Nandrolone and Possibly Going off TRT

[Imatk]

So I've been on TRT now for almost two years and in the last year I've developed knee problems and most recently I had a rotator cuff injury.

I read about TestCyp inhibiting collegen synthesis and causing tendons to become brittle and I believe that's exactly what is happening to me since I've never had knee or shoulder problems like this.

I asked my doc today about Nandrolone and he wouldn't prescribe it to me, he told me to just reduce the amount of test I was injecting.

I'm thinking however that I may just go off it until this shoulder heals. It's been about three months almost and I haven't been lifting at all with it and although it's "better" I still can't lift or really strain it without it hurting.

I'd like to hear what some of you guys who know this stuff inside and out think.

Thanks

[lvs]

What is your current TRT protocol and how does your bloodwork look?

[Chemical engineer]

Fish oil [3g of omega 3s] and glucosimine has done a world of good for me. The fish oil helps block inflammation and the Gluc. and chondrotin helped grow knee cartlidge back in my knee. Doctor video taped surgery and showed where it regenerated. Once it is bone on bone it is gone. I think it is worth a try. I have heard from many that Deca is very useful for your dilema

[bass]

this is news to me, it worked the opposite for me! injuries are caused by lifting too heavy or incorrectly, and they will take months if not a year or so to heal, but if you have torn tendons only surgery can fix that. all pro bodybuilders take excessive amounts of testosterone and other steroids for years, if that was the case all of them would be crippled within few years. have you done an MRI to see whats going on? BTW deca hellped with my joints.

[Brohim]

Deca will only hold water in the joint's causing temp. relief from lubrication. I dont' think it heals anything.

[Brohim]

Anavar or HGH and peptides can promote collegen synthesis. So maybe look into those?

[APIs]

this is news to me, it worked the opposite for me! injuries are caused by lifting too heavy or incorrectly, and they will take months if not a year or so to heal, but if you have torn tendons only surgery can fix that. all pro bodybuilders take excessive amounts of testosterone and other steroids for years, if that was the case all of them would be crippled within few years. have you done an MRI to see whats going on? BTW deca hellped with my joints.

x2. I dont think your problems are connected to TRT. I've been through many surgeries due to lifting heavy all the time. 2 R/C tear repairs on the same shoulder among others. These all occured before I started TRT. I've actually experienced less injury since starting TRT and my prior surgery sites have actually improved overall since starting. If you do indeed have a R/C Tear, just get it fixed. Sports medicine is so advanced now, there's no reason to let pain hold you back. My $0.02...

[Imatk]

I had read about the TestCyp inhibiting collegen synthesis, so I kind of attributed my injuries to that. Before going on TRT I never had problems with my knees or shoulder, have been working out since I was 16 and am now 40. Perhaps it's just I'm gettin old I don't know

I do take Osteo Bi Flex as I had elbow surgery (broken elbows) about two years ago so I know that does indeed help, but this shoulder thing just won't go away.

[dec11]

deca is a waste of time for this. ive rotator probs that started from before i used AAS and using AAS didnt make it worse, infact when i up my dose for a blast, i get relief. just rest the shoulder and get it seen to. test wouldnt have caused the injury, take a look at your warm up, exercise and stretching routine.

some exercises over time will gradually wear some joints, i never had any trouble till my early 30's, flat bench and flyes are a disaster for rotator probs

[ecdysone]

I read about TestCyp inhibiting collegen synthesis and causing tendons to become brittle and I believe that's exactly what is happening to me since I've never had knee or shoulder problems like this.

I think that may be an over simplification. What is probably the case, with very high test use, E2 sharply climbs. E2 might inhibit collagen synthesis in men.

Good news: most of us on TRT add in a AI to control E2.

Better news: HCG has been shown to stimulate collagen production.

Not that there is anything wrong with switching to nandrolone... it has alot of advantages over test.

Good luck whatever you do, and let us known how it goes!

[Vettester]

Agree with the others ... Going off TRT won't be the solution. Not only will your aches and pains still be looming, but you're going to be in a dark place when your "T" level drops to the basement.

[dec11]

I think that may be an over simplification. What is probably the case, with very high test use, E2 sharply climbs. E2 might inhibit collagen synthesis in men.

Good news: most of us on TRT add in a AI to control E2.

Better news: HCG has been shown to stimulate collagen production.

Not that there is anything wrong with switching to nandrolone... it has alot of advantages over test.

Good luck whatever you do, and let us known how it goes!

explain please?

[ecdysone]

explain please?

Was just referring to the "anabolic side" of things. Deca is a more mild agent in this regard and doesn't metabolize much to E2, so gyno/water retention not such an issue.

Those who might be using high doses of test could mix the two with beneficial effects.

[flatscat]

^^^^^ Ah, but you said switching which was obviously a typo (I hope).

OP, After coming off for a short period myself, I can not with a good conscience recommend coming off your trt for the reasons you list. As Vette said, far more negatives than what you are experiencing now. But it is your choice to make, just be prepared if you make that decision.

Flats

[ecdysone]

^^^^^ Ah, but you said switching which was obviously a typo (I hope).

Right, you are!

Should have inserted the word "some" in there.

Was suggesting that switching some of his test to nandrolone thereby getting the unique benefits of both.

[dec11]

Right, you are!

Should have inserted the word "some" in there.

Was suggesting that switching some of his test to nandrolone thereby getting the unique benefits of both.

that makes for better reading although i wouldnt sat deca causes less water retention, its one of the major water loggers

[ecdysone]

Except I'm suggesting something like 75 mg nandrolone/125 mg test each week. E2 and therefore water retention shouldn't be an issue.

[JD250]

Deca has provided lots of relief for many folks with joint issues and even some relief with rotator problems, but like Dec 11 has stated in the past, it doesn't help EVERYONE with shoulder or joint issues.

As far as the OP, I believe the only study I've read that infers that Test inhibits collogen synthesis was referring to HIGH doses which in turn would only be taken for shorter periods of time and not really pertain to TRT. It's believed that if you keep test and Deca both below 300ish a week you will get the best collogen effect.

Maybe some of the problems you're having with your joints is that your able to do be more active and lift more and move with the sort of strength that you haven't known in a while, I feel your pain bro, getting old sucks and if those joints are worn down unfortunately TRT won't magically fix them.

[flatscat]

Except I'm suggesting something like 75 mg nandrolone/125 mg test each week. E2 and therefore water retention shouldn't be an issue.

I don't recall ever hearing of anyone obtaining any relief or benefits at 75/week.

[JD250]

I've heard this claim before, maybe in a study somewhere but I haven't actually heard first hand results from a member. If you guys send me 300 bucks I'll guinea pig myself for the good of the membership.

[ecdysone]

I don't recall ever hearing of anyone obtaining any relief or benefits at 75/week.

THere'sl several studies along the lines of this one:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20974577

But can't say if collagen synthesis was directly studied or not... would need to look around a bit more.

[JD250]

ecdysone....after looking at your posts I realized that you referred to the "anabolic" effect, I agree with the synergistic anabolic effect of test and deca together even in small doses. It would be interesting to see what the lowest dose would be that still helps with collogen.

[JD250]

Where's Bass? I just read an old thread where he said he experienced some joint relief from 50 mgs of Deca a week for 5 weeks.

[dec11]

ecdysone....after looking at your posts I realized that you referred to the "anabolic" effect, I agree with the synergistic anabolic effect of test and deca together even in small doses. It would be interesting to see what the lowest dose would be that still helps with collogen.

dunno mate, i added 200mg deca to my 200mg trt for 14wks before and didnt notice much of anything, including no joint relief

[JD250]

Have you cycled before? Maybe you're such an animal that you don't notice small gains anymore. As for the joint relief, I would suppose it depends on what is causing the pain, Deca wont reattach connective tissue on a rotator cuff.

Everyone is different.

[Imatk]

Thanks for all the responses guys. I'm kind of inclined to agree with some of you that perhaps the test has allowed me to gain more strength than I had before. Because before I hurt my shoulder (damn shoulder) I was probably in the best shape of my entire life.

I had always had trouble making gains since I was a kid (skinny) but after adjusting my diet things turned around. Then going on the TRT was simply awesome. After my initial tests my levels were way below normal and my doc suggested it may have been that way for some time.

I guess I'll just have to keep resting it. I'm to the point where I might go get an MRI or whatever and see if I did some kind of permanent damage.

[swllce]

I added in deca 100 mg /wk to my trt (100mg test C/wk), for shoulder pain and knee issues.
The shoulder pain turned out to be a bulged disc in my neck ,i just got the mri results. (Cervical disc protrusion c5,c6)
I haven't done any upper body lifting for 5 months because of the pain and muscle weakness in my neck, traps, deltoids,scapula etc.The nandrolone resolved my knee pain,so
i have been doing alot of cardio and leg work that i couldn't do before.
The benefit of this is that i kept my upper body mass despite the injury.Without the Nandrolone i would have had considerable muscle atrophy.
1/2 cc /wk has been very helpful to bridge me through this injury.
I would never run it without hcg and test,one dose of 100 mg of nandrolone will shut down your own test production.