Bodybuilding 80% diet 20% training?

[calstate23]

Okay, as most of us hear bodybuilding is 80% diet. Even most pros would say that. Certainly, I also know how important diet is as well but I honestly believe it's 50/50..

It kind of annoys me when people say that. My only reasoning is this...Without one of the other you have nothing. With a great diet and no lifting you have nothing. With a great routine and no diet you also don't have much. That is why I believe it is 50/50....

And if they're trying to say the amount of time out of the day to me it still doesn't add up..I can easily make and eat all of my 6 meals and only take an hour out of my day.

Just would like to hear others take on the 80/20 because I really don't like saying that...

But to me, if I had to give a true number I would say bodybuilding is 100% knowledge. Which is why I love the sport so much. ANYONE without a physical disability can push and pull some weights. It takes ABSOLUTELY no athleticism what so ever to push some weight off your chest. The sport comes down to knowledge, dedication and hardwork and that is it...Anyone with a little genetics on their side and the knowledge that a top pro has could EASILY stand on a pro stage as long as they work hard and have dedication.

[AXx]

But to me, if I had to give a true number I would say bodybuilding is 100% knowledge. Which is why I love the sport so much. ANYONE without a physical disability can push and pull some weights. It takes ABSOLUTELY no athleticism what so ever to push some weight off your chest. The sport comes down to knowledge, dedication and hardwork and that is it...Anyone with a little genetics on their side and the knowledge that a top pro has could EASILY stand on a pro stage as long as they work hard and have dedication.

I agree with this to an extent!! I have a guy that works out with us that is a **** hair away from being a moron when it comes to lifting. I honestly believe he is unteachable.

[calstate23]

I agree with this to an extent!! I have a guy that works out with us that is a **** hair away from being a moron when it comes to lifting. I honestly believe he is unteachable.

Ha ha...Include the morons into the "Physically Disabled Section"...

[Far from massive]

Remeber without a spot on diet not only will you never have the bodyfat you need to score well but your musculature will suffer without a great diet.

I am no expert by any means, however I would think that what people mean by this statement is that you can get OK results with a workout routine that is flawed, however if you eat poorly your done on stage. That is judges are by far more critical on fat than the size or balance of muscle groups....This is based on my long and extensive experience as a bodybuilding judge ( I have judged one small show LOL )

However I do agree 100% that its not as big a spread as 80/20 however I do feel that diet and the resultant bodyfat and musculature is more important than the specific workout routine.


Also I would add that sleep should also get a huge wieght, in my opinion the order of importance to developing a championship physique is Sleep/Diet/Workouts.

[AXx]

Ha ha...Include the morons into the "Physically Disabled Section"...

Note to self, self? This is the category the guy you speak of is in, lol.

[Gaspari1255]

That 80/20 thing is such bullshit because everyone is different. I bet we all know some guys that are 100/0 , by that I mean 100% genetics and ZERO diet or BBing knowledge. We all have friends that are 225 lbs at 6% bf who eat complete shit, who don't know their ass from their elbow when it comes to training, yet they still look awesome. Some people just "have it". I guess that's the best way I can put it.

I have a friend, who I train with, who is also good friends with Dukk and Abott, who benches about 560lbs raw at 24 years old. However, this kid doesn't know a god damn thing about training. The only free weight exercise he does is flat BB, everything else is cable or hammer strength machines. This guy can also do 225x60 full reps on the flat bench. I don't even think his chest it 50" though. Muscle development and strength are MOSTLY genetics.......

[AXx]

That 80/20 thing is such bullshit because everyone is different. I bet we all know some guys that are 100/0 , by that I mean 100% genetics and ZERO diet or BBing knowledge. We all have friends that are 225 lbs at 6% bf who eat complete shit, who don't know their ass from their elbow when it comes to training, yet they still look awesome. Some people just "have it". I guess that's the best way I can put it.

I tend to not like those people. Yes we all know those guys. It's a shame I'm not one of them. I look at a pizza and gain 10lbs. My bro in law is this exception to the rule.

Cal I can see your point in the argument.

[Bevsta123]

100% Nutrition, 100% Training :P

[DeadlyD]

I do believe that to an average person diet is first then training, no matter what your goals! Its important to have a healthy body and you can't get that without a healthy diet.

[DeadlyD]

100% Nutrition, 100% Training :P

Nice! .....Liked.

[calstate23]

Remeber without a spot on diet not only will you never have the bodyfat you need to score well but your musculature will suffer without a great diet.

I am no expert by any means, however I would think that what people mean by this statement is that you can get OK results with a workout routine that is flawed, however if you eat poorly your done on stage. That is judges are by far more critical on fat than the size or balance of muscle groups....This is based on my long and extensive experience as a bodybuilding judge ( I have judged one small show LOL )

However I do agree 100% that its not as big a spread as 80/20 however I do feel that diet and the resultant bodyfat and musculature is more important than the specific workout routine.


Also I would add that sleep should also get a huge wieght, in my opinion the order of importance to developing a championship physique is Sleep/Diet/Workouts.

True, but honestly if I really had to choose I would even put lifting over diet...The reason being if you had a great diet and NEVER lifted there would be no muscle size/definition at all...Let's put it this way, EVERYONE eats food regardless if they lift or not...

And again, in reality NO ONE could stand on a stage at all if they never lifted...Where as someone who trained their ass off but had a bad diet could be on stage. They might not be as defined but at least they could stand on the stage and compete..Get my drift?

But anyways, yes I believe it could be broken down into a large some of categories of percentages...I'm just going off the lifting and diet portion which 80/20 is bull to me...

[Gaspari1255]

True, but honestly if I really had to choose I would even put lifting over diet...The reason being if you had a great diet and NEVER lifted there would be no muscle size/definition at all...Let's put it this way, EVERYONE eats food regardless if they lift or not...

And again, in reality NO ONE could stand on a stage at all if they never lifted...Where as someone who trained their ass off but had a bad diet could be on stage. They might not be as defined but at least they could stand on the stage and compete..Get my drift?

But anyways, yes I believe it could be broken down into a large some of categories of percentages...I'm just going off the lifting and diet portion which 80/20 is bull to me...

African Americans.

[johnnylucifer]

Genetics is also a factor. The overall ratio is going to change based on a persons current state, stage of life(i.e.age), experience, injuries, personal perception, workout style and consistency.


Here's the thing...if there is such a thing as a perfect formula, stop trying to find it. Why? Cause if you find it, you will not even know it because it will not work for you.

Here is the gist. Dieting is harder than exercising. That's why you hear numbers like 80/20. 80% of your overall energy (i.e. time, thoughts, focus) is spent on diet...now that makes sense to me. Exercise is easy. You show up, you do it.

With diet though, damn. Interferes with your professional life and personal life. Totally rips any shred of relaxation or fun. You can't drink, can't have that popcorn, cheese? Ha! Nothing from a restaurant. If it's not convenient, then you probably shouldn't eat it. Every f-ing moment of every f-ing day you have to think about it. Generally, it's better to skip a workout than to cheat for a meal. Both physically, and psychologically, sticking to a diet plan over time, is way harder than sticking to a workout plan.

Once again, just my opinion based on my own experiences.

[calstate23]

I do believe that to an average person diet is first then training, no matter what your goals! Its important to have a healthy body and you can't get that without a healthy diet.

But again, I look at it like this...Someone who trains their ass of CORRECTLY and has bad diet could at least stand on a stage and compete..Whereas, someone who NEVER lifted but had a great diet could literally NEVER stand on a stage...

So technically wouldn't that put training over diet??

[calstate23]

African Americans.

True, someone with KILLER genetics. But that is more rare then the AVERAGE JOE..If you take the "AVERAGE" person I believe this is more true

[DeadlyD]

But again, I look at it like this...Someone who trains their ass of CORRECTLY and has bad diet could at least stand on a stage and compete..Whereas, someone who NEVER lifted but had a great diet could literally NEVER stand on a stage...

So technically wouldn't that put training over diet??

I'm just saying, for the average Joe, diet should be way more important for many reasons not just bodybuilding.

[--->>405<<---]

But again, I look at it like this...Someone who trains their ass of CORRECTLY and has bad diet could at least stand on a stage and compete..Whereas, someone who NEVER lifted but had a great diet could literally NEVER stand on a stage...

So technically wouldn't that put training over diet??

yeh cal but the comparison ur using i think is not completely accurate. ur basing it on lifting and not lifting, and dieting correctly or just eating without dietary knowledge. in order for it to be even on both sides it would have to be lifting correctly/not eating and eating correctly/not lifting. and i think we both know how that would turn out.

from my understanding of ur OP the question was what percentage of each do we think is actually close to accurate? IMO dieting trumps lifting by far. we are to assume that everyone eats and everyone lifts. where the importance comes in is to what degree of accuracy is each of these 2 disciplines performed?

im a very good example of this scenario ironically. bear in mind i also found out i was low test (and this is another thing we have to take into consideration) around the same time i started my cut back in october. however while i know the test im on definitely had a huge impact my levels are not and have never been super physiologic. i was just brought back to the optimum range which i believe really just put me back onto the playing field fairly close to even with everyone else.

having gotten that out of the way id like to say when i started my cut i was 213lbs 22%bf. i lifted my butt off and did extensive cardio. IMO i worked out harder than most people i saw in the gym that looked better than i did which pissed me off to no end!

THEN i found this forum and got diet on track. i went from 213lbs 22%bf to 193lbs 7.8%bf and i lifted with less intensity (over all) and did less cardio! what accomplished this for me was not lifting but DIET. DIET.DIET.DIET.

keep this in mind too: 213lbs 22% bf = 166.14lbs LBM
193lbs 7.8%bf = 177.95lbs LBM

IMO this speaks for itself! my answer: DIET 80%

[mockery]

pro's have to say diet and teh reason being when you are using 7 grams of test a week and 3 grams of tren and 10 ui GH a day and you get big as ****, you cant say it was the drugs "no it was my diet, oatmeal pasta ..."

if your diet is in check cardio isnt nessary, if your diet is in check you will gain lbm and lose fat down to YOUR natural limit happy place in terms of bf% beyond that, cutting/ cardio/ drugs may be nessary.

[mockery]

Im on a huge frank zane kick right now, and as he said his biggest mistake was trying to bulk. keep yoru calories normal. train hard, eat clean. and dont go over 5% in terms of weight gain, if you do cardio and diet to get things back into working order. the bulk and cut might be easier for people to understand but long term i dont think its the way to go.

[ghettoboyd]

yeh cal but the comparison ur using i think is not completely accurate. ur basing it on lifting and not lifting, and dieting correctly or just eating without dietary knowledge. in order for it to be even on both sides it would have to be lifting correctly/not eating and eating correctly/not lifting. and i think we both know how that would turn out.

from my understanding of ur OP the question was what percentage of each do we think is actually close to accurate? IMO dieting trumps lifting by far. we are to assume that everyone eats and everyone lifts. where the importance comes in is to what degree of accuracy is each of these 2 disciplines performed?

im a very good example of this scenario ironically. bear in mind i also found out i was low test (and this is another thing we have to take into consideration) around the same time i started my cut back in october. however while i know the test im on definitely had a huge impact my levels are not and have never been super physiologic. i was just brought back to the optimum range which i believe really just put me back onto the playing field fairly close to even with everyone else.

having gotten that out of the way id like to say when i started my cut i was 213lbs 22%bf. i lifted my butt off and did extensive cardio. IMO i worked out harder than most people i saw in the gym that looked better than i did which pissed me off to no end!

THEN i found this forum and got diet on track. i went from 213lbs 22%bf to 193lbs 7.8%bf and i lifted with less intensity (over all) and did less cardio! what accomplished this for me was not lifting but DIET. DIET.DIET.DIET.

keep this in mind too: 213lbs 22% bf = 166.14lbs LBM
193lbs 7.8%bf = 177.95lbs LBM

IMO this speaks for itself! my answer: DIET 80%

ive read everones arguments/examples and i agree with you bro, diet all the way...

[RaginCajun]

i powerlifted in college and ate like shit. i wish i would have had a sound diet in college, who knows how much muscle i could have packed on.

[gbrice75]

I respectfully disagree with the 80/20 argument. I don't care to get into specific numbers, because I agree with what was stated above - it's different for everybody, genetics play a role, etc. I will say that I see people in the gym who appear to know what they're doing with regards to training - good choice of lifts, perfect form, good muscular development/size, etc. but they simply don't 'have it'. It's clear when somebody's diet is lacking. These people train their asses off but look more or less the same. IMO, it's relatively easy to lift and make gains. Lift things up, put them down (ok, i'm being sarcastic here, but you get my point). You can always tell when a dude gets serious and takes it to the next level, which IMO, is dialing in the diet. This is what separates the 'average' gym goer from the 'serious' ones. And with that, I believe diet has the edge over training.

One statement you made though, that I agree with whole-heartedly - it is 100% KNOWLEDGE!

[Live for the PUMP]

I do believe that to an average person diet is first then training, no matter what your goals! Its important to have a healthy body and you can't get that without a healthy diet.

NO WAY! Who in their right mind is going to get serious about diet before training?!! Any bodybuilder out there is going to be an advocate of their passion for training and lifting and that is what gets them to become serious. Diet comes after training gets serious.

[Live for the PUMP]

Diet is huge. No doubt! However without that passion and love for lifting forget about it. I sometimes use that phrase, "80% is done in the kitchen". But I know it's just a big exaggeration. Training is number 1! Without a good training reg again...forget about it. Something an old pro once told me and I will always stand by it, "No matter what, TRAIN HARD".

[JohnnyVegas]

I imagine the 80/20 is in no way accurate for recreational bodybuilding. But, I think it is close to accurate when I read what those guys go through during contest prep. The hard training is a given...everyone on stage it training hard...but it is the diet that makes all the difference for competition. Right?

[calstate23]

yeh cal but the comparison ur using i think is not completely accurate. ur basing it on lifting and not lifting, and dieting correctly or just eating without dietary knowledge. in order for it to be even on both sides it would have to be lifting correctly/not eating and eating correctly/not lifting. and i think we both know how that would turn out.

from my understanding of ur OP the question was what percentage of each do we think is actually close to accurate? IMO dieting trumps lifting by far. we are to assume that everyone eats and everyone lifts. where the importance comes in is to what degree of accuracy is each of these 2 disciplines performed?

im a very good example of this scenario ironically. bear in mind i also found out i was low test (and this is another thing we have to take into consideration) around the same time i started my cut back in october. however while i know the test im on definitely had a huge impact my levels are not and have never been super physiologic. i was just brought back to the optimum range which i believe really just put me back onto the playing field fairly close to even with everyone else.

having gotten that out of the way id like to say when i started my cut i was 213lbs 22%bf. i lifted my butt off and did extensive cardio. IMO i worked out harder than most people i saw in the gym that looked better than i did which pissed me off to no end!

THEN i found this forum and got diet on track. i went from 213lbs 22%bf to 193lbs 7.8%bf and i lifted with less intensity (over all) and did less cardio! what accomplished this for me was not lifting but DIET. DIET.DIET.DIET.

keep this in mind too: 213lbs 22% bf = 166.14lbs LBM
193lbs 7.8%bf = 177.95lbs LBM

IMO this speaks for itself! my answer: DIET 80%

I still believe it's 50/50...Because you literally can't have one without the other. Although I still give it to lifting because like I posted earlier I said EVERYONE EATS. So meaning, the average person who doesn't know how to diet or take the time to do a speific diet would be equal to 0% diet...

Take an average person who "just eats" what they will but trains hard and correctly. Cardio is a part of training as well...That person would at least have some size, muscle strength and definition.

Whereas a person who only had a good diet would have NO MUSCLE definition or size...Obviously training can make your physique better then just pure diet alone...Based on the "average joe"..And again, cardio is a part of training so technically if someone did a lot of cardio it could adjust for extra calories..

But no doubt diet is the major % when going into a competition without a doubt. As they have already build the muscle and size they need. The rest is left up to controlling hormones, diet, and mainly keeping water in check

Further more, you have guys in prison who get the same meals..Yet you have some pretty big build guys in there. That's obviously from training. Just imagine, who's in better shape the guy in prison who doesn't do sh*it for his diet and trains like a race horse or some dude who counts his macros, bums food off other guys to get his diet in check but never trains..He'd be a little girly man with ABSOLUTLEY NO MUSCLE DEFINITION...Unless he is a rare rare case of killer genetics. But that is off the topic because that is not the average joe.

I mean you even have people who live in the jungle and eat whatever they can get their hands on yet a lot have good physiques due to lots of walking and physical activiteis..

[--->>405<<---]

^^ well cal i stand behind what i said and have the results to prove it. ur title is called "bodybuilding 80% diet 20% training?"

u cant have bodybuilding if u dont have weightlifting. IMO ur prison analogy is flawed because u cannot determine whether someone looks better because of their workout or genetics. my money is on genetics considering they all lift together and share technique and workouts to help one another. (the ones who are friends that is..)

i agree u need both. but a guy with a good diet that goes to the gym and lifts 4days per week is gonna look better than a guy with a crappy diet who lifts "properly". and IMO no amt of cardio (within reason) is gonna outweigh a proper diet.

my dietary knowledge far exceeds my lifting technique and knowledge (i need to fix that ) and i look better than most guys i see in the gym. why do u think that is??

[--->>405<<---]

another interesting observation that backs up my theory:

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Bodybuilding 80% diet 20%...
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the traffic between these 2 forums IMO shows which one the members/visitors here think deserves more attention

[jasc]

What is more critical to reaching a destination? A vehicle or it's fuel? You can have a nice car n without fuel it will not run. You can push it, but really how much progress will you make? On the other hand you can have fuel and nothing to put it in. When you put the fuel in the car, now you can make progress.. Same applies here.

[--->>405<<---]

What is more critical to reaching a destination? A vehicle or it's fuel? You can have a nice car n without fuel it will not run. You can push it, but really how much progress will you make? On the other hand you can have fuel and nothing to put it in. When you put the fuel in the car, now you can make progress.. Same applies here.

yeh but i dont think thats an accurate comparison. maybe comparing reg unleaded to premium unleaded. LOL..

consider this. an F1 car isnt gonna pull up to ur local amoco station along side a volkswagon

[digsy1983]

this should be posted in the workout section to see what the view is over there.

i agree with bevsta, 100% Nutrition, 100% Training.

no point doing something half assed! all the way or no way!!

[Far from massive]

True, but honestly if I really had to choose I would even put lifting over diet...The reason being if you had a great diet and NEVER lifted there would be no muscle size/definition at all...Let's put it this way, EVERYONE eats food regardless if they lift or not...

And again, in reality NO ONE could stand on a stage at all if they never lifted...Where as someone who trained their ass off but had a bad diet could be on stage. They might not be as defined but at least they could stand on the stage and compete..Get my drift?

But anyways, yes I believe it could be broken down into a large some of categories of percentages...I'm just going off the lifting and diet portion which 80/20 is bull to me...

I still stand by my post but gotta say, you certainly do make a valid point and present your case well. If I ever get arrested for AAS I want you on my legal team :-)

Best wishes.
FFM

[liftology]

I agree with what has been said above. It really depends on the person like most things in bodybuilding. You can't really generalize in this sport because people's bodies work so differently.

[auslifta]

Agree with 100% diet, 100% training, 100% knowledge.

[abstetic]

Every thing comes down to genetics.. How your body looks and how you grow ect...

[auslifta]

Every thing comes down to genetics.. How your body looks and how you grow ect...

Good genetics only make it easier. You can create an amazing body with bad genetics and shitload of determination

[gbrice75]

agree with 100% diet, 100% training, 100% knowledge.

^^ this

[calstate23]

Agree with 100% diet, 100% training, 100% knowledge.

I like this one too

[calstate23]

Every thing comes down to genetics.. How your body looks and how you grow ect...

You can only get the best out of your genetics by pushing them to their limits which a lot of people don't even do. Like Auslifta said even with bad genetics you can still have one of the best physqiues...They just might have to work harder then others to get it.

Also, keep in mind there are hormones that can push you past your genetic limitation such as HGH...