Damaged metabolism due to starvation -- and AAS

[BBJT200]

Over the last year or so, i've battled a pretty serious eating disorder. i've been in the clear for a few months, and have noticed my metabolism is pretty insanely ****ed up. I'm trying a method of slowly ramping cals back up (700-800 is maintenance @ sedentary for me right now. No, i'm not kidding)

The recovery process for something like this is as follows: Stop exercise, and slowly increase calories every week. The amount you start at depends on your body size/gender, but I would be looking at starting around 1300/day for week one, 1400 week 2, 1500 week 3, 1600 week 4, 1700 week 5, 1800 week 6, 1900 week 7, and then maintain that until weight stabilizes and body temperature is normal. If you exercise during this period, you must increase your food intake to *MATCH* the caloric output, otherwise you're doing more harm than good in the recovery process. The idea is to slowly reverse the adaptation the body has made to the famine. (Increasing LBM will NOT help, because the adaptation mechanism the body uses essentially makes every process in your body more efficient. If my metabolism = half what it should be, then exercise is HALF as effective, for example)

My normal body temp. is 95.5-96.9, and it should be 97.7-99 depending on the time of day you take the measurement
I had the idea that perhaps a mild cycle would speed the process up of repairing metabolic damage. As my understanding is that AAS increases your resting metabolism, perhaps this increase could permanently raise it back to a normal level, as well as fight fat gain during the recovery process. Any thoughts?

**edit
Here's some background info.
I've been lifting hard for a few years. This last year, I learned how to eat and saw huge muscle growth, but can not shed fat for the life of me due to the ****ed metabolism. I can lose weight if I basically stop eating and exercise all day every day, but that's not practical or sustainable. As soon as I stop, the weight comes back on. An example that i've done is a sustained 1500cal diet of around 50% protein, making sure I get my EFA's, and most of my carbs are fiberous veggies and or post workout shake. I was doing an hour or two of fasted cardio in the am, and then either lifting for an hour, followed by 30-60 mins low intensity cardio (hill walking on a treadmill @ 3mph, keeping h.r. low to avoid cortisol problems), or just doing another two hours of cardio if i'm on a non-lift day.

I've been able to effectively bulk on 1800 cals if all I do is lift and no cardio (gaining fast enough for a trainer to ask me what the hell i'm taking)
I'm confused, horrified, and scared. I don't know what to do at this point. I can't clean my diet up anymore, I can't eat any less or exercise more...I don't want to give up, but I don't know if I can keep this up if it's flat out not going to work.

I understand the process I have to take to fix things, but after spending this long of a time struggling, I don't know if I can mentally handle gaining 20+lbs of fat in the recovery process.

[ledz]

Educate before you medicate. Get labs done first.

[BBJT200]

*edit
No point in responding to this^

[JohnnyVegas]

I don't have much to add in the way of advice, but I have shared your experience.

I had an eating disorder and my body seems to function on less calories than anyone would expect.

I agree with above that blood work would be helpful.

[BBJT200]

I've had labs done several times over the last few months...everything is good. Was even complimented on my lipid profile

[JohnnyVegas]

Didn't know you have had labs done. I thought maybe you had a thyroid issue or something that would be easily spotted.

[Times Roman]

Over the last year or so, i've battled a pretty serious eating disorder. i've been in the clear for a few months, and have noticed my metabolism is pretty insanely ****ed up. I'm trying a method of slowly ramping cals back up (700-800 is maintenance @ sedentary)

I had the idea that perhaps a mild cycle would speed the process up of repairing metabolic damage. Any thoughts?

wait!
are you saying your base metabolic rate is 7 or 800 calories?

[BBJT200]

That's exactly what I'm saying. The only way i've found to actually maintain weight, is doing a total of 500-1000 cals cardio EVERY DAY, lifting 6 days out of the week, and eating a sub 2000 calorie diet.

Any less activity, any more food, and I blow up like a fatty.
It's what happens to anorexics and bullimics. I suffered extreme bullimia from sept 2011-june 2012. I was at like 20 purges a day from september to march, and slowly got down to a few a week by June. I was able to stop completely over the summer.

I recognized that I had to let my body heal, so i put the mirror away, and just ate healthy and followed my apetite. Mind you, I paid attention to how much I ate calorie wise, but i ate when I was truly hungry. I ended up at probably 2500 cals/day. I gained in the ballpark of 20 lbs in a month. I was still exercising during this timeframe. I know now that I should have stopped exercising all together and started at around 1000 cals/day and work my way up slowly, increasing by like 100 every four or five days. I'm just extremely frustrated at this point, and am pretty close to throwing in the towel on everything in life. I don't have access to medical care of any quality, just the basic clinic our university has (the nurses basically know how to treat STD's and give out antidepressants...)

So yes, that is what I'm saying.

[BBJT200]

My job is body image, and i'm just trying to salvage what I can. Supposedly, I could just start eating a "normal" diet and stop exercising, get extremely obese, and then slowly work it off over the next year, and I **SHOULD** according to the theory, be back at a regular level of metabolism.

The thing here is, I don't think I'd survive that long. I'm pretty much on the edge of sanity as it is; I don't have another three months of this in me. I have to find a solution, or ...well... I'm going to die at an early age from heart failure and obesity.

[BBJT200]

And I recognize that I am young for a cycle. I honestly would rather run the risk of a lifetime of ED pills and TRT than die an obese cow.
My insulin sensitivity is ****ed for life due to the bullimia, and there's no coming back from that.
Insulin resistance leads to leptin resistance, and leptin controls satiety and is basically the director of traffic when it comes to fat storage / using it up.
If I can speed my metabolism back up to a 'normal' level, I could live on a low carb or keto diet, but unless I can find a way to up my metabolism, i'm done.

Due to the metabolism increasing aspects of AAS, does anyone think that it might help repair some damage?

[BBJT200]

Lots of views...anybody have anything in mind? I'm not stuck on the idea of AAS - - if I can avoid it, i'd like to. It's kind of my last resort.

[austinite]

What's your last thyroid result?

Also, hope this doesn't offend, but when was the last time you checked for STD's? I know you said you don't have access to healthcare, but it sounded like you aren't excited about the university clinic.

[BBJT200]

STD's are clean. I don't have recreational sex outside of work at the studio, and i'm checked monthly via labcorp.
I pretty much need viagra to get it up, as my sex drive is almost zero. (linked to the metabolic damage)

TSH levels are in the norm, however I've got all the symptoms of hypothyroidism. I'm going to try to get my free t3 levels checked by the student clinic and see where that goes as soon as it's open.
It's much more likely metabolic damage from the bullimia. That's the #1 problem that results from eating disorders....especially when they go on for extended periods of time.

I'm just wondering if running a bulk on AAS might combat the fat gain while adjusting my metabolism back to 'normal'

[austinite]

I'll be honest with you, I don't understand your condition and I don't want to give any poor advice here. I'll let others chime in, but I will be tuning in because I'm interested in some feedback as well.

[BBJT200]

Thank you austinite for being honest. I've had so many people throw out cookie cutter comments on my previous posts that it was nauseating.
I'm really just desperate for some help. Anyone...if you have anything to contribute, please do.

[johnnylucifer]

AS is complicated enough for a person who has control of their body composition. In all of your confusion and frustration, the last thing you need is another variable like AS in your life.

Adding AS to the long list of variables that you already have is not likely to help. Most likely it will make you worse off in the long run. You need to understand your body situation before adding another layer of complexity.

Lets back up a little bit and take a deep breath...

The most basic statement you can make about metabolism is this...increasing lean mass (i,e, adding muscle) increases metabolism, period.

So, what is you age, weight, height and BF% right now?

[johnnychun]

From June until now is not a lot of time to let your body heal from about a year of sickness. Revamping your metabolism is going to take time, and it sounds like you are already on the right track getting labs done to make sure nothing else is going on.

The body adjusts itself to survive, but it takes time. Yours survived on little nutrition with heavy exercise for a year. My understanding would be that you likely need approximately the same amount of time with a somewhat average maintenance calorie diet for your size and exercise level to reset the baseline. In the mean time, have you tried supplementing with caffeine and/or green tea?

[BBJT200]

AS is complicated enough for a person who has control of their body composition. In all of your confusion and frustration, the last thing you need is another variable like AS in your life.

Adding AS to the long list of variables that you already have is not likely to help. Most likely it will make you worse off in the long run. You need to understand your body situation before adding another layer of complexity.

Lets back up a little bit and take a deep breath...

The most basic statement you can make about metabolism is this...increasing lean mass (i,e, adding muscle) increases metabolism, period.

So, what is you age, weight, height and BF% right now?

Increasing lean mass at this point naturally isn't going to happen much more. I'm 5'8" 170lbs 13% bf. I've got 15" arms on a small frame. In terms of metabolic damage, the increased metabolism due to muscle mass is not going to help. With metabolic damage, your body "adapts" and becomes more efficient, because it was forced to run on little to nothing. My body "adapted" to hours of exercise on little to no food due to the eating disorder. You can look at my pictures; the really skinny ones are where I was the worst into the E.D. I did some serious damage. I remember a few months where I was living on like three slices of bread a day and 0 cal energy drinks, but felt great and had the energy to exercise.

I understand my body, I understand what I have to do to fix the problem, but my question was if anyone knows about AAS affecting metabolism. Theoretically, I could ramp up my cals slowly over time to fix my metabolism, and the AAS would *help* (not completely solve) the fat gain. It would be comparable to doing a "clean bulk" Age wise, I am not ready to run a cycle. Body development wise, definitely. I've had an incredibly easy time putting on muscle lately, but it's accompanied with fat. That's just a property of the slowed metabolism. Eating "maintenance" cals (according to BMR calculators) for me is like bulking at 4-5k cals for a normal person, and my body responds accordingly. I can get HUGE, but it's like a 50/50 split between muscle and fat. I don't want to get any bigger. For my tastes, and my job, my current amount of muscle mass is perfect-- I just have to repair the damage and lean back down. It's just a matter of time, but if I can save myself some time, I save myself financial trouble. My income is directly effected by my appearance, and I haven't been able to work in three months.

From June until now is not a lot of time to let your body heal from about a year of sickness. Revamping your metabolism is going to take time, and it sounds like you are already on the right track getting labs done to make sure nothing else is going on.

The body adjusts itself to survive, but it takes time. Yours survived on little nutrition with heavy exercise for a year. My understanding would be that you likely need approximately the same amount of time with a somewhat average maintenance calorie diet for your size and exercise level to reset the baseline. In the mean time, have you tried supplementing with caffeine and/or green tea?

According to clinical research, it only takes a period of 4-6 weeks to stoke the fire back up. I don't have links, but there have been a lot of studies done on bullimics and anorexics. The problem is, during that six weeks, you gain a ton of fat because you're in such a caloric surplus (not according to the calculated BMR, but because your body is used to running on half of what it should)

I've tried every supplement on the market, and continue to do green tea, caffeine, fish oil, vitamin E,C, Tribulus, horny goat weed, about 4g of arginine/day, and a few others.

[fabAB912]

for low thyroid use iodine(bladderwrack), guggulsterone and forskolin. For insulin sensitivity use Alpha Lipoic acid ,Silybin Phospholipid+ Vitamin E. Use for atleast 3 months.

[BBJT200]

for low thyroid use iodine(bladderwrack), guggulsterone and forskolin. For insulin sensitivity use Alpha Lipoic acid ,Silybin Phospholipid+ Vitamin E. Use for atleast 3 months.

Thanks for the supplement advice, but that's not what i'm asking. I already take an iodine/iodide supplement, my omegas, and vitamin E and have been for a while now.

My question is will AAS help speed up the metabolism recovery process after an eating disorder. If anyone has any links to info regarding studies done on AAS modifying BMR, that would be amazing.

[austinite]

Thanks for the supplement advice, but that's not what i'm asking. I already take an iodine/iodide supplement, my omegas, and vitamin E and have been for a while now.

My question is will AAS help speed up the metabolism recovery process after an eating disorder. If anyone has any links to info regarding studies done on AAS modifying BMR, that would be amazing.

have you spoken to Bonaparte? Try sending him a link to your thread.

[BBJT200]

Haven't spoken to him. I'll PM him--

Thanks!

[BBJT200]

Anybody?

[johnnylucifer]

You seem to already know this, but if you have hypothyroidism, then you have a thyroid problem. The article below speaks some to this. IN short, AAS will increase your metabolism (I think we all know this), but where the chips fall after you come off AAS is anybody's guess.

http://www.*************.net/article...-karl-hoffman/

[warmouth]

Did you get in contact with Bonaparte? I hate youre going through this phase buddy. I hope the guys here can help out. I know Austinites comment about Bonaparte was actually some great advice. I am curious to what he might have to say about this(only if you are comfortable sharing anything else). It isnt my business, so I understand if you feel you have said enough, but knowing what he has to say might be able to help others with the same problem you are having at the moment, but are afraid to admit it. I know it probably took a bit of courage to admit what was going on, so maybe that will help you some too. I am no expert in AAS, but if you need to chat or anything, PMme anytime. Although I am no expert in AAS, I can do my best to help you out on an emotional level and listen. Good luck!

[BBJT200]

You seem to already know this, but if you have hypothyroidism, then you have a thyroid problem. The article below speaks some to this. IN short, AAS will increase your metabolism (I think we all know this), but where the chips fall after you come off AAS is anybody's guess.

http://www.*************.net/article...-karl-hoffman/

Yes, I know. Hypothyroidism = thyroid is functioning below par, hyperthyroidism = thyroid is running too fast.
Your article link didn't work. Would you mind PMing it to me? Thanks!

Did you get in contact with Bonaparte? I hate youre going through this phase buddy. I hope the guys here can help out. I know Austinites comment about Bonaparte was actually some great advice. I am curious to what he might have to say about this(only if you are comfortable sharing anything else). It isnt my business, so I understand if you feel you have said enough, but knowing what he has to say might be able to help others with the same problem you are having at the moment, but are afraid to admit it. I know it probably took a bit of courage to admit what was going on, so maybe that will help you some too. I am no expert in AAS, but if you need to chat or anything, PMme anytime. Although I am no expert in AAS, I can do my best to help you out on an emotional level and listen. Good luck!

Unfortunately, I haven't heard back from Bonaparte yet. I messaged him earlier this morning. I'm pretty comfortable sharing whatever; after spending time in the military, I don't feel the "need" for privacy anymore. It's nice to have, but it's not a requirement.

Thank you for offering to be there to talk. I really appreciate it, bro! I'm just hoping I can get this all straightened out sooner than later.

[t-dogg]

Crazyness man. What has doctors come up with? Are you saying you cant eat more? Alittle confused.

[BBJT200]

Yeah, I'm saying I can't eat more than that or I start gaining, and rapidly.
Net caloric intake for the day has to be around 700-800 or I'm on the way up (and no, I don't underestimate my intake. I use a gram scale for every bit of food that goes in my mouth)

My doctor warned me that was an effect of bullimia. That was another thing that made it so difficult to stop

[Bonaparte]

Obviously AAS would help with nutrient partitioning (anabolism vs fat storage). But with your psychiatric issues, this could become a serious addiction in itself (especially since you'll never want to come off and gain fat in PCT).

How are your actual thyroid hormone levels? Because supplementing with T3 would certainly allow you to eat more normally without getting fat. And in low-moderate doses, it could potentially be anabolic rather than catabolic with a good diet (especially since you have that sluggish metabolism).

But I would first recommend that you try some peptides if you're bent on going the route of substances. They don't require PCT and lack the rebound effect of AAS. They also shouldn't be damaging to a younger guy (how old are you, anyway?). I haven't tried it, but plenty of guys are raving about TB500 for endurance and fat loss. Look into that first and tell me what you think. The GHRP + GRF stack is good too (boosts GH a shitload), if you can find legit ones for a decent price.

Probably not the perfect answer you were hoping for, but I could do a lot more with a full bloodwork panel, especially the hormones that may have been damaged and that you could replace.

[BBJT200]

Obviously AAS would help with nutrient partitioning (anabolism vs fat storage). But with your psychiatric issues, this could become a serious addiction in itself (especially since you'll never want to come off and gain fat in PCT).

How are your actual thyroid hormone levels? Because supplementing with T3 would certainly allow you to eat more normally without getting fat. And in low-moderate doses, it could potentially be anabolic rather than catabolic with a good diet (especially since you have that sluggish metabolism).

But I would first recommend that you try some peptides if you're bent on going the route of substances. They don't require PCT and lack the rebound effect of AAS. They also shouldn't be damaging to a younger guy (how old are you, anyway?). I haven't tried it, but plenty of guys are raving about TB500 for endurance and fat loss. Look into that first and tell me what you think. The GHRP + GRF stack is good too (boosts GH a shitload), if you can find legit ones for a decent price.

Probably not the perfect answer you were hoping for, but I could do a lot more with a full bloodwork panel, especially the hormones that may have been damaged and that you could replace.

I agree with you there, it could definitely become a potential addiction. That is a very good point to consider.
I'm still waiting on records from my clinic, should have them in my hands tomorrow or the next day. I'm fairly sure my thyroid levels were checked in them, at least I requested them to be. My clinic has been less than helpful in a lot of cases, so I won't be surprised if I have to go in for even more bloodwork.

I'm just about to turn 21, so peptides may be a route to try.
When I get my blood test results, I will post them for you to check out. Thanks for the input!

[BBJT200]

Just picked up labs.

5/11/212: Total testosterone: 337. TSH of 2.2

7/25/2012: 317 total testosterone. WTF? MY DOCTOR SAID THIS WAS NORMAL? I HAVE THE TEST LEVELS OF A 90 YEAR OLD.

[ac guy]

I did some extreme dieting when I was 18. I ate no more than 500 cals a day for a year, totally screwed my metabolism. Time was the only thing that took care of the problem for me. Getting into lifting, and eating right allowed me to consume more and more until It wasn't even an issue by the time I was 20 -21. I still have to watch what I eat if I'm not doing any lifting or exercise, but right now, I can eat 4000 cals a day and not gain, not trying to throw it in your face, just showing you that it is reversible. Just accept it for what it is , give your body time to come around, and you'll be good.

[Brohim]

Just picked up labs.

5/11/212: Total testosterone: 337. TSH of 2.2

7/25/2012: 317 total testosterone. WTF? MY DOCTOR SAID THIS WAS NORMAL? I HAVE THE TEST LEVELS OF A 90 YEAR OLD.

Hey man sorry you are going through this but it's something that you decided to do. You need to sort out the underlying psychiatric problem's you have that made you have a negative image of your body.


With that said, it's no problem. Anything that won't matter in 5 years is not a problem. What happened is you didn't feed your body. Your body is a living organism and thought it was dying. So it shutdown your metabolism, probably cranked up your cortisol until you ran out of Pregnenolone (mother of all hormones) then your whole system collapsed and adrenals shutdown. Your TSH is high. You probably had some adrenal failure which takes a while to come back from.

I made the same mistake as you did which was I ate too little and exercised too much without taking proper nutrition. I got adrenal fatigue and it took a while to come back from. You can take DHEA and also Pregnenolone. I took something called Adrenal support and preg. was it's main ingredient. It's basically raw material for your body to build hormones. You test is low only because of the low calories. Your body takes your Pregnenolone which is like bricks. It can use it to build testosterone or use it to build cortisol and a few other hormones. If you body is dying it will move the bricks over to the cortisol pathway and your test will suffer.

I would take both of those products and eat every 2 hours even something small like chicken and rice. Eat even if your not hungry. And eat a bunch of carbs every 3 or 4 day's to spike your leptin if you can. If you do this overtime your will speed up your BMR and have your life back. I did and you can too. My test was close to yours and I tested 2 weeks ago and it's back up to 600 and free test at the top of the range!

[BBJT200]

I did some extreme dieting when I was 18. I ate no more than 500 cals a day for a year, totally screwed my metabolism. Time was the only thing that took care of the problem for me. Getting into lifting, and eating right allowed me to consume more and more until It wasn't even an issue by the time I was 20 -21. I still have to watch what I eat if I'm not doing any lifting or exercise, but right now, I can eat 4000 cals a day and not gain, not trying to throw it in your face, just showing you that it is reversible. Just accept it for what it is , give your body time to come around, and you'll be good.

I'm not in the typical boat. Losing my physique = losing my job, and I have bills to pay like you wouldn't believe.
Waiting a few years for things to maybe come around is not an option.

Hey man sorry you are going through this but it's something that you decided to do. You need to sort out the underlying psychiatric problem's you have that made you have a negative image of your body.


With that said, it's no problem. Anything that won't matter in 5 years is not a problem. What happened is you didn't feed your body. Your body is a living organism and thought it was dying. So it shutdown your metabolism, probably cranked up your cortisol until you ran out of Pregnenolone (mother of all hormones) then your whole system collapsed and adrenals shutdown. Your TSH is high. You probably had some adrenal failure which takes a while to come back from.

I made the same mistake as you did which was I ate too little and exercised too much without taking proper nutrition. I got adrenal fatigue and it took a while to come back from. You can take DHEA and also Pregnenolone. I took something called Adrenal support and preg. was it's main ingredient. It's basically raw material for your body to build hormones. You test is low only because of the low calories. Your body takes your Pregnenolone which is like bricks. It can use it to build testosterone or use it to build cortisol and a few other hormones. If you body is dying it will move the bricks over to the cortisol pathway and your test will suffer.

I would take both of those products and eat every 2 hours even something small like chicken and rice. Eat even if your not hungry. And eat a bunch of carbs every 3 or 4 day's to spike your leptin if you can. If you do this overtime your will speed up your BMR and have your life back. I did and you can too. My test was close to yours and I tested 2 weeks ago and it's back up to 600 and free test at the top of the range!

I don't think I look bad, but I have to work 10x harder than I should to look mediocre. If I stop, I will hit 20% body fat in no time, and that isn't acceptable. The body image issues stem from not being able to achieve what I set my heart on. As I stand now, It's impossible for me to get there. Thus, body image issue. If I can resolve the underlying issues, then it will fade and no longer be a problem.

That is possible about the adrenal fatigue-- i've been taking an iodine/iodide supplement in case of that to support my thyroid. I'll look around for pregnenolone. I don't see dhea as an option because from what I read, it increases test by around 50%, and estrogen by around 300%. Correct me if i'm wrong, but I don't need even more of a testosterone/estrogen imbalance.

I'm going to just go see a new doctor tomorrow and throw it on my credit card. The clinic at my university obviously isn't up to par with what I need, so what has to be done has to be done. I'll keep that in mind about frequent meals. I already do eat every few hours (and trust me, I AM hungry) I just keep my portions small.

I am glad to hear that you were able to recover from that! I'll see where I end up...hopefully I can be in the same boat eventually.

[that guy1234]

Maybe you should just eat chicken, tuna, and raw greens. It's not possible to get fat off that. Go buy a book called the abs diet and live it. You have to force yourself to eat.

[BBJT200]

Maybe you should just eat chicken, tuna, and raw greens. It's not possible to get fat off that. Go buy a book called the abs diet and live it. You have to force yourself to eat.

I appreciate your intent to help, but you really need to learn more about nutrition before handing out advice. Otherwise, you're likely to give bad advice such as this. And yes...it IS possible to get fat off of that. Simply put, Cals in > cals out, = fat gain. If metabolism is suppressed, there's a whole other variable to consider.

A diet like that is likely to lead to malnutrition, such as what I did to myself earlier this past year. That would be like doing it all over again.
Zero dietary fat leads to a ton of health problems. I've experienced them first hand, and they are NOT fun.

[that guy1234]

I appreciate your intent to help, but you really need to learn more about nutrition before handing out advice. Otherwise, you're likely to give bad advice such as this. And yes...it IS possible to get fat off of that. Simply put, Cals in > cals out, = fat gain. If metabolism is suppressed, there's a whole other variable to consider.

A diet like that is likely to lead to malnutrition, such as what I did to myself earlier this past year. That would be like doing it all over again.
Zero dietary fat leads to a ton of health problems. I've experienced them first hand, and they are NOT fun.

But the only way to make your metabolism work is to rebuild it by introducing food, right? I'm not saying the above should be your entire nutrition plan. I'm just saying to slowly add lots of good calories. I didn't mean to sound offensive and I apologize if I came off rude.

[BBJT200]

But the only way to make your metabolism work is to rebuild it by introducing food, right? I'm not saying the above should be your entire nutrition plan. I'm just saying to slowly add lots of good calories. I didn't mean to sound offensive and I apologize if I came off rude.

If you read the whole post, I haven't been at 700 cals for a long time. I exercise like a psycho, in order to be able to eat more. I eat extremely cleanly. I probably came off sounding rude myself -- wasn't intentional. Sorry if I did!

But yes...I am slowly introducing more and more food.