First thread! Noob seeking advice, check out my stuff!

[629]

Hey everyone, thanks for coming in, I appreciate any and all help and advice I will get here.

1) Age: 22.5, 23 in June
2) Weight and Percent BodyFat: 195 lbs, 22% BF
3) Years of Consistant Training experience: Began training February 2011, seriously training since February 2012
4) Previous Cycle experience: None
6) Cycle Goals: Mass/recomp if possible

That's my basic info. Long story short is I've been obese most of my life, started 40% 240lbs in February 2011, worked my way down to where I am now. Suffered 2 herniated discs, 1 bulging in low back from stupid training. Went through months of hellish pain, physical therapy, and epidurals. None of it worked until I started being proactive and making my health a top priority. Today my back is no longer an issue, I suffer no symptoms and do heavy leg exercises including RDLs (occasionally front squat, no deads). Routine is lifting 5 times a week, cardio after every session. Over the past several months I have become increasingly strict with diet. High protein (150-180g), moderate carbs (150-200g), moderate fats (100-130g). At the moment I am trying to lean out.

By cycling I am hoping to add 5-8+ lbs of raw muscle that I can successfully retain as well as dropping some fat. Before making this post I thoroughly read Anabolics 2009 and made 10+ pages of notes to read up on. I'm hoping I have at least a basic working knowledge of AAS.

Proposed cycle:

12 Weeks
Test E - 500mg (bi-weekly injections of 250mg)
Methenolone acetate - 100mg/day (Also considered EQ 400mg/week but prefer not to because of advice I have read on here of it's lack of effectiveness)

My reasoning for running the primo on top of the test is to gain some leaning/hardening effect to muscle gained. I would like to run acetate instead of enanthate simply so I do not need to be injecting two compounds per week.

PCT (much of this is based off Anabolics 2009 and truthfully I am confused by conflicting routines I have read on here)
Beginning 2 weeks after last Test E injection

hCG - 2500 IU every other day for 16 days
Clomid - 50mg twice a day for 30 days
Nolvadex - 20mg per day for 45 days

On here I've read about arimidex to take during cycle but I am uncertain of how that would work, need some clarification.

I've got a lot more questions but I don't want to make this too long (as if it isn't already), would appreciate any insight you guys can provide.

Thanks!

[629]

Just to give you guys an idea of progress I've already made...

[OdinsOtherSon]

At your age, you need to seriously reconsider this proposed cycle. You're risking permanent damage to your still developing endocrine system. Much reading is needed on your part. I highly suggest the following two just for an intro. Read all the stickies then spend the biggest part of your time in the nutrition/diet forum. The exercise of a little more patience on your part will be greatly rewarded! Welcome to the forum.

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...cles-Look-here

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...g-and-Steroids

[SportbikerKid]

Take a year or more and cut natty to 7% bodyfat, then consider a cycle.

[629]

At your age, you need to seriously reconsider this proposed cycle. You're risking permanent damage to your still developing endocrine system. Much reading is needed on your part. I highly suggest the following two just for an intro. Read all the stickies then spend the biggest part of your time in the nutrition/diet forum. The exercise of a little more patience on your part will be greatly rewarded! Welcome to the forum.

Thanks for the reply. I've read through the stickies but I will give then another look. Is the only issue here my age?

Take a year or more and cut natty to 7% bodyfat, then consider a cycle.

Just out of curiosity would taking a cutting agent such as clen be detrimental due to my age?

[stpete]

You don't need to cut to 7%. Don't listen to that.

But your age, yes. you run the risk of damaging your endocrine system. and unless, ED and fatigue sound like fun, i would stay away from AAS right now. Here's a good read and there's many more. You can do a lot right now w/your natural hormones, a good diet and solid training. Nevermind the read, i see odins already put it there.

Good luck. Stick around and do some more research. There's a lot to learn and a lot to lose if you don't do it right.

[SportbikerKid]

No. clen does not mess with your hormones.

Most people on here say wait until you are at a low bodyfat for clen because it is hella easy to lose fat when you're in the double digits. Clen basically won't even give you a boost, and it just creates unnecessary stress on your heart.

[629]

You don't need to cut to 7%. Don't listen to that.

But your age, yes. you run the risk of damaging your endocrine system. and unless, ED and fatigue sound like fun, i would stay away from AAS right now. Here's a good read and there's many more. You can do a lot right now w/your natural hormones, a good diet and solid training. Nevermind the read, i see odins already put it there.

Good luck. Stick around and do some more research. There's a lot to learn and a lot to lose if you don't do it right.

Thanks for the reply. What do see as the minimum age to begin AAS? Does the risk of damage decrease exponentially as you age? Any studies on this (just curious, not refuting your statement).

Also any thoughts on using clen alone to cut?

[SportbikerKid]

Thanks for the reply. What do see as the minimum age to begin AAS? Does the risk of damage decrease exponentially as you age? Any studies on this (just curious, not refuting your statement).

Also any thoughts on using clen alone to cut?

well currently i'm a natty 20 year old, so my opinion on this might be skewed. Some kids recover just fine. Some are messed up for life. You're playing the odds if you start at a young age.

As I understand it, under 23 you have a huge risk of messing yourself up for life. 23-24 there is still a chance. 25 you're pretty dam safe. It would be alot better to get older guys opinions on this subject however.

[songdog]

Despite you being too young.Bro you have not been training long enough.listen to wat was said and get your diet in order and your bf down.Build a solid base then you will be ready.

[stpete]

Thanks for the reply. What do see as the minimum age to begin AAS? Does the risk of damage decrease exponentially as you age? Any studies on this (just curious, not refuting your statement).

Also any thoughts on using clen alone to cut?

IMO, you're almost there. I'd give it another year. You sound like you have a good head on your shoulders and wanting to do the right thing. Another year won't hurt you at all. As a matter of fact, it can only help. Use the year to experiment more in dieting and training. It will prove invaluable.

I waited till i was 27 although i had it all around me from the age of 16. I think you'll enjoy lifting and learning naturally and taking advantage of the natural hormones running wild thru you right now.

I say no to clen. That shit's dangerous imo. Get yourself a good diet together, coupled w/a lot of cardio. This will yield more natural benefits.

If i can help any farther feel free to PM me. I'll help as best i can.

Good Luck

[629]

IMO, you're almost there. I'd give it another year. You sound like you have a good head on your shoulders and wanting to do the right thing. Another year won't hurt you at all. As a matter of fact, it can only help. Use the year to experiment more in dieting and training. It will prove invaluable.

I waited till i was 27 although i had it all around me from the age of 16. I think you'll enjoy lifting and learning naturally and taking advantage of the natural hormones running wild thru you right now.

I say no to clen. That shit's dangerous imo. Get yourself a good diet together, coupled w/a lot of cardio. This will yield more natural benefits.

If i can help any farther feel free to PM me. I'll help as best i can.

Good Luck

Thanks again. Truthfully I am simply impatient, especially since I used to be obese and want to turn this around and drop jaws ASAP. Another year will do, just more motivation to keep it intense in the gym and smart outside of it.

Just a side note...I find it strange and concerning that throughout the 500+ pages of Anabolics 2009, what appears to be a very thorough book, not ONCE does the author bring up age in relation to the endocrine system...almost feel like I wasted my time reading through it only to be neglected that one critical piece of information. Oh well, 10+ pages of notes I took will probably be useful in the future...assuming it's all correct lol.

[stpete]

Thanks again. Truthfully I am simply impatient, especially since I used to be obese and want to turn this around and drop jaws ASAP. Another year will do, just more motivation to keep it intense in the gym and smart outside of it.

Just a side note...I find it strange and concerning that throughout the 500+ pages of Anabolics 2009, what appears to be a very thorough book, not ONCE does the author bring up age in relation to the endocrine system...almost feel like I wasted my time reading through it only to be neglected that one critical piece of information. Oh well, 10+ pages of notes I took will probably be useful in the future...assuming it's all correct lol.

Well, i know the book you speak of. I think. And you are correct, it wouldn't. But like i said, you are on the edge of that age. If you choose to use AAS please let us know so we can help you in making sure everything is set up just right for you. you're in the right place. Forget that book, or any other book for that matter. Stick around and you'll learn invaluable info right here.

[629]

Just out of curiosity what is the general consensus on primobolan? Any notable differences in effectiveness between acetate and enanthate?