TRT in MMA

[NEFLRick]

I'm a bit too old now--44-but I trained MMA, competed in jiu jitsu and was a judge for amateur MMA for a lot of years. So I love MMA an watch it all of the time. There are rumblings they should ban TRT use throughout MMA. Dana White (UFC) originally was in favor of TRT but has recently switched his stance to wanting it banned.

Now, having been on TRT for a few months, my thoughts are it is absolutely cheating for these guys to use TRT while competing. I believe they should either allow EVERYONE to use it (if they want) or just not allow it. Obviously, there are ways around the testing because--for the most part--testing isn't random. You get tested either right before or right after your fight. Not usually during training. So, it's fairly easy to work around that.

Anyway, just thought it is an interesting discussion.

-->clicky<--

[Brett N]

The problem isn't TRT in MMA, the problem is the abuse of it. Most of these guys aren't running numbers in the 700-900 range. They run it more like a cycle and up to 6 times what is considered the "normal" range of testosterone in one's body. What is the range allowed then? I have never seen exact numbers but the way they talk about it, it seems that someone up around 1800 would completely ok. My opinion - if you are over 1000 - you are taking too high of a dose to be considered TRT anymore.

Damn right that is cheating. That's why people retire when they hit 35 in most professional sports. That is when we have passed the prime. I'm 42 and on TRT I feel stronger than I did at 35. If I was at 1500 T all the time - I could only imagine how strong I would be and that isn't even training 1/3 as hard as these pros.

[slates]

I wouldn't want to see TRT banned -- a lot of today's best and most exciting fighters would be nothing without it. Pretty much anyone can get a TRT prescription (especially pro athletes), so I don't really see how it's an unfair advantage.

[jomamma007]

the problem is that most guys were jacking up their levels during their training camp to recover faster so they could train more.
Then titrating down to the allowed level before compeititon.

Dana's testing everyone on it now every week.
Honestly though, I'm 22 years old on trt and I don't feel like a superhuman going from a 300 test level to a 1100 test level. athletically speaking I was in my prime around a 484 T level. The higher levels just lead to to many other problems. Probably because of my age but still. I've seen plenty of older men go on it, like my dad. Sure did he get stronger and more defined and muscular, yeah but it didn't heal his injuiries, it didn't teach him new techniques and put hours of training in him. He's better at 55 now then 45 , but you'll never even be close to your athletic prime at 45+ then you are as a healthy 20 year old no matter how much test and gh you take. You could be stronger and be able to lift more, but mma is way more then just raw strength.

Just my 2 cents.

Unless your Vitor Belfort haha!

[NEFLRick]

Well, it's not a matter of what level they're going to, it's just plain cheating. I'm a HUGE Dan Henderson fan--always have been--but, without TRT he wouldn't be competing. Why? Because of the drugs he did in the past. To me, that's just plain cheating. Why should guys like that get a pass while others are trying to stay clean or (at least)playing the game and cheating and getting away with it?

Now that I understand what TRT can do for you, I totally believe it's cheating. The level (at time of testing) has nothing to do with it. If I'm tested right after I do a shot, it'll be WAY high, if I wait longer, it'll be lower. I'll still be reaping the benefits of the training at the higher level even though I'll test at a lower level.

And, as I said, the guys doing TRT are doing so because their test production shut down from the other drugs they've done in the past. These aren't guys with legitimate test problems.

And the argument about it teaching new techniques/etc. is irrelevant. The hardest part of fighting is the actual training. If I can train harder because of TRT then I have an advantage. TRT does make you stronger when done with proper training. That is an advantage. I have almost always been much stronger than the people I've competed against. I've beaten guys with better technique because I was just so much stronger than them. If you know what you're doing, the extra strength ABSOLUTELY is an advantage. And, all things being equal (or close to equal), the stronger person will (usually) win.

Look, I love TRT and what it's done for me. However, I no longer compete. I also didn't go on TRT because of past drug use (I never did any in the past). But, I just don't think there's a place for it for these guys. It's just plain cheating. But, if you're going to allow it, let EVERYONE do it rather than play this game with the exemptions (purely political). Otherwise, don't let ANYONE do it.

Good discussion guys!

[jomamma007]

HMM well Dan Henderson never got busted for using AAS, plus he's what 42 years old. That alone warrants low test, and he didn't even use it a few fights ago, got off and said he felt no different and he looked the same.

Vitor on the other hands is destroying people and his physique has changed tremendously. He did get busted for AAS back in the day.

Pretty much if you're almost 40 and have low test because of your age, you shouldn't be competing at the pro level anymore. And if you're in your 20's your low test is probably because of previous steroid usage so you shouldn't be able to use trt now in competition.

Also you say you'll still be reaping the benefits of training and a higher level even when at a lower level. I don't really believe that's true. Skip your injections for 2 weeks and see where your strength and condition goes.

I think it's overrated but that's just my opinion. If you give it to a 40 year old they will still not be where they were in their 20's conditioning wise. And if you give it to a 20 year old, well his levels should be there in the first place.

[Brett N]

You also have to take into consideration that with TRT a fighter can train at the highest level for an extra XX years. Training is key in everything and a fighter training in his prime for 15 years is almost always going to have better technique than a fighter naturally training in his prime for 7 years.

I am not against TRT in MMA, I am against cheating the legally allowed limits to have an unfair advantage though.

[NEFLRick]

HMM well Dan Henderson never got busted for using AAS, plus he's what 42 years old. That alone warrants low test, and he didn't even use it a few fights ago, got off and said he felt no different and he looked the same.

Vitor on the other hands is destroying people and his physique has changed tremendously. He did get busted for AAS back in the day.

Pretty much if you're almost 40 and have low test because of your age, you shouldn't be competing at the pro level anymore. And if you're in your 20's your low test is probably because of previous steroid usage so you shouldn't be able to use trt now in competition.

Also you say you'll still be reaping the benefits of training and a higher level even when at a lower level. I don't really believe that's true. Skip your injections for 2 weeks and see where your strength and condition goes.

I think it's overrated but that's just my opinion. If you give it to a 40 year old they will still not be where they were in their 20's conditioning wise. And if you give it to a 20 year old, well his levels should be there in the first place.

Barry Bonds never tested positive for PEDs either. Doesn't mean he didn't use.

Again, I am a huge Hendo fan, I'd be shocked if he never used them throughout his wrestling career then his MMA career. Not to mention, he fought many years in Pride where, not only did they NOT test for PEDs, they actually wrote it in their contracts they wouldn't test for PEDs.

And you're right, miss your shots for 2 weeks and you fee like crap (maybe) but, until you do, you still reap the benefits of the training. Not to mention, do your shot, train your ass off, then don't do your shot for a week before the test. You'll be in range by then.

You do realize test is a steroid right? If you're in your 40s, do test and train properly. You'll absolutely be able to compete better with the younger guys. That's been proven time and again. I'm 44 and I can assure you, I'm able to do things I haven't been able to do since I was in my early 30s (at least). And I've only been on it for about 3 months now. I also don't train at the same level as these guys.

It absolutely gives you an advantage.

[NEFLRick]

You also have to take into consideration that with TRT a fighter can train at the highest level for an extra XX years. Training is key in everything and a fighter training in his prime for 15 years is almost always going to have better technique than a fighter naturally training in his prime for 7 years.

I am not against TRT in MMA, I am against cheating the legally allowed limits to have an unfair advantage though.

Also, keep in mind, the more experience you have in the cage, the better fighter you become. So the older guys have the training and the experience on top of that.

The problem with TRT is, unless they're testing them at the right time, you never really know whether they are cheating the legally allowed limits. It's very easy to time your shots to keep within the limits after a little bit of experience with your body. So the question then becomes, how do you properly regulate it?

[NEFLRick]

Looks like they have made a decision to ban it in MMA and the UFC is following suit. Debate is over for now.

-->clicky<--

[dreadnok89]

I'm a bit too old now--44-but I trained MMA, competed in jiu jitsu and was a judge for amateur MMA for a lot of years. So I love MMA an watch it all of the time. There are rumblings they should ban TRT use throughout MMA. Dana White (UFC) originally was in favor of TRT but has recently switched his stance to wanting it banned.

Now, having been on TRT for a few months, my thoughts are it is absolutely cheating for these guys to use TRT while competing. I believe they should either allow EVERYONE to use it (if they want) or just not allow it. Obviously, there are ways around the testing because--for the most part--testing isn't random. You get tested either right before or right after your fight. Not usually during training. So, it's fairly easy to work around that.



Anyway, just thought it is an interesting discussion.

-->clicky<--

first of all they arent using "TRT". hardcore steroids are a different problem. half these dudes need trt after they juice or take to many shots to the head. if someone uses andro gel and runs at 700 to 100 it is no way cheating. there will def be more problems on the womans side than mens . i was reading peoples comments and t was making my head hurt.

[dreadnok89]

Barry Bonds never tested positive for PEDs either. Doesn't mean he didn't use.

Again, I am a huge Hendo fan, I'd be shocked if he never used them throughout his wrestling career then his MMA career. Not to mention, he fought many years in Pride where, not only did they NOT test for PEDs, they actually wrote it in their contracts they wouldn't test for PEDs.

And you're right, miss your shots for 2 weeks and you fee like crap (maybe) but, until you do, you still reap the benefits of the training. Not to mention, do your shot, train your ass off, then don't do your shot for a week before the test. You'll be in range by then.

You do realize test is a steroid right? If you're in your 40s, do test and train properly. You'll absolutely be able to compete better with the younger guys. That's been proven time and again. I'm 44 and I can assure you, I'm able to do things I haven't been able to do since I was in my early 30s (at least). And I've only been on it for about 3 months now. I also don't train at the same level as these guys.

It absolutely gives you an advantage.

what advantages to someone who runs normal or high naturally? none at all

[Beethoven]

Neflrick I disagree. Trt for someone who is shut down simply brings you to where you should be naturally. You don't heal any faster, at least I haven't. You don't begin to get those benefits until you're at much higher doses, besides the guys doing steroids for enhancement are using other drugs, not test. Vitor is back because he is on trt, probably due to all the drugs he did back in the day. But that doesn't guarantee victories in MMA unless it brings you in an unfair level,(Cris Cyborg) Her hubby you know was juicing and couldn't beat Nick Diaz for the Strikeforce Championship, the drugs didn't help him out of an arm bar.

[slates]

Sad to hear that Vitor Belfort pulled out.

This TRT ban is a such a shame.

[Beethoven]

Sad to hear that Vitor Belfort pulled out.

This TRT ban is a such a shame.

Well he didn't pull out, he by virtue of trt is disqualified. He could still compete if he drops the trt. What's sad is the damage he did to himself with all the abuse that brought him to this point. I personally don't think he is able to win the Championship even with the trt, but that is just my humble opinion.

[NEFLRick]

Neflrick I disagree. Trt for someone who is shut down simply brings you to where you should be naturally. You don't heal any faster, at least I haven't. You don't begin to get those benefits until you're at much higher doses, besides the guys doing steroids for enhancement are using other drugs, not test. Vitor is back because he is on trt, probably due to all the drugs he did back in the day. But that doesn't guarantee victories in MMA unless it brings you in an unfair level,(Cris Cyborg) Her hubby you know was juicing and couldn't beat Nick Diaz for the Strikeforce Championship, the drugs didn't help him out of an arm bar.

The point is, these guys are doing higher doses so are abusing it and winding up with higher levels. This absolutely gives them an advantage.
'
The whole argument about doing drugs in sports not helping you is old and tired. If you're WAY bigger and stronger than your opponent--and everything else is even or close--you will have the advantage. This goes for almost EVERY sport.

In baseball, if I am already proficient at hitting a baseball, if I get bigger and stronger I will be able to hit the ball harder. That is an advantage. Ditto for pitching a ball. If I cannot do these things to start, no, drugs won't help.

If you're doing drugs, also gain an advantage in your ability to train harder, recover faster, etc. So you can use those advantages to get better and stronger or just stronger. The biggest reason people in MMA do drugs is because the training is so hard they need them to power through it--yes, I'm over-simplifying. The training is IMMENSELY harder than the actual competition.

[NEFLRick]

Technically, he did pull out. My gut tells me there is more to the story (and not just the obvious). He was randomly tested when he was in Vegas recently (because he was previously suspended). Nobody said what the results were but my gut says there must have been something negative in the test and this, along with the ban, made him pull out. There are 2 months before his next scheduled fight with Weidman. More than enough time to get his test levels down below where they'd have to be.

But I also agree that Weidman probably would have won that fight anyway.

[Beethoven]

We're on the same page, he is NOT doing trt, he is using trt to camouflage his AAS usage. He has needed it over his career because other than high boxing skill he has been suspect. (Technically) Now throw in Father Time that is catching up to him he needs the drugs more than ever. I have been in really good physical shape with a test level of 300. Some fighters actually do need the drugs to make up for their shortcomings. Marc Coleman, Vitor Belfort, Mark Kerr come to mind. Again though, none of these fighters were using trt level test, they were doing cycles. Two different things IMHO.

[NEFLRick]

Now, the question will be, how many other fighters do we see drop out. The guys who are making enough money can afford to do it in such a way as to keep them at a low risk to fail a test. However, not all fighters earn a lot of money--most barely make enough to live.

I'm a HUGE Hendo fan but I fear this may be the end for him.

[Beethoven]

Now, the question will be, how many other fighters do we see drop out. The guys who are making enough money can afford to do it in such a way as to keep them at a low risk to fail a test. However, not all fighters earn a lot of money--most barely make enough to live.

I'm a HUGE Hendo fan but I fear this may be the end for him.

I am also but he's done at this level. If he wants to fight in the smaller shows he will still be a draw. I prefer to see him go out as is and not embarrass himself as others have done. I remember "The Beast" show on the small local shows. He must have needed the money.

[NEFLRick]

I am also but he's done at this level. If he wants to fight in the smaller shows he will still be a draw. I prefer to see him go out as is and not embarrass himself as others have done. I remember "The Beast" show on the small local shows. He must have needed the money.

I'm with you. Although, he makes enough money between his fights and his gym and apparel interests that he can (conceivably) continue to do things and still pass tests. My bigger concern is how he looked against Vitor in his last fight. Once you get knocked out, it's easier to get knocked out the next time. I'd rather remember him as the fighter he was not what the fighter they ALL turn into eventually.

[Dog-Slime]

We're on the same page, he is NOT doing trt, he is using trt to camouflage his AAS usage. He has needed it over his career because other than high boxing skill he has been suspect. (Technically) Now throw in Father Time that is catching up to him he needs the drugs more than ever. I have been in really good physical shape with a test level of 300. Some fighters actually do need the drugs to make up for their shortcomings. Marc Coleman, Vitor Belfort, Mark Kerr come to mind. Again though, none of these fighters were using trt level test, they were doing cycles. Two different things IMHO.

Are you serious? He has very good standup not just boxing and his jj is also pretty bad ass he damn near finished P4P high ranker jon jones with an arm bar that he claims he let off of when he heard a tearing sound (and jones admits to it popping several times and being very hurt). He does not need trt to win. Ask Luke Rockhold pretty much the only guy to lose to Vitor and say hey TRT didn't have shit to do with him kicking me in the head...

[Ultra7580]

Vitor should have took a page from st Pierre's book and just stuck to hgh.

[Beethoven]

Are you serious? He has very good standup not just boxing and his jj is also pretty bad ass he damn near finished P4P high ranker jon jones with an arm bar that he claims he let off of when he heard a tearing sound (and jones admits to it popping several times and being very hurt). He does not need trt to win. Ask Luke Rockhold pretty much the only guy to lose to Vitor and say hey TRT didn't have shit to do with him kicking me in the head...

Saying that he is suspect doesn't mean his jj isn't good, he has more lived off his striking, but his AAS use has been a BIG part of his game. Take away that and he's not contending for a championship. Anyone with a legit bjj black belt is good at jj. That isn't just given away, it normally takes between 10 and 15 years, unless you're a total freak like a BJ Penn.

[NEFLRick]

I'd be SHOCKED if he actually let go of JJ's arm (I watched the fight). If he did, that's his own fault.

JJ has long limbs. He will always have issues with armbars because of this. Much easier to armbar people with longer arms than shorter. At that level, if you just leave your arm there a fraction of a second too long, you'll get caught. That's what happened to JJ. He got caught. But he fought through it.

Vitor was awesome when he was younger. Then, he wasn't so awesome. He then started, "TRT," and was awesome again. Yes, testosterone absolutely played a hand in his comeback at this stage in his career.

Also, let's not forget, his last 2 fights have been in Brazil where, let's just say they're a bit more lenient in these matters.

[Dog-Slime]

Your right I'm sure he was not so awesome because he was not taking steroids and had nothing to do with the kidnapping/rape/murder(possible no body was found) of his sister and all the emotional issues that caused...

[Beethoven]

Your right I'm sure he was not so awesome because he was not taking steroids and had nothing to do with the kidnapping/rape/murder(possible no body was found) of his sister and all the emotional issues that caused...

I will give that to you even though he did fight through it. Always did admire him for that. Don't know if I could have done that. To my knowledge she was never found. He lived in south Florida for a while.

[NEFLRick]

Your right I'm sure he was not so awesome because he was not taking steroids and had nothing to do with the kidnapping/rape/murder(possible no body was found) of his sister and all the emotional issues that caused...

I never said that didn't have anything to do with it. But, most of us here understand what testosterone will do for you, many of us have competed in various sports to know how it will affect that as well. Most of us here are older and understand what it means to slow down due to age. For people to say (or imply) that testosterone had nothing to do with his comback then they either have no idea what they're talking about or are just being naive.

The guy lost a step like we ALL do as we age. Started TRT and, all of a sudden, was back in form.

Let's not forget the years he fought in Pride where they wrote in the fighters' contract they do NOT test for drugs. Most of them did them because of this. Then, guys like Vitor come to the UFC--where they DO test--and they all get their butts kicked (with very few exceptions). None of the Pride fighters looked like they had in Pride (again, with very few exceptions). You think that was a coincidence?

[Dog-Slime]

No I am no fool I know they were using. But didn't Rampage come dominate the unstoppable Chuck Liddell straight from pride (I know you said their were exceptions...) Roids don't win fights. TRUST ME. If they did I would just juice harder and have no L's on my record.

[Beethoven]

No I am no fool I know they were using. But didn't Rampage come dominate the unstoppable Chuck Liddell straight from pride (I know you said their were exceptions...) Roids don't win fights. TRUST ME. If they did I would just juice harder and have no L's on my record.

Well let's not forget that Rampage couldn't get past Vanderlei in Pride, Chuck Liddell had his run and it always has to come to an end. He was vulnerable to Rampage just as Rampage was to Silva. Most of the guys from Pride never continued what they were doing in Pride but for Anderson Silva. Makes you wonder if the playing field was not leveled here in the UFC.

[Dog-Slime]

I don't think so but I certainly see why and how someone would think so. Chuck was scared of that fight. He knew it would be his end. Rampage hard already showed him what was up before in Pride. Not many people could get past Wandy in pride tho and Rampage was doing pretty good until a stand up and then he all of sudden got the munchies for knees... But yes guys like CroCop were certainly NEVER close to the same (hmm his legs lost about 20lbs each)

[Beethoven]

Yes, Crocop was responsible for the demise of the axe murderer. I'll never forget that. But it seemed that Rampage and Anderson were about the only ones who had success in the UFC. Although we can make a case that when Dana bought Pride, those guys had been wining there for a long time already. Add a little drug testing and it does make for an interesting conversation.

[Dog-Slime]

But for the record here is how much steroids help you win in mma. You do the math but I count 10 more losses than wins...


Performance Enhancing Drugs In MMA

Three Positive Tests
Josh Barnett
November 2, 2001. Win over Bobby Hoffman (UFC 34). Tested positive for two different anabolic steroids (but I don't know which ones.)

March 22, 2002. Win over Randy Couture (UFC 36). Tested positive for boldenone, fluoxymesterone and nandrolone.

July, 2009. A random test in-between fights with Gilbert Yvel (Affliction) what would've been his fight with Fedor Emelianko. He next fought Siala-Mou Siliga (Dream 13). Tested positive for drostanolone.

Two Positive Tests
Stephan Bonnar
August 26, 2006. Loss to Forrest Griffin (UFC 62). Tested positive for boldenone.

October 13, 2012. Loss to Anderson Silva (UFC 153). Tested positive for drostanolone.

Kimo Leopoldo
June 19, 2004. Loss to Ken Shamrock (UFC 48). Tested positive for stanozolol.

July, 2006. A random test in-between his fights with Ikuhisa Minowa (PRIDE Bushido 8) and Dave Legeno (Cage Rage 18). Tested positive for stanozolol again.

Antonio Silva
July 26, 2008. Win over Justin Eilers (Elite XC). Tested positive for Boldenone.

December 7, 2013. Draw against Mark Hunt (UFC Fight Night 33). Tested positive for an elevated T/E ratio.

One Positive Test
Phil Baroni
June 22, 2007. Loss to Frank Shamrock (Strikeforce). Tested positive for boldenone and stanozolol.

Vitor Belfort
October 21, 2006. Loss to Dan Henderson (PRIDE 32). Tested positive for 4-Hydroxytestosterone.

Joey Beltran
December 15, 2012. Win over Igor Pokrajac (UFC on FX 6). Tested positive for nandrolone.

Brian Bowles
May 25, 2013. Loss to George Roop (UFC 160). Tested positive for an elevated testosterone to epitestosterone (T/E) ratio (20 times that of a normal man).

Rafael Cavalcante
May 19, 2012. Win over Mike Kyle (Strikeforce). Tested positive for stanozolol.

Kit Cope
January 20, 2007. Loss to Rob McCullough (WEC 25). Tested positive for boldenone.

Alexander Crispim
November 16, 2007. Win over Clint Coronel (Strikeforce). Tested positive for desoxymethyltestosterone.

Edwin Dewees
July 19, 2008. Loss to Antonio Rogerio Nogueira (Affliction.) Tested positive for nandrolone.

Robert Drysdale
Fall, 2013. Lost a random drug test before a scheduled fight with Cody Donovan at UFC 167. Tested positive for an elevated T/E ratio (19.4 times that of a normal human man).

Hermes Franca
July 7, 2007. Loss to Sean Sherk (UFC 73). Tested positive for drostanolone.

Royce Gracie
June 2, 2007. Win over Kazushi Sakuraba (K-1 Dynamite!! USA). Tested positive for nandrolone.

Dennis Hallman
November 16, 2007. Win over Jeremiah Metcalf (Strikeforce). Tested positive for drostanolone and nandrolone.

James Irvin:
December 2nd, 2010. Loss to Jorge Oliveira (Tachi Palace Fights 7). Tested positive for epitrenbolone. (in an earlier fight he also tested positive for painkillers, listed below).

Lavar Johnson
February 23, 2013. Loss to Brendan Schaub (UFC 157). Flagged for elevated levels of testosterone. An additional carbon isotope ratio test "confirmed the testosterone was consistent with the administration of a steroid," according to CSAC Executive Officer Andy Foster.

Jörgen Kruth:
May 20, 2007. Win over Freddy Kemayo (This was a kickboxing fight. He did not make his MMA debut until April, 2009.) Tested positive for testosteron, metandienon, trenbolon and metenolon.

Muhammed Lawal:
January 7, 2012. Win over Lorenz Larkin (Strikeforce). Tested positive for drostanolone.

Chris Leben
October 18, 2008. Loss to Michael Bisping (UFC 89). Tested positive for stanozolol.

Bill Mahood
September 29, 2007. Loss to Bobby Southworth (Strikeforce). Tested positive for drostanolone.

Nate Marquardt
August 6, 2005. Win over Ivan Salaverry (Ultimate Fight Night). Tested positive for nandrolone.

Johnnie Morton
June 2, 2007. Loss to Bernard Ackah (K-1 Dynamite!! USA). Tested positive for epitestosterone.

Pawel Nastula
October 21, 2006. Loss to Josh Barnett (PRIDE 32). Tested positive for nandrolone, phenylpropanolamine, pseudoephedrine, and ephedrine.

Alexandre Franca Nogueira
June 1, 2008. Loss to Jose Aldo (WEC 34.) Tested positive for boldenone.

Jorge Ortiz
June 8, 2007. Loss to Jesse Taylor (Total Combat 21). Tested positive for nandrolone.

Alistair Overeem:
April, 2012. A random drug test before what would've been a fight with Junior Dos Santos and after his fight with Brock Lesnar. Tested positive for elevated testosterone-to-epitestosterone ratio (10 times that of a normal man).

Rousimar Palhares
December 15, 2012. Loss to Hector Lombard (UFC on FX 6). Tested positive for elevated testosterone-to-epitestosterone ratio (9 times that of a normal man).

Cole Province
August 9, 2009. Win over Fredson Paixao (WEC 42). Tested positive for methasterone.

Vicicius Kappke de Queiroz
October 16, 2010. Loss to Rob Broughton (UFC 120). Tested positive for stanozolol.

Francisco Rivera
July 21, 2012. Win over Roland Delorme (UFC 149). Tested positive for an as of yet undisclosed, over-the-counter stimulant.

Nick Rossborough:
September 23, 2011. Loss to Lorenz Larkin (Strikeforce). Tested positive for an elevated testosterone-to-epitestosterone ratio (I haven't been able to find what the ratio was though).

Ben Rothwell:
August 31, 2013. Win over Brandon Vera (UFC 164). Tested positive for an elevated testosterone-to-epitestosterone ratio (I don't know what the ratio was.)

Ken Shamrock
February 13, 2009. Win over Ross Clifton (Wargods/Ken Shamrock Productions). Tested positive for 19-norandrosterone, 19-noretiocholanolone, and stanozolol.

Sean Sherk
July 7, 2007. Win over Hermes Franca (UFC 73). Tested positive for nandrolone.

Kirill Sidelnikov
January 24, 2009. Loss to Paul Buentello (Affliction). Tested positive for Stanozolol.

Adam Smith
September 29, 2007. Loss to Dewey Cooper (Strikeforce). Tested positive for nandrolone and stanozolol (also cocaine and marijuana.)

Chael Sonnen
August 7, 2010. Loss to Anderson Silva (UFC 117). Tested positive for elevated testosterone-to-epitestosterone ratio (16.9 times that of a normal man).

Tim Sylvia
September 26, 2003. Win over Gan McGee (UFC 44). Tested positive for stanozolol.

Thiago Tavares
January 19, 2013. Loss to Khabib Nurmagomedov (UFC on FX 7). Tested positive for drostanolone.

Anthony Torres
September 8, 2007. Loss to Jess Liaudin (UFC 75). Tested positive for boldenone.

Ruben Villareal
November 7, 2007. Loss to Jimmy Ambriz (WCO). Tested positive for 4-hydroxytestosterone.

Jason Winthers
November 3, 2007. Loss to Richard Blake (Rebel Fights). Tested positive for stanozolol and trenbolone (also methadone and morphine.)

[NEFLRick]

That list means nothing. How many people didn't get caught? Again, you miss the point. No, drugs won't make you a better fighter. However, drugs will allow you to recover faster, train harder, get stronger and other things. So it does give you an advantage. If you're already a good fighter, they can help you take it to the next level.

Basically, if they didn't help, no athletes would do them...ever. Why risk getting caught if there is no benefit.

The whole argument about drugs not helping athletes is just ridiculous (at best).

Chuck Liddell was at the tail end of his career when Rampage came over. Look at the rest of the people from Pride and how they've fared over the years. Vitor was just about out of the UFC until he discovered drugs (tested positive) and testosterone. Hendo has done alright but he's not the same fighter he was in Pride at all. Yes, he's had his moments but they are fewer and farther between. Wanderlei Silva is half the fighter he was in Pride. Anderson Silva has been even better (by far the exception) than he ever was in Pride. We could keep going. Yes, you'll find a handful of fighters who have done alright since coming over but the vast majority of them have not. It is no coincidence.

[Dog-Slime]

Juice causes pumps. Blood pumps are horrible in fighting. Also, most gear hinders your cardio. It may be good for athletes but it is not the god send for mma fighters that people think it is. In fact IME a legit trt dose is more helpful than the ABUSIVE doses everyone is worrying that these guys on trt are taking.

[Beethoven]

I think PED's are prevelant in most all sports because of the money involved. Biking, boxing, MMA, etc. I think the playing field is being leveled because most athletes are using them now. Again, all these guys were NOT doing trt. Just think about this, Lance NEVER tested positive, he got turned in by a team mate that DID.

[bigdippin]

Even Bonds head has shrunk

[NEFLRick]

Juice causes pumps. Blood pumps are horrible in fighting. Also, most gear hinders your cardio. It may be good for athletes but it is not the god send for mma fighters that people think it is. In fact IME a legit trt dose is more helpful than the ABUSIVE doses everyone is worrying that these guys on trt are taking.

Sorry but we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. Again, if they were no good for fighters--or athletes in general--this wouldn't even be a discussion. The stats don't lie.

[NEFLRick]

I think PED's are prevelant in most all sports because of the money involved. Biking, boxing, MMA, etc. I think the playing field is being leveled because most athletes are using them now. Again, all these guys were NOT doing trt. Just think about this, Lance NEVER tested positive, he got turned in by a team mate that DID.

Ditto for Arod. He got turned in by someone who was pissed at the guy who owned the company--as did a bunch of other MLB players.

With the amount of money there is in baseball, if it didn't help, they wouldn't be doing it.

[Beethoven]

Ditto for Arod. He got turned in by someone who was pissed at the guy who owned the company--as did a bunch of other MLB players.

With the amount of money there is in baseball, if it didn't help, they wouldn't be doing it.

Yep, why have drug tests when anyone can drop the dime on you to save themselves. Also what dog-slime said is true about the pumps. However there are many other PED's that are more suited for that. Remember all those bikers in the Tour de France and the like aren't doing Deca. But hey if there was a PED that could get me in the UFC boy I'd do it. Lol