Topical Test to injections ???

[EverettCD]

In a week I will be changing from Fortesta to injections. My question for the Dr's on here, our resident experts & those that have made the change yourself is this: What did you do when you began injections? Did you continue to use the topical test for a few days or did you stop use as soon as you administered your first injection?

BW from March, I requested my most recent from a month or so ago, I'll post it when I receive it.

Test 794 -- (292-1052 NG/DL)
Free Test 23.4 -- (4.8-25 NG/DL)
SHGB 19 -- (16-94 NMOL/L)
E2 28 -- (<=63 PG/ML) Unsure of what specific E lab was done. My most recent & all future BW is E2 Sensitive.
Somatomedin-C 398 NG/ML (No range given)
FSH 0.3 MIU/ML
LH 0.1 MIU/ML
Prolactin 11.6 -- (3-30 NG/ML)
DHEA-S 468 -- (103-446 UG/DL)
Dihydrotestosterone 792 -- (106-719 PG/ML)
Cortisol 12 -- (2-25 UG/DL)
Vitamin D 25-Hydroxy 56 -- (No range given)
Vitamin B-12 565 -- (250-1100 PG/ML)
PSA 0.7 -- (<4.0 NG/ML)
PSA Free 0.16 NG/ML -- (No range given)
PSA % Free 23 -- (No range given)
T3 Uptake 30.7 -- (20-38.5 %)
T4 Total 6.0 -- (4.4-12.4 UG/DL)
FTI 1.84 -- (1.05-4.5)
TSH 0.6 -- (0.5-4.7 UIU/ML)


Any red flags here?

[sparverius]

I stopped topical cream and started with weekly injections. For the first couple weeks I ran low near the end of each week and had to use some cream to bridge the trough to the next injection.

When I got the first injection I still had some T from the cream in my system and was feeling real good for a couple days.

[sirupate]

I continued with the gel for up to a week. I don't think there was any need to do so and I didn't feel super special having done it, so, your call.

[EverettCD]

Thanks for the info guys. Were you guys injecting every 7 or 3.5 days?

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[PistolPete33]

I would continue using the cream for another week after your first injection. I wouldn't want my levels to drop and feel like total crap while the Test C was getting into my system. That said, at the end of the day it's not a huge deal. If you feel like crap for a week or two it's not the end of the world. I started with injections every 7 days but switched to every 3.5 days. I feel awesome every day of the week now.

[EverettCD]

Thank you for the info. I'll probably continue Fortesta use for a week after I begin my biweekly injections.

Anyone else?

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[Brazensol]

I just stopped the topical (wasn't working anyway) and started injections. I do one every 3.5 days (Monday morning and Thursday evening). Subq alternating either side of my navel. Straight in with no pinching of the fat layer. Slowly inject (~15 seconds). All done. No pain. No redness. No hot spots. No problems.

[EverettCD]

Thanks Braz, that's my plan for injecting as well.

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[2Sox]

I was using Androgel and it worked fine for me at the right dose; 3-4 pumps/day - but it got too expensive so I started injections. I just stopped the gel and started pinning. Once or twice a week didn't do it for me. I believe I'm a hyper excreter/metabolizer so I inject 40mg EOD and I feel pretty good. Just stated out so I'll just have to wait and see if this is right for me.

[Brazensol]

You are not doing much more than me but you do pin more often. I pin 130mgs/week (65mgs/3.5 days)... The androgel kept my test numbers dropping and then I still had to worry about contaminating the family. I find pinning, even twice a week, far more convenient.

In fact this reminds me I need to pin right now!

[2Sox]

You are not doing much more than me but you do pin more often. I pin 130mgs/week (65mgs/3.5 days)... The androgel kept my test numbers dropping and then I still had to worry about contaminating the family. I find pinning, even twice a week, far more convenient.

In fact this reminds me I need to pin right now!

I know what you mean about the convenience. I've heard the gel stops working on some people but that wasn't the case with me. I was being underdosed! When I finally realized that my dose wasn't high enough and twisted my docs arm hard enough to write for more, I felt much better - and much more libidinous. But I'm in the "doughnut hole" for the rest of the year and Test injections are way less costly.

Contamination with the gel wasn't an issue. My wife is on HRT with prog/estro/test cream and had welcomed the extra test she had gotten when we were intimate.

[redrockjk]

Brazensol. What type of test are you pinning
In your stomach

[Brazensol]

Brazensol. What type of test are you pinning
In your stomach

65mgs of test cyp every 3.5 days (for me Monday mornings and Thursday evenings works well). I do subq in the navel area (about an inch or two away from the navel to either side) and just alternate sides for each injection. I inject straight in and DO NOT pinch the fat. Since switching to this method I have NEVER (not once) had a sore spot, bruise, hot spot or any other issue whatsoever. I rarely even feel the needle breaking the skin. I used to pinch the love handles and that was more painful and created sore spots from time to time.

[redrockjk]

Thanks so much for the info.

[EverettCD]

Thank you to all for your input.

I had my appointment with the Doc yesterday, discussed my new protocol:
100mg Test Cyp every 4 days IM.
Continue HCG 150iu per day (it must work since my boys are 98.6% pre-TRT size & my awesome wife is pregnant Thank GOD).
Blood draw in 5-6 weeks. I asked about an AI, he stated that if BW & signs/symptoms indicates he'll send me a script.

The nurse had a short "class" with me about injecting, she know's what I do for a living so the class was short & I injected & hit the road with my script.

I asked my Dr. about 100mg every 4 days being on the high end of TRT, he said since I was having to use so much Fortesta & not responding well that he wants to start me at this dose & more than likely lower it after my 6 week BW. He also stated that he will base the dose adjustment (if needed) based on how I am feeling, quality of life & BW. Needless to say I am blessed to have a proactive & modern Dr. that cares about my well being, not only what is parked in his reserved parking spot close to the door.

A added bonus is that my 200mg/ml vial of Watson Test Cyp is only $5 with insurance. The Fortesta copay discount card expired last month, it was going to cost $600-$700 per month, insurance doesn't cover it. Also my wife is no longer worried about being exposed. Happy wife = Happy life.

What does everyone think about this new protocol? Later on down the road after I get balance on Test Cyp I may try SubQ injection since I have read quite a few successful threads about it here. What about injecting every 4th day as apposed to every 3.5 days as I read so many do? Will 12 +/- hours really make all that big of a difference?

Post #1 updated with BW.

Thanks again for all the help & advice. This forum is a gold mine of information.

[Brazensol]

Are you getting to do the injections yourself or do you have to go to the doc's office? Subq just seems so much more convenient than IM and seems to aromatize less. Injecting every 3.5 days keeps you on the same schedule week in and week out. Doing it every four days means more work to keep on top of when injections are due. For me, I know every Monday morning and every Thursday evening is injection time. If I did it every four days I think I would end up missing/delaying injections and I'd definately have to keep track of it somewhere. The twelve hours really won't be much of a factor but 3.5 is much more convenient.

[Buddyguy]

I know what you mean about the convenience. I've heard the gel stops working on some people but that wasn't the case with me. I was being underdosed! When I finally realized that my dose wasn't high enough and twisted my docs arm hard enough to write for more, I felt much better - and much more libidinous. But I'm in the "doughnut hole" for the rest of the year and Test injections are way less costly.

Contamination with the gel wasn't an issue. My wife is on HRT with prog/estro/test cream and had welcomed the extra test she had gotten when we were intimate.

I know what you mean I got prescribed 5g androgel which doesn't so anything but when I take 10g I can definetly start to feel it..but this woul cost me 300 monthly no thanks! In the process of finding someone who will work with me

[EverettCD]

Are you getting to do the injections yourself or do you have to go to the doc's office? Subq just seems so much more convenient than IM and seems to aromatize less. Injecting every 3.5 days keeps you on the same schedule week in and week out. Doing it every four days means more work to keep on top of when injections are due. For me, I know every Monday morning and every Thursday evening is injection time. If I did it every four days I think I would end up missing/delaying injections and I'd definately have to keep track of it somewhere. The twelve hours really won't be much of a factor but 3.5 is much more convenient.

I am injecting myself, I had to go to the Dr's office for my first injection so they could teach me the correct method. I'm sure it's a CYA thing.

I'm picking up what you're putting down about SubQ. That's how I've been injecting my HCG, it's so simple & painless.

As for remembering what days to inject I use the calendar on my phone that syncs with my laptop. I have the "event" set to repeat every 4 days with an alarm to remind me. About a year ago I gave into technology & stopped using my old spiral calendar that I've used for years.

Thanks for the feedback.

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[mmg1958]

What is cost of a bottle of 1% Androgel these days?

[dreadnok89]

What is cost of a bottle of 1% Androgel these days?

cost me 65 bones with insurance

[EverettCD]

What is cost of a bottle of 1% Androgel these days?

It depends if your insurance provider covers it or not. One of the reasons I changed to Test Cyp is due to the cost of topical gel's that I had used not being covered by insurance. If we were to lose our insurance Test Cyp cash price is only about $65, $5 after insurance.

[2Sox]

It depends if your insurance provider covers it or not. One of the reasons I changed to Test Cyp is due to the cost of topical gel's that I had used not being covered by insurance. If we were to lose our insurance Test Cyp cash price is only about $65, $5 after insurance.

Pretty much the same with me. I just picked up a 10mL vial of test cyp for $44 with a coupon for CVS. Cash price without insurance. The local pharmacy near my doc's office charges $85- cash price for he same vial. Both prices are not bad at all. Lasts about two months or more.

The cost of Androgel depends entirely on your insurance and the discount card that doctors have been giving out for it. You can get it online also. It's called the Restoration Program:

Program Overview

[MRNJ1992]

Most guys here do injections every 3.5 days. Also incorporate HCG and an AI if needed. I started with Androgel which was a waste of time. When I had bloodwork done with the gel it was as high as 1500mg. Problem was I felt no different. With the injections you feel the difference within 3 weeks or so. Good luck with your protocol.

[2Sox]

MRN,

The opposite effect of what you experienced on Androgel is just as common.

Withing two days, I was feeling great with Androgel. As with all TRT, a person has to be given the correct dosage. Within two days - not three weeks - I was feeling great on shots too.

Everyone is different and there is no one-size-fits-all protocol. Go with whatever works for you.

[dreadnok89]

Most guys here do injections every 3.5 days. Also incorporate HCG and an AI if needed. I started with Androgel which was a waste of time. When I had bloodwork done with the gel it was as high as 1500mg. Problem was I felt no different. With the injections you feel the difference within 3 weeks or so. Good luck with your protocol.

if your getting numbers like maybe its not hormones thats your prob? why would it matter which way you get it?

[2Sox]

Most guys here do injections every 3.5 days. Also incorporate HCG and an AI if needed. I started with Androgel which was a waste of time. When I had bloodwork done with the gel it was as high as 1500mg. Problem was I felt no different. With the injections you feel the difference within 3 weeks or so. Good luck with your protocol.

It has also been my observation that many - not all - who take gels are fairly new to TRT and are not aware that taking an AI is very often necessary. That's why you often hear something like, "When I first started on Androgel, I felt great but later on I didn't feel the same." OR "I felt like crap after awhile." I think this is because E2 levels were creeping up and negated the positive effect of the T. (It has also been reported that for some, the gels stop working.) What happened to me was something like this. I upped my dose and started low dose ai and I felt really good. I wouldn't have known about this without this forum.

Edit: Also, unless you've taken a poll, it's inaccurate to say that "most guys do injections every 3.5 days". It's becoming increasingly common to hear from posters who inject low doses EOD and even ED. Just like it's becoming common to hear from people who now do SQ injections and not IM.