Is there a body fat % rule?

[Farbeyondriven]

36 years old
6.0 tall
225 lbs (was 273 back in jan 2010)
25% bf acording to bio scale (walmart brand)
was wondering if there is a rule of thumb on bf before you cycle? Ive seen it mentioned by members in posts. Ive been stalled out on fat loss for a while now and ready to take the plunge. Trained off and on over the years but solid for the last 12 mon.

[SlimmerMe]

15% BF is what I understand before a cycle...or as close to it...maybe up to 18% at the most...but BUMP!

[Farbeyondriven]

so would it be a dangerous thing or a not gonna get as much out of the cycle thing?

[floyderoid]

these guys(and girls) are going to tell you 15% and under. also if you get in the diet section and post up your diet you can get these guys to critique it. also if you still need some help shedding fat you can always try ephedra/caffeine stack, clenbuterol, or albuterol

[SlimmerMe]

I am not sure about "dangerous" but could lead to things like gyno or other things...and the mantra around here is diet and cardio ...I know...not what you wanted to hear but true....

[floyderoid]

so would it be a dangerous thing or a not gonna get as much out of the cycle thing?

much less chance of estrogen related side effects

[Bigdog99]

I run gear at over 15% (against everyones advice). I am not going to tell you it is ok to do.....but I can tell you I have had zero issues, in fact the results I have been seeing are nothing short of remarkable. People say increased sides, gyno, higher BP etc etc....but I have not seen any of it after 4 cycles. Sorry people may blast me for writing this...but it is true. Just remember everyone if different.....

[Ashop]

Some guys will say not to start a cycle until BF is at least 15% or under. I disagree.
If you train right,,eat right,,cardio,,,your going to lose BF% at a faster rate then all
natural.

[Farbeyondriven]

man thats what i like...answers. Hey big dog if you dont mind whats your bf% and what was your first cycle?

[Farbeyondriven]

Some guys will say not to start a cycle until BF is at least 15% or under. I disagree.
If you train right,,eat right,,cardio,,,your going to lose BF% at a faster rate then all
natural.

thats what im hoping for but nothing is set in stone yet, still planning.

[Natureboy71]

I run gear at over 15% (against everyones advice). I am not going to tell you it is ok to do.....but I can tell you I have had zero issues, in fact the results I have been seeing are nothing short of remarkable. People say increased sides, gyno, higher BP etc etc....but I have not seen any of it after 4 cycles. Sorry people may blast me for writing this...but it is true. Just remember everyone if different.....

I have had the exact same experience.

[D7M]

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...highlight=gyno


^^There's your answer.

Pay attention to posts 10 and 11

[Bigdog99]

man thats what i like...answers. Hey big dog if you dont mind whats your bf% and what was your first cycle?

Well that is me in my avy....as you can see I am not fat but not cut up either, but I am a big guy (and always have been)....my best estimate is that I am ~ 21 or 22% (6'4 currently 296) although it could be more as I never got it offically measured. I was prob well over 30% when I started my first cycle.....which was just 500 mg of Test Cyp per week for 12 weeks.

[40plusnewbie]

much less chance of estrogen related side effects

That's what AI's are for bro.

[40plusnewbie]

thats what im hoping for but nothing is set in stone yet, still planning.

The way I see it is that it's a reasonable rule of thumb, that on average a fatter person is going to have underlying health risks greater than a lean person (I'm over 20% bf and running 3 steroids and 2 peptides) but my bp is 108/66, I bet a lot of guys younger than me and leaner than me have higher bp than that. My cholesterol is 136 and I am positive that a lot of younger guys and leaner guys have a worse lipid panel than I do because you can't get much better than mine. The risk of gyno is def greater on average, I've probably taken letro on 8 days in the past month as a precaution. My friend who is running just test cyp along with me (i'm using anavar and tren as well) just told me today his nipples started sticking out a bit last night, he's like 6% bf so I'm bringing him some letro tomorrow.

A lot of older, very experienced members (mods, vets, admin, etc) understand the underlying issues that are correlated to higher bf and advise against it for those reasons. A lot of younger members IMHO parrot what they hear "the rule" is without the insight that the very experienced have.

Higher bf= also more likely on average to eat poorly that leads to heath risks, where very few to almost zero people who have trained for 4-5 years, have shown nice gains without steroids, and have a lower than 15% bf are eating wrong, and ones nutritional intake is key in building muscle.

[40plusnewbie]

Well that is me in my avy....as you can see I am not fat but not cut up either, but I am a big guy (and always have been)....my best estimate is that I am ~ 21 or 22% (6'4 currently 296) although it could be more as I never got it offically measured. I was prob well over 30% when I started my first cycle.....which was just 500 mg of Test Cyp per week for 12 weeks.

I'm 6'2" and 262.5lbs as of today, I also have broader shoulders than you. My upper body is def more muscular than yours. My bf is around 21 or 22%, it looks like to me (I might suck at estimating bf%'s) that your on the wrong side of 25% bf although it would be easier to estimate if you had your shirt off and tight shorts on. I'm basing my guess on the roundness of your face as I can not see through your shirt so I could be off for that reason. Not meaning to diss you bro, we are both def on the wrong side of 15% and a few years ago I was on the wrong side of 40% lol

[SlimmerMe]

so what is the answer? is it the amount of estrogen no matter the BF?

[OldManRiver]

No offense Big Dog, but I'm 6'4 245 around 14-18% bf now and to me your avi and stats say you are around 25-30%. the biggest problem I can see with people using aas at a higher bf% is adding MORE fat during a cycle with the dangerous sides. You see, if body fat is high before hand the train of thought is that the diet is off to begin with, and without solving that issue first, you can potentially cause more harm on your body than benefit. If you eat the same as you do on cycle as you do off (this is for people with high bf%) your gonna pay for it in the long run... Just my .02....

[Bigdog99]

I'm 6'2" and 262.5lbs as of today, I also have broader shoulders than you. My upper body is def more muscular than yours. My bf is around 21 or 22%, it looks like to me (I might suck at estimating bf%'s) that your on the wrong side of 25% bf although it would be easier to estimate if you had your shirt off and tight shorts on. I'm basing my guess on the roundness of your face as I can not see through your shirt so I could be off for that reason. Not meaning to diss you bro, we are both def on the wrong side of 15% and a few years ago I was on the wrong side of 40% lol

No worries...you might be right...as I said I never had it offically measured. However That pic is over a month old and I have lost a fair amount of fat since then (weight stayed the same while on cycle/doing clen-T3/got stronger etc). Had to buy new pants today. You must have huge shoulders b/c mine are pretty darn wide. I have actually lost 82 lbs over the past 3 years. I was a mess and totally let myself go. BTW...good post on the before this one. I agree 100%

[40plusnewbie]

No worries...you might be right...as I said I never had it offically measured. However That pic is over a month old and I have lost a fair amount of fat since then (weight stayed the same while on cycle/doing clen-T3/got stronger etc). Had to buy new pants today. You must have huge shoulders b/c mine are pretty darn wide. I have actually lost 82 lbs over the past 3 years. I was a mess and totally let myself go. BTW...good post on the before this one. I agree 100%

Well my shoulder muscles are def not fully developed, I've got a long way to go to get the body I want. But my bone structure just puts my shoulders very wide. I also have 11"EEEEE shoe size (very wide feet). So my shoulders are not huge, but if I stay on track they will be. I'm not looking to blow up huge, I'm looking to continue to recomp my body to something like Natureboy71's ativar (he posted in this thread) around that ammt of musculature although my frame is different than his. There is another guy's ativar, forget who, the guy's abs are tight but grown out, that is pretty much the body I am looking to manufacture with weights, food, and steroids. Genetically I have a very high % of fast twitching muscles and very low % of slow twitching muscles so it is easier for me to get bigger muscles than some other people who have more slow twitching muscles- bodies designed get muscle endurance more than musculature hypertrophy. People who have a very high % of fast twitching muscles are genetically predisposed to be able to grow big muscles for power/strength vs. guys who have more slow twitching muscles- bodies designed to run marathons, muscle endurance.

[Farbeyondriven]

damm, my brain hurts after reading that link, but good stuff.

[tembe]

those scales suck as well... so inaccurate

tell me im like 30% bf

[Farbeyondriven]

those scales suck as well... so inaccurate

tell me im like 30% bf

I have been wondering about that too. It seems to wander 4% or so depending on time of day and water consumed.

[40plusnewbie]

You see, if body fat is high before hand the train of thought is that the diet is off to begin with, and without solving that issue first, you can potentially cause more harm on your body than benefit. If you eat the same as you do on cycle as you do off (this is for people with high bf%) your gonna pay for it in the long run... Just my .02....

And what will happen if I eat less carbs and stuff my gullet with 500g of protein per day?

[SlimmerMe]

Well my shoulder muscles are def not fully developed, I've got a long way to go to get the body I want. But my bone structure just puts my shoulders very wide. I also have 11"EEEEE shoe size (very wide feet). So my shoulders are not huge, but if I stay on track they will be. I'm not looking to blow up huge, I'm looking to continue to recomp my body to something like Natureboy71's ativar (he posted in this thread) around that ammt of musculature although my frame is different than his. There is another guy's ativar, forget who, the guy's abs are tight but grown out, that is pretty much the body I am looking to manufacture with weights, food, and steroids. Genetically I have a very high % of fast twitching muscles and very low % of slow twitching muscles so it is easier for me to get bigger muscles than some other people who have more slow twitching muscles- bodies designed get muscle endurance more than musculature hypertrophy. People who have a very high % of fast twitching muscles are genetically predisposed to be able to grow big muscles for power/strength vs. guys who have more slow twitching muscles- bodies designed to run marathons, muscle endurance.

Twitching muscles? And how would one know is fast twitching or slow? Please elaborate..this is interesting to hear the difference as related to genetics and results...

[Swifto]

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...highlight=gyno


^^There's your answer.

Pay attention to posts 10 and 11

Although I agree that genetic pre-deposition is solely responsible for being gyno prone, or not.

Adipose tissue is the primary source of aromotase. It account for around 60-70% of net aromotase. So its going to have an impact.

That said...

I have cycled over 20% before. 25-30% is getting too high IMO. But AAS and exogenous testosterone will increase fat oxidation, increase LBM, reduce fat mass, enhance lipolysis (fat release). Androgens also inhibit the differentiation of adipocyte precursor cells and increase GH (more fat burning).

There is nothing wrong with using testosterone as a tool FOR cutting IMHO.

And for all those idiot's saying you can only burn fat by diet and cardio. There are tons (dont make me post them) or studies confirming what I have just written 2 paragraphs up even in an UNTRAINED state.

[40plusnewbie]

Twitching muscles? And how would one know is fast twitching or slow? Please elaborate..this is interesting to hear the difference as related to genetics and results...

Everyone has both fast and slow twitching muscles. You might have mostly fast twiching muscles in your legs, glutes, arms, shoulders, back, and have a majority of slow twitching muscles in your abs.

The way to find out is to do weighted lifts isolated to a particular muscle. Take biceps. What you do is figure out what your max 1 rep for an isolated curl is, then take like 80% of that weight and see how many reps you can do. If you can do like 4-5 or so then your biceps are made up mostly of fast twitching muscles (which means they are predisposed to growth). If you take 80% of what your max 1 rep lift is though and you can do like 8 or so reps with that then that muscle group has a much larger % of slow twitching muscles (muscles predisposed to endurance moso than strength and growth). [ and on average the max 1 rep weight ammt is going to be lower for the person with predominantly slow twitching muscles compared to someone predisposed to developing the build of a body builder (at least with their biceps in this case).

Here is a random article, I haven't read it, just googled for it:

http://sportsmedicine.about.com/od/a...eFiberType.htm

[SlimmerMe]

^^^Fascinating. Learn something new everyday! Thanks 40plusnewbie

[Far from massive]

While that test has been thrown around on the internet for years and is great since its free and semipainless, in my opinion a needle biopsy is a lot more accurate measure. The max and reps method is very dependent on a number of factors other than fast vs slow twitch ratios.