D-bol & Test E for 2nd cycle??

[Bama Boy]

I'm a total newbie at this. A bit older than most (at least I think), but I just finished my first cycle of Test E. I'm currently on my first week of PCT. (Clomid, Tamox and HCG ). I got some good gains but as I've read so many times, if you don't get the PCT right you will lose some of those gains. Well I think I started the PCT a week too late. Anyways, I 'm interested in input for my 2nd cycle. I'm considering D-bol along with Test E for an 8 week cycle. Pros? Cons? Advice is greatly appreciated. At 43 yrs old, I don't really want to run gear for 2 months, bust ass in the gym only to lose the gains afterwards.
Thanks for your input.

[Cuz]

Why not run test only again with the correct pct? Dbol is a waste of time when it comes to keeping gains

[Back In Black]

^^^this

Also, HCG has no place in pct, it should have been run throughout cycle. Gains are lost predominantly through incorrect diet.

You understand you shouldn't start another cycle until you have been off the amount of time you were on plus your pct time. And 8 weeks only of test e?

[ScotchGuard02]

Don't worry about losing gains during PCT. It will happen. Just watch your diet and you'll keep more of it.

[Bama Boy]

Being that I'm new, could you please explain how to add HCG to your cycle. Is it done daily? If so what amount.

[jimmyinkedup]

You should wait - you should not just cycle again right away as was pointed out.
hcg-250ius-2/week ie: mon thurs
Diet is key to gain retention man. You have to not only increase your cals appropriately on cycle but maintain the proper increase through and post pct to try to maintain as much of that hard earned mass as you can.
How are you proposing to run the dbol?

[Bama Boy]

Honestly, I'm not quite sure yet. Still doing a bit of research. A friend recommended D-bol pills (25mg) but stated that it is pretty harsh on the liver. I'm only interested in D-bol for the bulking effect. I lost a great deal of muscle mass due to Graves Disease. I've not got that under control (with medication) and looking to put back on some mass.

[Cuz]

Bulking effect is your food buddy. Your nutrition. How you eat. What you eat. When you eat...one more time forget the dbol its all water weight useless gains. Test will give you much better gains while not as rapid but more quality and stable. You can keep most of it if you are a new user with proper diet. Listen to these fellows they know what they are talking about

[Bama Boy]

Thanks Cuz, I've learned a ton so far. D-bol is off of the radar for now. I'm 43, 5'11', 205 lb. 15% body fat. What amount of test should I be looking at running next cycle and for how long? I've also been advised to add HCG to the next cycle, twice a week. I'm assuming this will keep my own stuff from complexly shutting down?

[Fetch]

I suppose I'll be the dissenter here. I love DBol at the start of a cycle. It boosts your strength quite a bit while you wait for your other compounds to kick in. If nothing else, if gives you quite a psychological boost which translates to harder work the first several weeks. It makes me want to eat better and train harder.

[Fetch]

^^^this

Also, HCG has no place in pct, it should have been run throughout cycle.

I've seen HCG ran the last few weeks of a cycle through the PCT to apparent good effect. It mimics leydig cells in the testes, which are precursors to testosterone production. This should help restart natural production. Now, I can imagine there is more benefit to just running it throughout cycle, but I wouldn't say it is worthless for PCT. Of course, it's been awhile since I've looked into it. Did some new research come out recently or something? I remember this very point being debated on these boards a couple of years ago.

[Back In Black]

I've seen HCG ran the last few weeks of a cycle through the PCT to apparent good effect. It mimics leydig cells in the testes, which are precursors to testosterone production. This should help restart natural production. Now, I can imagine there is more benefit to just running it throughout cycle, but I wouldn't say it is worthless for PCT. Of course, it's been awhile since I've looked into it. Did some new research come out recently or something? I remember this very point being debated on these boards a couple of years ago.

Here you go buddy

http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...njections.html

[Cuz]

How much test did you use the first cycle

[Bama Boy]

How much test did you use the first cycle

I ran 350 for the first 6 weeks then 750 for the last 6 weeks.

[Fetch]

Here you go buddy

http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...njections.html

That is interesting - primarily the assertion that HCG is suppressive. I suppose it makes sense, considering LH is a hormone, negative feedback is likely to kick in. I wish there were more studies done on this topic. I'm actually applying to phd programs for next fall, focusing on neuroscience. I hope to write my thesis on hormone production - this might be a good thing to zero in on.

[X2006ibmgto]

I will never be a fan of taking two compounds that covert to estrogen. Next time run test at 500mg straight through. Superdrol is my kick start of choice. But it's super liver toxic. More then dbol. But if u take nac at 1800mg, coq-10 at 200mg, and tudca 200mg I've found it helps a lot. But it will also depend on your diet and water intake. Fyi run hcg from day 1, it will help tremendously. Stop 3-5 days before pct.

[Bama Boy]

Bulking effect is your food buddy. Your nutrition. How you eat. What you eat. When you eat...one more time forget the dbol its all water weight useless gains. Test will give you much better gains while not as rapid but more quality and stable. You can keep most of it if you are a new user with proper diet. Listen to these fellows they know what they are talking about

I've read through the diet section for a while. Man, people are all over the board. How and where does someone start a "bulking" diet. I'm at about 2800-3000 calories a day now. About 250-300 grams of protein. I'm no dietician but what actually works?

[X2006ibmgto]

Everyone is different. Find what works for u. Bulking is easy compared to cutting imo. Play around with things. Im an endomorphone (sp haha) my body hates sugar n carbs. Protein n healthy fats all day. I stay below 150 carbs. Read all the stickies and see how all the diets are. Post your meal plan in the diet section and someone will help you.

[Buster Brown]

At 43 it is tough to keep gains PERIOD! I am 44 and had the same prob hitting my 40's keeping gains despite proper diet, pct, training hard. It would probably be a good idea to get your tes levels checked. Low tes levels will never keep gains. I keep my gains a lot better now that I am on trt. Genetics play such a huge role in what you keep as well and that can't be changed no matter what.

[Cuz]

I've read through the diet section for a while. Man, people are all over the board. How and where does someone start a "bulking" diet. I'm at about 2800-3000 calories a day now. About 250-300 grams of protein. I'm no dietician but what actually works?

Start with your TDEE. Add 500 cals above that. Then depending you can add 1000 over tdee. Thats how you gain. I like to start off with a 40/40/20 macro split then you can dial it in as you get more advanced and learn your body

[Bama Boy]

Start with your TDEE. Add 500 cals above that. Then depending you can add 1000 over tdee. Thats how you gain. I like to start off with a 40/40/20 macro split then you can dial it in as you get more advanced and learn your body

Cuz, you're awesome, but I have no idea what the hell you just said. I'm really new, what is TDEE? What is a macro split?

[derekkpapa1]

Cuz, you're awesome, but I have no idea what the hell you just said. I'm really new, what is TDEE? What is a macro split?

U Really need to head over to nutrition section and read every sticky there.
Sorry man that's basic stuff and you should of not cycled in the first place.
Get the diet dailed in and the results could more amazing than steroids.

[Bama Boy]

U Really need to head over to nutrition section and read every sticky there.
Sorry man that's basic stuff and you should of not cycled in the first place.
Get the diet dailed in and the results could more amazing than steroids.

Thanks for the input. I'm in study mode for a while. Didn't really know what I was doing. Looking forward to my continuing education on here.

[derekkpapa1]

Thanks for the input. I'm in study mode for a while. Didn't really know what I was doing. Looking forward to my continuing education on here.

Great man lots of great info here and don't be afraid to ask questions or contribute now that your part of forum.

[Bama Boy]

Great man lots of great info here and don't be afraid to ask questions or contribute now that your part of forum.

Thanks again. I've been on the diet and nutrition all day yesterday. I'm going to get the diet dialed in, get levels checked and do a bunch of question asking before my next cycle. Looks like I can run test and crunch down on the diet and see some amazing results. I just ran test and worked my ass of in the gym, saw some results but not what I was expecting. I didn't really add anything or change my diet in any way during the cycle.