Shut down vs, HARD shutdown

[Lunk1]

I have been noticing the phrase "hard shutdown" being used more an more frequently lately. It get's used especially when referencing 19nors and mainly when speaking of Deca!

Can someone please explain the difference between shutdown and hard shutdown to me? For the record I have plenty of experience running 19nors but if someone feels the need to tell me something I don't know about them...kool!

[binsser]

EASY ....

Shutdown- test c/ p / e recovery 6 weeks

Hard shutdown - tren / deca recovery 6 weeks

Differance F@ck all but 19 s can shut you down for alittle longer if you dont do pct properly!!!

[Lunk1]

Ummmm you just stated both recoveries were 6 weeks. Why then is one supposed to be harder than the other. By the way...recovery time can be based on a lot more than the compounds used. 20 weeks on 1 mg Test EW may take a bit longer than 6 weeks. Recovery at all isn't even a gaurantee!

[Tron3219]

Ummmm you just stated both recoveries were 6 weeks. Why then is one supposed to be harder than the other. By the way...recovery time can be based on a lot more than the compounds used. 20 weeks on 1 mg Test EW may take a bit longer than 6 weeks. Recovery at all isn't even a gaurantee!

Lunk, I'm a little confused by your question. I KNOW U KNOW the answer. Just in a condescending mood? Lol

[Lunk1]

I just want to make sure I'm not missing something. To me shutting down your HPTA is shuting down your HPTA! I keep hearing "Deca shuts you down hard bro" when in reality it simply shuts you down the same as test.

Again...maybe I'm wrong and just need to be set straight! If thats the case I'm all ears (or eyes in this case)

[anahny]

I always thought hard shutdown means you have serious problems related to test ( maybe ed or no libido) . Could be wrong.

[qscgugcsq]

I would think its because deca stay a really long time in the body making it harder to recover... with other compound it easier because they are out faster...

That's only my opinion, you can't shutdown lower than 0 so their is no difference between 0 in 4 weeks or 0 in 2 weeks you still need to recover from 0...

[Metalject]

I would assume shutdown refers to a decline in natural testosterone production, whereas hard shutdown a total suppression of natural production or at least close to it.

[DanB]

to me when shut down your shutdown, simple as that, a 19nor will do it quicker but I posted something the other day showing that LH and FSH is shut down in men in about 4 weeks using 250-500mg test cyp, you be supressed for a few weeks first and also supressed if running a mild oral but I neverstood these 2 seperate versions of shutdown, when levels hit 0 they cannot go lower can they?

[Lunk1]

I would assume shutdown refers to a decline in natural testosterone production, whereas hard shutdown a total suppression of natural production or at least close to it.

I can see where you are going with that logic metel but I believe shutdown is just that...hard, soft or in between. Suppression is not shutdown...it's suppression! The way it keeps getting asked here it is like Deca will shut down natty test production MORE than 800mg of test being injected.

I agree with qscqugcsq (change that name to something easier by the way lol). Shutdown to 0 is it....you can't go deeper!

[Lunk1]

to me when shut down your shutdown, simple as that, a 19nor will do it quicker but I posted something the other day showing that LH and FSH is shut down in men in sbout 4 weeks, you be supressed for a few weeks I first but once your levels are 0 they cant get any lower so I nuever understood these 2 seperate versions of shutdown

Yes Dan...I was in the thread I agree...perhaps I'm more trying to make a oint then to ask a real question. But...if there is a different degree of being shutdown or a reason one is more shutdown than the other...I too am here to learn!

[DanB]

Yes Dan...I was in the thread I agree...perhaps I'm more trying to make a oint then to ask a real question. But...if there is a different degree of being shutdown or a reason one is more shutdown than the other...I too am here to learn!

ah nevermind me i only half read your op lol, you were making the point of what i posted, ah now i see, watching tv and posting at same time lol

[Metalject]

I can see where you are going with that logic metel but I believe shutdown is just that...hard, soft or in between. Suppression is not shutdown...it's suppression! The way it keeps getting asked here it is like Deca will shut down natty test production MORE than 800mg of test being injected.

I agree with qscqugcsq (change that name to something easier by the way lol). Shutdown to 0 is it....you can't go deeper!

Now I know I'm being difficult, but just for the sake of argument if I were taking 30mg of Anavar/ed and 100mg of Proviron/ed what would you call that? I don't think you could call it shutdown.

Look at it this way. You have $1,000 in your bank account. The next day you have $500, can you now say you're completely broke? Of course, not, you just have less money than you did before.

[MickeyKnox]

Shutdown is shutdown. Period. You cannot turn off a light switch and more if you hit the button harder.

To me being shutdown literally means that youre not producing any testosterone and your LH and FSH are shutdown and your HPTA (Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Testicular-Axis) and your GnRH (Gonadotropin-Releasing Hormone) are not functioning.

[Metalject]

Shutdown is shutdown. Period. You cannot turn off a light switch and more if you hit the button harder.

To me being shutdown literally means that youre not producing any testosterone and your LH and FSH are shutdown and your HPTA (Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Testicular-Axis) and your GnRH (Gonadotropin-Releasing Hormone) are not functioning.

Agree, but it is possible to use steroids without this total shutdown as you just described.

[MickeyKnox]

Agree, but it is possible to use steroids without this total shutdown as you just described.

Correct. But my comment was a response to the definition of "shutdown", not suppressed.

[Jonnyg419]

Soft shutdown= hard dick, Hard shut down= soft dick.........sorry, just kidding

[Lunk1]

I know what yo0u are saying metal and I am not arguing that taking certain steroids at certain doses will result in suppression vs. shutdown. Thats not the issue. I'm trying to find out what the hell the difference is between being shutdown and being shutdown HARD!

I keep seeing things like "Dude, Deca wiill shut ya down hard bro"! While the reality is...500mg EW of test will result in an equal amount of shutdown...100%!

[Bio-Active]

There are many variables here. Shutdown is shutdown but how long we're you shut down? If there is a long period of shut down and testicular disfunction I would say that is shutdown hard?

[Lunk1]

There are many variables here. Shutdown is shutdown but how long we're you shut down? If there is a long period of shut down and testicular disfunction I would say that is shutdown hard?

Yes. Jim...but many factors can play a roll in that. Time on cycle, dosage, PCT, individual response...so on!

I don't think just cause you chose Deca or Tren your going to experience a "harder" shutdown, when as said early 0 functionis 0 function!

[stpete]

It refers to recovery time. A simple test/deca cycle will shut you down. Among others. But lets say i did a cycle like this: 1,000mgs test EW, 600mgs deca EW, 600mgs tren EW, and dbol at the end and beginning. Obviously there would be different protocol than the simple test or test/deca cycle. Dosages and lengths of cycle will be a determining factor in PCT, AI's HCG.

Does this make sense? I'm pretty sure that's what you mean. But i could be wrong.

[Bio-Active]

It refers to recovery time. A simple test/deca cycle will shut you down. Among others. But lets say i did a cycle like this: 1,000mgs test EW, 600mgs deca EW, 600mgs tren EW, and dbol at the end and beginning. Obviously there would be different protocol than the simple test or test/deca cycle. Dosages and lengths of cycle will be a determining factor in PCT, AI's HCG.

Does this make sense? I'm pretty sure that's what you mean. But i could be wrong.

I get what you are saying here but wouldn't the higher dosage give you the impression that you are shut down hard just because the active life of the compound would be longer?

[Bio-Active]

Any androgen's put in to your body causes shutdown to some degree. Deca has an active life longer than test that's why we run test for a week longer. With out running the test a week longer it would seem that you are shut down harder cause you would use up the test before the active life of the deca. Does this make any sense?

[Lunk1]

It refers to recovery time. A simple test/deca cycle will shut you down. Among others. But lets say i did a cycle like this: 1,000mgs test EW, 600mgs deca EW, 600mgs tren EW, and dbol at the end and beginning. Obviously there would be different protocol than the simple test or test/deca cycle. Dosages and lengths of cycle will be a determining factor in PCT, AI's HCG.

Does this make sense? I'm pretty sure that's what you mean. But i could be wrong.

Your point is a valid one Pete and of course it would change the protocals used! My point is the constant comments about Deca or Tren shutting someone down harder than another compound! Dosages and cycle lenghts are not even discussed when these comments are made. So to say one compound will shut you down MORE than another, when you can only be shutdown to 0 is a false statement (the way I see it).

[Lunk1]

I get what you are saying here but wouldn't the higher dosage give you the impression that you are shut down hard just because the active life of the compound would be longer?

I dont believe active life of the compound has any effect on being shutdown more or less than another compound will do! It would play a roll in how LONG but not how HARD!

Any androgen's put in to your body causes shutdown to some degree. Deca has an active life longer than test that's why we run test for a week longer. With out running the test a week longer it would seem that you are shut down harder cause you would use up the test before the active life of the deca. Does this make any sense?

Yes...this makes sense IF someone were sill enough to drop test before Deca given the known half lives. My OP is more concerningone compound somehow causing some sort of majical HARDER shutdown than another!

[Bio-Active]

maybe some just dont recover as well or just dont do a correct pct?

[Lunk1]

maybe some just dont recover as well or just dont do a correct pct?

BUT...Jim...let me ask you a ?. Would you say that Deca shuts you down harder than Test (non dose or cycle time specific)?

[Bio-Active]

BUT...Jim...let me ask you a ?. Would you say that Deca shuts you down harder than Test (non dose or cycle time specific)?

No i don't think it shuts you down harder it just has a longer active life. What do you think?

[Lunk1]

No i don't think it shuts you down harder it just has a longer active life. What do you think?

Absolutely...no argument here on that!

[flyguy6661]

Why is it then the one time I ran deca at 300mg a week and I used test 2 weeks longer then deca that my dick was out of action for about 2/3 weeks where as when I come off a test/oxy's cycle my libido and erections are fine ? My cock may fluctuate from time to time but that's all ??? I would love to run deca again but that 2/3 weeks scared the shit outta me !!!!

[fit2bOld]

Why is it then the one time I ran deca at 300mg a week and I used test 2 weeks longer then deca that my dick was out of action for about 2/3 weeks where as when I come off a test/oxy's cycle my libido and erections are fine ? My cock may fluctuate from time to time but that's all ??? I would love to run deca again but that 2/3 weeks scared the shit outta me !!!!

Due to failure to control estrogen is what gives you limp dick while running 19 nors. I've run plenty of deca without sides sheerly by paying attention to and controlling estrogen

[flyguy6661]

I was using arimidex .25 mg ed ?? But I always thought that if you ran a test only cycle your not shut down 100% until you use 19nors which do shut you down 100% ??

[Bio-Active]

I was using arimidex .25 mg ed ?? But I always thought that if you ran a test only cycle your not shut down 100% until you use 19nors which do shut you down 100% ??

Any time you put more test or androgens in to your body then what your body produces it will coarse complete shut down. How you recover depends on cycle length, the compounds you use and your pct.

[Lunk1]

Any time you put more test or androgens in to your body then what your body produces it will coarse complete shut down. How you recover depends on cycle length, the compounds you use and your pct.

See, Jim...there is that misconseption!

[Bio-Active]

See, Jim...there is that misconseption!

Lunk..... I know we could go on and on forever. Ugh.....

[Lunk1]

Lunk..... I know we could go on and on forever. Ugh.....

I'll let it gooooooo! Thanks for your input in all of this!

[marcus300]

Your HPTA regulates the hormone balance in the body and its does this by 2 negative feedback loops estrogen and androgen, once it detects an increase in the body by one of these systems it will start to suppress and shutdown the HPTA. There are levels of suppression depending on dose and compounds used but the longer your suppressed shutdown will follow. Certain compounds will shutdown your system sooner than others and usually these compounds like deca and tren tend to be harsher to recover from, usually a more aggressive pct is needed or a longer one. In many cases its seems to take many weeks to fully recover full function of your HPTA when using these compounds and I think thats why some say it shuts you down harder, but that play on words isn't correct really because you cant shut it down any harder than when its shutdown, its recovery whats harder from these compounds.

[Granovich]

^^^ what Marcus said
As far as studies
There was a study marcus posted about 2-3 patiants each abused steroids differently
And they did different protocols with the. Until they recovered
One guy abusing ( not 19nors) recovered with 2000 iu hcg and serms after
While the guy who abused nandrones for 2 years. Couldnt recover from that
And thry did something like 5000 iu per shot for like 4 shots then did 2500 and added big doses of HMg and the. Serms
And his testosterone barely gOt to high 500's

I guess shut down hard means its hard to recover from even with solid PCT

[Bio-Active]

^^^ what Marcus said
As far as studies
There was a study marcus posted about 2-3 patiants each abused steroids differently
And they did different protocols with the. Until they recovered
One guy abusing ( not 19nors) recovered with 2000 iu hcg and serms after
While the guy who abused nandrones for 2 years. Couldnt recover from that
And thry did something like 5000 iu per shot for like 4 shots then did 2500 and added big doses of HMg and the. Serms
And his testosterone barely gOt to high 500's

I guess shut down hard means its hard to recover from even with solid PCT

Just out of curiosity how long we're they on gear?

[binsser]

Mmm i said 6 weeks because thats how quick i always recover but i went from a tren and test cycle to a 1750 mg of primo and 400mg of test with only 6 weeks rest between and my recovery and last few weeks did change because my dick didnt work properly that is a harder shutdown if you want to call it that but i would just say this time it was differant but i didnt like it one bit either..who would ur dick dont ****ing work lolol but ill only get it when messing about with tren nothing else strange!!!

So is it harder NO but it might feel like that too others so hence the sentance I WAS SHUTDOWN HARD !!