Winstrol use

[Whythe]

I've been using winstrol (British Dragon Stanabol) for around 2 weeks now.
My aim is to be leaner, faster and more athletic.

Lately I feel as if training is very hard. I understand the water reduction can cause sore joints and this is the case. But muscles/ligaments feel very tight. I feel very heavy and running is a nightmare.

I'm using 3 x 10mg daily, plenty fish oil and a test boost supplement.

Any ideas as to what I can do to get running quicker, longer and feel lighter would be great.

[HoldMyBeer]

I've been using winstrol (British Dragon Stanabol) for around 2 weeks now.
My aim is to be leaner, faster and more athletic.

Lately I feel as if training is very hard. I understand the water reduction can cause sore joints and this is the case. But muscles/ligaments feel very tight. I feel very heavy and running is a nightmare.

I'm using 3 x 10mg daily, plenty fish oil and a test boost supplement.

Any ideas as to what I can do to get running quicker, longer and feel lighter would be great.

Have you been using anything w the winstrol?

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[Whythe]

Just the standard food sups I've listed. No other steroid

[charger69]

I've been using winstrol (British Dragon Stanabol) for around 2 weeks now.
My aim is to be leaner, faster and more athletic.

Lately I feel as if training is very hard. I understand the water reduction can cause sore joints and this is the case. But muscles/ligaments feel very tight. I feel very heavy and running is a nightmare.

I'm using 3 x 10mg daily, plenty fish oil and a test boost supplement.

Any ideas as to what I can do to get running quicker, longer and feel lighter would be great.

This is difficult to answer. Have you checked your hematocrit? High hematocrit ( thick blood) can cause you to lose your respiratory stamina. If this is the case, if you give blood, you should go back to normal.
If it is just the ligaments, you can try glucosamine with chondroitin. That has always helped me.
Some people add nandrolone (deca/NPP) in small doses to help.
In regards to the test booster- you are definitely wasting your money two fold- first of all, they do not work. I actually did blood tests with no test difference.
Second- you are taking AAS which has shut down your natural test production. Test boosters cannot boost anything because there is nothing there to boost- it is shut down.
I would hope that you are taking test along with the Winnie.
I also wrote this assuming that the condition you are referring to is new and you were not previously like this.


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[HoldMyBeer]

Just the standard food sups I've listed. No other steroid

If you're not using test w it, you're shutting down your natural production, and you will feel tired and shitty

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[GearHeaded]

If you're not using test w it, you're shutting down your natural production, and you will feel tired and shitty

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its that simple.
you should be running test with your winny. if you were gong to be running an oral only cycle with no test base, then there are other steps you'd of needed to be doing (which your clearly not).

also, keep in mind that Winstrol will block Coritisol production in the body. which is a good thing for staying anabolic, but cortisol is your body's natural anti-inflammatory that helps keep joints, tendons, etc.. feeling healthy. the achy joints is NOT simply because of being 'dry', its the lack of Cortisol

[jaredaero]

I feel ya! When i ran a winstrol cycle, my elbows would hurt with heavy weight. I added deca durbolin with my stack. I would suggest npp for more immediate results. It worked for me.

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[GearHeaded]

I feel ya! When i ran a winstrol cycle, my elbows would hurt with heavy weight. I added deca durbolin with my stack. I would suggest npp for more immediate results. It worked for me.

nandrolone works pretty good at promoting synovial fluid retention in the joints and also having some anti-inflammatory properties.
BUT keep in mind the OP is obviously not on TRT and does not blast and cruise. the deca/npp is going to cause a great deal of suppression of natty test, to the point of which he may not recover from (ever). yes deca can be that suppressive to the hpta.

[Whythe]

Thanks for all your help everyone. I not taking a test or Decca but have access to both Decca and test prop. I'm new to this and this is my first cycle of anything. Thought I researched well, clearly not!

I wanted to avoid large mass and wanted more of a cut athletic look and ability.

[charger69]

Thanks for all your help everyone. I not taking a test or Decca but have access to both Decca and test prop. I'm new to this and this is my first cycle of anything. Thought I researched well, clearly not!

I wanted to avoid large mass and wanted more of a cut athletic look and ability.

I know this isn’t what your looking for.... but diet is the key. Any AAS can be used for cutting or bulking- your diet decides this. Granted some AAS is better for one than the other.
First cycle test only IMO. Your cycle should include PCT also. In other words have everything before you start.


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[redz]

You should stop this cycle and do more research.

[charger69]

nandrolone works pretty good at promoting synovial fluid retention in the joints and also having some anti-inflammatory properties.
BUT keep in mind the OP is obviously not on TRT and does not blast and cruise. the deca/npp is going to cause a great deal of suppression of natty test, to the point of which he may not recover from (ever). yes deca can be that suppressive to the hpta.

I guess I am confused. Even if just on a Winnie cycle, his test production is surpressed . I do not understand the comment on the deca.

Corrected auto corrector- LOL

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[GearHeaded]

I guess I am confused. Even if just on a Winnie cycle, his test production is surpressed . I do not understand the comment on the deca.

suppression is not 100% binary . that means its NOT like a light switch , either 100% on, or 100% off. there are stages of HPTA shutdown.

when taking something like VAR or Winny (dependent on dose) the suppression is minimal (compared to other drugs). so lets assume 20mg of Winny per day. suppression may be at 40%. he is still producing natural test, but in very small amounts, and the amounts are small enough that estrogen and Dht conversion also go down (thus he will feel very suppressed). but he is not totally shut down. he is still producing natty test.

NOW lets say he takes 500mg of test and 500mg of Deca. his suppression will likely be near 100%. this is because the HPTA gets hit from many different angles. he is shut down from not just taking exogenous androgens, but he is also shut down from the high estrogen conversion from the test, and he is also shut down from the progestin properties of Deca (prolactin/pregestin shuts down hpta the hardest).

make sense ?

the whole idea that a new user after one shot of testosterone is shut down is forum urban legend. shut down does not work that way. its progressive over time depending on many factors. in fact a guy on his first cycle of test is likely, when injecting test, adding onto his natural test production as well for several weeks or more, until estrogen and other things are elevated and further suppression sets in.
its NOT like your body magically feels an injection of steroids and then suddenly shuts down natty test production.


thats also why there are ways to run oral only cycles, especially with DHT based compounds like VAR and Winny and not have to run exogenous test or do much of a PCT. because shut down is minimal compared to other cycles.
having said that,, running exogenous test and doing a real pct are of course optimal

[GearHeaded]

example of an oral only cycle
50mg Var day
50mg Proviron day
750iu hcg per week
100mg Clomid towards the end

your not needing a traditional PCT after the cycle. your producing enough natural test and 'free test' (with the proviron) that you will function fairly well for the 6 or so weeks this cycle will last.

again, NOT optimal compared to running test with the cycle and doing a solid PCT , but non the less still an option for guys

[charger69]

suppression is not 100% binary . that means its NOT like a light switch , either 100% on, or 100% off. there are stages of HPTA shutdown.

when taking something like VAR or Winny (dependent on dose) the suppression is minimal (compared to other drugs). so lets assume 20mg of Winny per day. suppression may be at 40%. he is still producing natural test, but in very small amounts, and the amounts are small enough that estrogen and Dht conversion also go down (thus he will feel very suppressed). but he is not totally shut down. he is still producing natty test.

NOW lets say he takes 500mg of test and 500mg of Deca. his suppression will likely be near 100%. this is because the HPTA gets hit from many different angles. he is shut down from not just taking exogenous androgens, but he is also shut down from the high estrogen conversion from the test, and he is also shut down from the progestin properties of Deca (prolactin/pregestin shuts down hpta the hardest).

make sense ?

the whole idea that a new user after one shot of testosterone is shut down is forum urban legend. shut down does not work that way. its progressive over time depending on many factors. in fact a guy on his first cycle of test is likely, when injecting test, adding onto his natural test production as well for several weeks or more, until estrogen and other things are elevated and further suppression sets in.
its NOT like your body magically feels an injection of steroids and then suddenly shuts down natty test production.


thats also why there are ways to run oral only cycles, especially with DHT based compounds like VAR and Winny and not have to run exogenous test or do much of a PCT. because shut down is minimal compared to other cycles.
having said that,, running exogenous test and doing a real pct are of course optimal

Interesting. There was a write up about 2 years ago where they were contending that it was binary....: or that is what I understood.
Do you have any references off the top of your head? I will look so if you don’t have it on the top of your head, I will find it.
Based on this, a new dimension is added.

Now that I think about it, you may be low, but your test never goes to 0 so something is producing it.

Actually, if on TRT, you should be producing a little so that is why a lot of DR’s don’t use hCG?


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[GearHeaded]

Interesting. There was a write up about 2 years ago where they were contending that it was binary....: or that is what I understood.

the part that is 'binary' is perhaps the mechanism of action (meaning the pituitary is or is not producing .. it doesn't 'modulate' per se. its on or off).
but what I'm talking about is HPTA shut down as a whole system. its not totally shut down the minute you take steroids. its dependent on lots of different factors.

Do you have any references off the top of your head? I will look so if you don’t have it on the top of your head, I will find it.
Based on this, a new dimension is added.

Now that I think about it, you may be low, but your test never goes to 0 so something is producing it.

Actually, if on TRT, you should be producing a little so that is why a lot of DR’s don’t use hCG?

as for references. well off the top of my 'desk' , Willian Llewellyns 700 page book on Anabolics is a good one to start with.. it talks about which steroids are more suppressive to the HPTA then other steroids at least.

again there are many factors as to why one steroid is more suppressive then another steroid .

example - Dbol is more suppressive then VAR . why ? because Dbol strongly converts to estrogen, VAR does not at all. And estrogen is highly suppressive (its what the hpta looks for when deciding to produce test or not , if estrogen is high then it will not produce).
^ part of the aspect as to why anti estrogen drugs are pct drugs