just wondering what kinda sides you guys watch for when using deca or i guess any 19nor for tht matter before throwing in anti-progesteronic compounds
Member
just wondering what kinda sides you guys watch for when using deca or i guess any 19nor for tht matter before throwing in anti-progesteronic compounds
Junior Member
watch out for your dick to stop working...lol and always take test with decca..decca will shut your natural t levels completly
Knowledgeable Member
I have a question for YOU: Would you still use Deca if I posted a recent human research showing that Deca is 11 times more damaging to blood vessels than testosterone? (which results in premature aging of vessels and much increased risk of cardiovascular diseases and chance of stroke, unless you do not consider these as side effects.)
Last edited by Turkish Juicer; 03-09-2012 at 12:54 PM.
Member
can you post the article?Originally Posted by Turkish Juicer
Last edited by adamjames; 03-09-2012 at 12:57 PM.
Member
.................
Knowledgeable Member
I am sorry about the mistyping in my initial entry. I have edited it as you can see now.
Yes, I can post the article but I am afraid it will start a shitstorm.
Member
no harm in posting it mate, or have you got a link?
Productive Member
I don't know why you think it would start a "shitstorm". Results of clinical trials are one of the most beneficial sources of information we have here. Unless you fear that you have misinterpreted the results of said clinical trial, or are the scientist who conducted the trial, I can't possibly see why you would be reluctant to post it.
Banned
Nothing wrong with posting it. Go for it.
Junior Member
http://www.ergo-log.com/nandrotest.html i think this is the one i read this months ago when i was researching Nandralone
Banned
absolutely post it! are you kidding me? that's what this website's foundation is. clinical and personal information backed by either clinical studies or sound personal experience. the information is then shared and discussed. and that's what makes this the premier AAS site on the entire net my friend. so, have no fear and post away
Associate Member
Everything in moderation
Knowledgeable Member
OK, there it is guys:
http://www.ergo-log.com/nandrotest.html
Junior Member
Thankyou for posting that! What an awesome site! How could I not know about that one?! there are heaps of interesting studies on there. Brought about the end of my nandrolone use too I would say.
Junior Member
There's another interesting study on there, not very comprehensive but interesting. I'd like to post the link but am not allowed. If you go to that site and click on the "Anabolic compounds" link it's the third one down titled "Recovery from a Deca course can take up to a year"
Banned
Deca is one drug that is vastly misunderstand and labeled as little to side effects which is completely wrong. I for one have never used and will never use deca. Way better compounds out there with less sides than deca. Thank you for posting this
Knowledgeable Member
Well, I am glad I was helpful at the least with the link I provided concerning Nandralone.
DGHGM: I have never been a fan of Deca, a weak compound to begin with that requires high doses and prolonged cycles which also comes with too many sides for me. I just can't stand the moonface throughout the cycle (aka deca-face). On top of these, now I know that 100mg of Deca will cause my blood vessels a damage that is 11 times more than Test, meaning my blood vessels will be 11 times more/faster prematurely aged and I will be hence inclined to any circularity system deficiency related cardiovascular disease 11 times more on the same token.
In addition, I also think there is yet another myth revolving around Deca that it keeps the joints young by lubricating them. You will hear this even from experienced AAS users, although I have not yet come across with a single human study that seems to support this. I can see how joints would suffer less from heavy training on a Deca course, since Deca leads to massive edema for known reasons, meaning that it is pretty much the opposite of Winstrol to joints in that regard. Nevertheless, this does not mean that Deca is a joint healing drug or anything along those lines. Oxymoron in deca's joint relief argument is that, any long estered Test will do the same for joints as far as lubrication caused by edema is concerned, especially combined with a high carb diet while cycling. So, what is the deal with Deca, really?
In the last analysis, Deca is an extremely well known AAS around the globe, if not a legend already, mostly due to the fact that it has been around for a long time and it has its place in written AAS literature since Duchaine introduced it. Thus, most underground labs produce it, as an inevitable consequence of law of supply-demand, and it is a compound that will never vanish IMO.
Knowledgeable Member
bump
Last edited by Turkish Juicer; 03-10-2012 at 01:53 AM.
New Member
Wow...
New Member
This shit gets more and more complicated the deeper I go... Turkish Juicer, what's your AAS preference?
New Member
Which AAS do you prefer?Thanks
Knowledgeable Member
Hormone research is complicated for everyone mainly because there are way too many compounds in the market to research and the amount of conflicting (mis)information that goes around seems to be infinite. In addition, everybody is different, hence react differently to every and each compound, which is also why you will get conflicting feedback on the same substance from many users. For instance, I am still on the wait for those Deca fans to show their disapproval for this entry, because -supposedly- Deca has done wonders for them.
However, facts are facts: Deca-Durabolin is both anabolically and androgenicly a weak compound, which is why you have to inject massive doses and conduct prolonged cycles in order to get results (as opposed to the illusion that you are getting big from Deca when you are getting because of massive water retention in reality). Besides, it brings about some drastic sides that are well known even at low doses that many compounds do not. If we were to make a contrast between Deca and some other internationally known good-old AAS on a mg per mg basis, Deca would fail dramatically. I will gladly make such a contrast in the case of flame brought upon me by any Deca advocates.
As I have also mentioned in my previous entry above, I have not yet seen another AAS around which such strong myths revolve. One can easily run into a ambiguous post in any steroid forum about how a Deca cycle helped him recover from a tendonitis and/or any other joint related disease. Of course, questions remain and myths persist.
I have run several long cycles (12+ weeks) in the past (which I stopped doing a while ago) and my AAS preferences for long cycles have been either using Test alone or stacking with Primobolan Depot. I live in Turkey so I have learned to adjust my preferences according to circumstances. One does not need prescription for Sustanon 250 and/or Primobolan Depot 100mg, these legit compounds are available over the counter at most pharmacies at ridiculously cheap prices (Primo costs me 1/4 of its black market price in the States, Sust is pretty cheap also). Thus, I have both run Sustanon 250 only cycles and Sustanon + Primobolan cycles in the past. Stacking Primobolan and Sustanon in prolonged cycles have worked great for me, but I knew my stuff before I got into such cycles. For instance, I knew that my butt was going to turn into a human dartboard at the dosing of 700mg of Primo a week along with 3 Sustanons e/w. Nonetheless, I also have access to several dealers in the Turkish black market in order to get other compounds such as Test Prop, Winstrol and Anavar to meet the demands of shorter cycles.
I don't use Deca though, and I never will after reading the human research article that I posted today. What is the point of injecting yourself with a compound that now you know is 11 times more damaging to blood vessels than regular Test anyways...
Junior Member
"In addition, I also think there is yet another myth revolving around Deca that it keeps the joints young by lubricating them. You will hear this even from experienced AAS users, although I have not yet come across with a single human study that seems to support this. I can see how joints would suffer less from heavy training on a Deca course, since Deca leads to massive edema for known reasons, meaning that it is pretty much the opposite of Winstrol to joints in that regard. Nevertheless, this does not mean that Deca is a joint healing drug or anything along those lines. Oxymoron in deca's joint relief argument is that, any long estered Test will do the same for joints as far as lubrication caused by edema is concerned, especially combined with a high carb diet while cycling. So, what is the deal with Deca, really?"
My understanding of deca was not that it helped the joint as such (bone, cartelidge) but increased tendon and ligament strength. May well be a myth as you suggest but I have had great success in treating tendonitis with it. After what I have learned today though it hardly seems worth it.
Sorry Turkish Juicer, it seems I've edited your quote poorly.
Senior Member
lol right as i was going to start deca on monday..
Junior Member
though not related to the heart here is a article about Nandralone and prolonging life in aid victims,cant be that bad if all is ok after 10 years
Dr. Nathan Sherlock knows first hand about the importance of nandrolone for his health and that of his partner:
My partner has had a significant problem with wasting due to AIDS and the only way he has been able to stop the dangerous weight loss is to use anabolic steroids. He is also hepatitis B positive. His doctor first prescribed Oxandrin in 1998. Within a couple of weeks he had chemical induced hepatitis with the symptoms of nausea, vomiting, loss of appetite and jaundice. His liver enzymes were all elevated. He stopped Oxandrin and the symptoms promptly resolved. His doctor then prescribed nandrolone 200mg/week and he regained weight back to his norm with no side effects. When he stops taking it the wasting returns so he has been on nandrolone for close to 9 years now...I have been taking nandrolone for wasting due to AIDS for over 10 years. Every time I have stopped taking nandrolone I experience rapid weight loss that can only be reversed by resuming the use of nandrolone.
Al Benson, an HIV treatment advocate in Los Angeles concurs. "Nandrolone is truly 'the Lazarus drug'... it has brought me back from the brink, restored my health and made all the difference in the quality of my life."
Senior Member
lets just hope he doesnt die of a heart attack based on the studies posted above.
Member
bump
Knowledgeable Member
Again, no AAS is capable of increasing tendon and ligament strength, if not the opposite. When BBs cycle Deca, they usually inject a weekly dose of 400mg+ (some go up to 1000mg+, of course) which is more than enough for any progestin to cause excessive water retention all around the body, including joints. Thus, those with joint problems seem to get a break when they cycle Deca, simply due to the storing of water, end of story.
Also, here is a personal note: I have tendon issues in both elbows and every time I cut back on carbs and start depleting the excessive water in my body, the joint pain comes back along with the irritating sound, in spite of reduced weights at the gym. Winter comes back and I start carbing up and increasing the weights at the gym all over again, and guess what? All the joint pain and the irritating noises from my elbows are gone. Now add 600-800mg of Deca E/W to a high carb diet, and you got yourself a miraculously tendon and joint healing AAS!
Here is an advice to Deca users: Do not ever tell an Orthopedician that in your personal experience Deca has healed your joints and tendons, otherwise you will be laughed at.
Knowledgeable Member
choker28: Remove Nandrolone from the text you entered above and replace it with Primobolan Depot, for instance. Dr. Nathan Sherlock's partner still would have had all the healing properties such as halting of wasting and improved immunity system overall. Not to mention, these drugs were not originally intended for BBs to abuse at any rate, so there is nothing new or sensational in this story.
I am also positive Dr. Nathan Sherlock's partners HTPA must have suffered although to a limited extent (due to very low dosing) throughout those 9 years, but who cares about HTPA suppression when compared to a life threatening killer virus strain after all, right?
Lastly, there is a 2011 animal study suggesting that Nandrolone have clear genotoxic effects on cells of male mice (higher the dose, more genotoxic damage), so Deca remains questionable for me from many angles after all...
Associate Member
hold on hold on, ur saying all this about deca and u said ull never run deca, which means u have never ran it? how can u post this if u have no experience on this substance?i think u read one study that doesnt even say its bad for you. it says its damaging, it does not say it kills them. one beer will probably do more damage then any deca will as alcohol kills, not just damages. deca is used very commonly as its safe to use, even in the medical field. probably the safest to use other then testosterone. but yet we put very harsh substances like dbol anadrol winstrol eq and the worst of tren into are bodies. imagine what those will do? they cause noticeable health risks very quickly from high blood pressure to toxicity of liver and kidneys which they are all proven to do and even low doses, including eq. deca and testosterone u will not notice soring blood pressure or damage to liver/kidneys unless on MEGA doses.
we should use the proper name nandralone as u compare it mg for mg. out of all long esters its the STRONGEST compound mg for mg other then tren E, u can see results off of 200mg a week of nandralone deconate,could u results out of 200 of test E? 200 primo? 200 eq? 200 mast E? the answer is no u can not, not even close. it is VERY strong mg for mg. a normal dose of deca ull grow more and gain more size then any other long ester steroid even tren.(for size). side effect wise deca is very safe compound if u use it properly, aka add some test. your most likely not gonna have any side effects other then some acne which is usually the test(depending how much u run of course) and it comes with a bunch of perks like joint relief and tendon and legiment recovery, which is very noticeable if u have ran good deca. the only side effect some ppl dont want is moon face, which doesnt happen for everyone, im on 1200mg of deca now and my face doesnt look any different. and if they dont want the moon face they can always go for the short ester of npp. which mg for mg still the strongest compound except for tren A. ppl still get joint relief, tendon and ligiment recovery without the moonface, just got to pin everyday.
how is joint relief or recovery from injurys such as tendonitus a myth? its proven to work. and there is alot of evidence out there of that. and not just the millions of ppl that have used deca to succesfully heal there sore joints, if not for good, at least while there on deca.
Last edited by markdbg; 03-11-2012 at 01:57 AM.
Knowledgeable Member
I wish you have read my entries properly before flaming. Here is a copy/paste of my most initial feedback about my first hand Deca experience on this thread:
''DGHGM: I have never been a fan of Deca , a weak compound to begin with that requires high doses and prolonged cycles which also comes with too many sides for me. I just can't stand the moonface throughout the cycle (aka deca -face).''
I made it clear that I have used Deca and decided that it was not for me.
And when Dcentchevy asked me about my preference of AAS above, I have replied the question accordingly, informing him about the long estered AAS cycles I have run before that worked for me. So what's the deal markdbg?
Knowledgeable Member
Let's look into this arbitrary claim of yours, to see if it makes sense:
1. Does beer increase the concentration of calcium in the cell, which is known to activates suicide enzymes? No.
2. Does beer make the heart muscle grow? No.
3. Does beer kill heart cells and produce blood clots? No.
4. Does beer harden endothelial cells lining the blood vessels and turn blood into a sludgy composition? No.
... and so forth.
In the last result, we all know that BBs use much higher dosages than 200mg weekly when Deca is the case. My dosing was 400mg E/W when I cycled Deca for the first time, and I have talked to competing BBs who go as high as 1600mg E/W. So, let's not kid ourselves here. You and I know that no BB uses only 200mg E/W for anabolic purposes, it would be a joke.
Knowledgeable Member
As I have already mentioned in my previous entries in this thread, the myth part of Deca's joint healing stories is the claim that Deca does this in a direct manner. No, it does not. And no AAS can. This is where the misconception comes from. There is a huge difference between saying that Deca gives joint relief and that Deca actually heals joints and tendons. You just have to know how to read between the lines when you are pushing rhetoric.
Again, and hopefully for the last time, Deca is a progesterone and progesterone is known to have anti-inflammatory action, which partially provides a plausible explanation as to how Deca may provide with joint relief. I am sure there are other supporting explanations to it, but I doubt there is any evidence that it directly works on the joints and tendons as a healing agent as in the case of glucosomine for instance.
Junior Member
i just posted as it came,thought it was a interesting article especially as Aids/Hiv patiences have a week immune system and have general poor health including a bigger chance of endocarditis so you think the use of Deca on such a weak patience would be detrimental to there health
Junior Member
i just posted as it came,thought it was a interesting article especially as Aids/Hiv patiences have a week immune system and have general poor health including a bigger chance of endocarditis so you think the use of Deca on such a weak patience would be detrimental to there health
Knowledgeable Member
No, I do not think that 200mg weekly Deca injections can be detrimental to their health. It is a really low dose for any adult male and if it does everything that Dr. Nathan Sherlock claims it does (halted muscle waste, significantly improved immunity and etc.) then how could I or anyone else possibly be a critique of such conduct? It is keeping him alive and this is just so obvious...
I would like to remind you, however, that this is a steroid forum where many BBs inject themselves with extremely high doses of such compounds that were not intended for BB purposes in the first place. Therefore, what is the point of bringing in an example of an AIDS patient who has been prescribed low dosage of AAS for medical purposes? Everyone who is reading this thread right now obviously is aware that no BB will take 200mg of weekly Deca injections seriously. I cycled Deca at 400mg E/W when I first cycled it, and my gains were mostly from water mainly because I did not use an AI.
If a compound is genotoxic at low doses, it may not kill you or even present a serious risk of health, but what about those who cycle the same compound at the dosage of 1000-2000mg for 12-16 weeks at a time? This is where exactly the loophole comes in, you just don't know until something happens. So it is a game of risk after all...
Last edited by Turkish Juicer; 03-11-2012 at 09:31 AM.
Junior Member
Of course as you say this is a BB Forum and you properly right some people take massive doses of AAS, Im not a BB but have had some good results with Deca at a really low dose .i did two 12 week courses last year @ 1ml/100mg every week gained some good solid muscle and sorted my elbows out which have troubled me for years
Knowledgeable Member
I have never suggested that you will not gain muscle with Deca, now such claim would be pretty retarded.
My first cycle ever was 200mg of Primobolan Depot E/W for 8 weeks and I too gained some retainable lean muscle, along with some vasodilation. There is yet nothing sensational about it, since we are talking about AAS use here.
I am sure Deca sorted your elbows out, but that does not mean it healed them. Again, there would be a vast difference between those two statements, which is what I have been trying to explain all along...
Junior Member
im note disputing anything you have quoted,im not qualified to do that, just telling you my own personal experiences nothing more
Knowledgeable Member
I did not at all assume you were disputing anything, I wanted to share my first low-dose cycle experience as well, and further explain myself concerning Deca use and joint health.
It is all dandy
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