Mixed Info on HCG driving me crazy.

[dxb5ashaba]

( assuming test only cycle).


Ive read (on here) that HCG is best run for the entire duration of the cycle, stopping it the same time as your last test pin. ( assuming test only cycle).

THEN...on another post (also on here, and on youtube ) people are saying that the above method is dangerous...and that the way to go...is the last 4 weeks of the cycle ( two weeks while pinning, and two weeks while the test is clearing out).

THEN there is the confusion with the dosages. Some people are saying 250 IU E3D...some people 500 E3D....some people saying one shot of 1000 a week.

Get it together guys...which way is the best/safest/optimal way!.

[Mr.BB]

You are the one who needs to get it together.

If you actually made an effort to understand what is HCG, and what are its physiological effects, you would easily reach a good conclusion.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, still it doesnt change facts.

[dxb5ashaba]

that being said...the best way is ?

[Mr.BB]

http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...njections.html

[Mr.BB]

A lot more read here:

http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...-database.html

[dxb5ashaba]

Yeah ive read those. And in the post it says, and i quote " high doses is a surefire way to desensitize Leydig Cells". I know running a moderate dose will not cause problems. But what if running a moderate dose for a long period of time ( i.e 12 weeks ) would have the same effect as running a high dose of HCG for a short period.

I think thats why the other school of thought recommends running it only the last 4 weeks of the cycle. And therein lies my question -.-.

[dxb5ashaba]

Futhermore..according the article that you linked...HCG is supressive. So wouldnt running it for 12 weeks along side test..add to the supression i would already be experiencing from the test ?

Also the reason why people use HCG to begin with is to make sure that the leydig cells dont shut down or become desensitized due to prolonged supression from test.....but...how long does it take for them to shut down....if it takes 20 weeks....then running a 12 week cycle wouldnt shut them down...and thus i wouldnt need to use HCG for that long (12 weeks.)

[InternalFire]

you write/talk so much yet think and research so little, making an elephant out of a fly.

HCG has suppression on LH/FSH pathways, so does TEST(hence using both at the same time makes no difference to suppression already ongoing from TEST, but HCG main purpose here is to prevent complete testicular atrophy/shutdpwn).
You want HCG out of your body before PCT starts because the purpose of PCT is to restart the HPTA (and LH/FSH) pathways so your body starts working your testicles naturally again, while if you used HCG post cycle, or during PCT, you would be using water&fire technique at the same time, in other words, waste of time.

Also talking about high dosages is like eating an elephant, if you eat it at once - thats a high dosage, if you eat it by a few pound over a span of few months, its still a full elephant but it will not be a big dose of it, same applies with HCG and damage it can cause, too much too quick and youre in trouble, so providing with adequate frequent dosage of HCG youre ok, megadosing, shooting yourself in a foot. Simple logic.

Read those two links posted by Mr.BB and let that sink in, dont go busting WWW balls for contradictory infos, because thats what you will find.

[dxb5ashaba]

How is what you said different than what i said ?

I understand Test and HCG both cause suppression on the LH/FSH pathway. All im asking is...wouldnt using it along side test cause more supression. Wouldnt it be better to used last 4 weeks of the cycle ? ( NOT PCT ...2 weeks while pinning and 2 weeks while waiting for test to clear out).

That way it serves its purpose..(stimulating the leydig cells) but not for so long that it supresses you.

Im not trying to bust anyone's ball. It is beyond me why you are being an asshole about this. Im new to this and ive never done a cycle. so im trying to understand everything.

Are you upset that im not regurgitating the same bullshit that everyone says ? You dont want me to question anything or try to make sense of anything lol ?

[gymffiti]

you write/talk so much yet think and research so little, making an elephant out of a fly.

HCG has suppression on LH/FSH pathways, so does TEST(hence using both at the same time makes no difference to suppression already ongoing from TEST, but HCG main purpose here is to prevent complete testicular atrophy/shutdpwn).
You want HCG out of your body before PCT starts because the purpose of PCT is to restart the HPTA (and LH/FSH) pathways so your body starts working your testicles naturally again, while if you used HCG post cycle, or during PCT, you would be using water&fire technique at the same time, in other words, waste of time.

Also talking about high dosages is like eating an elephant, if you eat it at once - thats a high dosage, if you eat it by a few pound over a span of few months, its still a full elephant but it will not be a big dose of it, same applies with HCG and damage it can cause, too much too quick and youre in trouble, so providing with adequate frequent dosage of HCG youre ok, megadosing, shooting yourself in a foot. Simple logic.

Read those two links posted by Mr.BB and let that sink in, dont go busting WWW balls for contradictory infos, because thats what you will find.

I personally know very little about this, but what you're saying (with good detail) seems to make a lot of sense

So I'm going to guess you're right

[charger69]

Futhermore..according the article that you linked...HCG is supressive. So wouldnt running it for 12 weeks along side test..add to the supression i would already be experiencing from the test ? Also the reason why people use HCG to begin with is to make sure that the leydig cells dont shut down or become desensitized due to prolonged supression from test.....but...how long does it take for them to shut down....if it takes 20 weeks....then running a 12 week cycle wouldnt shut them down...and thus i wouldnt need to use HCG for that long (12 weeks.)

To add to insanes explanation, once your body sees that your hormone levels are changing due to cycling, it shuts down natural production because you already have enough. In other words once you start cycling, you shut things down.
Also, you are not adding to the suppression. HCG by itself is suppressive, what the HCG is doing is mimicing the LH to keep the fellas working. In layman's terms, it really keeps things working by tricking your body. I am trying to explain this in simple terms and I hope that you follow me and that I didn't further confuse you.
The articles provided go into the fine details of what is going on. Hopefully my explanation gives you the 2000 foot overview so that you can understand the details better.
Anywhere you go, you need to be careful of the information. Also, there is not only one answer many times. Use sound reasoning and then decide on which one is the right answer for you.

[InternalFire]

How is what you said different than what i said ?

you're all over the place with your mashed up theories and I am on point, thats the only difference.

just read and study the shit out of these two links and you will be golden. Dont make things needlessly overcomplicated, its ridiculously simple, take your time, read it all multiple times and you will be golden when you realize what does what.

http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...njections.html

http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...-database.html

dont go reinventing the bicycle, just roll with it, its already there

[dxb5ashaba]

Last post i promise. I dont want to drag this any longer.

This is the video of the guy saying to run HCG the last 4 weeks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0o4Xf3VMCM

Go to minute 6:35.

So I should forget this guy and follow Austinite's method.


Thank you all for taking the time reply and thanks for the help.

[The Deadlifting Dog]

Last post i promise. I dont want to drag this any longer. This is the video of the guy saying to run HCG the last 4 weeks. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0o4Xf3VMCM Go to minute 6:35. So I should forget this guy and follow Austinite's method. Thank you all for taking the time reply and thanks for the help.

Please understand he runs a website selling SARMS...
Everything he does is biased so he can make more money...
Plus look at him...
Does he even lift?

[The Deadlifting Dog]

Last post i promise. I dont want to drag this any longer. This is the video of the guy saying to run HCG the last 4 weeks. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0o4Xf3VMCM Go to minute 6:35. So I should forget this guy and follow Austinite's method. Thank you all for taking the time reply and thanks for the help.

Also...
He is saying not during PCT...
He is saying 4-6 weeks of 1000ius a week.

I would recommend to run hcg during your cycle and stopping about a week before pct.
I would recommend running 500ius a week.

[InternalFire]

You have found active and resource-info rich - NO-B.SHIT forum here, so in other words - yes, discard most of what you find on the internet and especially on youtube.
Not saying all info is bad but there is no linear concept that would help one learn thing from ground up. Start and learn here and when you get the idea and master a great deal of know-how, f you follow common sense and good ligic, soon you will begin to differentiate how much random BS every random place online spits out just to generate web-traffic or please someone who is never happy with the answers so naive just because some people are like that, especially new and uninformed.

So if you hang around here and really seriously read and study stickies here and think using common sense and logic you will be in good hands of your own.

(I did not and will not watch what others on youtube suggest)

[dxb5ashaba]

Alright. Thank you very much for your time and info!

[Juced_porkchop]

( assuming test only cycle).


Ive read (on here) that HCG is best run for the entire duration of the cycle, stopping it the same time as your last test pin. ( assuming test only cycle).

THEN...on another post (also on here, and on youtube ) people are saying that the above method is dangerous...and that the way to go...is the last 4 weeks of the cycle ( two weeks while pinning, and two weeks while the test is clearing out).

THEN there is the confusion with the dosages. Some people are saying 250 IU E3D...some people 500 E3D....some people saying one shot of 1000 a week.

Get it together guys...which way is the best/safest/optimal way!.

its like there is more than one way to paint a fence. .. for me i rec last5 or so week leadingup to but NOT INTO pct at 500iu 2x a week.
if used whole cycle drop to maybe 250iu 2x a week.
there is no conflicting info, just differing opinions based on similar facts, pick one and go with it.

[Juced_porkchop]

Please understand he runs a website selling SARMS...
Everything he does is biased so he can make more money...
Plus look at him...
Does he even lift?

agreed 100%

[DocToxin8]

Good info in this thread.
To give an example of how to use hCG, set up by my endocrinologist:
(Which is pretty much the same as what other people have allready stated in this thread)

A vial of 5000u hCG is divided into 3 syringes with 250u each (500u is also possible) and the leftover hCG is discarded. Then 250u is injected SubQ 3 times a week. This amount will keep your testicles going, and had been tried by a lot of his patients with success.
When quitting the hCG the main goal is that your testicular size is back to normal. Now the question is whether your pituitary will release enough LH to keep test levels normal.
To help LH release, agents like clomid can be used.
My endo also used to include an AI like arimidex in this stack, but told me that his experience was that adex usually didn't contribute that much to reset the pituitary after AAS use. There will ofcourse be differing opinions about this.

HCG can be used in many different ways.
What i outlined is one possible way that my endo set up, and it would translate to using a low dose of hCG during the entire cycle to keep the testicles at normal size.
Remember that after being shut down there are 2 things that need to function as quickly as possible:
1) testicular size should be normal
(They can atrophy/shrink during cycle of they don't receive LH stimulus.)
2) LH (and FSH) needs to be released from the pituitary in high enough levels to stimulate the testes to produce enough testosterone to keep it within normal range.

HCG will only help you with point 1.

[Marsoc]

I don't understand why everyone has to have some smart ass snobby comments towards this dudes valid question. It's a simple question and regardless of all the book smarts someone can gain and retain its still most important to have that experienced human element which can give an average suggestion based on whatever his conditions are. Wouldn't that be easier then telling him he's talking to much and here...read this even though he already did.
I mean the answer may be in the, stickies but the guys got a question. That's it. Just sayin. I like what was said above though about not to re invent the cycle and all the info is here just study it. Good point.

[InternalFire]

I don't understand why everyone has to have some smart ass snobby comments towards this dudes valid question. It's a simple question and regardless of all the book smarts someone can gain and retain its still most important to have that experienced human element which can give an average suggestion based on whatever his conditions are. Wouldn't that be easier then telling him he's talking to much and here...read this even though he already did. I mean the answer may be in the, stickies but the guys got a question. That's it. Just sayin. I like what was said above though about not to re invent the cycle and all the info is here just study it. Good point.

Are you a post-whore?
Whats the goal/purpose behind your post?

[AR's King Silabolin]

Problem is. There is a guy. Dr Scully. Who has red and written more books than all of us together on the subject.
Has a deep understanding on how the body works. Knew more about the HPTA than Austinite, marcus and all their families together when he was 23 years. Has helped thousands of low testo guys with ruined hpta due to aasuse.
Well, that guy says for sure. Use hcg post cycle only.

[InternalFire]

Problem is. There is a guy. Dr Scully. Who has red and written more books than all of us together on the subject.
Has a deep understanding on how the body works. Knew more about the HPTA than Austinite, marcus and all their families together when he was 23 years. Has helped thousands of low testo guys with ruined hpta due to aasuse.
Well, that guy says for sure. Use hcg post cycle only.

Are you a post-whore?
Whats the goal/purpose behind your post?

[numbere]

Problem is. There is a guy. Dr Scully. Who has red and written more books than all of us together on the subject.
Has a deep understanding on how the body works. Knew more about the HPTA than Austinite, marcus and all their families together when he was 23 years. Has helped thousands of low testo guys with ruined hpta due to aasuse.
Well, that guy says for sure. Use hcg post cycle only.

Not to bash you but Dr Scully is a fictional character from the drama series The X-Files.

The person you're referencing is Dr Michael Scally, and it's actually Mr Scally now because he was medically disbarred.

Mr Scally's views on hcg are mostly outdated, for a more updated approach to using hcg read some of Dr John Crisler's work.

An update to the Crisler HCG protocol

[InternalFire]

Not to bash you but Dr Scully is a fictional character from the drama series The X-Files.

The person you're referencing is Dr Michael Scally, and it's actually Mr Scally now because he was medically disbarred.

Mr Scally's work is outdated, for a more updated approach to using hcg read some of John Crisler's work.

An update to the Crisler HCG protocol

you just nailed it,

I couldnt put my mind together enough for a waste of time and effort that would occur to argue with him regards this topic... threw in a towel on this

But he may never get talking on the same note because with knowledge up to date as there are many more "experienced gurus" on youtube like Piano guy, "more than on this forum"

Sil is "on the top of his game"

[numbere]

you just nailed it,

I couldnt put my mind together enough for a waste of time and effort that would occur to argue with him regards this topic... threw in a towel on this

But he may never get talking on the same note because with knowledge up to date as there are many more "experienced gurus" on youtube like Piano guy, "more than on this forum"

Sil is "on the top of his game"

I've grown to like Sil.

He's like the brother in law who disagrees with you on everything, but at the end of the day he's a actually a nice guy who means well.

If we agreed on everything in this forum, and there was no drama, than this would be a dull place.

[InternalFire]

I've grown to like Sil.

He's like the brother in law who disagrees with you on everything, but at the end of the day he's a actually a nice guy who means well.

If we agreed on everything in this forum, and there was no drama, than this would be a dull place.

you've got the point there.

Maybe one day I become as tolerant as you, but not today

[AR's King Silabolin]

Not to bash you but Dr Scully is a fictional character from the drama series The X-Files.

The person you're referencing is Dr Michael Scally, and it's actually Mr Scally now because he was medically disbarred.

Mr Scally's views on hcg are mostly outdated, for a more updated approach to using hcg read some of Dr John Crisler's work.

An update to the Crisler HCG protocol

I deserved that one...scully lol...no excuses but i was so teardropping sad when i saw levrone, the big hero from the 90s.
Scally outdated?..hm..guess i have to read up

[AR's King Silabolin]

I've grown to like Sil.

He's like the brother in law who disagrees with you on everything, but at the end of the day he's a actually a nice guy who means well.

If we agreed on everything in this forum, and there was no drama, than this would be a dull place.

wow...blush...got that one insane?....you stil fail to read beetween the lines my friend

[numbere]

I deserved that one...scully lol...no excuses but i was so teardropping sad when i saw levrone, the big hero from the 90s.
Scally outdated?..hm..guess i have to read up

Whether there our parents or BBs it's difficult watching the people that we've looked up to our whole lives age.

Still I'll be happy looking half as good as Kev when I'm in my 50s.

[InternalFire]

wow...blush...got that one insane?....you stil fail to read beetween the lines my friend

you just make me feel so much better about myself with every post you make, read between the lines this.

[AR's King Silabolin]

you just make me feel so much better about myself with every post you make, read between the lines this.

Stil u got one problem there. More and more of the top dogs are starting to like me. BB (always), now numbere, Nach, Marcus (always)...soon BG i guess also...so, you migth lose some standings if you dont start worshipping me soon...just saying. Friendly advice.
Maybe they kick u out of the HIT you know....

[Chicagotarsier]

you've got the point there.

Maybe one day I become as tolerant as you, but not today

Classic

[InternalFire]

Stil u got one problem there. More and more of the top dogs are starting to like me. BB (always), now numbere, Nach, Marcus (always)...soon BG i guess also...so, you migth lose some standings if you dont start worshipping me soon...just saying. Friendly advice.
Maybe they kick u out of the HIT you know....

worship my ass, I will never speak between the lines to you, I come out to you as I am and as I think, and when if I think you're or anyone is a prick - you be sure I will tell you or anyone so
And if you feel I will loose some "standing" on this forum...? Well, I feel sorry for you as I dont see that as a problem, I enjoy this crowd of people here and the only think I cant tolerate is arsery like you spit out, but hey I dont mind, we also need clowns like you, world wont be as entertaining without you, so because in your little world your'e the clown and the king of your own imaginary kingdom (the castle) , I feel glad and sad for you at the same time, whatever floats your boat sila.

If you want to take it up on a another level with me - DONT BE A PUSSY AND LETS TALK OVER PM, OTHERWISE JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP, you waste too much of your mouth praising your standings. reputation and in general acting like big baby, cherry-picking "from between the lines" what suits you best and use it as your ground fuck that

[AR's King Silabolin]

If you want to take it up on a another level with me - DONT BE A PUSSY AND LETS TALK OVER PM, PLEASE, I REALLY WANT TO CHAT WITH YOU, I HAVE SKYPE ALSO...OTHERWISE JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP, you waste too much of your mouth praising your standings. reputation and in general acting like big baby,

will u stop begging me for a private session...goddamit...3 rd time now dude. NO!...i wont private u. I private a couple of new female members. Thats all.

Grow up!

[InternalFire]

will u stop begging me for a private session...goddamit...3 rd time now dude. NO!...i wont private u. I private a couple of new female members. Thats all.

Grow up!

You are an attention-seeking-post-whore , and your'e having severe attitude issues, hence I want to take it up another level and be done with it for once, keeping arguments between you and me private, not humiliating you against the public because I dont need even try, you keep coming out as a little fat fuck, you back off and runaway like a little girl. Its sad, but youre really not whole in your head, SARM's and Piano teachings did its own thing to you. retardry at the highest level

[AR's King Silabolin]

Yo other members: Please forgive him. I really dont mind. He is just a....well...its ok. I dont want you to bash him. He dont understand, its ok with me. Yeah i know, he is using words on me, but thats ok. Its his game. He dont know any better.
I also have been bullying a bit you know. Making fun of his title. And that he propably is the ligthest (170 pounds) "beast" on the earth. Oups..sorry, now im at it again.
No, really, just for the argument. He is ok, be gentle with him. Promise me that. He means good. I know.
If you go to his musclelog and make a positive comment, i will be glad!

[numbere]

Okay this BS has gotten out of hand.

If you two want to have a pissing match that's cool.

However, myself and everyone else on this forum would really appreciate it if you'd keep it in Silabolin's thread in the lounge.

Derailing other members threads is very rude and needs to stop.

[InternalFire]

I try to take it up in PM with him, but...