Hormone Repla***ent Therary Question for 43yr Man

[RexRacer]

For the longest time I didn't know want the hell was wrong with me. I couldn't sleep, I was gaining weight, I was moody all the time. I was constantly fight with my wife.
My doctor put me on anti depressant which allowed me to mellow out, zoned out and placed in a daze of compliance until my wife said there was something else wrong with me and the drug was just covering it.
My doctor sent me to a sleep doctor who diagnosis me with sleep apnea and was prescribed a machine to wear all night long. Sorry I couldn't do it.

Then my doctor wanted to test my testosterone, it came back a 56 out of a scale where 1000 is a the high end of normal.

He gave me a shot and the very next day I was a changed man.

My battery levels came back to normal. I was so excited that life hasn't ended after all and that I got a long way to go! HELL YEAH MAN!

After a year of therapy being on the pellets I couldn't take the roller coaster ride that pellets gave me after 3 1/2 months its all gone then you have to get tested again then insurance has to approve it then it cost an extra 75 for the procedure. So I asked to get shots. .5ml a week. at .5ml a week it would last about 4 days then you would crash hard. Crashing is rough, I don't like it at all. So I read around I started taking 4 days Mondays and Thursday.

I like this rotation of shots It keeps my levels up and I don't feel any droppage at all. Very Happy with this.

But I just got my T-level results from my doctor and they were up to 1305 he said I need to bring it down to 890. I know 1305 is above normal but is that really going to hurt me?

See, I'm back in the gym and yeah I got about 60 lbs to lose but I'm pumped and I'm working on it, I'm getting more serious about my weight lifting. I so excited about getting back in shape and I'm ready to live again!

Now that I'm on HRT I feel its given me an extra boost and I'm greatly inspired by what it can do for me.

Any way I decided to drop my injections to .4ml and work it from there and see what happens.

My Question is - how much is to much Testosterone.

Thank you

[SEOINAGE]

What type of testosterone is your shot?

[RexRacer]

The label says "Testosterone Cypionate"

[bass]

welcome here Rex! i had no idea we have batteries! LOL! common protocol is 100-200 mgs ew along with AI and hCG. some are prescribed more and some less but generally 100-200 is the most common. to be healthy you need to keep your levels in range, upper range preferably, most importantly your Free T needs to be in the upper range more so than your total. what is your complete protocol?

[bass]

.................... double post!

[RexRacer]

Bass, thank you for responding. I'm not sure what your asking me. I only know what the doctor tells me. I feel I gotta be honest with my doctor cause he seems skeptical of my use of the testosterone already. He wants me to cut back to one shot ever 7 days but like I said my levels go down after about 3 1/2 to 4 days. And I find that my levels stay consistent when I do my injections every 4 days One on Monday and the other on Thursday.
I only know what the doctor tells me. He said my T level was 1305 where 890 was normal and wanted me to cut back to my one .5ml shot every 7 days regiment.
He never mention anything about Free T and I'm not sure want you mean about my complete protocol. Sorry for not understand but can you please elaborate . I know I'm a nubie.

[bass]

thats fine, read the stickies so you can get educated on this stuff and be informed so you can communicate better with your doc and get treated properly. a complete protocol consists of,

testosterone
AI
hCG

read the stickies so you know why you need them. BTW, not sure which lab you used but labcorp's range for testosterone is 348-1197 so your not that far off. splitting your dose to twice a week will give you better consistency and you'll avoid the roller coaster effect. you're doing shots every 4 days, in this case you'll do them every 3.5 days.

[JohnnyVegas]

Welcome.

Your levels are outside the norm now, so he wants to bring them down a bit. Nothing wrong with that. Higher levels can cause more side effects, so it is good to stay in the normal range when on TRT.

Many of us inject Cyp twice a week like you do. I inject every 3.5 days. Sunday morning and Wednesday evening. Easy peasy. Many guys inject once a week with great results...so your call.

There is a lot of info here to digest, but you will catch on pretty quick, and you can ask all the questions you want.

[RexRacer]

Bass,
Thanks for the info. I will be reading the stickies to educate myself. Plus I want to be able to communicate with the board and my doctor.

[RexRacer]

JohnnyVegas,
Thanks for the kind words and encouragement! I think I'll try your 3.5 day routine. Sunday mornings and Wednesday nights!
I will cut down my injections to .4ml That should bring it down some what.

[lvs]

How many mg/ml? When did you have your blood drawn, in number of days after your shot?

[JohnnyVegas]

How many mg/ml? When did you have your blood drawn, in number of days after your shot?

I didn't think about that. If you doc doesn't know what he is doing, you could very well have pulled blood too soon.

For reference: I have blood drawn on injection day (before my injection, of course) so I have gone a full seven days. That tells us what my levels are when I am at the bottom of the curve.

[steroid.com 1]

Right now Total Testosterone is less important a value than his Bio Available or Percent Free.

1305 is a bit high and possibly supraphysiological but the bigger question is when did he get tested relative to his injection...he could have been peaking.

Rex - Your levels peak at days 3 and 4 and I find it interesting you can feel a difference after that; half life of the drug is 6 to 7 days.

Are you taking anything to control aromatization like an AI?

How about hCG to keep you testicles alive and functioning?

[RexRacer]

I took my shot late Thursday night and had my blood drawn around 3:30pm on Monday, and had another injection later that night.

I can feel a difference after about 5 days from an injection, I get moody and all weird like. Its not a nice feeling very hard to describe.

I am taking Bass suggestion and reading as much as I can about protocols.

I'm not taking anything else other than Whey shakes and Multivitamins.

I'm not sure what aromatization is and why I need it but you can bet your ass I'm going to be looking up info about hCG and why your asking me if I'm taking any to keep my testicles alive.

Jesus.. Doc didn't say nothing about my testicles dying!

Thanks everyone for helping me out. I feel stupid or maybe intimated about all this.

Rex

[bass]

don't feel intimidated or stupid, most of us been in your shoes, but thanks God for this place we all got help and on the right track! keep asking, its the only way you get answers!

[RexRacer]

gdevine,

Hey thanks for posting a sticky on hCG. VERY informative!

You mentioned in the sticky that men do not have to have hCG while on TRT.

Do you have to wait till your balls began to die before you know you need it? and is the damage repairable?

[RexRacer]

Just read another sticky , so I need to call my doctor and ask what my Free Testosterone score was and what test was used (RIA, FWRA,UF) to get the Range I need.


Maybe he didn’t test for Free… Maybe I should try one of the home testing kits to find out my Free T Score?

[jamotech]

So Rex, what do you race?

[jamotech]

gdevine,

Hey thanks for posting a sticky on hCG. VERY informative!

You mentioned in the sticky that men do not have to have hCG while on TRT.

Do you have to wait till your balls began to die before you know you need it? and is the damage repairable?

HCG has many benefits, one keeping your testes functional.

[Ratt]

How many mg/ml? When did you have your blood drawn, in number of days after your shot?

Rex,
On your current dosage how many mgs of test are you injecting per week. If your injecting .5ml twice a week you could be getting 200mg. As Bass mentioned earlier, a normal starting dose is usually 100-200mg week. If your getting 200mg that could be why your in the 1300 range.
For me anything over 150mg/week will push me above 1100. Everyone is different and it takes time to get dialed but your in the right place to educate yourself.

[kelkel]

If I read it correctly you are taking your prescribed weekly dosage and compressing it to every 4 days? Therein lies the problem. Cut your weekly dosage in half and inject that amount every 3.5 days, not the full amount. Keep reading the stickies. And Bass, you don't have batteries, you have one of those side crank thingys!

[JohnnyVegas]

And Bass, you don't have batteries, you have one of those side crank thingys!

Burrrrrrrrn. Heh.

[Vettester]

Good advise from the guys. Keep studying and asking questions. Like GD, I'm a little concerned about the aromatization subject, especially considering you're talking about the need to drop 60lbs, and your testosterone is quite high. Both situations put you at risk to have an increase in estrogen, which you probably know is counterproductive to your program. See what the doctor says about running an E2 lab-Sensitive. If he says it's not needed, then you are not in good hands for a long-term program.

[bass]

If I read it correctly you are taking your prescribed weekly dosage and compressing it to every 4 days? Therein lies the problem. Cut your weekly dosage in half and inject that amount every 3.5 days, not the full amount. Keep reading the stickies. And Bass, you don't have batteries, you have one of those side crank thingys!

you mean kick-starter?!

[RexRacer]

I would like to thank everyone who help me out on this.

I will start by cutting my dose to .3ML every 3 1/2 days (Monday Mornings & Thursday Nights)

Question: I know it depends on the person but this sound normal T injection regiment to everyone here?

Question: Do I need to be taking HCG? or is that my Doctors call?

Question: I read up on Aromatization and should I be taking something for it? or is that too my Doctors call?

Question: Since I'm hitting the Gym hot and heavy again while taking T is there anything else that can benefit me and or enhance what the hormone is doing?

I've lost a lot of weight, I feel good and I'm excited about it all. At 43 I'm pissed I wasted my youth, how come priority's change as you get old you really start to realize whats important when it's practically gone.

Thanks everyone for making me feel welcome.

I yesterday I posted this topic on Bodybuilding.com first and immediately got reprimanded for talking about prescribed things. I deleted it 5 mins after I posted it and searched for another forum and found you guys.

[Brohim]

What do you mean you p away your youth? ANyway most guy's take 60mg twice a week that is around 120mg a week. And I would say most guys do take an ancillary (AI) to lower there E2 to the optimal range. Some guy's don't take any. (You will only know if you need one by your blood panel and looking at your e2) And HCG is recommened to help keeping your nuts from shriveling. And it also helps give you a better mood. So yes I would ask the doc for some HCG if he can get you some.

And better gym workouts, DIET! Make sure you are eating plain foods, no processed foods. Just chicken, egg whites, turkey, and veggies, (spinanch, celery, red and yellow peppers, mushrooms, brocolli, asparagus) nuts (almonds, pecans) oats, almond butter. Protein shakes are ok make sure they don't have high carbs. Just 100% whey isolate is the best after workout's.

Stay away from ALL sugar. just drink water and green tea no coke product's. Make sure you lift weights and do cardio. Do 30 minutes low intensity after your lift's or you can do cardio in the mourning for 30-45 minutes and also after you lift in the evenings for additonal fat burning.

Sugar is like eating fat. Your body processes it like alcohol and has detremental effect's on your body composition.

Buy some creatine and a good multivitamin. I use OPTI-men. Drink at least 3 liter's or more of water a day. Get you one of those BPA free 24oz water bottles and make sure you drink at least 3 of those a day.

[bullshark99]

Cant over much that wasnt already said, keep reading the stickies. Estrogen, use of A.I. imperative at your Tes levels, take that seriously or you will encounter very unwelcome sides! regarding your level being above range, you probably were peaking regarding your last shot, but dont "freak out" just because you are a litle over the top end, not gonna hurt you short term, just something you want to get dialed in amongst other things. Many Docs use 200 as a cutoff for cholesterol, if your level was 210, doesnt mean your gonna have a coronary.

[steroid.com 1]

I would like to thank everyone who help me out on this.
Glade to see you learning...it's already showing. If your Doctor is not "in the know" you may well end up knowing more about correct protocols than he does; trust me, we see it here all the time. Keep studying...Google is your friend!

I will start by cutting my dose to .3ML every 3 1/2 days (Monday Mornings & Thursday Nights)
Perfect; my Test injection protocol for more than 2 years now! This will help with E2 management and keep more consistent and stable Testosterone levels.

Question: I know it depends on the person but this sound normal T injection regiment to everyone here?
Ideal!

Question: Do I need to be taking HCG? or is that my Doctors call?
You need hCG for many reasons, but what you need to know is that by taking exogenous Testosterone you are causing a self induced organ shutdown namely your testicles do to HPTA suppression. You need to understand the mechanics of HPTA suppression and why it's important to back-fill your pathways...and hCG help to do just that as an LH analog. You should also be supplementing DHEA and Pregnenolone now as well...again, back-filling pathways. I believe Life Extension is now selling micronized versions of both which is great news!!!

Question: I read up on Aromatization and should I be taking something for it? or is that too my Doctors call?
To control aromatization you need what is called an aromatase inhibitor (AI). Most common is Anastrozol or Arimidex. Most men who inject Testosterone will need to add a small dose in each week. Some men blessed with great livers can go without but they are few and far between. Many men on gels/creams seem to do okay without an AI. You'll know when you need it because the symptoms are clear cut. There's a thread in here now on just that so take a peek.

Question: Since I'm hitting the Gym hot and heavy again while taking T is there anything else that can benefit me and or enhance what the hormone is doing?
30 min fast walk every day and as noted diet...try to eat clean!

I've lost a lot of weight, I feel good and I'm excited about it all. At 43 I'm pissed I wasted my youth, how come priority's change as you get old you really start to realize whats important when it's practically gone.
You've taking the correct steps but you need a few more but you will get there!

Thanks everyone for making me feel welcome.

I yesterday I posted this topic on Bodybuilding.com first and immediately got reprimanded for talking about prescribed things. I deleted it 5 mins after I posted it and searched for another forum and found you guys.

You will come to see that the men (and some women) here truly care for one another; there is no bickering or badgering just a good deal of respect for each other. Funny, Kel and I were talking the other night on just this topic...just really good guys here for sure!!!

See Bold above.

[RexRacer]

Sweet!! Thanks guys..

Brohim, I've never been interested in bodybuilding. But I'm so into it now and very excited about my possibilities. I could have done so much more in my youth.

I'm purchasing the Optimum Men's Weight Loss Stack on BBdotcom which gives me
Optimum Gold Standard 100% Whey, 5 Lbs.
Optimum Opti-Men, 90 Tablets
Optimum CLA Softgels, 90 Softgels
Optimum Essential AmiN.O. Energy, 30 Servings
And I'm thinking of throwing in the MusclePharm Shred Matrix 120 Capsules to help was some weight loss.

On top of taking your advice about the water and the BPA free 24ox water bottle.

[RexRacer]

gdevine,

Is asking for a prescription for HGC as simple as calling up my doctor? I'm sure I'll get his nurse but simply asking her to relay to my doctor that I would like a prescription for HCG to prevent HPTA suppression and a aromatase inhibitor do the trick?

[ecdysone]

RR, just one small piece of advice: you need to be more tuned into your labwork. Now that you're making a protocol change, wait 2-4 weeks and get a decent hormone panel. Read the stickies and you can get an idea of what you should request, but at the minimum you need a total & free test level, estradiol, and it wouldn't hurt to have SHBG and maybe DHEA and a few of the others. You also need a comprehensive metabolic panel/blood panels because HDL and hemocrit can be greatly affected by TRT. If you already have those, great, if not get them asap because you need baseline values. If your Doc is reluctant to order any of them, it can be done privately.

[JohnnyVegas]

I will start by cutting my dose to .3ML every 3 1/2 days (Monday Mornings & Thursday Nights)

You might want to start thinking of your dose in MG rather than ML. You are doing .3ml twice a week, so .6ml per week. The important thing is not the volume (ML) but the amount of Test, which is 120mg/wk assuming that your Cyp is dosed at 200mg/ml. This is important since not all Test is dosed at 200mg/ml. For example, if for some reason you started to use something that was dosed at 100mg/ml you would need to take twice the volume since your goal is 120mg/wk.

It is the mg/week that is important.

[steroid.com 1]

gdevine,

Is asking for a prescription for HGC as simple as calling up my doctor? I'm sure I'll get his nurse but simply asking her to relay to my doctor that I would like a prescription for HCG to prevent HPTA suppression and a aromatase inhibitor do the trick?

It may be and it may not.

Some Docs don't understand the need for hCG and think it's only for bodybuilders.

Some Docs don't understand the need for AI and don't know the process of aromatization...hell, some don't think it's even necessary to test E2!

Your Doc may want you to wait a bit and get next round of BW before he introduces these other two drugs...but it never hurts to know where he stands or if he understands...don't be surprised if he doesn't.

[flatscat]

I am 43 as well and we shared a lot of the same experiences pre trt. Get settled into a solid protocol and stay there for a while. Pay attention to your body as well as your labs 4-5 weeks after you make the change and additions.

Flats