Low free T

[blacksmoke]

Total test 15.3 (8.4-28.7)
Free T 27 (30-87)
Urine RBC's 5 - 10 Moderate (0-5)
My dr didn't seem to care about the low free T but got me an appointment with an urologist for the blood in urine. I'm sure I have had this hematuria for a long time. The dr said he has a few patients with blood in their urine with no ill effects.
So I'm going to the urologist for hematuria, can I bring up my low T with him or does my doc have to tell him about it?
I'm 33 years old.

[zaggahamma]

Total test 15.3 (8.4-28.7)
Free T 27 (30-87)
Urine RBC's 5 - 10 Moderate (0-5)
My dr didn't seem to care about the low free T but got me an appointment with an urologist for the blood in urine. I'm sure I have had this hematuria for a long time. The dr said he has a few patients with blood in their urine with no ill effects.
So I'm going to the urologist for hematuria, can I bring up my low T with him or does my doc have to tell him about it?
I'm 33 years old.

ofcourse you can bring it up

your 33 what are the rest of your stats

what are you looking to accomplish...the only ? u asked is if u can bring up your test levels with the uro.....if u havent already get a copy and bring them with you...dont wait for these doctors to give u things or guide you the only thing you can count on them doing is collecting their money

[Vettester]

Like jpk says, you can indeed bring it up. Free "T" is just as critical as knowing your total serum score. Also as jpkman asked, what are your stats? It would be nice to know if they also took a SHBG panel.

[blacksmoke]

6'2"
197lbs and somewhere around 16% or 17% bf
I'd like to get below 15% bf and still be 200 -210. Working out on and off for about 12 years. I've been working out everyother day for about 6 weeks and the little gains I have seen have now stalled out. When I do legs they are sore for a solid 4 days and on the 5th can still feel them. I am hopping that trt would help with my low libido, low energy, recovery time issues.
Lipid profile
cholesterol 4.0 2-5.2
triglycerides .8 <2.3
hdl .8 >0.9
ldl 2.8 1.5-3.4
chol hdl ratio 5 <5

chem general
creat 75 45 - 110
egfr 104 >60
glucose fasting 4.7 3.6 - 5.5

TSH 4.65 0.3 - 5.5

I don't see any SHGB tests.
Do you think I should try and get E2 FSH LH tests done before I see the urologist?
Thanks for your input/help!

[zaggahamma]

6'2"
197lbs and somewhere around 16% or 17% bf
I'd like to get below 15% bf and still be 200 -210. Working out on and off for about 12 years. I've been working out everyother day for about 6 weeks and the little gains I have seen have now stalled out. When I do legs they are sore for a solid 4 days and on the 5th can still feel them. I am hopping that trt would help with my low libido, low energy, recovery time issues.
Lipid profile
cholesterol 4.0 2-5.2
triglycerides .8 <2.3
hdl .8 >0.9
ldl 2.8 1.5-3.4
chol hdl ratio 5 <5

chem general
creat 75 45 - 110
egfr 104 >60
glucose fasting 4.7 3.6 - 5.5

TSH 4.65 0.3 - 5.5

I don't see any SHGB tests.
Do you think I should try and get E2 FSH LH tests done before I see the urologist?
Thanks for your input/help!

yes, if you can...did u do these tests without a script from the doctor you mention referring you to the uro...reason i ask, is he should have had the fsh and lh tested on your current labwork that your showing us...
your test levels look less concerning than your thyroid levels...not sure if thats better handled by an endo than a uro...real surprised tsh was tested but not fsh/lh

keep us posted

[blacksmoke]

My dr had all these tests done. I think I will go back and ask for more tests and if he is hesitant..... time for a new dr

[zaggahamma]

My dr had all these tests done. I think I will go back and ask for more tests and if he is hesitant..... time for a new dr

yes dont be afraid to find other opinions and/or more compitent physicians....its a shame but its reality

[blacksmoke]

So I went back to my doctor and asked for LH, FSH, E2, SHBG, T3, T4 and prolactin thinking I could have the results in time for my urogoist appointment. He didn't want to, saying that is why he is sending me to the specialist. So he sent me for LH, FSH and prolactin and he admitted the fact that hormones are not a strong point of his.
At least these will be done before my March 9 appointmment.

[zaggahamma]

So I went back to my doctor and asked for LH, FSH, E2, SHBG, T3, T4 and prolactin thinking I could have the results in time for my urogoist appointment. He didn't want to, saying that is why he is sending me to the specialist. So he sent me for LH, FSH and prolactin and he admitted the fact that hormones are not a strong point of his.
At least these will be done before my March 9 appointmment.

funny thing is you werent asking him to fvkcing read those levels you were asking him to order the fvcking bloodwork so you dont have to wast a fvcking trip...wtf is wrong with these fvcking doctors...if i want to test for something and see whats in my fvcking blood shouldnt we have that fvcking right?????????

end rant

for now

[blacksmoke]

FSH 3.3 2.0 - 18.0
LH 3.9 2.0 - 18.0
Prolactin 9.4 2.0 - 15.0

What do you make of these numbers?

[Bio-Active]

What time of day did you have your levels run? They will be highest in the am and lowest at night.

[blacksmoke]

The initial tests were done at 730 AM and the last set were done at 430 PM.
How much variation could a person expect from morning to night?

[blacksmoke]

So I went and saw the urologist today and he thought it best to see an endo before starting TRT. He wants to find out why the low free t and symptoms before treating them. I'll probably have to wait at least 3 weeks to see the endo, then blood tests, back to endo then urologist. This process is ridiculous. In the end it better all be worth it.
I also asked what he thought about the best treatment options and he said that adrogel was the best because of the constant levels and that injections are the worst. I mentioned that I would probably like injections the best and he seemed open to it. If I do end up on TRT, hopefully he doesn't change his mind.

[Bio-Active]

So I went and saw the urologist today and he thought it best to see an endo before starting TRT. He wants to find out why the low free t and symptoms before treating them. I'll probably have to wait at least 3 weeks to see the endo, then blood tests, back to endo then urologist. This process is ridiculous. In the end it better all be worth it.
I also asked what he thought about the best treatment options and he said that adrogel was the best because of the constant levels and that injections are the worst. I mentioned that I would probably like injections the best and he seemed open to it. If I do end up on TRT, hopefully he doesn't change his mind.

some like the gel and some dont. I prefer the injections

[flatscat]

fsh and lh seem low with your free t, something is going on with you. total while not great is better than those three. never saw an e2 value. ur shbg may be elevated, as something is taking from your total t reducing your free. remember that low free t is another diagnosis of being hypo so dont let any doc sell that fact short.

[GotNoBlueMilk]

Low LH and FSH points to depressed pituitary. If you were on T replacement that would be expected since the high T will supress those values. Because you hvae low T those values should be higher and would be if your pituitary was working better.

[blacksmoke]

I don't know what kind of wait times you guys have in the states but I think having to wait until august 4 is ridiculous. I am on a cancelation list so hopefully I can get in sooner to see the endo.

[Vettester]

Curious why your doctor said that injections are the "worst". Is it because he's getting lobbied by Team Gel,? thus it's better because they say so. I know too many guys (including myself) who had some unstable results with that stuff. Sounds like they're giving you a good stroke job. Don't worry, we have same "schmoes" running around in the US too.

[lovbyts]

I don't know what kind of wait times you guys have in the states but I think having to wait until august 4 is ridiculous. I am on a cancelation list so hopefully I can get in sooner to see the endo.

Wait time, whats that? OK once in a while I have to wait 3 or 4 days to get into my doctor but if I am sick I get in that day 90% of the time. Im sure with the health care reform that will change soon enough.

Tell your doctor you did research and you DONT want the gel because it can transfer topically to your wife, girlfriend, kids, nephews, nieces, dog, cat, etc. You get the idea. If he says it wont then ask him for a referral to a doctor that knows the difference between his a$$hole and a hole in the ground.

[blacksmoke]

Curious why your doctor said that injections are the "worst". Is it because he's getting lobbied by Team Gel,? thus it's better because they say so. I know too many guys (including myself) who had some unstable results with that stuff. Sounds like they're giving you a good stroke job. Don't worry, we have same "schmoes" running around in the US too.

He is probably thinking once every 2 or 3 week injections which I will not settle for.

[blacksmoke]

Wait time, whats that? OK once in a while I have to wait 3 or 4 days to get into my doctor but if I am sick I get in that day 90% of the time. Im sure with the health care reform that will change soon enough.

Tell your doctor you did research and you DONT want the gel because it can transfer topically to your wife, girlfriend, kids, nephews, nieces, dog, cat, etc. You get the idea. If he says it wont then ask him for a referral to a doctor that knows the difference between his a$$hole and a hole in the ground.

I will only take once a week injections if trt is the route I end up on.

[blacksmoke]

So I have been looking at the symptoms of hypothyroidism and starting to think that my low free t might be because of it. August 4 can't come soon enough.

[Vettester]

Aug 4??? WTF! That's got to be the craziest thing I've ever heard. And here I get frazzled when I can't get into my PP for 2 weeks.

[blacksmoke]

I could probably get into my regular doc by this afternoon but he doesn't seem to know sh*t!

[blacksmoke]

I finally got into the endo, he took a look at my numbers and said that he considered me to be normal. He did order two bioavailable and two total testosterone tests and once for lh, fsh. He wants a true look at my levels.
Hopefully the endo does not persuade my uro into not giving me trt.
Another thing he said was that if I lived in the states I would have a much easier time getting trt as it is over prescribed.

[lifter65]

your tsh is really high, anything over 3 is considered bad, also endos are a pain in the ass, not all of them, but most, and yeah the whole process is just ridiculous, all you want to do is get fixed and all these dif docs have you running around like an errand boy, i finally bit the bullet and made an appt with an anti aging doc, better be worth it

[blacksmoke]

So I got a script for androgel last month, and today convinced my uro to change it to test cyp. Finally!
100mg per week. No arimidex or HCG yet.
This guy knows very little about trt and admitted that to me. I would obviously prefer an experienced trt dr but he is my only choice. I actually had to tell him the name was cypionate.lol
He will let me home inject once he knows that I am able to.
I still only have my orignal bloods and will push to have them done once I'm home injecting. Same for an AI and HCG
I didn't want to push for everything all at once as I thought that would overwhelm him and just tell me no.
Just happy to have this almost all figured out!

[lifter65]

thats great, since he admitted to not knowing abour trt, im going to say that youre actually in good hands because it seems like he may be able/want to learn, obviously not the best but not the worst

[GotNoBlueMilk]

You can get arimidex (anastrozole) over the internet and it's very inexpensive. Ar-r.com, our sponsor, sells it as a research chemical for experimenting on your hamster. So a hamster taking 100 mg of Test Cyp every week should take bout 1 mg of anastrozole every week. Most hamsters break that out into smaller doses and dose every other day. Start with 0.25 EOD if your hamster has any estrogen symptoms.

It is always best to work with your doc on these things, but an AI is the kind of thing that your doc can only get you started on. In the end, you have to figure out the correct dose for yourself, based on what your body needs to control E2.

[zaggahamma]

You can get arimidex (anastrozole) over the internet and it's very inexpensive. Ar-r.com, our sponsor, sells it as a research chemical for experimenting on your hamster. So a hamster taking 100 mg of Test Cyp every week should take bout 1 mg of anastrozole every week. Most hamsters break that out into smaller doses and dose every other day. Start with 0.25 EOD if your hamster has any estrogen symptoms.

It is always best to work with your doc on these things, but an AI is the kind of thing that your doc can only get you started on. In the end, you have to figure out the correct dose for yourself, based on what your body needs to control E2.

well said
and i always look at it like EDUCATE YOURSELF and the doctor becomes the script writer solely...since it is my decision ultimately i dont want anything but information and suggestion

[steroid.com 1]

So I got a script for androgel last month, and today convinced my uro to change it to test cyp. Finally!
100mg per week. No arimidex or HCG yet.
This guy knows very little about trt and admitted that to me. I would obviously prefer an experienced trt dr but he is my only choice. I actually had to tell him the name was cypionate.lol
He will let me home inject once he knows that I am able to.
I still only have my orignal bloods and will push to have them done once I'm home injecting. Same for an AI and HCG
I didn't want to push for everything all at once as I thought that would overwhelm him and just tell me no.
Just happy to have this almost all figured out!

Jumping into this thread late I know, but...

For your age your TSH level is way way to high. Many of the symptoms you feel may well indeed be attributed to this along with your Test values. As noted here, anything over 3 is a problem. Optimal TSH levels are 1 to 2; anything higher then that will not only pose neg sides BUT puts you at significant risk of cardiovascular disease later on in life...shit you not. You need to see TSH, Free T4 and Free T3, RT3 at a minimum.

Your FSH an LH panels, while not clinically low are at the bottom of the "normal" range...and presenting with symptoms...highly suggests a problem.

Do you know that Dr. John Crisler will consult with your Endo and help him get your right? He charges a fee, however, it's modest in light of the help you need from a Doc who openly admits not understanding these types of protocols.

Might want to give it serious consideration...I know I would.

Don't let him tell you are normal, a lot of Endo's "in the know" know that the TSH ranges are not representative of health. In fact some labs are now lowing the high end of TSH to 3 and some even to 2.5! You need to understand why your TSH levels are so high. Your thyroid gland is not functioning normally and I am willing to bet a case of beers you have a hypothyroid.

[blacksmoke]

You can get arimidex (anastrozole) over the internet and it's very inexpensive. Ar-r.com, our sponsor, sells it as a research chemical for experimenting on your hamster. So a hamster taking 100 mg of Test Cyp every week should take bout 1 mg of anastrozole every week. Most hamsters break that out into smaller doses and dose every other day. Start with 0.25 EOD if your hamster has any estrogen symptoms.

It is always best to work with your doc on these things, but an AI is the kind of thing that your doc can only get you started on. In the end, you have to figure out the correct dose for yourself, based on what your body needs to control E2.

I had a pretty good idea that I would eventually need some liquidex so its already in hand.
So is it better to wait for sides to show or start dosing after the first inject?

[blacksmoke]

Jumping into this thread late I know, but...

For your age your TSH level is way way to high. Many of the symptoms you feel may well indeed be attributed to this along with your Test values. As noted here, anything over 3 is a problem. Optimal TSH levels are 1 to 2; anything higher then that will not only pose neg sides BUT puts you at significant risk of cardiovascular disease later on in life...shit you not. You need to see TSH, Free T4 and Free T3, RT3 at a minimum.


Your FSH an LH panels, while not clinically low are at the bottom of the "normal" range...and presenting with symptoms...highly suggests a problem.

Do you know that Dr. John Crisler will consult with your Endo and help him get your right? He charges a fee, however, it's modest in light of the help you need from a Doc who openly admits not understanding these types of protocols.

Might want to give it serious consideration...I know I would.

Don't let him tell you are normal, a lot of Endo's "in the know" know that the TSH ranges are not representative of health. In fact some labs are now lowing the high end of TSH to 3 and some even to 2.5! You need to understand why your TSH levels are so high. Your thyroid gland is not functioning normally and I am willing to bet a case of beers you have a hypothyroid.

I talked about everthing that you mentioned to my endo to no avail. He was very stubborn and set in his ways. He really didn't seem to like the fact that I knew as much as I did.
Everytime I brought up a new point he shut me down, just didn't want to here it.

As for my uro, once I feel comfortable I will bring up Dr Chrisler. I actually had a printout of his ready for yesterday but opted to wait.
Will Dr Chrisler deal with thyroid issues? Thanks for the input.

[steroid.com 1]

I talked about everthing that you mentioned to my endo to no avail. He was very stubborn and set in his ways. He really didn't seem to like the fact that I knew as much as I did.
Everytime I brought up a new point he shut me down, just didn't want to here it.

As for my uro, once I feel comfortable I will bring up Dr Chrisler. I actually had a printout of his ready for yesterday but opted to wait.
Will Dr Chrisler deal with thyroid issues? Thanks for the input.

As per my PM; yes.

That Endo is hurting you. Plead your case to the Uro and have everything ready for him to read. You'll find the right help soon.

BTW, are their compounding pharmacies in Canada? If so, you can search for ones near you (Google Earth: search on "compounding Pharmacies" and see). If so, they can usually help in referring Docs who prescribe TRT protocols complete with Test Cyp, HCG and Anastrozole.

[zaggahamma]

Jumping into this thread late I know, but...

For your age your TSH level is way way to high. Many of the symptoms you feel may well indeed be attributed to this along with your Test values. As noted here, anything over 3 is a problem. Optimal TSH levels are 1 to 2; anything higher then that will not only pose neg sides BUT puts you at significant risk of cardiovascular disease later on in life...shit you not. You need to see TSH, Free T4 and Free T3, RT3 at a minimum.

Your FSH an LH panels, while not clinically low are at the bottom of the "normal" range...and presenting with symptoms...highly suggests a problem.

Do you know that Dr. John Crisler will consult with your Endo and help him get your right? He charges a fee, however, it's modest in light of the help you need from a Doc who openly admits not understanding these types of protocols.

Might want to give it serious consideration...I know I would.

Don't let him tell you are normal, a lot of Endo's "in the know" know that the TSH ranges are not representative of health. In fact some labs are now lowing the high end of TSH to 3 and some even to 2.5! You need to understand why your TSH levels are so high. Your thyroid gland is not functioning normally and I am willing to bet a case of beers you have a hypothyroid.

the quality of your posts will outweigh any tardiness to the party bro...great post as usual

[GotNoBlueMilk]

I had a pretty good idea that I would eventually need some liquidex so its already in hand.
So is it better to wait for sides to show or start dosing after the first inject?

That depends on where your baseline E2 was. Mine was at 4, after doing HRT for two weeks it went up to 28. Problem was I am gyno prone and got sore nipples at 28.

You probably will need AI unless you have very low body fat and don't convert T to E2 much. If you feel good for a couple weeks then start feeling like the honeymoon is over, it is probably E2 rising. Obviously, if you get symptoms then start right away.

[steroid.com 1]

the quality of your posts will outweigh any tardiness to the party bro...great post as usual

Coming from you; big compliment. Thanks man, just trying to help the brothers!

[blacksmoke]

As per my PM; yes.

That Endo is hurting you. Plead your case to the Uro and have everything ready for him to read. You'll find the right help soon.

BTW, are their compounding pharmacies in Canada? If so, you can search for ones near you (Google Earth: search on "compounding Pharmacies" and see). If so, they can usually help in referring Docs who prescribe TRT protocols complete with Test Cyp, HCG and Anastrozole.

Theres actually a compounding pharmacy 5 mins from my house. I'll have to go and ask some questions.

[blacksmoke]

Jumping into this thread late I know, but...

For your age your TSH level is way way to high. Many of the symptoms you feel may well indeed be attributed to this along with your Test values. As noted here, anything over 3 is a problem. Optimal TSH levels are 1 to 2; anything higher then that will not only pose neg sides BUT puts you at significant risk of cardiovascular disease later on in life...shit you not. You need to see TSH, Free T4 and Free T3, RT3 at a minimum.

Your FSH an LH panels, while not clinically low are at the bottom of the "normal" range...and presenting with symptoms...highly suggests a problem.

Do you know that Dr. John Crisler will consult with your Endo and help him get your right? He charges a fee, however, it's modest in light of the help you need from a Doc who openly admits not understanding these types of protocols.

Might want to give it serious consideration...I know I would.

Don't let him tell you are normal, a lot of Endo's "in the know" know that the TSH ranges are not representative of health. In fact some labs are now lowing the high end of TSH to 3 and some even to 2.5! You need to understand why your TSH levels are so high. Your thyroid gland is not functioning normally and I am willing to bet a case of beers you have a hypothyroid.

What is RT3? Never heard of that one. More research!

[zaggahamma]

What is RT3? Never heard of that one. More research!

think it was a typo bro...T3 he meant...he likes to throw a few back from time to time...and imma lil late editing for a brutha....T3