Couple of Questions

[343geisa]

Hey, I am going to start a first cycle hopefully by new year. Until then theres a couple of kinks i'd like to work out. As i understand it doing this injecting stuff is pretty serious on the body. And so i wanna make absolutely certain as to how or what could go wrong and be prepared for any outcome. For better or worse, I've been working out the last couple of say 5 years. Made some gains, got a lot leaner, and so on. What i am trying to say is that i think I've reached my maximum natural potential as far as gains go. And so it has come to that point where i am absolutely certain what i wanna do.
I shall begin by explaining a couple of things about myself. I am a 36 yo male, 175cm tall, weighing in at about 80 kilograms, with say 20% bf. I am really trying to work out a schedule for myself as far as doses and pharmaceuticals, whats needed for a cycle and stuff. This i will come back to later probably.

As of right now i am having a couple of question regarding side effects of the drug.

From what i read in the FAQ your natural levels of testosterone go down forever after completing a cycle. I wanna know how much are we talking here?
Pre/Post examples would be nice.

I am also a bit worried about how the sperm count is reduced and virility. I don't have kids yet but i am planning to someday soon with my gf. Whats the take on this. Seldom, often or certain?
I am thinking obviously its not certain, else ppl wouldnt use this but still some numbers would be nice.

I guess thats all for now. Appreciate any help you can give.

[Roger11]

Hey, I am going to start a first cycle hopefully by new year. Until then theres a couple of kinks i'd like to work out. As i understand it doing this injecting stuff is pretty serious on the body. And so i wanna make absolutely certain as to how or what could go wrong and be prepared for any outcome. For better or worse, I've been working out the last couple of say 5 years. Made some gains, got a lot leaner, and so on. What i am trying to say is that i think I've reached my maximum natural potential as far as gains go. And so it has come to that point where i am absolutely certain what i wanna do.
I shall begin by explaining a couple of things about myself. I am a 36 yo male, 175cm tall, weighing in at about 80 kilograms, with say 20% bf. I am really trying to work out a schedule for myself as far as doses and pharmaceuticals, whats needed for a cycle and stuff. This i will come back to later probably.

As of right now i am having a couple of question regarding side effects of the drug.

From what i read in the FAQ your natural levels of testosterone go down forever after completing a cycle. I wanna know how much are we talking here?
Pre/Post examples would be nice.

I am also a bit worried about how the sperm count is reduced and virility. I don't have kids yet but i am planning to someday soon with my gf. Whats the take on this. Seldom, often or certain?
I am thinking obviously its not certain, else ppl wouldnt use this but still some numbers would be nice.

I guess thats all for now. Appreciate any help you can give.

You sure you even workout mate? Those stats are horrible. Hows your diet? Post it up. Im sorry to say you are no where near ready.

You have fat genes? You have nowhere near reached genetic potential.

[343geisa]

Yeah dude, sure i work out.

Listen, seems i forgot to mention, tho i worked out dilligently for these 5 years, i was in a motorbike accident which left me out the game for a three fourths a year. Used to weigh 85k w 15% fats, all naturally. Not to brag or anything but i was like thinking never ever would i touch this stuff.

Well, seems fate is not without its sense of irony. What I later discovered is that age finally did catch up with me and so i could kiss my immaculate body of years past goodbye. Really panicking, i started to look for a way out and so landed on getting some help from hormone treatment. Now 2 years in, I've been picking up on training again but the swings just aren't as before, ya know. Eating a lot of healthy food i am. It does not seem i have my current eating schedule at hand, I could come back with the exact meal plan if its terribly important. Diet consists mainly on protein tho, lots of it. Carbs, vegetables, the lot. I eat until i can eat no more. I am not worried about fat percentage, all i wanna gain is some more muscle. I am naturally not in the fat category.

[Roger11]

No worries mate, sorry didnt mean to come off as an arse or anything but when i see people with stats of similar 80kg at 20% i shake my head, if you were 110kg at 20% then ok fair enough. Sorry to hear about your accident mate.

I suggest you start counting calories and macros, trust me for a long time i didnt count macros or calories, then once i started to i looked the best i ever did back at the start of last year, i went from 102kg at a high bodyfat down to 88kg at 13% maybe even lower, counting all my calories and macros and boy did it make a difference. So i suggest you start.

Get your nutrition sorted, that is a problem there itself. Start counting as i said. Will make a big difference.

[343geisa]

Don't worry about it. We all make mistakes. Sure i trust you man, and I *am* counting calories i jes don't have the schedule at hand right now cause its on a different computer. I'll post it up as soon as i get the chance.

[Haydenz]

Sorry to hear about the accident bud, that sucks, But i do agree with the statement above, 20% is a tad bit to high for AAS itll be a strain on your body, PLUS after you drop to say 12% or so when you finally jump on you will look like a beast itll be much more worth it.

In regards to your test, your natural test will drop because you will be replacing it with what you inject into yourself so your bodies natural reaction is to stop producing your own making having kids a little tougher.

hope this helps.

[343geisa]

Aye, I've been working hard to get slimmer. Although now 20%, i am looking at going down to 10-15% come winter season and getting ready for that first inject.

Thanks for that Haydenz! tho actual numbers would be fantastic. Next week I am going for the bloodworks and so i am eager to see my natural test levels. Would be fun to have somethen to compare to, ya know.

[Haydenz]

Actual numbers is up to you my friend only blood work will tell , everyone is different, you have a good attitude and I feel your doing everything right, make sure you get everything ticked off before you inject and all your questions answered,

We are here to help and so are the stickies in the forum above,

[Times Roman]

Hey, I am going to start a first cycle hopefully by new year. Until then theres a couple of kinks i'd like to work out. As i understand it doing this injecting stuff is pretty serious on the body. And so i wanna make absolutely certain as to how or what could go wrong and be prepared for any outcome. For better or worse, I've been working out the last couple of say 5 years. Made some gains, got a lot leaner, and so on. What i am trying to say is that i think I've reached my maximum natural potential as far as gains go. And so it has come to that point where i am absolutely certain what i wanna do.
I shall begin by explaining a couple of things about myself. I am a 36 yo male, 175cm tall, weighing in at about 80 kilograms, with say 20% bf. I am really trying to work out a schedule for myself as far as doses and pharmaceuticals, whats needed for a cycle and stuff. This i will come back to later probably.

As of right now i am having a couple of question regarding side effects of the drug.

From what i read in the FAQ your natural levels of testosterone go down forever after completing a cycle. I wanna know how much are we talking here?
Pre/Post examples would be nice.

I am also a bit worried about how the sperm count is reduced and virility. I don't have kids yet but i am planning to someday soon with my gf. Whats the take on this. Seldom, often or certain?
I am thinking obviously its not certain, else ppl wouldnt use this but still some numbers would be nice.

I guess thats all for now. Appreciate any help you can give.

Good questions mate

First, I just want to point out you are not at your "genetic potential" if you are at 20% body fat. You may have some solid musculature, but high bf% for our group. Taking AAS with your high bf% increases risk of sides due to test aromatizing into estradiol. True, you can add chemical onto chemicals to control these sides, but if you respect your body, you will do it the right way by first lowering bf% to under 15%. and as you already pointed out, maintaining fertility is a concern, so why go down chemical alley if there are other, healthier options still unexplored?

So let's talk nutrition for a bit, shall we?

Most gym folk primarily focus on gym activities, and ignore, for the most part, kitchen activities. But most here will agree that discipline in the kitchen is equally important, if you want to think of yourself as a body builder.

First of all, you need, if you don't already have one, and since you didn't even hint about your nutritional plan in your opening piece, will assume you are like most and don't pay it much thought. You need a plan, mate.

I've crunched some numbers for you. So at a high level, your TDEE is around 2700 cals/day. Additionally, your optimal protein intake is (not to exceed) about 210 grams per day. And this is where the discipline comes in. For you to become lean enough to hit your BF% target, you need to consistently be eating below your TDEE. So I'm going to suggest, as an initial target, around 2100 cals/day. This means that if you consume 210 grams of protein, then that is 840 cals. Subtract that from 2100 and you still need to consume 1260 cals/day. A rough rule would be twice as many cals from carbs as from fat, so that, in general numbers comes to 800/400 or 200 grams of carbs and 55 grams of fat. Since you will be calorically deficient, if you feel fatigued in the gym, then increase carbs and off set that with a reduction in fat. Continue until energy levels in the gym return.

So if one pound = between 3 and 3.5k/cals, then cutting 500 cals/day would mean losing a bout a pound a week. in six months, that comes to about 20 pounds. If 80% of those 20 pounds is BF, then that means after six months, you will go from 20% to 11% body fat.

But I'm not done. Let's sanity test this "math problem". It is easy to lose BF at 20%, and increasingly more difficult the lower your BF% becomes. So that means, during this time, you WILL need to be performing cardio. 45 minutes a day, every other day, between 50% and 80% of your max heart rate. This will be the additional catalyst you will need to realize this goal.

After six months, you WILL look much different. Very lean and muscular, and yes, smaller. But no worries. You are probably now ready to begin to think about AAS. Once you get to this point, 11% @156 lbs, you will need to shift gears. If there was ever a time you are ready for AAS, it will be now. Increase your caloric intake to TDEE + 500 Cals. and drop the cardio. You will slowly bulk up. in round numbers, let's just suppose that 3/4 of what you gain will be lean. If you can gain 20lbs on your first cycle, this means you add 5lbs of fat and 15lbs of muscle. You are now back to your original weight of the 176 lbs, but are still under 13% body fat.

This is a significant amount of work, but again, if you want to think of yourself as a body builder, well, no one promised you a rose garden.

Good luck!

---Roman

[Times Roman]

one last tip

as you begin to lose weight, you must regularly reduce your caloric intake. as you lose weight, your TDEE drops as well. PM me if you want a copy of the calculator I use to crunch these numbers.

[343geisa]

As of last month, my mean caloric intake was at approx. 2500 a day. I have been steadily losing fat percentage since then. I have been complementing my diet with whey protein shakes. Basically feeling pretty confident about my diet. Ultimately the goal is about 11%bf before even thinking bout AAS use.