Starting Clen 2 on, 1 EC, 2 on cycle

[kalentir]

Wish I could edit the title of this thread, oh well.

Thanks for taking the time for all these posts, very very much appreciated.

This is my what I think will be my final revision.


3 G Taurine each day, 3g Fish oil each day, 5000 IU Vitamin D each day, 2 MG Keto before bed, I ordered some more since AR-R is great and delivers in TWO days

Day1: 40mcg
Day2: 60mcg
Day3: 80mcg
Day4: 100mcg
Day5: 120mcg
Day6: 120 mcg
Day7+120 mcg

If side effects are too harsh at any dose, reset back 20 mcg and go up from there


It is my first cycle so I have no clue what to expect as to how my sides will be.


Cycle end - When keto is depleted (4 weeks)

The only thing I'm really unsure of is when to do cardio and lifting, I love cardio but I'm sure I'd need a hell of a lot more calories if I kept it in my routine.

[SlimJoe]

Good luck

[kalentir]

Good luck

ty

[MuttonChop]

I highly highly recommend not taking the ECA stack during the off week. The ECA bombs your beta-2 receptors along with others, and this wont help in their re-sensitization.

Or, you could take some ketofin (AR-R sells this, but a bit pricey). If you have no idea why, you should do some more research.

My 2 cents.

[sixoner]

agreed. 7 days is not sufficient time for your beta-2 adrenergic receptors to recover naturally after 14 consecutive days of considerable dosing of clenbuteral. especially if you take ephedrine during those 7 days. your receptors will not recover, and clenbuteral will be ineffective when you get back on.

and then 2 weeks on for the last week..

im not sure what that means bro, not a very good plan though

as far as spreading the dosage through out the day, some guys prefer to do it that way. personally i never have i always take 120mcg as 1 dose after a few meals in the day, its got a fairly long half life where i never saw the need to split the dosage when dosing everyday at the same time.

regardless whichever way you choose to go..draw the liquid into the oral syringe and shoot it into your mouth and drink it. it doesn't have to be all complicated

the concentration of ar-r"s clen is 200mcg per ml


the full syringe to the 1ml mark is a 200mcg dose..
at the .1 mark = 20mcg
at the .2 mark = 40mcg
at the .3 mark = 60mcg
at the .4 mark = 80mcg
at the .5 mark = 100mcg
at the .6 mark = 120mcg
at the .7 mark = 140mcg
at the .8 mark = 160mcg
at the .9 mark = 180mcg
at the 1ml mark (full syringe) = 200mcg

split it up or take it all at once whatever....

[kalentir]

^Thank you for the above post, very layed out and detailed.. Some great members on this site..I would be getting much harsher replies at any other site.

So I'm doing 2 on, 2 off, 2 on.

Also, I made very very sure to learn the syringe doses after reading some moron accidently gave himself 200 mcg at once on his first day instead of 20 mcg.

Sorry for asking stupid questions.

[toothache]

Benadryl is not effective as ketotifen.

[kalentir]

Got the keto, got my dosing down.Thanks guys.

Please no Keto vs benadryl flame war now :x

[MuttonChop]

Ideally:
I suggest 2mg (or even 5 mg just to be sure. Dan Duchaine recommended 10 mg/ed but overkill) of Keto every day along with your dosage of Clen.
But, this ends up being expensive because the vial from Ar-r then only lasts 15 days with this dosage.

Practically:
1) Use some benadryl until your clen arrives IF you have been taken ECA or other beta-2 agonist. This will prime you up for Clen
2) Do two weeks of clen without any keto or benadryl
3) Start on keto from 3rd week until you are done your cycle OR take benadryl for 7 days during 3rd week OR take benadryl for 7 days during 3rd week and start keto from 4th week ED.

Different options, choose one that is practical for you. But yea, keto everyday at 2mg-5mg through out cycle would be useful.

Also, Benadryl has not been shown to be worse or better than Keto. Its all bro-science at that point. I suggest you try both and see what you think.

[kalentir]

Thanks for all the help guys.

[sixoner]

benadryl does not work to prevent tachyphylaxis from continuous use of clenbuteral...it does absolutely jack shit....ketotifen will work to support or re-sensitize the beta-2 adrenergic receptors to keep clenbuteral working optimally or for longer periods than 10days+

dyphenhydramine(benadryl) will leave you completely stupified like some scumbag crackhead...and your receptors will still be trashed it does not work.

use ketotifen

[MuttonChop]

Sixoner, I saw your thread about Benadryl. I am sorry that it did not work for you, but that does not anything without scientific data.

Hence, I suggest that the OP try out both and see how he feels. If I am indeed wrong and sixoner is right, all you lost is a few bucks but gained some knowledge about your body.

[kalentir]

So yeah..lots of flaming..

So I'll just be doing

Day1: 20mcg
Day2: 40mcg
Day3: 60mcg
Day4: 80mcg
Day5: 80mcg
Day6-Day12: 100 (I'll max out at 140, if there are too many sides i will back down)mcg
Day13: 100-140 mcg
Day14: 100-140 mcg

for the clen weeks, and then the third/4th weeks use keto @ 2g a day? i'm getting conflicting opinions on different forums on benadryl and keto

[sixoner]

Sixoner, I saw your thread about Benadryl. I am sorry that it did not work for you, but that does not anything without scientific data.

Hence, I suggest that the OP try out both and see how he feels. If I am indeed wrong and sixoner is right, all you lost is a few bucks but gained some knowledge about your body.

you don't need to be sorry for me bro, I knew what I was doing

check it out bro im trying to save the guy from getting trashed on benadryl its not fun. neither is being on clenbuteral for that matter with the exception of lifting while on. so you may as well follow some sound dosing protocols and not fuk around agreed?

I have researched the hell out of the compound and its effects and also have personal experiences and have used the compound with great success multiple times.

If i were to suggest that dyphenhydramine had no effect on me then that's one thing, but it worked and it worked well. 2 tabs of benadryl knocked my dick straight into the dirt bomb smashed wasted fuking comatosed purified.......what it did not do was make the clenbuteral any more effective after tachyphylaxis had set in. it did nothing to change the ineffectiveness of the clenbuteral after 5 consecutive days of dosing. still got me plenty fukin trashed though.

ketotifen on the the other hand after tachyphylaxis has set in from clenbuteral I begin to see a returning response after the first day or two with similar to initial effects of having clean receptors coming in around 9 days after starting the ketotifen.

so my conclusions are as I have stated many times after my experiences and research, is that it is best to run ketotifen in conjunction with clenbuteral from the very first day and not wait for your receptors to become desensitized. it keeps the clenbuteral working optimally and you can run it for much longer periods. otherwise once tachyphylaxis sets in you end up wasting upwards of 9 days waiting of clen working half assed to get results similar to the initial effects.

plain and simple.....dyphenhydramine (benadryl) does not work to re-sensitize or support the bronchial beta-2 adrenergic receptors which are the receptors that clenbuteral specifically targets for its effect

I am not the first to say this check out some of the vets posts on the subject..ask ronnie rowland and swifto

for the sake of brevity, and to not list 50 studies please go to the national center for biotechnology information database and knock your lights out.... http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/

here are some key words for you to help you along...

ketotifen effects on beta-2 adrenergic receptors
ketotifen pharmacology
clenbuteral pharmacology
diphenhydramine effects on beta-2 adrenergic receptors....(crickets chirping)
diphenhydramine pharmacology

etc.......

that bro science sounds a whole lot better than just take benadryl for a week and find out if it works.....i'll save you the time IT DOESNT....

[MuttonChop]

Benadryl is soooooo cheap that you would be stupid not to incorporate it EVEN if it might end up not working. Sixoner could very well be right, but considering that there is no scientific data (I am a big research nerd), that is even more reason for you to give it a try.

Also, it is preferable to start keto from Day 1 of your clen cycle if you can afford it. If not, what you have posted above should do the trick.

Honestly, you will be able to tell for yourself. Even better: take your temp for a week before starting your first clen day. When you come back down to this temperature, use benadryl for a week. If your temperature goes back up, CONGRATS. You just saved yourself some huge ass amounts of money. If not, try keto, and then see if your temp goes up.

If you want to follow what I laid out above, this is how it would look:

Day 1 till Day 14: Clen only
Day 15: Temp should have normalized. Start benadryl. Continue to take till Day 21
Day 21: If temperature has not risen again, then start keto ED
Day 28: Keto should now have increased your temperature back up. IF NOT, don't panic. Keto works for sure. What this means though is that Benadryl might have also worked for you.

Again, this is not necessary if you have the money for Keto to be taken ED from the beginning.

Extra reading if you want:

Prog Clin Biol Res. 1981;63:383-8 --- This one is a bit tricky. All it says is that Histamines cause down regulation of H1 and beta-andrenoreceptors (the one that clen binds to). Now, since benadryl is an anti-histamine, we could kinda safely say that benadryl up regulates these receptors. (I say kinda safely because there might be more H1 action than beta-andrenoreceptor action).

Comp Biochem Physiol C. 1989;92(1):143-8 -- Study shows that isoprotenerol causes down regulation of beta-2 receptors due to DEGRADATION of phopholipids, which is what sixoner means by tachyphylaxis. Now, I am unable to find the study that showed that Diphenhydramine (benadryl) slowed the degradation of phopholipids. I am not even sure if there is any such study.

Therefore, my conclusion is that sixoner COULD BE RIGHT. If you get no side effects from benadryl though, give it a try.

[MuttonChop]

Thanks for the link to http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/ Sixoner. I will check it out.

[sixoner]

benadryl works in that manner because it blocks the h1 receptors even if it blocked the beta-2's then you'd be blocking the clen from hitting the beta-2's as well....you may as well just lay off the clen and allow the receptors to recover naturally instead of being wasted on benadryl

[MuttonChop]

Hmm you could be onto something there. Since benadryl is used for allergies, it would not make sense if it up regulated the H1 receptors without blocking some method of action, which would cause the allergies to worsen. I will look into it.

[sixoner]

please do

[MuttonChop]

I have not had the time to look into this, but I just realized something. If benadryl indeed BLOCKS beta 2 receptors, then the reason it works is basically because its like you are taking a week off, i.e, wasting clen. Therefore, when you stop taking benadryl, you THINK that it has worked because it was equivalent to taking a week off.

[kalentir]

Edited first post!

[MuttonChop]

Be careful with cardio + clen. It can make you feel like shit. Listen to your body at all times.

Once you stop your keto after 4 weeks, you can still potentially continue the clen for 10 or so more days with it still be effective, in case you find that you didn't get the results you wanted and do not have enough keto left. Just letting you know =)

[kalentir]

Thanks a lot Mutton, I don't do much cardio at the moment, all I was planning on was 60 minutes of 3 MPH walking