** HIIT vs Interval Training **

[baseline_9]

Ok guys

Im posting this thread because every time I see someone who posts up thinking they are doing a HIIT session I find myself having to explain what IMO 'Real HIIT' actually is.

One thing i will say is that u need a good interval timer to do HIIT. The 'Gym Boss' is great, if anyone want to ask me about it I will explain i etc..

An example of a Interval Training Session

5 min warm up at 50% effort

60 secconds at 70% effort
60 secconds at 90% effort

repeat 10-15 times



An example of a HIIT Session

5 min warm up at 50% effort
Stretch out, re-warm

10/15 seconds at 100% effort (Hill Sprints or Normal Sprints,, this cannot be done on a treadmill or any piece of gym equipment IMO)
60/90 seconds at 0-20% effort (stand still or walk back down hill etc..)

repeat 10-15 times if you can.


Ok now you can clearly see the difference between the two types of training


'Real HIIT' Training is hardcore, it is balls to the wall, you will never experience anything like it...

After one sprint u will feel great and think its piss easy

After 3 ur CV system will start to lag behind, but still no big deal, just a little burn in the lungs and ur throat will start to dry out

After 6 your legs will feel like u have done a 100 rep set of squats, ur mouth will begin to drewl uncontrably, you spit will become like battory acid

After 8 you will want to go home, you will have little left in ur legs, every step feels like a blow tourch on ur quads, ur lungs will be on fire and almost in pain, your nose will now be running like ur mouth... Hey this is wher it gets fun tho...Rite?

Getting to 10 is hard, verry hard, most will quit...

You can see the trend here, you are basically taking your cardio system and ur muscles to failure, over and over again, you do not get time to re-compose ur self, your cardio system will be left behind, your muslce will be going to near failure over and over again..

You will find it hard to even walk back down the hill, your legs will be buckling underneath ur weight..

After you have done ur session and get home ur lungs will be burning, you will pant for a fair bit of time, your heart rate will be elevated, your throat will be sore, your legs will feel like jelly...

Did I hear someone say EPOC?



So guys, u think ur doing 'Real HIIT'? Think again!

[Calcium]

Cool, thanks for the explanation

[FireGuy]

Ok guys

Im posting this thread because every time I see someone who posts up thinking they are doing a HIIT session I find myself having to explain what IMO 'Real HIIT' actually is.

One thing i will say is that u need a good interval timer to do HIIT. The 'Gym Boss' is great, if anyone want to ask me about it I will explain i etc..

An example of a Interval Training Session

5 min warm up at 50% effort

60 secconds at 70% effort
60 secconds at 90% effort

repeat 10-15 times



An example of a HIIT Session

5 min warm up at 50% effort
Stretch out, re-warm

10/15 seconds at 100% effort (Hill Sprints or Normal Sprints,, this cannot be done on a treadmill or any piece of gym equipment IMO)
60/90 seconds at 0-20% effort (stand still or walk back down hill etc..)

repeat 10-15 times if you can.


Ok now you can clearly see the difference between the two types of training


'Real HIIT' Training is hardcore, it is balls to the wall, you will never experience anything like it...

After one sprint u will feel great and think its piss easy

After 3 ur CV system will start to lag behind, but still no big deal, just a little burn in the lungs and ur throat will start to dry out

After 6 your legs will feel like u have done a 100 rep set of squats, ur mouth will begin to drewl uncontrably, you spit will become like battory acid

After 8 you will want to go home, you will have little left in ur legs, every step feels like a blow tourch on ur quads, ur lungs will be on fire and almost in pain, your nose will now be running like ur mouth... Hey this is wher it gets fun tho...Rite?

Getting to 10 is hard, verry hard, most will quit...

You can see the trend here, you are basically taking your cardio system and ur muscles to failure, over and over again, you do not get time to re-compose ur self, your cardio system will be left behind, your muslce will be going to near failure over and over again..

You will find it hard to even walk back down the hill, your legs will be buckling underneath ur weight..

After you have done ur session and get home ur lungs will be burning, you will pant for a fair bit of time, your heart rate will be elevated, your throat will be sore, your legs will feel like jelly...

Did I hear someone say EPOC?



So guys, u think ur doing 'Real HIIT'? Think again!

Try no hands level 20 on the stairmill (not stairmaster) for the high intensity portion and let me know if you change your mind.

[baseline_9]

The thing with this style that I have used and consider to be the real deal i that u need to get up to 100% effort straight away, stay at 100% for the duration (10-15 secs) and then rest for the rest period as quickly as possible.

I dont think this is safe on a machine IMO

FG u shud try what im talking about one day, wen ur supose to train legs do this instead, find a hill, get a gym boss, i promise u will not be dissapointed

[FireGuy]

^^Oh, I dont doubt it, it sounds like a lung crusher.

[baseline_9]

^^Oh, I dont doubt it, it sounds like a lung crusher.

Once u get to a certian point its all mental, like high rep squats really...

Only the strong headed will survive LOL

[gbrice75]

Only the strong headed will survive LOL

Guess i'm out, lol!

[t-gunz]

^^ he said strong head. not fat head :P

:ha:

[Twist]

I like to put the treadmill to top speed (usually 12) and without using my hands or arms in anyway, try to push with my chest against the bar in the front. Obviously it will not move but you trying to push it with your stomach is a hell of a high intensity session. agreed that a hill is better in every way.

Also I think the rest period is too short as usually hr doesn't recover that quickly. I do it a little differently but definitely Baseline is spot on. Great post bro

[baseline_9]

Yes, Twist is right about the rest period

Generally when doing HIIT the idea is to allow the heart reat to recover to almost where u were when u were just Joging o even lower....

However i have found the method I preach to be the most intense training I have ever done, it really overloads the CV system and ur lower body in the shortest period of time, im talking 15 min cardio sessions


This style of HIIT is not for everyone, and if ur a PT u could really scare sum1 off if u hit them with one of these sessions, you can also seperate the strong minded from the weak

As i said, u get to a point where the physical side is at a limit, it then becoms a mental game really

[First6]

Ok guys

Im posting this thread because every time I see someone who posts up thinking they are doing a HIIT session I find myself having to explain what IMO 'Real HIIT' actually is.

One thing i will say is that u need a good interval timer to do HIIT. The 'Gym Boss' is great, if anyone want to ask me about it I will explain i etc..

An example of a Interval Training Session

5 min warm up at 50% effort

60 secconds at 70% effort
60 secconds at 90% effort

repeat 10-15 times



An example of a HIIT Session

5 min warm up at 50% effort
Stretch out, re-warm

10/15 seconds at 100% effort (Hill Sprints or Normal Sprints,, this cannot be done on a treadmill or any piece of gym equipment IMO)
60/90 seconds at 0-20% effort (stand still or walk back down hill etc..)

repeat 10-15 times if you can.


Ok now you can clearly see the difference between the two types of training


'Real HIIT' Training is hardcore, it is balls to the wall, you will never experience anything like it...

After one sprint u will feel great and think its piss easy

After 3 ur CV system will start to lag behind, but still no big deal, just a little burn in the lungs and ur throat will start to dry out

After 6 your legs will feel like u have done a 100 rep set of squats, ur mouth will begin to drewl uncontrably, you spit will become like battory acid

After 8 you will want to go home, you will have little left in ur legs, every step feels like a blow tourch on ur quads, ur lungs will be on fire and almost in pain, your nose will now be running like ur mouth... Hey this is wher it gets fun tho...Rite?

Getting to 10 is hard, verry hard, most will quit...

You can see the trend here, you are basically taking your cardio system and ur muscles to failure, over and over again, you do not get time to re-compose ur self, your cardio system will be left behind, your muslce will be going to near failure over and over again..

You will find it hard to even walk back down the hill, your legs will be buckling underneath ur weight..

After you have done ur session and get home ur lungs will be burning, you will pant for a fair bit of time, your heart rate will be elevated, your throat will be sore, your legs will feel like jelly...

Did I hear someone say EPOC?



So guys, u think ur doing 'Real HIIT'? Think again!

Yeah this is right on.
To clarify the statement in bold. ONE OF the problems with trying to do HIIT on gym equipment is the rate at which the equipment gets to the high speed. You can't have a treadmill go from 0-2mph all the way up to 12-14mph in a second. They progress in speed way to slowly so by the time it gets you exerting your 100% your time is up. The only way is to leave the mill run @ 12-14mph and jump on and off. I don't think any trainer would tell you that is a good/safe idea.

Good post baseline!

[baseline_9]

Yeah this is right on.
To clarify the statement in bold. ONE OF the problems with trying to do HIIT on gym equipment is the rate at which the equipment gets to the high speed. You can't have a treadmill go from 0-2mph all the way up to 12-14mph in a second. They progress in speed way to slowly so by the time it gets you exerting your 100% your time is up. The only way is to leave the mill run @ 12-14mph and jump on and off. I don't think any trainer would tell you that is a good/safe idea.

Good post baseline!

You are exactly right, it need to be 100% effor str8 away

Although i have seen a UFC fighter put the treadmill on full speed, he then ran onto the treadmill from the back LOL

U didnt hear that from me if u die trying it

[JoeC6Z51]

Ok guys

Im posting this thread because every time I see someone who posts up thinking they are doing a HIIT session I find myself having to explain what IMO 'Real HIIT' actually is.

One thing i will say is that u need a good interval timer to do HIIT. The 'Gym Boss' is great, if anyone want to ask me about it I will explain i etc..

An example of a Interval Training Session

5 min warm up at 50% effort

60 secconds at 70% effort
60 secconds at 90% effort

repeat 10-15 times



An example of a HIIT Session

5 min warm up at 50% effort
Stretch out, re-warm

10/15 seconds at 100% effort (Hill Sprints or Normal Sprints,, this cannot be done on a treadmill or any piece of gym equipment IMO)
60/90 seconds at 0-20% effort (stand still or walk back down hill etc..)

repeat 10-15 times if you can.


Ok now you can clearly see the difference between the two types of training


'Real HIIT' Training is hardcore, it is balls to the wall, you will never experience anything like it...

After one sprint u will feel great and think its piss easy

After 3 ur CV system will start to lag behind, but still no big deal, just a little burn in the lungs and ur throat will start to dry out

After 6 your legs will feel like u have done a 100 rep set of squats, ur mouth will begin to drewl uncontrably, you spit will become like battory acid

After 8 you will want to go home, you will have little left in ur legs, every step feels like a blow tourch on ur quads, ur lungs will be on fire and almost in pain, your nose will now be running like ur mouth... Hey this is wher it gets fun tho...Rite?

Getting to 10 is hard, verry hard, most will quit...

You can see the trend here, you are basically taking your cardio system and ur muscles to failure, over and over again, you do not get time to re-compose ur self, your cardio system will be left behind, your muslce will be going to near failure over and over again..

You will find it hard to even walk back down the hill, your legs will be buckling underneath ur weight..

After you have done ur session and get home ur lungs will be burning, you will pant for a fair bit of time, your heart rate will be elevated, your throat will be sore, your legs will feel like jelly...

Did I hear someone say EPOC?



So guys, u think ur doing 'Real HIIT'? Think again!

OK, I made a comment on a previous post from your comment. This is an excellent example of HIIT training. How I disagree that you can't do this on a piece of equipment. I did it on a treadmill. I would set the incline to 3-5 (this is to simulate acctual running outside on a flat surface) and do 30 sec sprints, 60 secs slow jog. then move to 60 sec sprints and 120 sec slow jog. May not be as intense a hill sprints (which I did love), but never had any problems getting my heart rate to 90% MHR and higher on the treadmill.

[baseline_9]

OK, I made a comment on a previous post from your comment. This is an excellent example of HIIT training. How I disagree that you can't do this on a piece of equipment. I did it on a treadmill. I would set the incline to 3-5 (this is to simulate acctual running outside on a flat surface) and do 30 sec sprints, 60 secs slow jog. then move to 60 sec sprints and 120 sec slow jog. May not be as intense a hill sprints (which I did love), but never had any problems getting my heart rate to 90% MHR and higher on the treadmill.

The only problem here is that you say "I did it on a treadmill" and then explain what you did it is not the same as what im talking about....

I still dont think this training can be done on a piece of gym equipment safely or effectivly

In fact I know it cant

[JoeC6Z51]

Ok, if you say so. What ever I did gave me excellent results. I dropped 20 lbs in 6 weeks and maintained my LBM with 4 on 2 off weight training and a good diet. HIIT training is not a specific exercise, specific place or a specific movement. The Goal of HIIT is to mantain an anaerobic state for a period of time. This is accomplished by brining your heart rate up to 85-95% of your MHR, holding it, and then letting your heart rate drop to about 60-65% and repeating this 8-12 times. I you can do that sprinting up a hill, and I can do that sprinting on a elevated treadmill.....I would have to say that these are both examples of HIIT because they both obtain the same goal. In fact, I would say my way is better because I can hold a sprint on a treadmill for 1 min at 85-95% MHR, where as you say you can only sprint up a hill for 10 to 15 sec.

[baseline_9]

I will agree to disagree with you on this one....

The way i do HIIT is different to yours completely

Both will give results, i think the way I have done it to be superior to the way you do it but hey, u do what suits you, everyone should only do what the are comfortable with


For anyone who cant hack the hill sprints, they could do a toned down version on a treadmill....

[Twist]

Can you do hiit on a treadmill/bike/elliptical? Yes. Is it as effective as using the amount of force and energy it will take to run up a hill? No way.

I do hiit on the stepmill. If you are an athlete then try to go with the hill. If you are just trying to shed some bodyfat it won't matter too much.

[charcold]

Ive read fat burning doesnt occur until apprx 20 minutes in, What way would u factor things like that in? or does it become irrelevant?

Just found this

I started experimenting with HIIT and other forms of higher intensity cardio and loved the results. I use to subscribe the long low intensity type daily but I am beginning to change my thoughts on it. I am currently doing only three 30 minute sessions a week and getting leaner. I have also cut my calories a bit and the cardio sessions are very high intensity. Currently doing the stepmill at level 12 for 15 minutes then back down to level 8-7 for the remaining 15 minutes. The first few times I did it I thought my lungs were going to explode.

[JoeC6Z51]

Baseline 9, need your opinion.....I will do my cardio in the morning as soon as I wake up (0500). Because my knees are jacked up, I will never be able to run again. What I do for Cardio is I get on the eliptical, warm up for about 3 mins, then hit it hard raising my heart rate to 90-95%MHR for 1 min, then rest at a slow pace for 2 min, and repeat this 10 to 12 times. Complete workout is usually 35 mins. I know you wouldn't consider this HIIT training, but I've been doing this on an empty stomach. I've read in a few posts that you shouldn't do HIIT training first thing in the morning on an empty stomach due to the high intensity of the workout. What is your opinion on this? Do you think I can continue to do this type of wokout on an empty stomach? If not, do you think a small protien shake (about a half serving of muscle milk shake or full serving?) 30 to 45 mins prior to cardio would be ok?

[baseline_9]

Baseline 9, need your opinion.....I will do my cardio in the morning as soon as I wake up (0500). Because my knees are jacked up, I will never be able to run again. What I do for Cardio is I get on the eliptical, warm up for about 3 mins, then hit it hard raising my heart rate to 90-95%MHR for 1 min, then rest at a slow pace for 2 min, and repeat this 10 to 12 times. Complete workout is usually 35 mins. I know you wouldn't consider this HIIT training, but I've been doing this on an empty stomach. I've read in a few posts that you shouldn't do HIIT training first thing in the morning on an empty stomach due to the high intensity of the workout. What is your opinion on this? Do you think I can continue to do this type of wokout on an empty stomach? If not, do you think a small protien shake (about a half serving of muscle milk shake or full serving?) 30 to 45 mins prior to cardio would be ok?

IMO nothing other than Low Intensity Cardio should be done on an empty stomach....


The reason why I think LIC can be done on an empty stomach Is because of the energy system used to 'Fuel' this Intensity of training...

LIC uses the 'Oxidative Phosphorylation' energy system, meaning the 'Fuel' used is Fats and Oxygen, and the key here is NOT PRIMARILY GLYCOGEN

An easy way to tell that you are within this energy system is a simple 'talk test',, Can you string a sentence without too much dificulty?


HIIT will be using the 'Anaerobic Glycolysis' and 'Aerobic Glycolysis' energy system to fuel most of the work and maybe even the 'APT' system if u push it 100% up a hill as I mentioned earlier...

As you can see within the mames of the two primary energy systems this type of training is a 'Glycolysis/Glycogen' dependent training system, meaning to get he benefits of this training you need to fuel'd for it... (More on the benefits of HIIT laiter)

The whole point of 'Fasted Cardio' is to eliminate glycogen and try to force the body to utalise stored body fat...


Even in a fasted state ur muscles will/can have glycogen stored but since the body can use an energy system where the fuel source is 'Full' and availiable it will use Fat and Oxygen..

When Performing HIIT in a fsted state IF ALL that glycogen is used up the body will then begin the process of breaking down the muscle tissue you have on your body to convert it to Gycogen that can then be used for fuel, this process is called 'Glucogenesis' which we do not want...



IMO the reason one should do HIIT or Interval training is to create an EPOC (Excess Post Oxygen Consumption)

Basically this means ur body is ramped up for a long period, even while ur not training, this 'ramping' up refers to metabolic rate, heart beat etc...

And guess what, the 'ramp up' puts you in a great position to burn calories from fat since it is low intensity and does not use Glycogen to fuel this...



Science Lesson Over

[baseline_9]

didnt realise how long that post was, sorry guys

[JoeC6Z51]

......is there gonna be a test?

[musclestack]

Baseline, would you recommend fasted cardio on keto? What I do is more like interval training, I suppose. I do one of two things for cardio: either I'll hit a punching bag for 45 minutes, going 3 minutes moderately then 2 minutes all out, and repeat 8 more times. OR, I'll go on the ellyptical and do the same thing 3min/2min, repeat 8 more times.

Do you think I should eat something before this cardio, or will I be okay since I don't have any glycogen stores being on keto anyway??

[baseline_9]

Baseline, would you recommend fasted cardio on keto? What I do is more like interval training, I suppose. I do one of two things for cardio: either I'll hit a punching bag for 45 minutes, going 3 minutes moderately then 2 minutes all out, and repeat 8 more times. OR, I'll go on the ellyptical and do the same thing 3min/2min, repeat 8 more times.

Do you think I should eat something before this cardio, or will I be okay since I don't have any glycogen stores being on keto anyway??

Personaly I wouldnt do HIT on Keto....

When doing a CKD a lot of people say to use it as a glycogen depletion method.....???

I dont get that theory since tho whole point of the glycogen load is to fuel ur weight lifting in the early part of the week

Once you have no glycogen u will be running on ketones while at low intensity which is good

What will happen if u do HIIT when glycogen depleted - Glucogenesis which is bad, very bad for BB's


There are mixed beliefs on HIIT and Keto, above is just my opinion, id love for somone to represent the other side of the argument tho

[baseline_9]

But hey

Im talking theory here

If ur doing it and getting the results u want then stick with it

[Sgt. Hartman]

Baseline - in response to this:

IMO nothing other than Low Intensity Cardio should be done on an empty stomach....


The reason why I think LIC can be done on an empty stomach Is because of the energy system used to 'Fuel' this Intensity of training...

LIC uses the 'Oxidative Phosphorylation' energy system, meaning the 'Fuel' used is Fats and Oxygen, and the key here is NOT PRIMARILY GLYCOGEN

An easy way to tell that you are within this energy system is a simple 'talk test',, Can you string a sentence without too much dificulty?


HIIT will be using the 'Anaerobic Glycolysis' and 'Aerobic Glycolysis' energy system to fuel most of the work and maybe even the 'APT' system if u push it 100% up a hill as I mentioned earlier...

As you can see within the mames of the two primary energy systems this type of training is a 'Glycolysis/Glycogen' dependent training system, meaning to get he benefits of this training you need to fuel'd for it... (More on the benefits of HIIT laiter)

The whole point of 'Fasted Cardio' is to eliminate glycogen and try to force the body to utalise stored body fat...


Even in a fasted state ur muscles will/can have glycogen stored but since the body can use an energy system where the fuel source is 'Full' and availiable it will use Fat and Oxygen..

When Performing HIIT in a fsted state IF ALL that glycogen is used up the body will then begin the process of breaking down the muscle tissue you have on your body to convert it to Gycogen that can then be used for fuel, this process is called 'Glucogenesis' which we do not want...



IMO the reason one should do HIIT or Interval training is to create an EPOC (Excess Post Oxygen Consumption)

Basically this means ur body is ramped up for a long period, even while ur not training, this 'ramping' up refers to metabolic rate, heart beat etc...

And guess what, the 'ramp up' puts you in a great position to burn calories from fat since it is low intensity and does not use Glycogen to fuel this...



Science Lesson Over




I know that you are exactly correct in every thing you said above but I think that it is much easier to burn LBM in theory than in actuality, doing AM fasted high intensity cardio- especially when eating at or above TDEE.

I have been doing some form of AM fasted high-intensity cardio usually 6 days a week since Jan 1 and my experience has been that when I first started it (cutting) at 500 cal deficiency it definitely cut into my LBM. But, I have been eating at maintenance cal for the last six months with the same cardio routine and don't feel like I have lost any LBM whatsoever - weight has stayed the same and if anything have put on a small amount of muscle. I was (and still am) concerned about losing LBM by continuing this but I can't bring myself to do cardio for as long of a time period as necessary for LIC.

Not trying to argue with you - I know that in theory you're exactly right, but it seems our bodies don't always react to certain types of training the way they're "supposed" to.

[Twist]

Yes well Baseline's explanation still holds because you upped your calories to NO deficit. Therefore all calories burned are in am cardio and you have plenty of food to replenish. You also might not have a lot of LBM. When you are far from your genetic limit it is easy to halt LBM loss. When you are struggling to gain mass it is easy. This is why LI cardio is useful when fasted. The only time your body burns all calories from fat stores is when you are at complete rest. So even in doing low intensity cardio you are still burning more than fat stores; but its as close as you can get. What Base says about EPOC is what should be focused on as that is the main point of doing HIIT/Weight training when LBM gain is not the only goal

[baseline_9]

In responce to sgt. Hartman...

Post 25 is my disclaimer - I have said it before and will say it again. I know the 'Theory' but what really matters are the actuall results ur getting

If u do fasted HIIT, loose BF and maintain ur LBM then who cares, if the oposite occurs thats when the theory becomes actual reality

[baseline_9]

Yes well Baseline's explanation still holds because you upped your calories to NO deficit. Therefore all calories burned are in am cardio and you have plenty of food to replenish. You also might not have a lot of LBM. When you are far from your genetic limit it is easy to halt LBM loss. When you are struggling to gain mass it is easy. This is why LI cardio is useful when fasted. The only time your body burns all calories from fat stores is when you are at complete rest. So even in doing low intensity cardio you are still burning more than fat stores; but its as close as you can get. What Base says about EPOC is what should be focused on as that is the main point of doing HIIT/Weight training when LBM gain is not the only goal

Twist is exactly rite

Guys need to realise that while performing HIIT you may not burn a load of calories from Fat or calories in general, this is another difference between HIIT and Interval Training -more on that laiter

The purpose of HIIT for anyone who hasnt got it is to create as big of an EPOC as possible - this EPOC put ur body in a elevated state as far as metabolic rate etc... For up to 72hrs (theoreticaly, but i dont care- it raises met rate more than any other training if done corrctly)

As Twist stated our bodys run of Fat when the intensity is very low, sitting on ur arse, walking around etc... Now that ur met rate is raised ur basically burning a little bit more but over a long period (up to 72hrs)

So basically the benefits from HIIT as far as fat loss are concerned come when you are at rest

IMO Interval Training differs from this since there will be much less of an EPOC and therfore we cannot take advantage of that..

Howevr we can perform Interval Training over an extended period of time - up to an hour, and burn more calories in the process by using Intervals of higher intensity when possible and from the duration


Low Intensity Training Goals - Burn a high percentage of calories from fat over an extended period of time

Interval Training Goals - Burn as many calories from fat and glycogen as possible over an extended period of time

HIIT Goals - Create as big of an EPOC as possible over a shot period of time

[JoeC6Z51]

So if your primay goal is to burn as much fat as possible while trying to obtain LBM, what do you suggest? Lets say for someone who is 6'0". 230lbs and approx 24%bf.

[baseline_9]

So if your primay goal is to burn as much fat as possible while trying to obtain LBM, what do you suggest? Lets say for someone who is 6'0". 230lbs and approx 24%bf.

Hmmmmmmm...

At ur BF% (No offence, but High) I would reccomend a mix of all 3

Now I know that is a bit of a crap answer but I will try and explain....

With a hight BF% ur body will give up the fat stores easyier thain if u were at 5% BF, no matter what you do I think you will loose a large percent of BF (Large percentage based on overall weight loss) simply by eating at a calorific defecit or creating one with whatever training u can do...

If ur Verry lean the body needs to hang on to stored energy to fuel survival, meaning u will need to force the body to loose its store, by using them directly in cardio...

If ur BF is High, the body doesnt see it as an imidiate threat to loose some of its stores, simply being in a calorific defecit you will loose the BF without 'too much' of a struggle...

GB will tell you that this is true as he is finding it a lot harder to shift the last BF now he is below 15% BF



So here is my recomendation, although I would like other to chime in...

Fasted Morning cardio - 3-5 times per week - 30-60 mins
Interval training PWO - 3 Times Per week - 25-45 mins
HIIT when glycogen can be used (On a ree-feed day) - Once every 4 days (No weight training to be performed on this day)

Heavy Hight Intensity Weight Training 4 x per week - Dorian yates style,,, see ---> http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/dori...ek-trainer.htm

[baseline_9]

So if your primay goal is to burn as much fat as possible while trying to obtain LBM, what do you suggest? Lets say for someone who is 6'0". 230lbs and approx 24%bf.

I missed the 'Obtain LBM' and skimmed it as 'Maintain'

Either way IMO 'Obtain', 'Maintain' should be treated the same while trying to loose BF


One other thing I will say is, dont drop ur calories too low, and make sure to keep carbs around ur weight training, Pre work out and Post IMO

Protein - 1.8g per LBM
Carbs - 1.2g per LBM
Fats - 0.4g per LBM

[JoeC6Z51]

Right...I meant "Maintain".....but as far as burning bodyfat, which would you says is the most efficient......HIIT or LI Cardio?

[baseline_9]

Right...I meant "Maintain".....but as far as burning bodyfat, which would you says is the most efficient......HIIT or LI Cardio?

Im sorry Joe but they are simply not interchangable and thats why I reccomended an mix

LIC can be performed everyday, multiple times per day without overtraining

HIIT IMO should only be used every 4 days, as it is stressfull on the body, muscles and CNS, similar to a heavy leg workout


To answer ur question...

IMO if you were to do one or the other....

LIC would be best for burining BF as it can be performed more often and overall burn more calories and fat calories

HIIT can at best be done twice per week and simply isnt the best option IMO


HIIT is tool to use just like every other training method, Too much is definatley bad tho

IMO HIIT is suited best for athelets looking to increase there performance in short bursts of high intensity (Boxers, Sprinters, Football Players, American Football etc...)

[JoeC6Z51]

Cool, thanks.

[Twist]

IMO LI cardio should only be used when you are low bf and trying to get the last few lbs off when you have a high muscle mass.

I would use HIIT training at every cardio session if possible. If HIIT is going to be performed running up a hill or such, then it will most likely only be able to be performed, as Base said, every 3-4 days because your legs should be shot. If you don't have a high LBM, then it will be easy to drop fat and not LBM.

[Sgt. Hartman]

Baseline & Twist-

After the first of the year I will be starting a very clean bulk and wanted some insight as to what types of cardio you think I should do. I really enjoy doing my cardio AM fasted and early AM is the most convenient time for me to do it. I will be on AAS and was thinking about eating a 500 cal surplus, using cardio to burn it off, which would put me back at my TDEE and then let the AAS work their magic. I am currently about 12% and don't want to go any higher even if gains are minimal.

Thanks!

[baseline_9]

Baseline & Twist-

After the first of the year I will be starting a very clean bulk and wanted some insight as to what types of cardio you think I should do. I really enjoy doing my cardio AM fasted and early AM is the most convenient time for me to do it. I will be on AAS and was thinking about eating a 500 cal surplus, using cardio to burn it off, which would put me back at my TDEE and then let the AAS work their magic. I am currently about 12% and don't want to go any higher even if gains are minimal.

Thanks!

IMO without a doubt i would reccomend LIC...

It will not hinder gains

It will not be catabolic

It will not push you into overtraining


3-5 times per week, 20-40 mins whenever u can do it

If u do it fasted i would have a protein shake WITH carbs before, which infact isnt fasted LOL

I dont agree with eating at TDEE tho while using AAS and teying to gain weight....

I would shoot for 500-1000 cals surplus per day if u really wanna grow

Short cycles with a prime will alow you to create an anabolic enviroment where fat gains will be minimal

The key IMO when cycling is to eat super clean and not get messy with what ur eating

[im9boss]

nice thread....basline and twist....good info....explains alot of things for me...

thanks doods

[Sgt. Hartman]

Thanks baseline - good info.

Just to clarify, LIC would be around 65% of MHR - correct?

Also, I'm a little confused about where to start as far as TDEE while bulking b/c from the last 6 months of experience my TDEE is about 2600, but Katch McArdle and the other calculators have it at over 3000. Pretty big difference - almost 500 cal.

I'll start a thread and see what the others think of this.

Thanks for the help.