Bro Limbo

[Macros]

I need some advice. Ive been training for 10 years. I'm 30yo 5'9" 170 lbs around 16% bf. I did my first cycle (the recommended first cycle - test only) which I finished in December and I'm not sure what to do now. Here's my problem...every year I put 10 pounds on in the fall/winter but along with some good games comes an increase in body fat. I then diet in the spring/summer and lose the 10 pounds but hate how my body composition looks at the end of my "cut". Basically I can't seem to hold on to muscle when I cut and I really don't lose too much body fat. I usually only get down to 12-13% body fat and I can barely see my abs.

I am about to start my cut and was wondering If running a test only cycle while I cut would help retail lean muscle mass?

Since this would be my second cycle, would you suggest adding any other compound or oral in?

[DocToxin8]

Will test help you retain muscle mass?

Absolutely it will. However....
One thing you need to factor in here,
(While I can't prove this, it's what I believe)
That the more cycles you do, the more likely you are to fuck up your HPTA.

So, if you think about it like this;
I have x amount of cycles I can do before more and more sides are gonna happen, TRT being one. Is cycles for cutting something you find is needed?

How bout trying to stay lean and bulk clean as well.
And keep your BF down all the time, sometimes more than others,
but always within range of visible abs, at least a 4 pack?

I mean, doing one cycle a year should be pretty safe.
But when time off is time on, and then eventually perhaps time on is 2x time off, you see where I'm headed with this?

IMO if safe is the name of the game, then if the 52 weeks in a year,
but 20 weeks are on, 4-6 weeks are with declining yet supressive levels,
then one can go about trying to optimize use a lot of ways

Maybe use 20 weeks on, 2 weeks with declining supressive levels.
How: start with 100mg prop along with the TE, stop the TE at week 8, TP week 8-10. Then you got 1 week with supressive levels even with SERMs.
Then PCT for 4-6 weeks. (I'm not sure how PCT effects the HPTA in the long term)
Other ways: run shorter than 10 week cycles.

As for other compounds. Yes. Some are better for cutting, yet I'd say all can be used while cutting, at least the degree of cut non competitors want.

[Macros]

Great reply DocToxin thank you. I agree with you that there is a fine line between doing more harm than good. I waited until age 30 to run my first cycle and I only plan to do one, maybe two each year. I've studied nutrition and training over the years and have gained good knowledge but I'm struggling to get the visible abs you mentioned (which I know is 10%bf or less). Whenever I lower calories/carbs to "cut" I lose a good amount of muscle mass and still don't have the abs to show for it. I naturally do have lower test levels for my age and I think it's due to bad hormonal environment. I'm interested in the test p/test e plan you mentioned.

What doses of each would I take? I know you said 100mg test p, how much test e?

My one buddy swears by EQ and he is a successful bodybuilder. Would that be a good second compound or do you suggest anything else?

Thanks!

[Strongblood]

Did you not gain much muscle from your first cycle? Test only first cycles usually yield some pretty dramatic results. If the diet is good, and your work outs are solid.

[DocToxin8]

The approach I mentioned was simply to use short esters at beginning and end of a cycle (most important at the end, as long esters are released quickly but stay for a long time).
100mg test prop was just an example.
It would depend on what dosage you think is correct for your cycle.

If you did a standard 500mg TE cycle, maybe include 200mg TP the 1 week to get a flying start (this does come with its own risks though, like increased e2 levels), then finish the last 2 weeks with 400 (or even 500mg) TP a week.
(No need to reduce dosage as % of ester weight IMO)

The point is simply to let levels fall back to non supressive very shortly after you quit your cycle.

An old "classic" cycle design was to use test at the beginning and end with 4-6 weeks (usually as part of a 12 week cycle) with winstrol.
Not only because Winstol would leave the system quickly (back then we didn't really think about that, and used injectable winstrol), but because the hardness from winny at the end would "consolidate the gains".
That's a real old school approach and i would revice it somewhat.
(F.ex don't let test levels fall too much, so don't quit using T when adding in the winstrol, though you can reduce the dose)

F.ex you could swap winstrol with any mass & hardening drug,
and I would use tablets not injectable at the end of a cycle,
as winstrol depot lingers in the system longer than most think.

I don't know if there's any merit to the "consolidate the gains" theory,
but adding in a c17aa at the end of a cycle to increase strength and hardness makes sense as something I'd like to do regardless.

[Macros]

Strongblood thanks for the reply. I gained 8-10 lbs during my first TE cycle. I gained strength as well. All major lifts went up and I met one of my goals to go from benching 225 4x to 10x. i was eating 200-400 cals above maintenance on gym days and at or slightly below maintenance on off days (1-2) off days/week. So with that diet plan I thought I would be able to lean bulk/almost recomp but I gained a little body fat. It's been 2 months since my cycle and my body composition has gotten much worse. I am gaining noticeable fat about my lower back and love handles. So I'm trying to put the right plan together for the spring.

DocToxin thank you for the reply. I might sound a little dense but when you say you would jump start your cycle with TP do you mean take TP only? Or take alongside TE?
If I take 500 TE week 1 of cycle wouldn't taking an additional 200 TP be a huge dose of test? If I took that much test should I bump my Anastrozole up from 0.25 to 1mg EOD?

I'm interested in taking winstrol one day but I'm 30yo right now and I'm doings everything I can to keep my hair. In a few years I'll just say F it and shave my head but for now I'm on Finasteride 1mg EOD. Can you take winstrol on fin since winny is dht based?