT KNOW SH!T

[Hard.On]

Thank you for all the relplies, body fat is a little high, that was a worry of mine. And no the guys at powerhouse weren't even trying to sell me it was through someone else, through a friend of a friend. So I should save all the gear until more bodyfat is lost? Or just use the clen? Does clen require Pct, hard on liver , and what is common dosage. Thanks again guys for the help. And Phate, concstructive critisism is always a good thing!

Good man,
you have taken the right advice.
Save the gear
Diet (goto diet section)

You dont need clen either. If I were you I would go natural for a few more years. Usually guys come onto this site and are 145 lbs wanting to do AAS. You are already 10x ahead of all of them.

You built a mountain. now just carve it

[ss2mike]

on the bottle it says it expires 2012 for the tren and 2014 for the test so i guess the shelf life is pretty decent if thats true, its stored in a cool dry area. Ahhh it is so tempting though, but if you guys say get the body fat lower than start messing with gear, ill take your work for it. Health over my money spent on this stuff anyday! Thanks for all the replies guys!

[Hard.On]

try and sell it to someone who can use it. (and not one of ur 21 yr old friends)
You dont want it sitting around like that. Because you will most likly just end up taking it one day.

[ss2mike]

But since I am trying to cut up wouldn't the tren really help a lot? or are the side effect THAT harsh? This is the article that was leaning me towards using:

http://www.silownia.net/steroids/a/12221

scroll down to the stacks and doses section, I would want to do something like that- when I'm ready

[Knockout_Power]

Forget Tren, Test or even Clen... read this thread, a bro of mine did this with diet learned on this forums diet section and training with me. I had orginally told him when he wanted to cycle that I would get him gear if he did the first part naturally. After 6 months he looked great and didnt even bother cycling after that.

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=390580

[Hard.On]

those websites are just trying to sell you stuff.
They dont give a shit about your well being

[Phate]

on the bottle it says it expires 2012 for the tren and 2014 for the test so i guess the shelf life is pretty decent if thats true, its stored in a cool dry area. Ahhh it is so tempting though, but if you guys say get the body fat lower than start messing with gear, ill take your work for it. Health over my money spent on this stuff anyday! Thanks for all the replies guys!

i like the attitude, i would sell it if it's going to be that much of a temptation, to help you cut a good ECY stack would do wonders with your appetite and you can run it over 26 weeks with no dimished results, great stack for cutting IMO

But since I am trying to cut up wouldn't the tren really help a lot? or are the side effect THAT harsh? This is the article that was leaning me towards using:

http://www.silownia.net/steroids/a/12221

scroll down to the stacks and doses section, I would want to do something like that- when I'm ready

Here's the part you are referring to with my comments in bold

I like Tren and I like d-bol and especially for a shorty. YES NEWBIE you can use these strong androgens and NO Tren is not hard on the kidneys(myth).
while he is right that tren anabolizes best with higher estrogen levels, thus dbol would be a good addition, recommending a 19-nor for a first cycle is ridiculous(did you know a single 100mg injection of Deca will COMPLETELY shut down testosterone production for up to a month
Some guys think I am nuts for recommending Tren for a first cycle and they say it is too harsh.... but most of the same bro's will recommend a long cycle of test/d-bol for a newbie and I can assure you that a long cycle of test/d-bol is going to give you more sides than a shorty with Tren and d-bol. Bro's test is just as "harsh" as Tren and it causes a good deal of water retention, with resultant increase in BP(bad in some bro's) unless you use an estrogen inhibitor....and shit test/d-bol stacks are WAY "harsher" than Tren.
Untrue, if you compare the androgenic/anabolic ratio of test to tren, test is 100/100(the baseline by which all other steroids are compared) while tren is 500/500, in comparing shutdown potential, 19nor derivatives like tren and deca will shutdown testosterone production much more than testosterone, as for comparison of side effects, tren can cause insomnia, night sweating, chronic cough, aggression, etc..., much more harsh than tesosterone
The only issue with Tren is the frequent injecting required.....but I know some of you newbies have been researching for a long time and are fine with the idea of frequent injections(they aren't that bad!)

even here he is wrong, testosterone suspension must be injected 2-3x a day, test prop ed or eod, etc... it depends on the ester, and since tren can be found with the acetate ester(similar to prop), enanthate ester, and hydroxycarbonate ester, there are many choices to be compared

Novice... TREN/D-BOL.... Tren 50mg/day for 4 weeks and d-bol 30mg/day in 4 divided doses per day(one right before bed) for 4 weeks.
Two days after last Tren do Clomid at 200-300mg on day one in divided doses and then 50-100mg/day for a week and then 50mg a day for 3 more weeks. OR...Nolva at 80mg on day one in divided doses followed by 40mg/day for a week and then 20mg/day for 3 more weeks.
Have nolva or Clomid on hand for gyno protection.
Doses of clomid over 100mg have been shown to not only be pointless, but can cause problems in vision, not to mention clomid by itself is not near enough pct for a tren cycle

[ss2mike]

Yea come to think of it, that site does have a lot of advertising. And Knockout power, besides ur avatar being absolutely gorgeous, your find looks awesome, a real good transformation. But really, no just clen? Any reason for that, or is it because it is just not necessary yet?

[Knockout_Power]

I wouldnt bother, there are sides from Clen as well. The cramps can get nasty and some get a real anxiety problem on it as well. Always best to do without. Diet and training are 90% of this game. AAS is used to break through natural plateaus. Yes I know most people use it well before that point, but it is definately not to be used to start "proper" training.

[ss2mike]

Phate:

I was referring to the one under that, it says novice tren/test prop. But forget it, I think I am gonna hold off on this. According to you guys, im just not ready yet. Ey, I got my whole life ahead of me, no need to rush haha, and who knows I may not even want to like knock out said!

[Knockout_Power]

who knows I may not even want to

cant argue with that reasoning... not too many side effects from doing things naturally

[PK-V]

didn't read much above

but dont run tren and prop together for your 1st cycle


go prop for 8 wks

and grab and ai for on cycle and a serm for pct

you can throw in some clen during pct for the anti-catabolic effects as well as letting you eat more with out sacrificing bf

[AlphaMaleDawg]

op is a smart guy. You will have an incredible physique with the EC stack and a great cutting diet

[ss2mike]

PK- So just run the Prop and I should save alot of muscle of even have gains while cutting? I'm so excited you don't even understand! oh and obv the PCT

AlphaMaleDawg...who is OP that you are referring to?

EDIT: btw AMD your physique looks awesome, sort of the goal im looking for!

[Hard.On]

you are the OP.
You had the right Idea when you said you were not going to cycle

[Hard.On]

didn't read much above

but dont run tren and prop together for your 1st cycle


go prop for 8 wks

and grab and ai for on cycle and a serm for pct

you can throw in some clen during pct for the anti-catabolic effects as well as letting you eat more with out sacrificing bf

PK-V - You are an Idiot
Stop parroting Advice
(for the new guy parroting refers to someone who rewrites advice he saw people recommend to other members)

[ss2mike]

oh sorry lol. I'm guessing original poster? anyway yea I dont think I will start anything until i lose a larger percent of bodyfat, and if i do wanna cycle i would probably just do the test prop. Thanks so much guys for all your help!

[PK-V]

PK-V - You are an Idiot
Stop parroting Advice
(for the new guy parroting refers to someone who rewrites advice he saw people recommend to other members)

haters gonna hate

no copy pasta there brother just common sense if the guy is gonna use anyway why not help him out

he has the prop and clen on hand
I just posted up the way it should be done

assuming everything else is taken care of

the guy is not 12

[Phate]

haters gonna hate

no copy pasta there brother just common sense if the guy is gonna use anyway why not help him out

he has the prop and clen on hand
I just posted up the way it should be done

assuming everything else is taken care of

the guy is not 12

but he wasn't going to cycle, i know you said that you didn't read much above in his post, so why post at all if you aren't going to read what has been written so you can fully assess the situation and make an educated statement

stuff like this pisses me off more than anything, people treat this like a damn game, if you give someone bad advice and they take it you are fvcking with their life, so either take the time to read or don't post

[Hard.On]

haters gonna hate

no copy pasta there brother just common sense if the guy is gonna use anyway why not help him out

he has the prop and clen on hand
I just posted up the way it should be done

assuming everything else is taken care of

the guy is not 12

Haters gonna Hate
HOW the f*** does that apply to this situation

You dont look at the big picture.

I would like someone to give this stupid moron PK-V a medal for knowing how a cycle should be set up with prop and clen.

You are an asset to this forum PK-V

[ss2mike]

Got great advice from a steroid user at my gym. He said don't do anything as I have great potential, and if I want do it 2-3 years from now after strict dieting. Just like some of you said. Thanks to all who have helped me with this, it's like a weight off my shoulders!